×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Rant: Joe Celko is an idiot.

Chacham (981) writes | more than 8 years ago

User Journal 5

So, i'm hanging out in news://comp.databases.ibm-db2, and along comes Joe Celko, who has written a few books on SQL. He knows his stuff, but his pompous style reminds me of Martin Gardner. Though Gardner's writing style aims to intrigue whereas Celko comes to teach.

So, i'm hanging out in news://comp.databases.ibm-db2, and along comes Joe Celko, who has written a few books on SQL. He knows his stuff, but his pompous style reminds me of Martin Gardner. Though Gardner's writing style aims to intrigue whereas Celko comes to teach.

Anyway, someone posted a comment on using dynamic sql to write a procedure for table creation. Celko responded like a child, the author came with his rejoinder, and Celko got on his soapbox.

The first comment bothered me, the second one got right to me, so i responded. Then he came back with another message that i find to be so funny, not so much in content, but that he actually responded. Or something like that.

First mistake: Refering to publication or teaching job as stamp of athority: After teaching SQL for 20+ years and writing six books on SQL, I disagree.

Second mistake: Sticking in socio-political comments to back-up his argument: My "Zen Master with a stick approach" bothers the current generation of whining kids with a sense of entitlement."

The funny thing is, i agree with his second statement.

That settles it, Joe Celko is an idiot, and i will (most likely) never by _his_ books. :)

5 comments

I agree & disagree (1)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 8 years ago | (#13649785)

Celko obviously comes off as a pompous ass, "ESR" style... but he's also right.

Alot of "database dev" and "dba" types these days learn how to point and click on SQL server or access and frankly don't know shit about databases. I can understand a sql guru like Celko getting bent when some not-so clueful guy starts asking about doing something that is almost guaranteed to have ill effect on whatever database he's accessing.

To me, that question is like asking a C++ guru about how to use gotos to dynamically handle memory allocation.

"Zen Master" (1)

rholliday (754515) | more than 8 years ago | (#13651115)

First of all, his chosen display name is "--CELKO--," which says a lot. Everyone must know exactly who he is, and he obviously deserves all caps. Because that's never annoying.

Secondly, I would take the answers of the people who develop the tools over someone who merely relates how he thinks they should be used. Granted, I won't claim to be an expert on the subject, so he may be correct in his assertion of practices, but his methods are deplorable.

Thirdly, "Bad programmers kill people." That's nice Joe. You're not only going to yell at some guy who's just trying to learn, you're not only going to call him a "whining kid," you're not only going to call him a bad programmer, you're going to tell him he's a developing murderer? Yes, in extreme cases bad program design or coding can kill (Therac [google.com] springs to mind). However if you use that as the basis for your arguements and/or teaching style, I can't imagine being very effective. Programs will have bugs at every level of development, often unforseeable. Make every young programmer think "bugs == deaths!!" and you will soon have no young programmers.

Re:"Zen Master" (1)

Chacham (981) | more than 8 years ago | (#13651258)

Yeah.

Note that, i agree with his points. I mostly disagree with his presentation of it. I think that is what you are basically saying as well.

I needed an excuse not to take his books seriously (the title "SQL for Smarties" is childish), and this gave me the final reason. He has good things to say, i just wish he'd take a more passive role.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...