Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Obama: Judged by the company he has kept

sm62704 (957197) writes | more than 6 years ago

United States 20

I've chastised folks for blindly following tired cliches ("money doesn't grow on trees"? Tell that to an orchard owner) but here are two I'm going to trot out here, neither one as universal as any of the others.

"Birds of a feather flock together"

"You are judged by the company you keep."

I've chastised folks for blindly following tired cliches ("money doesn't grow on trees"? Tell that to an orchard owner) but here are two I'm going to trot out here, neither one as universal as any of the others.

"Birds of a feather flock together"

"You are judged by the company you keep."

Well, the first holds true for birds; different species usually don't fly in formation. But it doesn't always hold true for humans, all of whom ARE the same species (except perhaps for my ex-wife, Evil-X, who I suspect was spawned in the depths of hell itself)

But you are indeed judged by the company you keep, even if those judgements may be unfair.

I've had misgivings about Barack Obama since he first ran for Senate. His campaign headquarters was right next door to recycled Records on Adams street downtown here in Springfield. When I walked by his headquarters, I never saw anyone in there except black people.

I've walked past Republican HQs, even when they were running some redneck, and saw people of all races. I thought at the time Obama was racist, but after finding out his mother is white I decided that he must be pandering, like all politicians do.

But then I logged on to his church's web site. It was an "unashamedly black church" and it had the most racist, anti-American rant I'd ever seen.

The post was long gone before the so-called "Christian" pastor with his "unashamedly black church" hit the news. The first thing that struck me was that Christians don't go to black churches, and Christians don't go to white churches. Christians go to Christians churches.

Obama then quit the church he had gone to for twenty years, with its racist, white-hating preacher who had been Obama's close personal friend for political expediency. Score more negative points for him in my book.

Now another of his close personal friends is headed to prison.

Yes, I've known three people who went to prison, one a close personal friend and another the brother of an even closer persoanl friend, as well as my cousin who I haven't seen since I was a kid... no, make that four, Mike's cousin is in a Misouri prison for DUI (what George Bush paid a hundred dollar fine for).

But I'm not running for President, now am I? I'm just posting journals about drinking and hookers (and Obama and other nefarious things and people) on slashdot.

But I think there's little to fear that Illinois will lose its Senator. The nature of Republican politics makes it a near certainty that both the first black President and the first woman President (unless Bush and Cheney both die before January) will be Republican.

Neither Democratic front runners had a chance. I just hope McCain won't be as bad a President as I fear he will be.

I'm voting for Bob Barr, and I thank God he doesn't have a snowball in hell's chance of winning.

From the Chicago Tribune:

Sen. Barack Obama, calling the saga of convicted Chicago power broker Tony Rezko "a sad story,'' suggests that he has had plenty to say already about any support that he had drawn from Rezko in the past and is focused on the presidential campaign ahead.

"Obviously, he was a friend, he was a supporter, he raised money for my campaigns,'' Obama said in an interview with Tom Negovan of WGN in Chicago. "Now, he's a sad story of somebody who clearly crossed the line.''

Rezko, whose friendship and fundraising benefited the careers of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, Obama and others, was convicted Wednesday of using political clout to orchestrate millions of dollars in kickbacks. A federal jury found Rezko guilty on 16 of 24 counts in a trial that exposed an ingrained culture of corruption in Illinois government.

God help our nation whichever one of these corporate-owned power hungry men win.

cancel ×

20 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Wow (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 6 years ago | (#23685549)

McGrew, you're way out of line on this one. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's ignorance rather than out and out racism, but I'd advise you to retract this as that's certainly what it appears to be.

White Christians certainly do go to white churches, and black churches exist because blacks weren't welcome in those white churches until very recently (and still aren't in many). Do you really expect a religious tradition edging on half a millennium to up and disappear because a portion of white churches have, grudgingly, deigned to tolerate a few token black members in the last few decades?

Re:Wow (1)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23686409)

My church has black and white members, and probably a higher percentage of the congration is black than in my town's population. Racism has no place in Christianity. If I went into a church and saw only white faces I would be very suspect that something was amiss, unless I was visiting a community with very few black people.

Any church that wouldn't welcome blacks in it has something SERIOUSLY wrong with both its pastor and its congregation. You have to remember that Pat Robertson and his ilk have done more harm to Chriatianity than all the athiests in the world combined; he's not just a wolf in sheep's clothing, he's a wolf in shepherd's clothing.

The cure for racism is education. There is no more difference between me and a random black man than there is between me and a random white man. Christianity's very tenet is forgiveness. Don't judge me because someone of my skin color mistreated someone with a different skin color, especially if that bad treatment happened before I was even born.

Christianity doesn't have any tenets (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 6 years ago | (#23690587)

Though individual congregations might.

Pat Robertson and his ilk are just as 'true Christians' as you and yours. If you want to identify as Christian in a general sense, rather than a specific denomination, you'll have to accept that you're putting yourself in the same category as them. Even on a denominational level, you're almost certain to find similar people pretty much anywhere but the Unitarian Universalists. Maybe even there.

No one is judging you for things others have done. You don't seem to realize that the black church is an independent denomination with deeper roots than almost any other American tradition. Would you ask Protestants to rejoin the holy sea because Catholics no longer preach exclusively in Latin?

Re:Christianity doesn't have any tenets (1)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23712637)

Pat Robertson worships money and make no mistake about it. NEVER trust a "Christian" preacher wearuing a $5,000 suit.

A Christian preacher doesn't preach the polar opposite of what the Bible says Christ taught. Robertson does.

If a church is thought of as a "black church" because it's so deep in the ghetto that the only Christians for miles around are black (and the only white people around are hoodlums) it's still not a "black church". It's a Christian church that only blacks are attending.

Re:Christianity doesn't have any tenets (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 6 years ago | (#23713663)

Pat Robertson would probably say the same thing about your beliefs. Religion isn't an objective thing. Ultimately the Bible is just a very complicated Rorschach test; what you believe is more a reflection of yourself than what's actually in there. You pick and choose certain bits, and Robertson picks others.

You really don't seem to get what the black church is. They're not churches that just happen to have black members, it's an independent tradition. It's no more racist than the Church of England.

Re:Christianity doesn't have any tenets (1)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23728335)

You pick and choose certain bits, and Robertson picks others.

Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Period. When Jesus said leaves no wiggle room, no "well it's ok to assassinate a foreign leader because he's a commie."

Nope (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 6 years ago | (#23748835)

Christianity is based on lots of stuff, some of which are what is claimed to be his teachings by later scholars. There's a lot more than just wiggle room in there; you can find justification for any action you choose to take.

Re:Wow (1)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 6 years ago | (#23695053)

My church has black and white members

That's the kernel of your problem right there. Your experience is not other's, and to expect it is folly. Revel in the differences between us instead of fearing them.

Kinda surprised. After reading your JEs for a while, I expected a little more tolerance from you.

Re:Wow (1)

JDWTopGuy (209256) | more than 6 years ago | (#23686433)

WHBT or you're just missing the point.

Re:Wow (1)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23687189)

No troll, but it is entirely possible that I'm not thinking clearly. I've had a cold and fever most of the week.

Re:Wow (1)

JDWTopGuy (209256) | more than 6 years ago | (#23696903)

I meant the GGP post by Rix. IMO he's missing the point.

Sorry to hear about the cold. Is it as ridiculously hot in Springfield as it is here near Chicago? It's been in the high 80s to 90 here lately, I'm getting sick of it.

Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but..... (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 6 years ago | (#23688161)

I have a pretty hard time accepting some of this. Let me try and address a few things. Apologies in advance if I ramble:

When I walked by his headquarters, I never saw anyone in there except black people

I think you are reading too much into that. I volunteered with the Obama campaign for five days out in Ohio. We had a number of African-American volunteers. We also had white volunteers. I'm white -- the campaign coordinator for the office where I was sent was also white. So were almost all of the union guys that volunteered with us. On balance and going strictly from memory I'd say it was almost a 50/50 split. I obviously can't speak for that office that you walked past two years ago but I would seriously dispute the notion that only black people work with him.

But then I logged on to his church's web site. It was an "unashamedly black church" and it had the most racist, anti-American rant I'd ever seen.

What is wrong with an "unashamedly black church"? I lived in the South for a number of years and had the opportunity to attend services at a black church. I didn't see racism. I saw a lot of pride in the black culture but pride in your own culture does not make you a racist.

In any event, unless you think Obama shares those views who cares what his church stands for? Most Christian churches have at least one view that most people would find offensive. I find the Catholic Church view on birth control particularly disgusting -- they refuse to supply condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS -- I still voted for Kerry.

Answer this for me: Do you really think he shares those views? Every single thing that I've ever heard him say or write suggests otherwise.

Obama then quit the church he had gone to for twenty years, with its racist, white-hating preacher who had been Obama's close personal friend for political expediency. Score more negative points for him in my book.

So he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't? If he stayed in the church you'd be angry about that because it's a "racist" church. If he leaves it's for political expediency. And why limit your criticism to Senator Obama? He's not the first politician that had to distance himself from a former associate or friend.

Yes, I've known three people who went to prison, one a close personal friend and another the brother of an even closer persoanl friend, as well as my cousin who I haven't seen since I was a kid... no, make that four, Mike's cousin is in a Misouri prison for DUI (what George Bush paid a hundred dollar fine for).

But I'm not running for President, now am I?

And if you were, why should any of that be relevant? Do you think he was involved in anything with Rezko? Or is it just that you think he showed bad judgment associating with him? If that's the case then you'd have to disqualify virtually all of the 43 Presidents. Hell, even Washington misjudged someone [wikipedia.org] once upon a time.

Neither Democratic front runners had a chance. I just hope McCain won't be as bad a President as I fear he will be.

This is where I disagree with you strongly. Have you paid any attention to the mood in the country right now? The Democrats just pulled off wins in three Republican-leaning districts in special elections. 70% of this country wants us out of Iraq. McCain intends to stay there. Polling suggests that the Democrats are more trusted to handle the economy -- which is going to be the biggest issue in November (followed by Iraq).

None of that is to suggest that it will be easy -- Obama is going to have to work very hard. But if you look at the contrast between him and McCain (McCain's speech Tuesday fell flat, even Fox News said so.... they also praised Obama's) and some of the issues that McCain is staking his campaign on how can you honestly say that Obama doesn't have a chance?

I'm voting for Bob Barr, and I thank God he doesn't have a snowball in hell's chance of winning.

Hey I understand the appeal of the Libertarian Party, even if I personally disagree with most of their platform. And I won't even argue with you if you decide to vote against Obama. I'd only ask that you decide to vote against him because of the issues and not because of the FUD kicked up by the Hillary campaign or the FUD soon to be kicked up by the McCain campaign.

Re:Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but..... (1)

Slashdot Parent (995749) | more than 6 years ago | (#23710179)

I lived in the South for a number of years and had the opportunity to attend services at a black church. I didn't see racism.
Not all black churches are racist, but Trinity sure as hell is. I mean, c'mon. "The United States of White America"? "Whites invented AIDS to commit genocide against blacks"? Did you totally miss the whole Father Pflager rant? Did you look at the congregation's reaction when Pflager claimed that Clinton felt she was entitled to the nomination because she was white and Obama is black? They cheered in agreement!

It makes no difference what black church you attended. I'm glad the one you visited is not racist, but this isn't about you, is it? Obama's church is unabashedly racist.

Answer this for me: Do you really think he shares those views? Every single thing that I've ever heard him say or write suggests otherwise.
Well, Obama has already said that he shares Wright's views. Have you read Dreams From My Father? If not, read more and comment less.

So he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't? If he stayed in the church you'd be angry about that because it's a "racist" church. If he leaves it's for political expediency.
Again, he has already said that it's for political expediency. '"We don't want to have to answer for everything that's stated in a church," Obama told reporters in South Dakota.' [latimes.com] What more do you want?

The time to leave Trinity was 20 years ago. Before he poisoned his children with Pastor Wright's bilious racism.

The Democrats just pulled off wins in three Republican-leaning districts in special elections.
We'll see. Did any of the Democratic candidates have as much baggage as Senator Obama? I mean, for any person who has any proclivity whatsoever to vote Republican, they are going to have little difficulty distinguishing between the guy who fought and endured torture in service to his country, and the guy who stood up with his family and cheered every time Pastor Wright screamed "God damn America!" You may disagree with my characterization, but you only get one vote. To moderate Republicans, this is clear as day.

Also, realize that Obama's record is going to be a liability for him. He claims to be the candidate who can reach across party lines, but his 95.5% liberal voting record betrays the truth. Someone ought to compile a list of bills that feature the names "McCain" and a Democrat, and a list of bills that feature the names of "Obama" and a Republican. That would be enlightening.

I'd only ask that you decide to vote against him because of the issues and not because of the FUD kicked up by the Hillary campaign or the FUD soon to be kicked up by the McCain campaign.
I've decided my vote based on the FUD that came straight from Obama's mouth. Obama doesn't need anyone else to create FUD when he does such a good job of it every time he picks up a pen.

Re:Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but..... (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 6 years ago | (#23712227)

"Whites invented AIDS to commit genocide against blacks"

You might want to consider some history [wikipedia.org] before you dismiss that specific comment as a mere racist rant. I don't believe in Wright's theories about AIDS but given the history of Tuskegee I actually found his opinions/beliefs on this subject to be understandable. It was probably the most understandable of all of his rants to those that have studied history.

Did you look at the congregation's reaction when Pflager claimed that Clinton felt she was entitled to the nomination because she was white and Obama is black? They cheered in agreement!

Hillary did act like she was entitled to the nomination. I don't think she felt that way because she was white but if you've been following the primaries you can't honestly say that she didn't think she was entitled to the nomination. She treated the whole primary process like a coronation instead of an election -- writing off whole states where Obama ran up his lead because she thought it would be over with on Super Tuesday.

After she realized she had a fight on her hands she proceeded to spend two months stirring up controversy about Trinity. She boiled 20-25 years of history down to a few soundbites that religious figures on both sides of the political spectrum said were an unfair representation of both Rev. Wright and his church. And you are surprised that the congregation loudly cheered someone who was mocking her?

Well, Obama has already said that he shares Wright's views

He's since said that he rejects and denounces those views that caused this controversy. Obviously that's not good enough for you but don't say that he said he shares them and not tell the rest of the story. What is this, Fox News?

Also, realize that Obama's record is going to be a liability for him. He claims to be the candidate who can reach across party lines, but his 95.5% liberal voting record betrays the truth

And McCain's record of supporting the war that 70% of the country opposes isn't going to be a liability for him? McCain has at least as tough of a task as Obama does -- the conservative wing of the party dislikes him. If he swings to the center he alienates them -- if he swings to the right he has to associate with GWB and his 30% approval rating. Both of them have their work cut out for them and much to overcome if they are going to win in November.

Re:Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but..... (1)

Slashdot Parent (995749) | more than 6 years ago | (#23712919)

You might want to consider some history before you dismiss that specific comment as a mere racist rant.
I am well aware of the Tuskegee Study, and have considered it. Click your own link, and you will find that the Tuskegee study was ended 36 years ago because of the public outcry that ensued after the existence of the study was published to a national audience in the New York Times.

In other words, the public did not tolerate such wanton disregard for human life even back then. So could you please explain to me how we get from a despicable study that ended 36 years ago because the public did not tolerate it, to a 2008 rant by Jeremiah Wright in front of the National Press Club in which Wright reaffirmed his preposterous belief that the US Government invented the HIV virus to commit genocide against African Americans?

It was probably the most understandable of all of his rants to those that have studied history.
Well, you can hurl insults at me all day long if that will make you feel superior, but Wright's belief (not a rant! He really believes this stuff, and reaffirmed it in front of a national audience!) is not understandable at all. I also think you'll find that Pastor Wright would prefer not to be explained away in such a fashion. Why else would he have so damaged Senator Obama's campaign by going on a national media tour?

Next, I suppose you'll have me believe that I'm bitter because I disagree with you.

Hillary did act like she was entitled to the nomination. I don't think she felt that way because she was white but if you've been following the primaries you can't honestly say that she didn't think she was entitled to the nomination.
Of course Hillary acted as though she was entitled to the nomination, and no one who was paying attention would object to that claim. How is that relevant to the discussion in any way, shape, or form?

Had Father Pflager merely claimed that Clinton felt entitled to the nomination, that would be in no way objectionable. However, his claim that Clinton felt entitled to the nomination because she was white and Obama was black was objectionable, racist, incorrect, and extremely revealing. Revealing about what goes on in Trinity United, and revealing about Senator Obama, a 20 year member. I'm not sure why you chose to ignore the part in bold above. Probably because it would have made your stance indefensible.

She boiled 20-25 years of history down to a few soundbites that religious figures on both sides of the political spectrum said were an unfair representation of both Rev. Wright and his church. And you are surprised that the congregation loudly cheered someone who was mocking her?
Well, if you'll watch the other radioactive soundbites, you'll see that the crowd cheered just as fanatically when Pastor Wright screamed, "God damn America," so don't try to pull a fast one on me.

He's since said that he rejects and denounces those views that caused this controversy. Obviously that's not good enough for you but don't say that he said he shares them and not tell the rest of the story. What is this, Fox News?
Heh. Am I to be surprised that he new denounces those views? After all, the man is running for President. What choice does he have?

But why should I believe Senator Obama? He left Trinity for political expediency, his speeches and position papers promise everything to everyone (could he really accomplish even 5% of his campaign promises? Read his Blueprint for Change and you tell me), and now he's recanting anything that anyone might find objectionable. Well, duh. Not like he can get elected otherwise.

By the way, this is what I love about the ultra-left wingers. I make a thoughtful point about what Obama wrote in his book, and what is your response? To accuse me of being an anchor on Fox News. Cute, but unconvincing.

McCain has at least as tough of a task as Obama does -- the conservative wing of the party dislikes him. If he swings to the center he alienates them -- if he swings to the right he has to associate with GWB and his 30% approval rating.
Well, the Democratic congress has an 18.7% approval rating, but don't let the facts get in the way of your conclusions.

Obama is +3 points on McCain right now. Senator Clinton already exposed a few of Obama's Achilles Heels. No one knows what the outcome will be this November, but to assert that McCain is at a strong disadvantage is not supported by the facts that you've presented.

Re:Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but..... (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 6 years ago | (#23713797)

Well, you can hurl insults at me all day long if that will make you feel superior

And where exactly did I 'hurl' insults at you? You quoted this remark of mine:

It was probably the most understandable of all of his rants to those that have studied history.

If you figured that for an insult then you are just looking to be offended. No insult was intended.

Next, I suppose you'll have me believe that I'm bitter because I disagree with you.

Wow, you managed to bring up a completely unrelated comment to the discussion at hand to make me look bad and get a free zing at Obama's expense. Well done.

Had Father Pflager merely claimed that Clinton felt entitled to the nomination, that would be in no way objectionable. However, his claim that Clinton felt entitled to the nomination because she was white and Obama was black was objectionable, racist, incorrect, and extremely revealing. Revealing about what goes on in Trinity United, and revealing about Senator Obama, a 20 year member. I'm not sure why you chose to ignore the part in bold above. Probably because it would have made your stance indefensible.

Whatever, I'm not going to argue the point. We will clearly never see eye to eye on this. Feel free to draw your own conclusions but I find it pretty telling that this is the best that the Republicans can offer. I guess trying to sell a war that 70% of the country is opposed to doesn't garner you as many votes as repaying clips of Wright over and over again.

his speeches and position papers promise everything to everyone (could he really accomplish even 5% of his campaign promises?

You mean like McCain's statement of "I'll find you half a billion tomorrow" when asked how he would pay for his promises? Every single candidate is making promises that are going to be hard to keep. The only reason I pulled out the 'Fox News' remark is because you are pointing the finger at Obama while giving McCain a free pass for pulling the same shit.

By the way, this is what I love about the ultra-left wingers

I'm not an 'ultra-left winger' by American standards, let alone global ones. Read some of my previous posts if you require further evidence.

but to assert that McCain is at a strong disadvantage is not supported by the facts that you've presented.

I didn't say "strong disadvantage". I said he has at least as tough of a task as Senator Obama does. But that's ok -- feel free to put words into my mouth to support your arguments. You want facts? How about these:

1) McCain is alienated from the base of his party
2) McCain will never come close to raising the amount of money that Obama will.
3) McCain is tied to a war that 70% of the country opposes.
4) McCain is linked (to varying degrees, depending on the issue at hand) to a massively unpopular President.
5) McCain's own party seems fairly pessimistic about their chances in November.

If you don't think the combination of all of those things (and others) means that McCain has his work cut out for him then you are so clearly biased as to make further discussions pointless. I have no idea which one of them will win -- but I stand by my statement that both of them have a tough task ahead and that anyone on either side who thinks it's going to be easy is in for a rude surprise.

Re:Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but..... (1)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 6 years ago | (#23710989)

On balance and going strictly from memory I'd say it was almost a 50/50 split.

Then he's progressing from his days campaigning for Senate. I thought "this guy's pandering." But 50/50 split between white/black still isn't very good, considering that the US Census Bureau says [census.gov] that 12.9% of the population is black.

If I have a factory with 100 employees and only four of them are black, I'm not only going to be called racist but I'll be sued for disscrimination. If I have a factory with 100 employees and half of them are black, I'll still likely be sued for discrimination (but the one suing is likelyto be white in that case).

I want a candidate that can figure this out for himself. You don't see half of Durbin's staff being black, do you?

What is wrong with an "unashamedly black church"?

I thought I covered this pretty well. There should be no white or black churches; not Christian churches, anyway. I certainly wouldn't attend a church where blacks weren't welcomed with open arms. The concept of racism, of dividing people by race, is decidedly unChristian.

I saw a lot of pride in the black culture

One should not be ashamed of one's culture, but pride is unChristian as well. Pride has no place in a Christian church. Christianity is about humility, the absolute polar opposite of pride. The Christian knows that he is completely powerless without God, and that pride is next to sacrelidge.

Now don't get me wrong - your pride in your culture fits secular society, but has no place in church.

In any event, unless you think Obama shares those views who cares what his church stands for?

If you believe in eating ham sandwiches you don't belong in a Muslim or Jewish church. If you don't believe that birth control is a sin, the Catholic church is not for you. Why would you attend a church that diddn't match your religious views?

If he stayed in the church you'd be angry about that because it's a "racist" church. If he leaves it's for political expediency.

Leaving was the right thing to do. He was just twenty years too late.

"But I'm not running for President, now am I?" And if you were, why should any of that be relevant?

Because one is judged by the company he keeps. If I were to run for political office, don't you think my opponents would use the fact that I've known prisoners against me?

Do you think he was involved in anything with Rezko?

See, that's the number one reason I don't like Obama - he's from Illinois, my state. Politics is incredibly sleazy here. The last Democratic Governor went to prison after he was beaten by a Republican, and the last Republican Governor went to prison after the current Demnocratic Governor took office.

Rezko is the poster boy for Illinois politics. He's tainted both parties here. In Illinois we're so patriotic that even being dead doesn't keep you from voting.

You can't wade in a cesspool and not expect to stink afterwards.

If that's the case then you'd have to disqualify virtually all of the 43 Presidents.

I've only actually voted FOR one President in my life; that was Clinton when he ran for re-election. Every other election I voted AGAINST candidates; "the lesser of two evils". Should Obama win this election and prove to be a good President, then he will be the second President I will have voted for rather than holding my nose and choosing the lesser of three or four evils.

If I absolutely HAD to vote for either McCain or Obama I'm not really sure which one I'd choose. I don't like either of them. I don't like Barr either; he's not really a libertarian, he's a Republican running as a Libertarian. I'm voting for him as a protest against the corporate-funded republicans and Democrats. Again, Rezko is connected to both parties in Illinois. They're all sleazy politicians.

Re:Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but..... (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 6 years ago | (#23712497)

But 50/50 split between white/black still isn't very good, considering that the US Census Bureau says [census.gov] that 12.9% of the population is black.

So we should have started turning away African-American volunteers after they made up 12.9% of our total? "I'm sorry, you can't volunteer with us today, we've already met our quota of black people. Know any whites or asians who are interested?"

I'm sorry but I just can't accept your complaints on this issue. I worked with his campaign. There was no hidden agenda or secret plot to staff all of the offices with black people. We recruited what volunteers we could at the various campaign events (speeches, ropelines, etc, etc) and through word-of-mouth. No one was turned away. ANYONE who was willing to help was put to work.

I thought I covered this pretty well. There should be no white or black churches; not Christian churches, anyway. I certainly wouldn't attend a church where blacks weren't welcomed with open arms. The concept of racism, of dividing people by race, is decidedly unChristian.

Well, what "should be" and that reality is are two different things. The black church evolved out of slavery and Jim Crow. It now has it's own unique identity that isn't easily merged back into the larger Christian community. And why is that even a bad thing? In my life I've been in a Polish Church, several Italian Churches, a Greek orthodox church and the aforementioned African-American church. All of them are obviously focused on the culture and community that they serve but none of them would turn you away if you didn't belong to that culture and/or community. So what's the problem?

One should not be ashamed of one's culture, but pride is unChristian as well. Pride has no place in a Christian church. Christianity is about humility, the absolute polar opposite of pride. The Christian knows that he is completely powerless without God, and that pride is next to sacrelidge.

Pride might be "unchristian" (whatever that means) but Christianity isn't about being perfect -- it's more about atonement than anything else. A true Christian strives to be humble and to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ but realizes that he will make mistakes from time to time and that he can ask for forgiveness for his sins.

If you don't believe that birth control is a sin, the Catholic church is not for you

You might want to tell that to the millions of Catholics (including my girlfriend) that use birth control. I'm not a particularly religious person myself but I don't buy into this theory that you must leave your church if you don't agree with 100% of what the church and/or pastor says. If that was the case we'd have a whole lot of really small churches.

If I were to run for political office, don't you think my opponents would use the fact that I've known prisoners against me?

I'm sure they would, that doesn't make it right nor does it mean that I'd base my vote off the FUD put out by your opponents.

Don't judge a man by his vicar (1)

Marcion (876801) | more than 6 years ago | (#23697313)

Like you, and lots of people on ./ I am Libertarian also. I am also British so don't get to vote, but maybe we should as my country just does whatever your country tells us to.

However, I don't really judge people on what their vicars come out with. Most priests are all a bit nuts in some way or another, but they don't hold the real power in the church, there is normally a committee of lay people who watch the vicars come and go.

Wow. (1)

Ykant (318168) | more than 6 years ago | (#23709167)

This is actually an interesting discussion with intelligent, thought-out responses. I mean, it's actually a *discussion*. This stuff still happens on the net? My mind is blown.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>