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On life

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) writes | more than 5 years ago

User Journal 12

Comments from my last journal entry indicate I need to strongly define my definitions for the "self-evident rights" found in the Declaration of Independence. It appears I have different definitions than is common for America, though any Roman Catholic Scholar will find my definitions somewhat mirror those in Summa Theologicae by St. Thomas Aquinas.Comments from my last journal entry indicate I need to strongly define my definitions for the "self-evident rights" found in the Declaration of Independence. It appears I have different definitions than is common for America, though any Roman Catholic Scholar will find my definitions somewhat mirror those in Summa Theologicae by St. Thomas Aquinas.

I follow the modern Catholic definition of a right to life: The duty of government, the duty of doctors and nurses by the Geneva Declaration of Physicians, the duty of married heterosexual parents; is to protect residents in the country, home, and hospital; from loving natural conception until natural death. Prevention of conception, abortion, abnormal medical procedures such as "test tube babies", surrogate motherhood, war, murder, the death penalty, and euthanasia are all against this duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

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12 comments

A question (1)

StalinsNotDead (764374) | more than 5 years ago | (#26798099)

What's the issue with test tube babies or surrogate motherhood? Does this extend to artificial insemination?

I can understand the rationale behind the other items listed, but I can't really see the issue with test tube babies or surrogate motherhood. Is it something to do with "if you can't have a baby adopt one that already exists"?

Re:A question (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26798511)

What's the issue with test tube babies or surrogate motherhood? Does this extend to artificial insemination?
 
Yes. Perversions of the sex act away from the dual purposes of unification and procreation are anti-life.
 
  I can understand the rationale behind the other items listed, but I can't really see the issue with test tube babies or surrogate motherhood. Is it something to do with "if you can't have a baby adopt one that already exists"?
 
Yes, partially, and certainly so for those couples who are financially able to care for children but are infertile. But it's more to do with defining a "normal" natural-law based method of procreation; and then banning all other practices outside of that.
 
As I like to put it, hetro sex done properly takes someplace between 18 to 28 years, the shorter the better (but something obviously went wrong, either physiologically or sociologically, if it takes less than 18 years).

Re:A question (1)

StalinsNotDead (764374) | more than 5 years ago | (#26799241)

Presumably fertility drugs are out then? What about the various methods of timing for things like ovulation or temperature regulation to maximize the likelihodd of a pregnancy?

Re:A question (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26799387)

Presumably fertility drugs are out then? What about the various methods of timing for things like ovulation or temperature regulation to maximize the likelihodd of a pregnancy?
 
These would depend upon how they're used- the conception remains within the "natural" realm here, requiring male and female to come together "as one flesh". Of course, we're moving away from the strictly secular into the Biblical at this point, but then again, that's where the idea of heterosexual sex being natural law comes from.
 
I can see both arguments- my wife and I are almost to the point that fertility drugs and NFP have ruined the more unitive aspect of marital sex, due to our borderline fertility. Still, we've only been actively trying again for two years- and it took four the first time.
 
A even bigger argument in theological circles is the idea of "Only God has the power of Life and Death", in which case, one could make the argument that an infertile couple is *MEANT* to be infertile, despite the heartache that brings.

Re:A question (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 5 years ago | (#26808835)

A even bigger argument in theological circles is the idea of "Only God has the power of Life and Death", in which case, one could make the argument that an infertile couple is *MEANT* to be infertile, despite the heartache that brings.

I've always found that to be a big pile of horseshit. What's the point in God providing man with the intellect to develop IVF or the Large Hadron Collider if not to use them? Sure, you can carry my argument to absurdities and mention the atom bomb. But why not go in the opposite direction and live live the Amish or Mennonites?

At some point, you get into a grey area, and the more exceptions you create, the more your implications become the work of a gaggle of lawyers, rather than a code that a person can live by. Oh, so let's fall back on that old standby "ask a priest how to interpret this". Again, bullshit. I don't recall reading where Christ said "when in doubt, ask my posse or their descendants what to do."

Back to the drawing board with you.

Re:A question (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26812255)

I've always found that to be a big pile of horseshit. What's the point in God providing man with the intellect to develop IVF or the Large Hadron Collider if not to use them? Sure, you can carry my argument to absurdities and mention the atom bomb. But why not go in the opposite direction and live live the Amish or Mennonites?
 
Funny, had a dream about that last night- that I had gone home to my brother's farm and ended up invited to a "neighborhood get together" at the Apostolic Christian Church across the street- who had suddenly become more evangelical than they were when I was a kid- in the dream I ended up admitting to one of their missionaries that I had been rather prejudiced against them as a kid, but now see that they've got a few economic points in their favor. They're not exactly Mennonite or Amish- but they're close- they buy the latest farm equipment without radios or TV sets, and their only use of the Internet is filing their taxes. Oh yeah- and the majority of them live on farms that have been in the family for 6-8 generations.
 
  At some point, you get into a grey area, and the more exceptions you create, the more your implications become the work of a gaggle of lawyers, rather than a code that a person can live by. Oh, so let's fall back on that old standby "ask a priest how to interpret this". Again, bullshit. I don't recall reading where Christ said "when in doubt, ask my posse or their descendants what to do."
 
Yes, that's where it breaks down. Can't have 2000 years of "theological natural development" without a few arenas like this. Though I do remember a few passages where Christ said "ask my posse", or rather, told his posse that they'd always have the right answers.
 
But back to the original concept- one of the more common primitive definitions of a God is "one who has the power to give life and take life away". We've kind of gotten away from that in the modern world, but wouldn't it be interesting to bring it back as a discipline towards being humble?

Re:A question (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 5 years ago | (#26869601)

Isn't moving industrialized nations to an agrarian lifestyle a bit like squeezing the toothpaste back into the tube?

People of all sorts already have replaced God in their lives. Certainly the state has the power of life and death. The tree huggers love their Gaia. And where would the GOP be without the Ghost of Christmas Future, err, the Invisible Hand?

Glad I remembered that I posted that comment, as slashdot ate the reply notification. Only wish I could give it some reasoned reply.

Re:A question (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26876049)

Isn't moving industrialized nations to an agrarian lifestyle a bit like squeezing the toothpaste back into the tube?
 
Yeah, but it's going to have to happen anyway. It can happen in one of three ways: Unplanned, Planned, or Break out of the Restraints. Unfortunately that last we might not have the time left to develop.
 
  People of all sorts already have replaced God in their lives. Certainly the state has the power of life and death. The tree huggers love their Gaia. And where would the GOP be without the Ghost of Christmas Future, err, the Invisible Hand?
 
We'll all be forced into a change rather soon, sadly- we're running out of ways to sustain life without God. The Invisible Hand has already failed; Gaia hates people shipping stuff across the world, and even the State is beginning to lose control. Which leaves us with either an unplanned squeeze back into the tube (through famine or disease or both), a planned squeeze back into the tube (through greater birthrates to handle the famine & disease, combined with mixing local agrarian production with modern preservation techniques to enable hunting & gathering to work), or Escape from the System (Earth that Was dies, and we all go off to found new agrarian colonies elsewhere)

Re:A question (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 5 years ago | (#26879447)

Has a planned economy ever succeeded? Is there any reason to believe that the cost of galactic colonization will be less than the cost of fixing the Earth?

Re:A question (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26879633)

Has a planned economy ever succeeded?
 
Yes, they're usually called traditional economies though. Many have lasted for thousands or even tens of thousands of years. What hasn't worked is a LARGE economy, planned or unplanned; small economies almost always work due to homogenous culture.
 
  Is there any reason to believe that the cost of galactic colonization will be less than the cost of fixing the Earth?
 
Actually, quite possibly. Up to a dozen within 30 light years [google.com] that we might not need to terraform. That would be the difference- if we need to terraform, we might as well stay here and learn how do to it first.

Meaning of marriage (1)

Mer_panacea (1381133) | more than 5 years ago | (#26800809)

>Prevention of conception

We need to wait for a wife's menopause in order to enjoy our marital life fully, which usually comes more than twenty years after our first liason. Don't worry, life is long.

Meaning of marriage is first of all in social relations to have fun exclusively between two opposite sex. Raise their kids, live together economically come only after this first aim is achieved.

Re:Meaning of marriage (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26801113)

Only in an eastern perspective. The Western Perspective, due to a major influence of the Bubonic Plague on Western Philosophy/Theology, holds procreation above recreation.

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