AB3A's Journal: Discussing Religion

I promise that I'll be good about this. I find religion interesting. I also think that a respectful discussion of religion, or the lack thereof, ought to be possible. I could be wrong about that.

The key is insightful, understanding comments, and strength to read those ideas which may appear quite toxic to you. Sadly, not many can discuss such issues dispassionately. But this is Slashdot and We're supposed to be nerds.

I am hoping we can do this without being reduced to a flame war.

So, without stepping on any other toes, do you feel religion is a necessary component to a modern society, or is it as useless as an old buggy whip in a modern sports car?

God is a concept...

[btlzu2]

Since I've already written on this and I feel like I may have bordered on crossing the line to disrespect, I'll reply with this (in line with a recent JE):

God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I'll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't

Re:God is a concept...

[DisownedSky]

I promise that I'll be good about this. I find religion interesting. I also think that a respectful discussion of religion, or the lack thereof, ought to be possible. I could be wrong about that.

I'm not optimistic. A respectful discussion is at least at it's core a rational discussion,which is why they are rare on any topic, but inherently people can't be rational about their religion. That, and Brights and Skeptics are often very mean-spirited to religious folk, fousing on the more absurd and liteera

Re:God is a concept...

[btlzu2]

LOL! FYI: Zimmerman == Bob Dylan.

Good post. :)

I'll bite.

[RailGunner]

So, without stepping on any other toes, do you feel religion is a necessary component to a modern society, or is it as useless as an old buggy whip in a modern sports car?

I feel religion is a necessary component to any society, regardless of how "modern" the society is.

Without getting in to the "why's" of my Christianity, let me offer what Christianity does for me in this life, and what I feel it does for society:

Because of my Christianity, I have a moral code that helps me to make wise decisions in m

Re:I'll bite.

[DisownedSky]

I don't think you understand Secular Humanism at all - just a strawman, a cartoon.

Secular humanism is really simple: humans and our life in this world are what is important, and no supernatural agency is required to confer this importance. Our appropriateness to and competence for our own existence is an evolutionary birthright, i.e. is part and parcel of who we are.

Secular humanists generally do not deny that some moral principles may be valid- even universally so, but that the laws declaimed in various

Re:I'll bite.

[RailGunner]

Secular humanism is really simple: humans and our life in this world are what is important, and no supernatural agency is required to confer this importance. Our appropriateness to and competence for our own existence is an evolutionary birthright, i.e. is part and parcel of who we are.

That importance you attribute to your life fails when you do. If your life is what is important, then the moment of death is when it ceases to be important. Therefore, ultimately, what you do or do not do does not matter a

Secular Humanism

[DisownedSky]

That importance you attribute to your life fails when you do. If your life is what is important, then the moment of death is when it ceases to be important. Therefore, ultimately, what you do or do not do does not matter a bit, and your life does not matter.

So you are arguing that no one's life matters because it comes to an end? Exactly how do you work that one out? An obvious consequence is that the life of anyone who is dead now does not matter. Of course "matters" begs the question of "to whom."

T

Re:Secular Humanism

[RailGunner]

Let me phrase it a different way, then.

In roughly 3 billion years, our sun will likely turn into a Red Giant star, engufing the inner planets.

Assuming that humanity never gets off this planet, and the Earth, and all live on it, is completely destroyed....

How does your life matter? How does anyone's life matter?

Re:Secular Humanism

[Cujo]

My life matters to me, and to some other humans, and possibly to many. My existence is a done deal - it has happened and can't be taken away from me. I don't fear the time of my non-existence. Like any good organism, I do worry about the continued existence of my descendants, but that's another matter.

The mythic Christian deity doesn't matter to me at all, except as such. It will also be gone when the world ends.

Re:Secular Humanism

[RailGunner]

I think you missed my original point.

Sure you're life matters to you. How can it matter to you if you don't exist to value it?

I value your life. If you die, your life, will still have value that I have placed on it. When I die, any value I had placed on your life would die with me.

I'll pose the same question to you: How can you value your life if you do not exist?

Moo

[Chacham]

Jung talks about the god-image as one of the arch-images. If you are interested in its affect on society, you may want to consider reading (a derivative of) his work.

Re:Moo

[AB3A]

Thanks for the reference. I'll look in to it...

Re:Moo

[Chacham]

In my next order of books i plan to get more of Jacobi's books. The two i've read so far explain a decent overview of JUng with details fitting into the big picture. IIRC, she has one on arch-images. So, that'll be the one i get soon enough.