sm62704's Journal: Obama: Judged by the company he has kept

I've chastised folks for blindly following tired cliches ("money doesn't grow on trees"? Tell that to an orchard owner) but here are two I'm going to trot out here, neither one as universal as any of the others.

"Birds of a feather flock together"

"You are judged by the company you keep."

Well, the first holds true for birds; different species usually don't fly in formation. But it doesn't always hold true for humans, all of whom ARE the same species (except perhaps for my ex-wife, Evil-X, who I suspect was spawned in the depths of hell itself)

But you are indeed judged by the company you keep, even if those judgements may be unfair.

I've had misgivings about Barack Obama since he first ran for Senate. His campaign headquarters was right next door to recycled Records on Adams street downtown here in Springfield. When I walked by his headquarters, I never saw anyone in there except black people.

I've walked past Republican HQs, even when they were running some redneck, and saw people of all races. I thought at the time Obama was racist, but after finding out his mother is white I decided that he must be pandering, like all politicians do.

But then I logged on to his church's web site. It was an "unashamedly black church" and it had the most racist, anti-American rant I'd ever seen.

The post was long gone before the so-called "Christian" pastor with his "unashamedly black church" hit the news. The first thing that struck me was that Christians don't go to black churches, and Christians don't go to white churches. Christians go to Christians churches.

Obama then quit the church he had gone to for twenty years, with its racist, white-hating preacher who had been Obama's close personal friend for political expediency. Score more negative points for him in my book.

Now another of his close personal friends is headed to prison.

Yes, I've known three people who went to prison, one a close personal friend and another the brother of an even closer persoanl friend, as well as my cousin who I haven't seen since I was a kid... no, make that four, Mike's cousin is in a Misouri prison for DUI (what George Bush paid a hundred dollar fine for).

But I'm not running for President, now am I? I'm just posting journals about drinking and hookers (and Obama and other nefarious things and people) on slashdot.

But I think there's little to fear that Illinois will lose its Senator. The nature of Republican politics makes it a near certainty that both the first black President and the first woman President (unless Bush and Cheney both die before January) will be Republican.

Neither Democratic front runners had a chance. I just hope McCain won't be as bad a President as I fear he will be.

I'm voting for Bob Barr, and I thank God he doesn't have a snowball in hell's chance of winning.

From the Chicago Tribune:

Sen. Barack Obama, calling the saga of convicted Chicago power broker Tony Rezko "a sad story,'' suggests that he has had plenty to say already about any support that he had drawn from Rezko in the past and is focused on the presidential campaign ahead.

"Obviously, he was a friend, he was a supporter, he raised money for my campaigns,'' Obama said in an interview with Tom Negovan of WGN in Chicago. "Now, he's a sad story of somebody who clearly crossed the line.''

Rezko, whose friendship and fundraising benefited the careers of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, Obama and others, was convicted Wednesday of using political clout to orchestrate millions of dollars in kickbacks. A federal jury found Rezko guilty on 16 of 24 counts in a trial that exposed an ingrained culture of corruption in Illinois government.

God help our nation whichever one of these corporate-owned power hungry men win.

Wow

[Rix]

McGrew, you're way out of line on this one. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's ignorance rather than out and out racism, but I'd advise you to retract this as that's certainly what it appears to be.

White Christians certainly do go to white churches, and black churches exist because blacks weren't welcome in those white churches until very recently (and still aren't in many). Do you really expect a religious tradition edging on half a millennium to up and disappear because a portion of wh

Re:

[sm62704]

My church has black and white members, and probably a higher percentage of the congration is black than in my town's population. Racism has no place in Christianity. If I went into a church and saw only white faces I would be very suspect that something was amiss, unless I was visiting a community with very few black people.

Any church that wouldn't welcome blacks in it has something SERIOUSLY wrong with both its pastor and its congregation. You have to remember that Pat Robertson and his ilk have done more

Christianity doesn't have any tenets

[Rix]

Though individual congregations might.

Pat Robertson and his ilk are just as 'true Christians' as you and yours. If you want to identify as Christian in a general sense, rather than a specific denomination, you'll have to accept that you're putting yourself in the same category as them. Even on a denominational level, you're almost certain to find similar people pretty much anywhere but the Unitarian Universalists. Maybe even there.

No one is judging you for things others have done. You don't seem to realize

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[sm62704]

Pat Robertson worships money and make no mistake about it. NEVER trust a "Christian" preacher wearuing a $5,000 suit.

A Christian preacher doesn't preach the polar opposite of what the Bible says Christ taught. Robertson does.

If a church is thought of as a "black church" because it's so deep in the ghetto that the only Christians for miles around are black (and the only white people around are hoodlums) it's still not a "black church". It's a Christian church that only blacks are attending.

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[Rix]

Pat Robertson would probably say the same thing about your beliefs. Religion isn't an objective thing. Ultimately the Bible is just a very complicated Rorschach test; what you believe is more a reflection of yourself than what's actually in there. You pick and choose certain bits, and Robertson picks others.

You really don't seem to get what the black church is. They're not churches that just happen to have black members, it's an independent tradition. It's no more racist than the Church of England.

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[sm62704]

You pick and choose certain bits, and Robertson picks others.

Christianity is based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Period. When Jesus said leaves no wiggle room, no "well it's ok to assassinate a foreign leader because he's a commie."

Nope

[Rix]

Christianity is based on lots of stuff, some of which are what is claimed to be his teachings by later scholars. There's a lot more than just wiggle room in there; you can find justification for any action you choose to take.

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[Captain Splendid]

My church has black and white members

That's the kernel of your problem right there. Your experience is not other's, and to expect it is folly. Revel in the differences between us instead of fearing them.

Kinda surprised. After reading your JEs for a while, I expected a little more tolerance from you.

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[JDWTopGuy]

WHBT or you're just missing the point.

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[sm62704]

No troll, but it is entirely possible that I'm not thinking clearly. I've had a cold and fever most of the week.

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[JDWTopGuy]

I meant the GGP post by Rix. IMO he's missing the point.

Sorry to hear about the cold. Is it as ridiculously hot in Springfield as it is here near Chicago? It's been in the high 80s to 90 here lately, I'm getting sick of it.

Dude, I know I'm the Obama groupie, but.....

[Shakrai]

I have a pretty hard time accepting some of this. Let me try and address a few things. Apologies in advance if I ramble:

When I walked by his headquarters, I never saw anyone in there except black people

I think you are reading too much into that. I volunteered with the Obama campaign for five days out in Ohio. We had a number of African-American volunteers. We also had white volunteers. I'm white -- the campaign coordinator for the office where I was sent was also white. So were almost all of the union guys that volunteered with us. On balance and going strictly from memory I'

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[Slashdot Parent]

I lived in the South for a number of years and had the opportunity to attend services at a black church. I didn't see racism.

Not all black churches are racist, but Trinity sure as hell is. I mean, c'mon. "The United States of White America"? "Whites invented AIDS to commit genocide against blacks"? Did you totally miss the whole Father Pflager rant? Did you look at the congregation's reaction when Pflager claimed that Clinton felt she was entitled to the nomination because she was white and Obama is black? They cheered in agreement!

It makes no difference what black church you attended. I'm glad the one you visited is not

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[Shakrai]

"Whites invented AIDS to commit genocide against blacks"

You might want to consider some history [wikipedia.org] before you dismiss that specific comment as a mere racist rant. I don't believe in Wright's theories about AIDS but given the history of Tuskegee I actually found his opinions/beliefs on this subject to be understandable. It was probably the most understandable of all of his rants to those that have studied history.

Did you look at the congregation's reaction when Pflager claimed that Clinton felt she was entitled to the nomination because she was white and Obama is black? They cheered in agreement!

Hillary did act like she was entitled to the nomination. I don't think she felt that way because she was white but if you've been following the p

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[Slashdot Parent]

You might want to consider some history before you dismiss that specific comment as a mere racist rant.

I am well aware of the Tuskegee Study, and have considered it. Click your own link, and you will find that the Tuskegee study was ended 36 years ago because of the public outcry that ensued after the existence of the study was published to a national audience in the New York Times.

In other words, the public did not tolerate such wanton disregard for human life even back then. So could you please explain to me how we get from a despicable study that ended 36 years ago because the public did not tolerate i

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[Shakrai]

Well, you can hurl insults at me all day long if that will make you feel superior

And where exactly did I 'hurl' insults at you? You quoted this remark of mine:

It was probably the most understandable of all of his rants to those that have studied history.

If you figured that for an insult then you are just looking to be offended. No insult was intended.

Next, I suppose you'll have me believe that I'm bitter because I disagree with you.

Wow, you managed to bring up a completely unrelated comment to the discussion at hand to make me look bad and get a free zing at Obama's expense. Well done.

Had Father Pflager merely claimed that Clinton felt entitled to the nomination, that would be in no way objectionable. However, his claim that Clinton felt entitled to the nomination because she was white and Obama was black was objectionable, racist, incorrect, and extremely revealing. Revealing about what goes on in Trinity United, and revealing about Senator Obama, a 20 year member. I'm not sure why you chose to ignore the part in bold above. Probably because it would have made your stance indefensible.

Whatever, I'm not going to argue the point. We will clearly never see eye to eye on this. Feel free to draw your own conclusions but I find it pretty telling t

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[sm62704]

On balance and going strictly from memory I'd say it was almost a 50/50 split.

Then he's progressing from his days campaigning for Senate. I thought "this guy's pandering." But 50/50 split between white/black still isn't very good, considering that the US Census Bureau says [census.gov] that 12.9% of the population is black.

If I have a factory with 100 employees and only four of them are black, I'm not only going to be called racist but I'll be sued for disscrimination. If I have a factory with 100 employees and half of

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[Shakrai]

But 50/50 split between white/black still isn't very good, considering that the US Census Bureau says [census.gov] that 12.9% of the population is black.

So we should have started turning away African-American volunteers after they made up 12.9% of our total? "I'm sorry, you can't volunteer with us today, we've already met our quota of black people. Know any whites or asians who are interested?"

I'm sorry but I just can't accept your complaints on this issue. I worked with his campaign. There was no hidden agenda or secret plot to staff all of the offices with black people. We recruited what volunteers we could at the various campaign events (speeche

Don't judge a man by his vicar

[Marcion]

Like you, and lots of people on ./ I am Libertarian also. I am also British so don't get to vote, but maybe we should as my country just does whatever your country tells us to.

However, I don't really judge people on what their vicars come out with. Most priests are all a bit nuts in some way or another, but they don't hold the real power in the church, there is normally a committee of lay people who watch the vicars come and go.

Wow.

[Ykant]

This is actually an interesting discussion with intelligent, thought-out responses. I mean, it's actually a *discussion*. This stuff still happens on the net? My mind is blown.