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it boggles the mind

Bill Dog (726542) writes | about 3 months ago

User Journal 33

So tonight around 12:30 am, and I'm sitting downstairs watching TV. It's hot right now, so I had the windows closed and the central A/C on. Set to 76, so it hadn't run in a while.

My "living room" (it's an open concept downstairs in my townhome condo, so it's really just one big room) part is right by the front door, and I have my ceiling fan on at its highest speed during the hot months.

So tonight around 12:30 am, and I'm sitting downstairs watching TV. It's hot right now, so I had the windows closed and the central A/C on. Set to 76, so it hadn't run in a while.

My "living room" (it's an open concept downstairs in my townhome condo, so it's really just one big room) part is right by the front door, and I have my ceiling fan on at its highest speed during the hot months.

So the vertical blinds are flapping away in the window by the front door, and my TV is on this end, facing towards the front door, so at my doorstep you can hear that it's on.

And my recliner is 12-18 inches from the door handle. At about ear level where I'm sitting.

So I'm sitting there, and plain as day, someone tries the door handle. Now the setup here is that the door handle turns freely (although outside there's nothing to turn, you grab the handle and depress the latch with your thumb), but there's a deadbolt above it, keyed on the outside and with a switch on the inside, and that's what locks the door.

So whoever it was, clearly could tell that someone was home, up/awake, and most likely downstairs, given the blinds were flapping and the TV was semi-blaring (I play it a little loud, having lost some hearing or quality of from too much loud heavy metal with headphones, such that sometimes I have a little trouble making out what someone said).

And unless the person's watched me for a while and knew I was single and lived alone, would think potentially there was another person in the house, because I left the light on in my 2nd bedroom upstairs. (It's a CFL, and those I like to not cycle too much, and just leave on if I plan to come back into the room in a little while.)

And yet this person tried to come into my house. Now I've got 3 other doors around me, to my neighbors' places, but I can hear when they come and go from my recliner, because one door is right next to mine and the other two are in the next building just a skinny walkway's width away (we're packed in pretty good here).

Now I've heard reports of prowlers coming into peoples' homes when they're asleep at night, through an open or unlocked window. But this person had evidence to the contrary that the folk(s) who live here had gone to bed.

Which brings to mind the question, what if I hadn't had the top latched. What was this person prepared to say or do upon entry into my house, to the person(s) downstairs they would expect to encounter.

This person did not ring my doorbell nor knock on the door. I can't hear doorbells of my neighbors', but I can hear knocks on their doors, and their weren't any, so it wasn't some lost person in need of some kind of assistance.

The last neighbor who left their light on all the time for our walkway moved out recently, and my outside light on the light-sensitive controller broke a few years ago, so it's been completely dark out there, unfortunately. Apparently I should get that fixed and be the one who leaves that switch on all the time.

And maybe it's time to think about getting my first firearm. (And some lessons some where, having only ever shot a BB gun before.) I live in a nice neighborhood, but maybe that makes us a target.

And since I'm a heavy sleeper, maybe even getting an alarm system. Although I think those only detect a window opening, and not breaking.

Which leads to the other question that had come to mind about this person of the night. S/he was evidently prepared to confront this residence's awake occupants, so why not break a window to get in. The only thing I can think of is that the person wanted the element of surprise, and quietly slipping in through a mistakenly unlocked door would enable that, that a shattering window would not.

And yet occupants could come from other parts of the place, potentially with guns, so even if surprise was had on a downstairs occupant, it still potentially could've gone very badly for the presumably would-be intruder.

Oh, and no one tried the keyhole on the deadbolt, so it wasn't a neighbor who was just coming home drunk or something and walked down the wrong walkway, in this row of buildings.

And so I'll close with the ultimate question that came to mind: Why does really weird shit, happen to me. And no it wasn't a dream/I wasn't asleep, I'm a night owl kind of person, and had slept in until about noon-thirty today. I was watching stupid Friends reruns, after coming downstairs to catch Stossel's "Security and Liberty" special from 10-11. (Who's a whole topic unto himself.)

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Wrong door? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 3 months ago | (#47542197)

The simplest explanation is that the person thought they were somewhere else.

Re:Wrong door? (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47547029)

Then they would've first stuck their key in the deadbolt lock part above the door handle, to unlock the door first before squeezing the handle. Like I do when I don't park in my garage and hence come in this door. But they didn't.

And if they were expecting it to be their place and left unlocked, they would've squeezed the handle and pushed into the door to open it. LIke I do after just dragging my trash cans down to the front of the building. But they didn't do that either.

It was just a careful squeeze of the handle, so I only heard the slight creak of that mechanism, and didn't hear what I presume was the gentle push to see if the deadbolt had been left unlocked.

And I lied; my head is more like 18-24 inches from that door handle. But still at ear level where I sit. And if that mechanism wasn't oldish and creaky, I might not have heard it at all.

I haven't been the victim of any major crimes, just a few extremely weird incidences (like coming out to my car after work one day and finding someone trying to get into it, who claimed to mistake it for his own), so I don't consider it, but I should.

Re:Wrong door? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 3 months ago | (#47547861)

You assume the person on the other side was sober.

Re:Wrong door? (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47563167)

But drunks aren't typically careful to be quiet. A merely disoriented person probably would've given it a few tries, in confusion.

Re:Wrong door? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 3 months ago | (#47564349)

Ever seen a drunk driver going REALLY slow?

Re:Wrong door? (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47587315)

Sure, cuz they want to get home in one piece. But I've never seen a drunk step carefully once they're out of their car. Because it's primitively understood that falling down is generally vastly less dangerous than getting in a car wreck.

In the dark, a drunk would've tripped on the single step up to my stoop.

A pump action BB Gun (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 3 months ago | (#47544539)

"And maybe it's time to think about getting my first firearm. (And some lessons some where, having only ever shot a BB gun before.) I live in a nice neighborhood, but maybe that makes us a target."

A pump action BB Gun makes the same Ker-Chunk as a 12 gauge; the sound alone can make a burglar who knows what it is run. 12 pumps, and you have the equivalent of rock salt load in a 12 gauge.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47547099)

I should probably get the real thing, just in case. What's extra bothersome about this is that the intruder could not be expecting to be a mere burglar in this case, but instead must've been okay with being a robber.

Home invasion robberies (by two or three perps) in my larger region have been in the news, and women sleeping with a window open have gotten raped (by lone pervs).

I've never been robbed or assaulted in 48 years of life so far, but I might not always be so lucky, and should think about that. I've thought about getting a shotgun, and holding my ground upstairs (assuming I'm awake) and being prepared to blast someone for coming up the stairwell after being warned. It would be firing towards my own garage and not into any of my neighbors' directions.

But there's other complications, I hear, in Soviet California, and it would be taking up and keeping up a new hobby. And it kind of sucks when bad people cause you to make demands on your own time, on account of them.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 3 months ago | (#47547303)

If you get the real thing, get rock salt load. Stings like the dickens- has a usually non lethal but the stopping power of a .45 unless the guy's on meth or angel dust and then you ain't going to stop him without a submachine gun anyway. There's a reason why ranchers trust a rock salt load to get rid of the occasional wolf. Plus- it won't penetrate walls.

BTW, with any pump action shotgun (even a BB one) their only warning should be "Ker Chunk". Everybody knows that sound, and they know what comes next is pain.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 3 months ago | (#47547421)

FWIW my general weapon of choice - for home defense - is a baseball bat:
  • It never misfires
  • It never jams
  • It never runs out of ammo
  • It's silent
  • You don't need any special permits to buy or own them
  • You already know how to use them

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47563255)

I was also thinking about getting a baseball bat for behind the front door. But I think you have to be above average in size, really, to look enough like you mean it with one. And I'm not. (I would need something more like this [swordsandarmor.com] !)

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 3 months ago | (#47569309)

But I think you have to be above average in size, really, to look enough like you mean it with one

That is a possibility. I happen to be several inches above average in height myself; while I don't have enough mass to scare people just by size if I am holding something that could hurt I expect people will take notice (unless I'm being robbed by an exceptionally tall person*).

(I would need something more like this!)

Might be worth a try, as long as they don't think it's some kind of cosplay or BDSM toy.

*I don't have an explanation for why, but exceptionally tall people don't seem to partake in much criminal activity - at least according to the crime reports I read. The vast overwhelming majority of crime reports I see report suspects in the 5'7" - 6' range in height. Granted, that is where most of the population is height-wise in this area, but if criminal activity was distributed proportionally by height I should have seen some dwarves and some giants commit some acts by now but I haven't seen any yet. I don't know if it is that people outside the mid quartile in height distribution are aware that they are easier to pick out of a line-up, or if witnesses just aren't particularly good at describing height, or something else is at play here.

Either way I do see my height as being advantageous if I should need to attempt to defend myself or my family with a bat at home. If I were short I would likely consider a different approach.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47569961)

Either way I do see my height as being advantageous if I should need to attempt to defend myself or my family with a bat at home.

You are rolling the dice with your life unnecessarily with that plan. If an armed assailant breaks in, that bat -- even if it's a bad ass double walled DeMarini -- is no match for any kind of firearm, and you'd be taking the proverbial knife to a gunfight. You've got to watch out for yourself and your family.

Also, the latest trend in criminal activity is to bring a buddy or two -- I don't care how tall you are, even with a bat you're not going to be capable to defend yourself against two (or more) unarmed assailants, let alone armed ones.

For home defense, in my opinion the best defense is a pump-action shotgun -- specifically a 12 gauge. A 20 gauge may get the job done as well if you're worried about the recoil, but if you're holding it correctly the recoil should not bother you much. As an added benefit, the sound of that 12 gauge getting cocked may be enough to deter a criminal, but if it isn't, you're going to need the stopping power of a shotgun.

A 00 Buckshot shell has 8 pellets, and each pellet is roughly the size of a 9mm bullet. If you hit center mass, it'll be like the assailant taking 8 shots from a 9mm almost all at once (the pellets are loaded into the shell in 4 groups of 2, and exit the barrel thusly). Needless to say, it's devastating to a human body.

Take ownership of your own self-defense -- 911 doesn't respond fast enough.

Hopefully, you'll never need to use a gun to do more than put holes in paper (or water jugs, or watermelon, or even a tasty deer or warthog), but -- it will always be better to have a gun and never need it than need a gun once and not have it.

Unfortunately, I've been in a position where I needed my gun, and I thank God I didn't have to fire it, that the sight of it was enough to deter any future stupidity from the assailant.

If you want to talk self-defense any further, just ask. This is something I'm very passionate about and something I advocate every person do -- be prepared to defend themselves.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 3 months ago | (#47571919)

Either way I do see my height as being advantageous if I should need to attempt to defend myself or my family with a bat at home.

You are rolling the dice with your life unnecessarily with that plan.

You're rolling the dice regardless. It matters not whether your plan is a phone, a bat, a gun, or something else entirely. Guns are not 100% effective; even if you regularly practice with your gun it can still jam or misfire. You just have to decide which level of risk is acceptable to you. I personally find a bat to be an acceptable trade off as the likelihood of it accidentally killing an innocent person in my home is quite nearly zero. You might apply a different calculus to the matter.

Also, the latest trend in criminal activity is to bring a buddy or two

There have been bands of criminals working together in the past as well. Even in the city closest to my home they are even more exceedingly rare than armed individuals breaking into homes - and the town where I live hasn't even had an unarmed robbery in a very very long time.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47582275)

Guns are not 100% effective; even if you regularly practice with your gun it can still jam or misfire.

The probability of a gun misfiring when well maintained and lubricated is very, very small. Occasionally, you'll get a dud round, but if you're buying quality, factory made ammo (Hornady, Federal, Remington, PMC, etc) the probability again is extremely low. Revolvers can misfire if it's a dud round, but revolvers can not jam. Double barreled shotguns can not jam. Pump action shotguns and Semi-Auto hand guns can jam (again, very, very, very rare if using quality ammo and the gun is clean, because if it's going to jam it'll jam after you've pulled the trigger and the next round gets caught...), but part of the practice is clearing jams quickly (hint: re-rack the slide -- hard, you won't break it. Beat it like it owes you money. The next round in the magazine will load.) You have to know your tool to use it effectively.

So what's quality ammo? Hornday, Remington, Federal, Winchester, PMC -- just stay away from the cheap, steel cased (always go for a brass casing) and in the case of a handgun, use a self defense round -- Hornady Critical Duty, Remington Golden Sabers, even Federal Hydra-shoks are an effective round. For self defense, I do not recommend full metal jacket round. FMJ's are for target practice and training at the range.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47587269)

This'll make RG cringe, but it occurred to me that I'm not looking for "stopping power" (as in putting the guy down) in a firearm and load, I'm looking for "repelling power". Because, as I said, I don't want to kill or seriously harm anyone. I want him to run off, not bleed out in my living room.

It seems like if someone wants to kill me, they can just jump me as I come out of my house, or follow me to work and jump me there, or to the grocery store and gun me down in the parking lot. I'm not worried about people wanting to come into my house to kill me, and who are willing to risk their own lives to do so. There's easier ways. And I'm not going to get into a shoot-out in my home, nor am I going to try to flush them out if they lie in wait somewhere downstairs.

I can't do anything about my vulnerability to someone wanting to kill me, so I'm not trying. I just want to be able to get an intruder to leave my home immediately. So I'd favor something typically non-lethal, especially considering in California they like to charge people with crimes for defending themselves and their homes/businesses, so it would be a plus if I had the legal standing of using something that didn't qualify as "deadly force".

But unfortunately the less the lethality of a load choice, the more that reloadability comes into play. For me it would be a balance of potentially killing or maiming, versus having to only say it once. And I think I would weight it in favor of the latter. I.e. I don't want to have to reload in a panic situation, so it's got to be a strong enough single response, to dissuade those even high on something, but should be no stronger. Or as close as I can get to this, I think.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47600601)

It's not going to make me cringe, because that's the same thought process that led to me getting a shotgun in the first place.

Like I said -- I've been told by a police officer that 95% of the time, the sound of a shotgun getting cocked is enough, that if someone is in your home, they'll run.

The other 5% of the time, you'll want the stopping power of the boomstick.

I, too, hope I never use any of my guns other than to shoot holes in paper (or fruit, or bottles, or tasty animals I intend to eat). While I have had to draw my handgun, the sight of it was enough to stop my assailant, and I did not have to point it at him nor did I have to pull the trigger.

Re:A pump action BB Gun (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 3 months ago | (#47603255)

What RG said, but I'll add this:
In a panic situation, you want something kind of like the Israeli DIME warheads they have on Iron Dome- enough to do some damage, spread out fast so that you don't have to aim too terribly accurately. Add to that your wish to stay relatively non-lethal- and do the job on the first shot- and a shotgun shell with rock salt load is a great bet. 95% will run away without you even having to fire- Ker-chunk and they're gone as fast as you can chamber the load. Another 4%, when the rock salt penetrates their clothing and digs into their skin, will flee in pain.

The other 1%, probably wouldn't even be stopped by a .45 slug dead to the heart; because they'll be so high on drugs you could kill them without them noticing that they're dead.

The sad part is, that last category is also the most likely "accidental" home intruder, the type that breaks in, eats your food, and you find asleep in your bed.

Grab 'n dash (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 3 months ago | (#47546603)

This is a not-terribly-uncommon strategy for some thieves. They look for doors that they don't have to do anything special to enter through, grab the first thing of value they see, and run as fast as they can. Happens far too often at universities as well; thieve enter in broad daylight, grab a laptop, and run as quick as possible (generally to the closest pawn shop). It's the equivalent of opening someone's shed and grabbing their lawnmower to sell for a quick buck.

You could buy a firearm to defend your stuff, but it seems like your door lock did its job fairly well here, didn't it?

Re:Grab 'n dash (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47547179)

(Took a chance seeing who's post this third one was, hoping that since mine wasn't a political JE it might not be toxic.)

As I had been wondering that if this person was trying to get in, why not really try and get in, so thanks for posting this as a possible explanation. Still uncomfortably brazen of this person. I'll always be locking it now even if just stepping out to another side of the building for a minute. I suppose with the blinds flapping so wildly, this person could've looked in and saw the back of someone sitting in a recliner and could've decided to take the chance that I had fallen asleep and that maybe it was potentially a grab-and-go opportunity.

Re:Grab 'n dash (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 3 months ago | (#47547393)

(Took a chance seeing who's post this third one was, hoping that since mine wasn't a political JE it might not be toxic.)

I ask you to make fewer assumptions in the future based on the author's name alone.

As I had been wondering that if this person was trying to get in, why not really try and get in, so thanks for posting this as a possible explanation.

You're welcome. I have heard of it happening more than once at universities; in research labs, offices, libraries, even in dorms.

Still uncomfortably brazen of this person.

I agree. Some people are quite bold.

I suppose with the blinds flapping so wildly, this person could've looked in and saw the back of someone sitting in a recliner and could've decided to take the chance that I had fallen asleep and that maybe it was potentially a grab-and-go opportunity.

I can't speak for them or their motivations. Indeed they could have been after something else entirely or it could have been someone who thought they were at a different door. I will speculate though from what I have read of grab 'n dash crimes previously that they likely didn't think real hard on it; I'd be surprised if they even looked in the window. If they had heard your TV they may have even thought there were a number of people there (party) and that it would be that much easier to walk in, grab something, and walk back out.

I would say think pickpocket, not mugger / murderer.

And I would never defend property with a firearm

If you're near the door, and they come in and you shoot before you wait to see if they are armed, I would say you were defending your property more than your life. Now granted some would say that if you wait you are foolish, and gambling with your life or whatnot. Generally the pizza guy knocks, and people seeking help say so from the door (rather than coming through it first), but it could just be someone at the wrong door with no malicious intent.

Personally I would expect that if you just yelled at the person at the door - just a loud "HEY WHO (with or without expletive inserted here) ARE YOU" - they would probably turn tail and run without even pushing the door open.

Re:Grab 'n dash (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47563335)

> I ask you to make fewer assumptions in the future based on the author's name alone.

No, it's still overall a sound policy, it's just that you're so bonkers in politics, it's easy to forget that, as far as I can recall, you seem like a pretty normal guy when it comes to everything else.

> Now granted some would say that if you wait you are foolish, and gambling with your life or whatnot.

Luckily for me it's my life to gamble with. I'm perfectly satisfied with cowering upstairs with a shotgun while I'm being burgled out of my entire downstairs' possessions, if it means not risking killing someone.

Re:Grab 'n dash (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47547193)

p.s. And I would never defend property with a firearm. Even if I lived in a state that allowed it, which I'm almost sure of that I don't. I'd only risk an aggressor's life to defend my own. Because I really do want to be able to get through my whole life without killing or harming anyone. It just sucks that it's really the responsible thing to do to look into acquiring some means of deadly force, because of the remote but real threat of violence by uncivilized people.

Re:Grab 'n dash (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47549717)

Exodus 22:2

“If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.

You don't know why a person is in your house when they shouldn't be. You life is not worth risking to find out if it's a drug addict looking to swipe DVD's to pawn or the newest border jumping MS-13 member or terrorist there to cause you harm.

Don't risk it.

Maybe my perspective is different since I have a wife and kids, but if someone is in my house illegally, I can only assume that there is a grave threat against my family, and I will drop the bastard. Center mass.

Re:Grab 'n dash (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47563439)

Ouch, but this was back in the "eye for an eye" days. I would interpret that and it's immediately following "on the other hand" verse as, if you strike out at an intruder in the dark, you can't see well enough what you're swinging at to consciously avoid trying to kill the intruder. Nowadays we have implements of instant light. (Altho I suppose one could intentionally leave it dark so as to be able to exercise said loophole! ;)

But then there's the whole thing about the OT times being pre-JC, and all they had was the Law, until its ultimate fulfiller came. I kinda see the OT as trying to teach us (among other things) that God is resolutely about justice, and then the NT that God is also firmly about love. I see the lesson of the OT being over, and as followers of Christ we should be looking to forgive others as much as we can, and strive to turn the other cheek to the extent feasible.

But I don't doubt your perspective is highly motivated by your having a family, and can't rule out that mine might be different too if I wasn't only responsible for myself.

My $0.02... (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47549665)

And maybe it's time to think about getting my first firearm.

First off -- abandon any idea of using rock salt -- pissing off an intruder is only going to get you killed.

Since you'd be new to firearm ownership, let me give you my armchair opinion.

Get a pump action 12 gauge shotgun, and a bunch of 00 buckshot. Hornady makes a gimmicky "Zombie Max" 12 gauge shell, and while it's gimmicky, Hornady makes some damn good ammo (I carry the critical defense hollowpoints in my everyday carry gun, a Springfield XDS chambered in .45 ACP). Don't waste time with bird shot, rock salt, or any other "less lethal" method.

As far as brands -- Remington, Mossberg -- won't go wrong with either one of those.

Finally, buy a box of cheap #8 birdshot and head to a range. One common misconception of a shotgun is that you don't have to aim it, it's a "room broom" -- and that notion is complete horseshit. Yes, the shot will expand but that pattern, especially indoors, and with 8 pellets (00 buck) it's not going to expand that much as to preclude you from aiming it.

Now -- some armchair "experts" will tell you never to cock it as a warning. I disagree with this -- one of my best friends is an officer, and she told me that 95% of the time, cocking a shotgun is enough and you don't have to pull the trigger -- and the other 5% of the time, you're going to have to pull the trigger because the assailant is going to kill everyone in the house.

If you'd rather have a handgun -- get a Glock in .45 ACP, with the highest magazine capacity that your moonbat idiot leaders in Kaliforniastan will let you have. I have a Glock 21 in .45 ACP, and let me tell you -- it's a nail driver. Extremely accurate at the range, and I get a 3 inch grouping at 50 yards with it.

But whatever you get -- practice, practice, practice. And have fun. No such thing as a bad day at the range. Keep the gun clean and the ammo dry and it will last you for decades.

Re:My $0.02... (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47563575)

> ... 12 gauge shotgun ... .45 ACP ...

Ouch, I'm not 6' 200 lbs; meassumes the kick on those kinds of things would be a skosh jarring in my as-yet-un-powder-burned hands. Besides, even with practice I don't assume I could really hit anything whilst in freak-mode. But I've got a decent flight of stairs between two walls barely 3 feet wide, that I ought to be able to spray some pain down if need be across most of its width, I'm hoping.

So yeah, I figured I'd need to practice, so the tip on cheap ammo to do so with is appreciated. As long as that stuff has roughly the same "feel" when firing as the home defense load you mention.

For myself, I would probably never own a handgun, just because of that form factor's association with crime. Like (part of) the reason I gave up alcohol in my late twenties, with all the negative stuff associated with its use/abuse. Just a personal quirk of mine.

My sis and her hubby just bought a place out in the country, and I want to go build a berm on that land and do my practicing there. It's a bitch getting there I'm told, but I don't know if gun ranges in town let you bring in a shotgun, and outdoors seems more fun anyways.

Re:My $0.02... (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47566709)

The only person I've seen have trouble with a 12 gauge shotgun is a 110 pound woman not holding the weapon correctly, and sadly youtube has no shortage of women with poor posture firing a 12 gauge (probably with a magnum load) and dealing with the recoil.

I doubt you, as a man, would have any trouble with it. As for the .45 -- the recoil is not unmanageable in my conceal carry weapon, but might be a little much for someone inexperienced. My full sized Glock 21, on the other hand, my wife fires with no problem and no trouble with the recoil.

Re:My $0.02... (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47587281)

I wonder if one's ears are pretty much blown out when firing any kind of serious firearm indoors, without ear protection. That's another reason I don't want to have to reload, as I might be pretty disoriented after the first shot.

Re:My $0.02... (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47601317)

As someone who inadvertently removed his earmuffs at an indoor range...

It'll ring, but not for long.

Re:My $0.02... (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47605153)

That's good, because now I'm thinking I might need to be prepared to fire twice in the worst case; the first time with MH42's advice for ammo and the second with yours.

Re:My $0.02... (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 3 months ago | (#47606847)

I have a Remington 870, pump action, shortest legal barrel. It holds 4 shells in the tube (really, if you're at home, and you need more than 4 shells -- you're fucked anyway. For me, at that point, my wife has grabbed the AR-15 as well...)

Here's how I have it loaded:

Hornady Zombie Max 00 Buckshot
Hornady Zombie Max 00 Buckshot
Hornady Zombie Max 00 Buckshot
Remington 1 oz Slug


Hopefully none of those shells get fired. The slug in particular is really bad news for an assailant -- 9.1 inch temporary cavity.
1 oz slug in action against ballistics gel [youtube.com] Shot shells in ballistics gel [youtube.com]

That second video is why I wouldn't trust birdshot to save my life. Look at the penetration difference -- even the mighty (for a handgun) .45 is no match for 00 Buckshot.

Second video recommends #4 shot actually, I might have to think about reloading my shotgun. I have a couple of boxes of magnum brass pellet #4 shot... maybe go #4, 00, 00, slug.

Re:My $0.02... (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 3 months ago | (#47620731)

I'm not trying to be a contrarian to everything you're saying, but...

Actually that second video impressed me the most. A human torso is only so deep, and I think I just as soon have a large pattern like that, and that stays embedded in the attacker. Minimal exit wounds to me means maximal force of the blast absorbed by the attacker's body, and minimal chance of drywall penetration into other rooms (or neighbors' units).

And I'm pretty hesitant to assign much meaning to ballistics gel videos, beyond the cool fireworks and lavalamp-like visual aspects. As implored in the old video game Doom when you pick up the chainsaw weapon: Find some meat!. Here's one [youtube.com] , of lowly birdshot making a hamburger wound in a mock assailant.

Granted that's at only 10', but my intended defense chokepoint, the long part of my staircase, is 12' from upper to lower landing, which is right around the same as this vid's 24" muzzle plus 10' distance from the muzzle. You might have a bigger house, and no neighbors, so YMMV.

Now what if the attacker is superman on PCP, you might wonder. If a shotgun can hold four shots, I probably do have four shots since each would probably blast the guy back down the stairs after each charge up them. I suppose for the first I'd aim for the stomach, the next one in the genitals, and the one after that in the face. And then maybe your slug as the fourth. And then planning on spending the rest of my life in prison, I guess. Except I'd rather die than be in prison, so I guess I'd just let him get me then, at that point.

Maybe the fourth your 00 buckshot, to one of his knees. After all that he won't be able to walk or see, so I should be able to get away.

But more realistically, to the ordinary intruder (and potentially partner(s) in crime), the kerchunk will cause him(/them) to not even want to think about going upstairs, if it means hazarding close-range shotgun blasts in a narrow corridor with nowhere to go or hide.

Now if bad guy(s) is armed and decides to shoot through the floor at my estimated location... Install steel plating under the drywall of the corner I'd shoot around, and under the carpet where I'd stand? (This home warfare thing is crazy.)

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