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The war against ignorance.

grub (11606) writes | more than 8 years ago

User Journal 16


You've heard of Intelligent Design, aka "Creationism in a cheap tuxedo." You probably have not have heard of The Wedge. Simply put: it's the outline of a plan from a leading creationist group to push their agenda on the public. The document was leaked sometime in the 1990s. Check out this analysis of The Wedge. It will open your eyes to their tactics, failures and perseverance.
You've heard of Intelligent Design, aka "Creationism in a cheap tuxedo." You probably have not have heard of The Wedge. Simply put: it's the outline of a plan from a leading creationist group to push their agenda on the public. The document was leaked sometime in the 1990s. Check out this analysis of The Wedge. It will open your eyes to their tactics, failures and perseverance.

Make no mistake: this is a war. The creationists want to push society back to the dark ages where invisible men and government sanctioned spirits rule the world.

16 comments

New Order (1)

http (589131) | more than 8 years ago | (#13355939)

The money trail is illuminating. Thanks.

Separate issue: So what do you need to know aside from unix for the last 20 years in canada??

Re:New Order (1)

grub (11606) | more than 8 years ago | (#13356606)

I don't know. Do you want a full autobiography? :)

Re:New Order (1)

http (589131) | more than 8 years ago | (#13356683)

i was thinking more along the lines of 'Knowing Unix backwards and forwards is nice, but if it wasn't for _________ nobody would pay me for anything.'

Re:New Order (1)

grub (11606) | more than 8 years ago | (#13356774)

But that's what puts the roof over my head. Networking stuff too. So unix/linux/bsd isn't just "nice" it's my livelyhood. :)

War (1)

DisownedSky (905171) | more than 8 years ago | (#13356275)

It's a war the IDers appear to be losing. The White House scientific adviser has come out against ID, and even Rick "It Takes a Family" Santorum does not want it taught as an alternative to evolution.

However, the struggle goes on. In my own county, the school board caved in egregiously to pretty much the same forces on the subject of sex education [teachthefacts.org] and tolerance of gays. They used a couple of controversial points in the teacher background materials to trash the whole thing.

No... (1)

vidarlo (134906) | more than 8 years ago | (#13356749)

Make no mistake: this is a war. The creationists want to push society back to the dark ages where invisible men and government sanctioned spirits rule the world.

In my opinion, no. They want to push the world to follow their standards, including the part about who's got power.

Also, I guess some dumb people actually might believe in this. The only way to win the war, is to remove those dumb people, as thei're the foundation for all, paying the money to the church and whatever. So if we can convince those at the bottom that evolution really is happening, the people at the top will be forced to give in.

But yes, it is a war. And it is important not to ignore those people, like some tend to do. They're having power, they want more and (in the US) it looks like they get more. Sad day. Maybe islamic extremists ain't or biggest threat anymore? What about christian fundamentalists?

Oh, and grub: Nice journal you've got:) I enjoy it fro mtime to time.

Re:No... (1)

grub (11606) | more than 8 years ago | (#13356814)

They want to push the world to follow their standards, including the part about who's got power.

Right, which is what I was referring to when I wrote "government sanctioned spirits." As long as it's their mythology in place within government most of their sheep won't question anything. That is power.

Re:No... (1)

vidarlo (134906) | more than 8 years ago | (#13356882)

Right, which is what I was referring to when I wrote "government sanctioned spirits." As long as it's their mythology in place within government most of their sheep won't question anything. That is power.

Ah, well, then I'm sorry for misunderstanding you!

A interesting thing there... The USA has no state church. Norway, where I'm from has. We've even got a law saying that schools should teach children to be good christians. Yet, we don't have a single prayer in school, which I think (I am correct?) the USA has, even though they've got no official church... And they've got a president that interacts with god according to himself... Reminds me of the french system, where the king was a servant of god, and only god.

Re:No... (1)

grub (11606) | more than 8 years ago | (#13357023)

sorry for misunderstanding you

I may not have been very clear, not a problem.

I don't think the USA has prayers in school. Here (Canada) they did away with that ages ago. The people pushing creationism would be happy if the US became a great theocracy with religious police led by the Christian Taliban.

Re:No... (1)

vidarlo (134906) | more than 8 years ago | (#13357762)

The people pushing creationism would be happy if the US became a great theocracy with religious police led by the Christian Taliban.

Yes, the people pushing it, but I like to think that most people don't really enjoy being extremists, since the average man gets no extra power from it, thus any such movenment will at a point destroy itself, due to abuse. Well, that quite clearly do not work in practise, so the important thing is to inform, to tell people what is proven

And yes, I've been debating with what I'd call fundemental christians (smiths friends if you know those), and they believe in it, because they've seen it work for them. But another thing was very apparent for me, the person I was discussing with, was ensured she had a choice, even though that'd mean breaking entirely with her family, and most of her friends. She was sure that she could've walked away at any time. Well, yes she could. But leave behind all of her social network. Perphaps the important thing is to provide such people with other people to talk with, so it is feasible for them to break out? Help them build a social network in other words....

Now it looks like I generalize this debate into a religion debate, but religion really interests me, although I'm an atheist myself.

Re:No... (1)

DisownedSky (905171) | more than 8 years ago | (#13358013)

Maybe islamic extremists ain't or biggest threat anymore? What about christian fundamentalists?

The Taliban aren't just in Afghanistan, and the threat they pose ins't simply proportional to the degree that they plan to shed blood.

Re:No... (1)

vidarlo (134906) | more than 8 years ago | (#13358502)

The Taliban aren't just in Afghanistan, and the threat they pose ins't simply proportional to the degree that they plan to shed blood.

Taliban is the specific muslim group, which has disappeared. But the kind of people has not disappeared. The only thing that can be done against them is to stop recruitance. If we want that in a free democratic world. I'm not so sure. The important thing is to ensure that they don't get more support than fair. And that can only be done with education. Give people what education they want for free.

Religion will be there. But lets educate people not to kill other people in name of god. Regardless of religion

Re:No... (1)

DisownedSky (905171) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373883)

Taliban is the specific muslim group, which has disappeared

Would that they had. Anyway, you know, the METAPHORIC Taliban.

Yeah, pretty much right. (1)

Mmm coffee (679570) | more than 8 years ago | (#13359915)

As a Kansan this hits the bullseye. They get on our board of education with a strong and well thought out campaign. They seem normal on the surface, and you never know what they really want to do until it's too late and everyone is bitching about how we're the laughing stock of the world _yet again_. Then we promptly vote them out seeing as how Kansans are generally sane (but not very bright in regards to the BIG PICTURE around them, if that makes any sense). Next election they get in yet again, and the cycle continues.

Seeing as how the people around here are primarily protestant it's almost impossible to weed the creationists out during the elections. When you do find one or two after much research and point it out you get yelled at for being anti-Christian. Which I can dig, it's hard to say "Person X believes X Y and Z about the bible and I believe will sacrifice our already science curriculum to push it on the kids" without coming off as such.

The people want good schools, which we very much lack. The only person I know who supports this ID bullshit in our schools is my overly religious aunt, who blindly votes what her church tells her to. And this is how it is done - the sane people only outvote the churchies when they're pissed, so the churchies slip in under the radar.

Have no doubt about it, the United States is fucked and I don't see it being over until long after they've kamakazied our nation and the people wake up. The very same tactics being perfected in Kansas are used nationwide. It's just that the rest of the nation isn't as open about it as we are, so we're the punchline when in reality this... virus... is everywhere.

Que sera sera, at least I hope the revolution will be fun.

Re:Yeah, pretty much right. (1)

DisownedSky (905171) | more than 8 years ago | (#13373911)

Have no doubt about it, the United States is fucked and I don't see it being over until long after they've kamakazied our nation and the people wake up. The very same tactics being perfected in Kansas are used nationwide. It's just that the rest of the nation isn't as open about it as we are, so we're the punchline when in reality this... virus... is everywhere.

Except they haven't succeeded have they? At no public school in America is ID taught as an alternative theory to Evolution (it's not a theory - not even a bad one). The recent "only a theory not a fact" textbook stickers were defeated. Creationists have lost every court fight. ID is a desperation move and is failing.

Re:Yeah, pretty much right. (1)

BandwidthHog (257320) | more than 8 years ago | (#13380174)

point it out you get yelled at for being anti-Christian. Which I can dig, it's hard to say "Person X believes X Y and Z about the bible and I believe will sacrifice our already science curriculum to push it on the kids" without coming off as such.

Oh well. If I point out that someone thinks that 2+2=5, then I'm anti-imbecile? Sorry, no. I'm not anti-imbecile, but neither do I want to be governed by them. I'm also not anti-schizophrenic, but I don't think people who hear the voice of Cthulu whispering behind their eyes should be directing our foreign policy. They should be given adequate treatment, not unlimited power.
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