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Journal snowgirl's Journal: Trolls and Flamebait... for being a girl upset at rape. 58

Journal by snowgirl

Of course... I make a few comments in an essay that attempts to say that the social embarrassment of an individual accused of sexual assault is "vastly greater" than the social embarrassment of the victim being identified.

I objected to this because I have been the victim of sexual assault. Oddly enough, when I comment about that, it's marked as a troll or flamebait.

Not like I should be surprised with how machismo and male-dominated the geek world is. I hope the people modding me down realize that they're being just as sexist as the author, and that they're damaging the credibility of men among women.

This is one of the big reasons why I've wanted to get out of the geek world in my work life. I don't want to deal with this chauvinistic bullshit in the workplace , where I spent 8 hours of my day... at least. Not to mention, there's the expectation that I will spend 60-80 hours a week at work. The whole IT industry is so sexist it disgusts me.

Honestly, I can't believe how stupid SOME men are. Not all of them, I've met quite a few really nice cool caring and understanding guys... however... jesus christ... modding down a girl as a troll because she objects to being told that the social embarrassment of her accused sexual assaulter outweighs her suffering?

Meh, I'm done... I'm just really sick and tired of how sexist men are... it's so frustrating.

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Trolls and Flamebait... for being a girl upset at rape. More

Trolls and Flamebait... for being a girl upset at rape.

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  • Remember, though, that sexism is still heavily institutionalized. It's a poor excuse, I know, but until the framework gets changed, the system will keep pumping out clueless idiots.

    Also, as you yourself have admitted, it's most, not all, men. Better to dwell on the enlightened ones (should you be lucky to know any) and forget the others.

  • I think it's asshatism. There is a certain segment of /. that will mod down any comment they disagree with, particularly if the person who made the comment is someone they don't like to begin with (for a hint of who it may be, check your "freaks" list).

    I bitched about the very same thing in my last journal entry [slashdot.org]. It wasn't my only journal entr dealing with that either.

    You're not alone, and I don't think your sex has anything to do with it.

    But if the comment that got modded down was this one [slashdot.org] (you didn't spec

  • First and foremost, your statements being marked "troll" was a flagrant abuse of the "troll" moderation, and should never have been done.

    Most likely, the moderators thought that you were trying to trivialize the people who are falsely accused of rape. Both rape victims and those falsely accused of rape are innocent, and those falsely accused of rape are given heavy social penalties and often physically assaulted and emotionally estranged. Both being raped and being falsely accused of rape are undue burdens

    • As noted still, and in a few comments already noted, we run a society with public information about crimes. I'm sorry that some men are falsely accused of rape, however there are a lot of men who are accused of rape to be let off the hook for some reason or another.

      Either way, in all cases, alleged criminals should be identified and their crime as well (ok, you got me, juveniles shouldn't be named.). This is because we don't run a secret police system, or a secret judicial system. Juveniles are an except

      • Media publishing is different from telling people. I am pretty sure the question was whether it is moral to print the names in newspapers. Informing those who the accused consents to inform is fine by me. No one advocates stealing people away at night, but is it necessary for newspapers to print the names of the accused?

        • Media publishing is different from telling people. I am pretty sure the question was whether it is moral to print the names in newspapers. Informing those who the accused consents to inform is fine by me. No one advocates stealing people away at night, but is it necessary for newspapers to print the names of the accused?

          In a democracy... yes.

          Think about it. We knew about Hans Reiser before he admitted to knowing where his wife was buried. And we knew about OJ before he was tried, and found innocent.

          Their potential embarrassment for being accused of murder certainly outweighs those accused of sexual assault, right?

          • In our society, that's actually questionable. Which personally I find a bit fucked up, I mean, I've never been sexually assaulted, but if you could have been murdered instead, would you choose that?

            This is definitely something we have to get better at. We have to drill it into women's heads that even your normal partner can rape you, that anytime sex happens without consent it is rape, and that there is nothing to be ashamed about reporting it. And we have to get better at proving it. But it's still unacce

            • In our society, that's actually questionable. Which personally I find a bit fucked up, I mean, I've never been sexually assaulted, but if you could have been murdered instead, would you choose that?

              For about a week AT LEAST... yeah, I would have chosen murder over rape. Now, I've mostly moved on.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by mcgrew ( 92797 ) *

              Everybody has to die, but not everybody has to be raped. In that sense, yes, rape is worse than murder.

  • I would have welcomed your argument if it weren't for your disclosure of your sexual assault. There is a BIG difference between consent and non-consent, and your hiding behind the "law is the law" tirade is a thinly veiled man-hating rant.

    Look, I understand that you revealed that you were sexually assaulted, and rape is a most heinous crime...but your backhanded appealing to emotion and desire for sympathy(not to mention a dash of playing the professional victim with your wide-reaching "men are pigs" st

    • I would have welcomed your argument if it weren't for your disclosure of your sexual assault. There is a BIG difference between consent and non-consent, and your hiding behind the "law is the law" tirade is a thinly veiled man-hating rant.

      My statement wasn't that the guy was guilty of forceful rape... but rather that he was guilty of statutory rape. Statutory rape is statutory rape even if the minor is consenting. That's what makes statutory rape different from forceful rape.

      Look, I understand that you revealed that you were sexually assaulted, and rape is a most heinous crime...but your backhanded appealing to emotion and desire for sympathy(not to mention a dash of playing the professional victim with your wide-reaching "men are pigs" statements) is not a credible argument tactic. I too have known victims of sexual assault. Some cope better than others, but you only perpetuate the bad stereotype of the foaming-at-the mouth soon-to-become-a-lesbian Tori-Amos-listening man hater.

      And you're supposed to help anything by flying off the handle and accusing me of being a misandronist future-lesbian?

      As I stated before, being drugged or violently held down is MUCH different than a consensual relationship and to dismiss your thinly-veiled inability to cope as "it is what it is" is madness. As I have stated before, sexual assault is bad, but people can and do get over it.

      I do agree, being drugged or violently held down is much different than a consensual relationship. However, even a consensual relationship between a mi

    • Your lack of either tact or thoughtfulness will likely have at most zero effect on snowgirl, and at most will likely reinforce her victimization beliefs.

  • There are a fair number of people on Slashdot who take advantage of the effective anonymity to indulge in antisocial behavior. I'm not sure that the label of "sexism" really suffices to characterize what was going it. Like sexual assault, it is an attempt to exercise power over another person - and while the label of "sexism" does apply, I do not think that it is sufficiently pejorative to describe the acts.

    It's a characteristic of immaturity that actions are restrained only by fear of consequences. It's

    • Oh, no, I'm not done with slashdot, lol. I'm just done with that particular article and trying to argue anything with idiot "sexists".

      I'll start working on some more JEs eventually... not like I have much else to do, and I've been thinking a lot about a lot of topics to cover.

      • Good. I haven't been posting much these days except poetry, but there are some things that I want to write. Sometimes one has to wait for the convergence of opportunity and motivation.

      • So therefore everyone else must pay?...
        No... not everyone. Just those accused of rape. Tada...

        There we go...
        You may not be aware of how nasty that at least sounds. If you are, then you have made a conscious choice to put yourself on the fringe. As I've stated before "Weltanschauung" is very important in determining the outcome of not only an argument, but a person's life. If you want to be taken seriously then you have to stop antagonizing those you wish to persuade. (And yes, anti-Vista Trolls are just as bad as any other political Troll).

        My last two cents, best regards,

        UTW

        • Seems as if I replied to the wrong post. At any rate, it should be easy enough to determine the post I was replying to (through the quote).

          - UTW

  • Part of it is just internetfuckheadism.

    Part of it is a bunch of sexually frustrated geek types taking out their frustration on handy females.

    The rest of it is just typical egocentrism: the typical male isn't likely to be a victim of sexual assault, so they identify more with being misidentified as a sexual assaulter than they do with being identified as a victim of sexual assault.

    Being convicted in the court of public opinion is ugly. Society rightly tries to ostracize people who commit those crimes, but so

  • Neither the fact that you don't have a Y chromosome or the fact that someone else put part of their body inside of you without their consent gives you an "I win" card when trying to make a logical argument. I've never had any trouble not caring about anyone's gender while conversing or debating with them. Maybe its because I'm bisexual, I don't know; I simply don't understand how or why someone comes to the conclusion that they can make assumptions about an entire gender of people and then expect to devel
    • Which brings up a very good point, which is that sexism is not exclusively a male institution, it would never work like that, and women are generally as complicit in it as men are.

      Coming from a bi/pansexual perspective, I've got the (certainly unpopular) opinion that it doesn't really matter what bits you've got down there.

      The sad thing is, while it's definitely a sexist comment, from my observations (YMMV) it is true, if incomplete. Personally I'm really sick and tired of how sexist people are... it's v

    • Meh, I'm done... I'm just really sick and tired of how sexist men are... it's so frustrating.

      You go through a post saying how much sexism pisses you off, so in response, you post a sexist comment?

      Is it sexist to state that the prevalence of rapes happen from men upon women? Is it sexist to state that the majority of paraphilias occur in men? Is it sexist to state that women have a smaller brain mass then men in proportion to their body? Is it sexist to state that women have less opportunity to grow natural musculature than men?

      No, most rapes are done by men against women... and if you include that just the rapist is male, then you get up to darn near 90% if not higher.

      No, it's a medical fact that

      • Ignoring rapes committed by men against men and by women against men is horrible as well. Men are much less likely to admit sexual assault because while most of the time women will be received sympathetically if raped or assaulted, men will be, in the case of female on male rape, often be asked why they didn't like it, and male on male rape is humiliating in it's own right to our greatly heteronormative society. All instances of sexual assault should be met with the same degree of sympathy for the victim an

        • I definitely agree that all rapes should be treated equally. However, the vast majority are still done by men, and the vast majority of those are still done against women. You seem to not mention women raping other women as well. That happens, too.

          The point about paraphilia is that it's something that occurs much more commonly in men than in women... just like committing sexual assault. Stating that the majority of rapists are men, and the majority of people raped are women is not sexist... it's verifia

          • Yes, but what's wrong with paraphilias is the question.

            I admit my omission, my general point was about how men who are raped are loath to admit it, I am sure there are similar societal pressures against victims of woman on woman rape as well though. Rape is bad. The fact that we have to tell people this is indeed very frustrating.

            The point is we need not focus on just the majority, all rapes are bad, and all victims deserve sympathy.

            • Yes, but what's wrong with paraphilias is the question.

              I admit my omission, my general point was about how men who are raped are loath to admit it, I am sure there are similar societal pressures against victims of woman on woman rape as well though. Rape is bad. The fact that we have to tell people this is indeed very frustrating.

              The point is we need not focus on just the majority, all rapes are bad, and all victims deserve sympathy.

              Nothing is wrong with paraphilias, as long as they're not harmful to others or the person themselves. It just happens to be that it's vastly more prevalent in men.

              There are crime victim statistics that ask victims to report crimes anonymously. This is the best way that we have for collecting information on what real crimes were committed, regardless of
              if the person reported it or not.

              It's well known in psychology, women's studies, and sociology, that the most common forms of rape are in order: men against

  • I've read many of your posts and I generally agree with many of the moderations. Posting when you are feeling angry or vindictive won't help. Like female victims of domestic violence, you don't seem to realize that you are playing an active role in your victimization. Male-bashing will usually never garner sympathy, and excuses, no matter how they are portrayed, will never solve the problem.

    Most people don't prefer to listen to advice when it goes against their Weltanschauung. I hope you are not one of thos

  • Other than my other comment, I agree that there's much rampant sexism going on. And in IT, men are definitely responsible for most (as in 90%+) of it.

    It's not much comfort, but I can tell you that being a man and spending a year as the primary caretaker for a baby lands you in several situations of the opposite kind. You get automatically labeled, at best, a "helper".

    People mean it well, but frankly, I'm insulted when people compliment me how nice that I HELP my wife with the babies. The implied statement i

  • One in six women are not allowed to talk about rape on slashdot because that would mean they are ALLOWING IT TO DEFINE THEIR LIVES and PLAYING THE VICTIM and JUST UNABLE TO SUPPRESS THEIR HATRED FOR ALL MEN.

    </sarcasm>

    Does it make sense to tell women that have been raped that they should STFU about rape? No. But that is one of the reasons that most rapes are never reported. Here are some more:

    * Men won't believe you.
    * Men will accuse you of making it up even though the actual numbers of false ra

  • Depending on the context of your comments, they may have met the slashdot definitions of either troll or flamebait. Some people don't realize that slashdot has its own definitions for the moderations [slashdot.org]. Many people disagree with them, but they are what they are. In particular:
    • Flamebait -- Flamebait refers to comments whose sole purpose is to insult and enrage. If someone is not-so-subtly picking a fight (racial insults are a dead giveaway), it's Flamebait.
    • Troll -- A Troll is similar to Flamebait, but slig

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