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Journal Marxist Hacker 42's Journal: The problem with the Golden Rule 55

Journal by Marxist Hacker 42
Love your neighbor as you love yourself- the problem with this rule is when you try it with somebody who has an ego larger than your own and no humility. A better version of the rule would be to love others as others wish to be loved; but that would require a level of mind reading and social knowledge that I simply do not possess.
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The problem with the Golden Rule More

The problem with the Golden Rule

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  • Does not specify reciprocity, or even appreciation. You do the right thing and adopt the correct inward attitude, knowing that wherever you are, whomever you are with, you are in the presence of God, and behave in as much accordance as you have the capacity for doing so.

    There is more in imitation of Christ by doing unto others, knowing there's no personal satisfaction in it. How much has God done, beyond anyone's ability to appreciate?

    I know of your distaste for Islam on principle - but hearken the prayer
    • My point is though- sometimes the best treatment you can muster, the most equal to how you want to be treated yourself, is nothing more than insult and torture to somebody else. People are different- and some are so spoiled as to think help is hurt.

      I know of your distaste for Islam on principle - but hearken the prayer of Muhummad: "Oh Lord, Show me things as they truly are!" That is, not as the "should be" from our perspective - but how they are perfect and complete and universal, from God's POV.

      Actua

      • and some are so spoiled as to think help is hurt
        I think you were reflecting on yourself and meant to say,"Some are so prideful as to think that baiting with insults [slashdot.org] is help."
        • Providing help, baiting with insults- the difference is only in the eye of the beholder is what you have taught me.

          • only in the eye of the beholder

            Not according to your own admission [slashdot.org].

            AC: It's interesting to note how you can carry on conversations within your journal without baiting but, in nearly every comment you made to the target, you slipped insults in on a regular basis.

            MH42: It seemed the *ONLY* way to get his attention, since he utterly ignored *EVERYTHING* else that I wrote.

            Are you done crying for my attention yet?

            • Are you done crying for my attention yet?

              Are you done ignoring everything I say yet?

              This is EXACTLY how I would want to be treated.

              • Are you done ignoring everything I say yet
                How prideful do you have to be to assume that you deserve any attention?
                • How prideful do you have to be to assume that you deserve any attention?

                  I don't- but there's an easy option to that one. Don't hit reply. Hitting reply would assume a responsibility to actually take into account the other person's words and intentions- something you seem incapable of doing.

                  • Hitting reply would assume a responsibility
                    You're crying for attention [slashdot.org] but the words you're using are so alarming (like a screaming child) that I don't know what else to do but to give you my pity.

                    There there little one. It'll be alright. Just lay your head back and rest. Feel the warm soothing love of the universe surround you. There's no need to keep screaming.
  • Another limitation of the golden rule (which, it can be argued, reflects a limitation of humans) is that the capacity for loving others is capped at one's capacity for loving oneself. There are an awful lot of people out there who don't love themselves.
  • treating others as you'd wish to be treated doesn't mean serving them beer because you like beer, it means serving them what they'd like to the best of your ability. Ego, yours or theirs, shouldn't enter into it?

    You're not obliged to help people hurt themselves, so if what they want is actually harmful, you don't deliver- but the idea isn't treat them as you'd like to be treated in material, but treat them as you'd like to be treated in approach. Be hospitable, kind, all that- consider what their preference
    • And i can't tell you how you should handle those times, it depends on your resources and your flexibility of nature.

      That may be a huge part of my problem. I'm not very flexible in my nature at all- it takes me *weeks* before I realize what other people seem to know in an instant. I can't tell the difference between wine people and beer people by looking at them- and I'm almost a sterotypical beer person.
      • So, the answer is to ask, because that way you can offer what they want?

        I can't tell the difference, either. Graceful honesty solves many problems that etiquette can't.
  • Analects of Confucius
    Book II: Wei Chang
    Chapter 3

    1. The Master said, 'If the people be led by laws, and uniformity sought to be given them by punishments, they will try to avoid the punishment, but have no sense of shame.

    2. 'If they be led by virtue, and uniformity sought to be given them by the rules of propriety, they will have the sense of shame, and moreover will become good.'

    Now, I ask you, when's the last time we had a president who lead by virtue? We have too much of the "rule of law" in our society
    • The whole idea of American society- the very core of Enlightenment and the Grand Experiment- was to replace rule of morality (and with it, the devine right of kings) with rule of law. That Confucious would disagree, I'm not surprised.

      But you're right- in many ways, Rule of Law has gotten in our way. We're no longer a very moral people.
  • Your lead to jobs@freegeek.org has provided the following open position in your area:

    >From: liane@freegeek.org
    >To: HomelessInLaJolla
    >Subject: Re: [freegeek-jobs] Resume
    >Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:46:54 -0700 (PDT)
    >
    >Sorry about the bad link!
    >I guess one of the jobs closed yesterday, the Sales Coordinator Staff
    >position.
    >The Recycling Intern position is open until March 25th.
    >http://www.freegeek.org/jobs/index.php#recycinter n
    >
    >Peace,
    >Liane
    >
    > > From: HomelessInLa
    • I'm already doing it- they need more help though. It's a great way to give away computers to people who need them.
    • Due to the limited hours the position is not suitable for me.

      Yeah, cause being homeless takes up so many of your valuable hours.

      The essay contest is a deal killer.

      You write multiple journal entries per day, so obviously you have no problem with writing. What else might cause you to balk at jumping through a (very small) hoop before taking a job?

      You are a perfect example of why I don't give squat to homeless bums: you're homeless because you want to be, and when presented with a way to get off the streets y

      • You are a perfect example of why
        This is flamebait and can be ignored.
        • This is flamebait and can be ignored.

          So why didn't you? In fact, isn't that your entire problem online summed up in a single message?

          • your entire problem online
            Is the constant stream of flamebait coming from you and your buddies.
            • Is the constant stream of flamebait coming from you and your buddies.

              "Flamebait". Because "Calumny" is so five minutes ago.

              The problem is, that you consider *everything* flamebait. When I first asked you questions in your journal, trying to understand more about what's going on, for example, you accused me of browbeating you.

              You claim in your Journal that you want an audience, and yet you intentionally provoke and attack anyone who posts anything other than complete agreement to your journals.

              But

              • "Calumny" is so five minutes ago
                Flamebait. Everything coming from you to me has been calumnious. Why are you arguing the truth?
                • Flamebait. Everything coming from you to me has been calumnious. Why are you arguing the truth?

                  My posting history proves otherwise. Your posting history shows a penchant for attacking everyone in sight.

                  But by all means, keep trying to provoke me into a full scale flame war. I won't take the bait; bigger and badder trolls than you have tried and failed.

                  • My posting history proves otherwise
                    Are you suggesting that I'm the only person you respond to with flamebait? Could you please note the first comment you posted to me? Spoiler: It's full of flamebait.
                    • Are you suggesting that I'm the only person you respond to with flamebait?

                      No, I'm suggesting that I do not respond to you with flamebait, and despite your attempts to get me to do so, and despite the fact it's been a long while since I've been in a flamewar, I just don't have the time or the interest.

                      Could you please note the first comment you posted to me?

                      Yes, I can. [slashdot.org]

                      In the discussion that followed, I asked questions and mentioned my own work history, you immediately accused me of browbeating [slashdot.org] yo
                    • From this comment [slashdot.org]:

                      you choose to be homeless

                      Flamebait. I've specifically described, on many occasions, how I was railroaded.

                      From this comment [slashdot.org]:

                      that's just what you'd get as a new hire

                      Flamebait. You're deliberately playing naive by asserting that everyone is treated with "n+1" impunity.

                      merit increases still happen

                      Flamebait. You're deliberately ignoring everything I had posted about my personal experience.

                      You seem to enjoy attacking those people

                      Flamebait. You're deliberately ignoring self-defense--which is obvious as the flamewar was initiated by them.

                      See? Though you're not as direct as MH42 or the ACs, you're still full of nothing

                    • Flamebait. I've specifically described, on many occasions, how I was railroaded.

                      Wrong. You have also written many times about your outright refusal to take a menial job and your demand for a 6 figure salary, our your refusal to modify your resume for an HR drone. By choosing not to act, you have chosen the status quo, therefore, you have chosen to be homeless.

                      Flamebait. You're deliberately playing naive by asserting that everyone is treated with "n+1" impunity.

                      Wrong. I'm asserting that New Hires are

                    • outright refusal to take a menial job
                      That's my choice and is of no concern to you. You're just justifying posting more flamebait.
                    • It's actually proof that he never posted flamebait- except in your twisted world where every single comment is flamebait.

                    • where every single comment is flamebait
                      Nearly every single comment you've posted to me is flamebait, trolling, griefing, or harassment. Arguing with the truth is just more flamebait.
                    • Nearly every single comment you've posted to me is flamebait, trolling, griefing, or harassment. Arguing with the truth is just more flamebait.

                      And thus it doesn't matter what I post. It's all the same to you.

                    • it doesn't matter what I post

                      The telling part is that you don't post such a continual barrage of flamebait to other users and you started on me immediately, as if you had already made up your mind to deliberately harass me to death. That, coupled with your confession in which you acknowledge that you are aware of the concept of baiting (and, implied, harassment), should have resulted in your incarceration by now.

                      I guess I'll just have to wait and see how long you want to continue this. I'm already homeless. You can't harass me out

                    • Not unless you're the Steven from 1997 era usenet alt.social.religion.roman.catholic, who was a Oneness Pentecostal, claimed to have 6 followers in his cult (two of which were his wives) who was also into suing everybody he met online (luckily for us, Tenessee had a very reasonable local judge to him who realized that lawsuits and complaints about online harrassment were all frivoulous). I wonder whatever happened to him?

                      Oh yeah, and then there was Carlos, the guy for whom English was clearly his second l

                    • who claim I bait them
                      You've already admitted it.

                      The question still is: Why do you use such abusive language specifically when replying to me if you do not use similar language with anyone else?
                    • simple- I use the language that is used with me, regardless of who I am talking to.

                    • I use the language that is used with me
                      Chicken or egg.
                    • Egg- I'm an ultramontaine, and thus I believed Pope John Paul II when he embraced evolution.
                    • You are pictured in paper about targetted network harassment [wikipedia.org]
                    • "targetted network harassment"

                      If you're going to make up a term, you can at least define it
                    • Flamebait.
                      Why are you picking on a Homeless man?
                      Calumny!

                      ...

                      That was surprisingly easy to parody this troll. In fact, I'd almost be willing to wager you could replace this guy with a 200 or so line LISP routine and no one would be the wiser.

                      After all, Eliza only takes around 100 lines of LISP code...
                    • True enough- his responses are pretty easy- once you leave his worldview, everything is "pick a negative word from the word of the day calendar".
                    • Flamebait. You're just browbeating me because I don't have a calendar because I'm homeless.

                      ...

                      Actually, I take it back. 150 lines of LISP.

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