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The problem with the Golden Rule

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) writes | more than 7 years ago

User Journal 55

Love your neighbor as you love yourself- the problem with this rule is when you try it with somebody who has an ego larger than your own and no humility. A better version of the rule would be to love others as others wish to be loved; but that would require a level of mind reading and social knowledge that I simply do not possess.Love your neighbor as you love yourself- the problem with this rule is when you try it with somebody who has an ego larger than your own and no humility. A better version of the rule would be to love others as others wish to be loved; but that would require a level of mind reading and social knowledge that I simply do not possess.

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The Golden Rule (1)

Philip K Dickhead (906971) | more than 7 years ago | (#18407825)

Does not specify reciprocity, or even appreciation. You do the right thing and adopt the correct inward attitude, knowing that wherever you are, whomever you are with, you are in the presence of God, and behave in as much accordance as you have the capacity for doing so.

There is more in imitation of Christ by doing unto others, knowing there's no personal satisfaction in it. How much has God done, beyond anyone's ability to appreciate?

I know of your distaste for Islam on principle - but hearken the prayer of Muhummad: "Oh Lord, Show me things as they truly are!" That is, not as the "should be" from our perspective - but how they are perfect and complete and universal, from God's POV.

Re:The Golden Rule (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18408061)

My point is though- sometimes the best treatment you can muster, the most equal to how you want to be treated yourself, is nothing more than insult and torture to somebody else. People are different- and some are so spoiled as to think help is hurt.

I know of your distaste for Islam on principle - but hearken the prayer of Muhummad: "Oh Lord, Show me things as they truly are!" That is, not as the "should be" from our perspective - but how they are perfect and complete and universal, from God's POV.

Actually, I kind of like some things about Islam- but the problem with this prayer is my problem with Islam- we human beings are specifically constructed to NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH, no matter how much we imagine it to be so. We cannot know the mind of God from our own mind. Nice thought- wrong idea about the truth.

Re:The Golden Rule (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18408425)

and some are so spoiled as to think help is hurt
I think you were reflecting on yourself and meant to say,"Some are so prideful as to think that baiting with insults [slashdot.org] is help."

Re:The Golden Rule (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18408501)

Providing help, baiting with insults- the difference is only in the eye of the beholder is what you have taught me.

Re:The Golden Rule (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18408717)

only in the eye of the beholder
Not according to your own admission [slashdot.org] .

AC: It's interesting to note how you can carry on conversations within your journal without baiting but, in nearly every comment you made to the target, you slipped insults in on a regular basis.

MH42: It seemed the *ONLY* way to get his attention, since he utterly ignored *EVERYTHING* else that I wrote.
Are you done crying for my attention yet?

Re:The Golden Rule (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18414529)

Are you done crying for my attention yet?

Are you done ignoring everything I say yet?

This is EXACTLY how I would want to be treated.

Re:The Golden Rule (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18416491)

Are you done ignoring everything I say yet
How prideful do you have to be to assume that you deserve any attention?

Re:The Golden Rule (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18416893)

How prideful do you have to be to assume that you deserve any attention?

I don't- but there's an easy option to that one. Don't hit reply. Hitting reply would assume a responsibility to actually take into account the other person's words and intentions- something you seem incapable of doing.

Soothing (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18417045)

Hitting reply would assume a responsibility
You're crying for attention [slashdot.org] but the words you're using are so alarming (like a screaming child) that I don't know what else to do but to give you my pity.

There there little one. It'll be alright. Just lay your head back and rest. Feel the warm soothing love of the universe surround you. There's no need to keep screaming.

Or the other way around... (1)

turg (19864) | more than 7 years ago | (#18408975)

Another limitation of the golden rule (which, it can be argued, reflects a limitation of humans) is that the capacity for loving others is capped at one's capacity for loving oneself. There are an awful lot of people out there who don't love themselves.

i dunno (1)

SolemnDragon (593956) | more than 7 years ago | (#18412009)

treating others as you'd wish to be treated doesn't mean serving them beer because you like beer, it means serving them what they'd like to the best of your ability. Ego, yours or theirs, shouldn't enter into it?

You're not obliged to help people hurt themselves, so if what they want is actually harmful, you don't deliver- but the idea isn't treat them as you'd like to be treated in material, but treat them as you'd like to be treated in approach. Be hospitable, kind, all that- consider what their preferences are.

No, it won't get you treated well all the time. And i can't tell you how you should handle those times, it depends on your resources and your flexibility of nature. But i can tell you that from a game theory perspective, when you treat others well at least some of the time when they haven't done so, you open the door for positive relationships where none were before. So wise people forgive and treat others well as much as they are able.

*shrug* I can't tell you what you should do to be treated well all the time. But at least you'll know you tried to treat others well, and the reward is being right with god and being who you want to be, not in always being treated well by others in return.

Re:i dunno (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18414805)

And i can't tell you how you should handle those times, it depends on your resources and your flexibility of nature.

That may be a huge part of my problem. I'm not very flexible in my nature at all- it takes me *weeks* before I realize what other people seem to know in an instant. I can't tell the difference between wine people and beer people by looking at them- and I'm almost a sterotypical beer person.

Re:i dunno (1)

SolemnDragon (593956) | more than 7 years ago | (#18415015)

So, the answer is to ask, because that way you can offer what they want?

I can't tell the difference, either. Graceful honesty solves many problems that etiquette can't.

blame the government :-p (1)

eglamkowski (631706) | more than 7 years ago | (#18412191)

Analects of Confucius
Book II: Wei Chang
Chapter 3

1. The Master said, 'If the people be led by laws, and uniformity sought to be given them by punishments, they will try to avoid the punishment, but have no sense of shame.

2. 'If they be led by virtue, and uniformity sought to be given them by the rules of propriety, they will have the sense of shame, and moreover will become good.'


Now, I ask you, when's the last time we had a president who lead by virtue? We have too much of the "rule of law" in our society today and not enough of the virtue.

Re:blame the government :-p (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18414893)

The whole idea of American society- the very core of Enlightenment and the Grand Experiment- was to replace rule of morality (and with it, the devine right of kings) with rule of law. That Confucious would disagree, I'm not surprised.

But you're right- in many ways, Rule of Law has gotten in our way. We're no longer a very moral people.

Your perfect fit! (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18420115)

Your lead to jobs@freegeek.org has provided the following open position in your area:

>From: liane@freegeek.org
>To: HomelessInLaJolla
>Subject: Re: [freegeek-jobs] Resume
>Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:46:54 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Sorry about the bad link!
>I guess one of the jobs closed yesterday, the Sales Coordinator Staff
>position.
>The Recycling Intern position is open until March 25th.
>http://www.freegeek.org/jobs/index.php#recycinter n
>
>Peace,
>Liane
>
> > From: HomelessInLaJolla
> > To: liane@freegeek.org
> > Subject: Re: [freegeek-jobs] Resume
> > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:17:32 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > 404 -- No jobs available?
> >
> >>From: liane@freegeek.org
> >>To: HomelessInLaJOlla
> >>CC: jobs@freegeek.org
> >>Subject: Re: [freegeek-jobs] Resume
> >>Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 10:58:32 -0700 (PDT)
> >>
> >>HI,
> >>here is a list of available jobs at Free Geek. Please let us know which
> >>job you are most interested in.
> >>http://www.freegeek.org/jobs.php
> >>
> >>Peace,
> >>Liane
> >>http://freegeek.org

Due to the limited hours the position is not suitable for me. The essay contest is a deal killer.

I immediately thought of you, though. Maybe you could take on some part time work. I think you would be perfect for a recycling position.

Re:Your perfect fit! (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18420417)

I'm already doing it- they need more help though. It's a great way to give away computers to people who need them.

Theft! (0, Flamebait)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18420559)

The job description doesn't say anything about giving away computers.

What did you write your essay [google.com] on? *snicker* How to demand attention using insults?

Re:Theft! (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18421005)

The use of Linux in the educational environment.

More theft! (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18421681)

Undoubtedly you stole your ideas from this [slashdot.org] guy [intelligentblogger.com] . You haven't demonstrated any educational capacity of your own.

Re:More theft! (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18421827)

Linux isn't C64 Basic.

Linux isn't C64 Basic. (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18421861)

Really? No kidding? As usual you missed any sort of metaphorical connection. I think your brain problem is getting in your way again.

Re:Linux isn't C64 Basic. (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18421889)

I've decided that, based on a comment from SD in this journal, that the best way to handle you is to default to my basic personality and stop acting like I know anything at all. You are obviously operating on a different metaphorical plane than the rest of us, so why should I bother?

Re:Linux isn't C64 Basic. (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18422005)

the best way to handle you is to default to my basic personality and stop acting like I know anything at all
That would be your best course of action. It stands to reason that your essay was "acting" like you knew what you were talking about as well when, in reality, you were probably plagiarizing or talking out of your ass.

You are obviously operating on a different metaphorical plane
Hm, you say you write an essay about education and Linux (commonly associated with programming), and AKAImBatman has a blog where he writes about returning programming education (commonly associated with Linux) to the new generation. Yet you miss the connection. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you truly do have a brain disorder; though I wouldn't normally associate "idiocy" with autism--that's entirely your claim.

From here [slashdot.org] :

it takes me *weeks* before I realize what other people seem to know in an instant
Maybe you should take more time to think about my words before you respond by lashing at me.

Re:Linux isn't C64 Basic. (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18422123)

The use of Linux in education had nothing to do with teaching kids programming- it had to do with the use of edubuntu for primary grade kids to learn typing and simple math games, so if you were trying to make a connenction you failed miserably.

And labeling somebody with a different system of logic or frame of reference than you as "idiocy" is nothing more than base bigotry, no different than any other racist.

Soothing (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18422313)

The use of Linux in education had nothing to do with teaching kids programming
Nothing at all, huh? Never? Not even remotely connected? You truly are slower [m-w.com] than I thought.

it had to do with the use of edubuntu for primary grade kids to learn typing and simple math games
You mean software similar to the packages written about on this page [intelligentblogger.com] from AKAImBatman?

labeling somebody...as "idiocy"
You've clearly displayed extreme mental retardation [m-w.com] . The only system of logic which you've displayed is "If UID=1026842 then REPLY=Flame+Derision+Pride".

Are you done crying [slashdot.org] for my attention yet?

Re:Soothing (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18422827)

Are you done crying for my attention yet?

You're posting in my journal- the only person crying for attention is you. Which becomes obvious by your racist bigotted statement that anybody who thinks differently than you do is retarded.

Hush little baby... (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18422953)

the only person crying for attention is you
I've come running, like any concerned human, to respond [slashdot.org] to your previously acknowledged desperate plea.

Are you done crying [slashdot.org] for my attention yet?

your racist bigotted statement
...don't say a word.

Re:Your perfect fit! (1)

corbettw (214229) | more than 7 years ago | (#18429761)

Due to the limited hours the position is not suitable for me.

Yeah, cause being homeless takes up so many of your valuable hours.

The essay contest is a deal killer.

You write multiple journal entries per day, so obviously you have no problem with writing. What else might cause you to balk at jumping through a (very small) hoop before taking a job?

You are a perfect example of why I don't give squat to homeless bums: you're homeless because you want to be, and when presented with a way to get off the streets you find reason after reason not to jump on it. So why should anyone extend you charity when you're so unwilling to take care of yourself?

Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18433271)

You are a perfect example of why
This is flamebait and can be ignored.

Re:Flamebait (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18433379)

This is flamebait and can be ignored.

So why didn't you? In fact, isn't that your entire problem online summed up in a single message?

Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18433453)

your entire problem online
Is the constant stream of flamebait coming from you and your buddies.

Re:Flamebait (1)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434073)

Is the constant stream of flamebait coming from you and your buddies.

"Flamebait". Because "Calumny" is so five minutes ago.

The problem is, that you consider *everything* flamebait. When I first asked you questions in your journal, trying to understand more about what's going on, for example, you accused me of browbeating you.

You claim in your Journal that you want an audience, and yet you intentionally provoke and attack anyone who posts anything other than complete agreement to your journals.

But then, you engage in a lot of self-sabotaging behavior.

Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434135)

"Calumny" is so five minutes ago
Flamebait. Everything coming from you to me has been calumnious. Why are you arguing the truth?

Re:Flamebait (1)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434911)

Flamebait. Everything coming from you to me has been calumnious. Why are you arguing the truth?

My posting history proves otherwise. Your posting history shows a penchant for attacking everyone in sight.

But by all means, keep trying to provoke me into a full scale flame war. I won't take the bait; bigger and badder trolls than you have tried and failed.

Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18434947)

My posting history proves otherwise
Are you suggesting that I'm the only person you respond to with flamebait? Could you please note the first comment you posted to me? Spoiler: It's full of flamebait.

Re:Flamebait (1)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435163)

Are you suggesting that I'm the only person you respond to with flamebait?

No, I'm suggesting that I do not respond to you with flamebait, and despite your attempts to get me to do so, and despite the fact it's been a long while since I've been in a flamewar, I just don't have the time or the interest.

Could you please note the first comment you posted to me?

Yes, I can. [slashdot.org]

In the discussion that followed, I asked questions and mentioned my own work history, you immediately accused me of browbeating [slashdot.org] you. All I did was ask questions and state that I didn't understand your logic, giving you an opportunity to clarify.

Your posts have a distinct pattern of that behavior - attacking people who just want to ask questions.

Most people, If they don't want people commenting on their journal entries, turn comments off. You seem to enjoy attacking those people if they *dare* disagree with you, calling them foul, rude names, and accusing them of all being part of a conspiracy against you, then wonder why those same, unconnected, people think you're being a little bit paranoid.

Marxist Hacker 42 and I agree on very little. The idea that we would somehow coordinate against you, especially with a complete piece of garbage like that Red_foreman troll, is laughable.

Maybe I should post the email I got from Red_Foreman asking me if my daughter was doing porn yet.

Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435327)

From this comment [slashdot.org] :

you choose to be homeless
Flamebait. I've specifically described, on many occasions, how I was railroaded.

From this comment [slashdot.org] :

that's just what you'd get as a new hire
Flamebait. You're deliberately playing naive by asserting that everyone is treated with "n+1" impunity.

merit increases still happen
Flamebait. You're deliberately ignoring everything I had posted about my personal experience.

You seem to enjoy attacking those people
Flamebait. You're deliberately ignoring self-defense--which is obvious as the flamewar was initiated by them.

See? Though you're not as direct as MH42 or the ACs, you're still full of nothing but flamebait--maybe with a little more (ultimately useless) filler so that you can claim plausible deniability.

Re:Flamebait (1)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435475)

Flamebait. I've specifically described, on many occasions, how I was railroaded.

Wrong. You have also written many times about your outright refusal to take a menial job and your demand for a 6 figure salary, our your refusal to modify your resume for an HR drone. By choosing not to act, you have chosen the status quo, therefore, you have chosen to be homeless.

Flamebait. You're deliberately playing naive by asserting that everyone is treated with "n+1" impunity.

Wrong. I'm asserting that New Hires are not paid much more than your n+1 scale, and that it's only a beginning wage when starting with a company. If anything, I was trying to encourage you to take a job that, while perhaps suboptimal, would at least be an improvement over your current circumstances.

Flamebait. You're deliberately ignoring everything I had posted about my personal experience.

Wrong I can't ignore it if I didn't read it.

Every company I have ever worked for has at least given 2-3% raises on the low end. I am stating this as fact, not as an attempt to "flame" you.

Flamebait. You're deliberately ignoring self-defense--which is obvious as the flamewar was initiated by them.

Except I've seen you post replies to MH42 in other people's journals trying to start the whole thing up again, while claiming that you are the one being harassed.

See? Though you're not as direct as MH42 or the ACs, you're still full of nothing but flamebait--maybe with a little more (ultimately useless) filler so that you can claim plausible deniability.

And now that I've carved up your flawed assertions, I can do to you what I do to every other troll. I'm going to ignore you.

Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18435571)

outright refusal to take a menial job
That's my choice and is of no concern to you. You're just justifying posting more flamebait.

Re:Flamebait (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436295)

It's actually proof that he never posted flamebait- except in your twisted world where every single comment is flamebait.

MH42 Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436393)

where every single comment is flamebait
Nearly every single comment you've posted to me is flamebait, trolling, griefing, or harassment. Arguing with the truth is just more flamebait.

Re:MH42 Flamebait (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436723)

Nearly every single comment you've posted to me is flamebait, trolling, griefing, or harassment. Arguing with the truth is just more flamebait.

And thus it doesn't matter what I post. It's all the same to you.

MH42 Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18436811)

it doesn't matter what I post
The telling part is that you don't post such a continual barrage of flamebait to other users and you started on me immediately, as if you had already made up your mind to deliberately harass me to death. That, coupled with your confession in which you acknowledge that you are aware of the concept of baiting (and, implied, harassment), should have resulted in your incarceration by now.

I guess I'll just have to wait and see how long you want to continue this. I'm already homeless. You can't harass me out of a job or a home, so I'm really curious to know what your personal vendetta is. Did I somehow ruin one of your past lives?

It's all the same to you
Yes, when you write to me, it is all the same: you demonstrate a completely different personality when you post to me than when you post to anyone else--often you're flaming on me for opinions which you've written in support of in other threads. The harassment is deliberate and, whatever your rationalization, that deliberate nature cannot be denied.

Re:MH42 Flamebait (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18437253)

Not unless you're the Steven from 1997 era usenet alt.social.religion.roman.catholic, who was a Oneness Pentecostal, claimed to have 6 followers in his cult (two of which were his wives) who was also into suing everybody he met online (luckily for us, Tenessee had a very reasonable local judge to him who realized that lawsuits and complaints about online harrassment were all frivoulous). I wonder whatever happened to him?

Oh yeah, and then there was Carlos, the guy for whom English was clearly his second language, who claimed that the only true version of Christianity was dispensationalism based on the 1637 version of the King James Bible. I suppose you could be him too.

There have been a lot of people online who claim I'm a troll, who claim I bait them, who claim harrassment, when all I ever really intended was to learn about other people. The only thing I can think about them is that they're using a very different version of language than I'm familiar with, and so it doesn't matter what I post to such people- if I posted a single letter it'd be flamebait anyway, so what's the difference? The police and courts are used to such frivoulous complaints, and know them when they see them, as are most ISPs. Worst that has ever happened to me was a very nice sysop in college that allowed me to change my e-mail address to get away from the infamous Turkish Troll- who figgured "seebert" sounded Armenian and filled my inbox with 30-60 messages a day accusing my ancestors of a genocide in 1912.

MH42 Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18437291)

who claim I bait them
You've already admitted it.

The question still is: Why do you use such abusive language specifically when replying to me if you do not use similar language with anyone else?

Re:MH42 Flamebait (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18443453)

simple- I use the language that is used with me, regardless of who I am talking to.

MH42 Flamebait (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18445545)

I use the language that is used with me
Chicken or egg.

Re:MH42 Flamebait (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18445581)

Egg- I'm an ultramontaine, and thus I believed Pope John Paul II when he embraced evolution.

You're an egg picker (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18446073)

You are pictured in paper about targetted network harassment [wikipedia.org]

Re:You're an egg picker (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18447075)

"targetted network harassment"

If you're going to make up a term, you can at least define it

You're an egg picker (1)

HomelessInLaJolla (1026842) | more than 7 years ago | (#18447465)

Flamebait

Re:You're an egg picker (1)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18447493)

Flamebait.
Why are you picking on a Homeless man?
Calumny!

...

That was surprisingly easy to parody this troll. In fact, I'd almost be willing to wager you could replace this guy with a 200 or so line LISP routine and no one would be the wiser.

After all, Eliza only takes around 100 lines of LISP code...

Re:You're an egg picker (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 7 years ago | (#18447577)

True enough- his responses are pretty easy- once you leave his worldview, everything is "pick a negative word from the word of the day calendar".

MH42 Flamebait (1)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 7 years ago | (#18447749)

Flamebait. You're just browbeating me because I don't have a calendar because I'm homeless.

...

Actually, I take it back. 150 lines of LISP.
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