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Firefox 3.5.5

zogger (617870) writes | more than 4 years ago

Mozilla 11

Really can't tell if it is just me and my hardware and connection, but Firefox 3.5.5 (ubuntu tweaked version) is just the biggest bucket of suck since..a long time ago, browser-wise. Freeking maddening. Even with no script and ad block plus, I keep getting this unable to actually finally load a page. It gets so far, you can *see* most of the page, then poof, that disappears to be replaced with a generic error page that says:

Really can't tell if it is just me and my hardware and connection, but Firefox 3.5.5 (ubuntu tweaked version) is just the biggest bucket of suck since..a long time ago, browser-wise. Freeking maddening. Even with no script and ad block plus, I keep getting this unable to actually finally load a page. It gets so far, you can *see* most of the page, then poof, that disappears to be replaced with a generic error page that says:

"The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading."

Ya but the blasted page was ALMOST all the way there, I could SEE the dang thing, ya sunnava...*&^%^^&*!11!!!! Just happened right now with a preview, had to "resend"....

Then if I get some tabs actually loaded to where that stupid *&&^% swirly thing in the tab button stops swirling around, and *dare* to have to allow some javascript to, ya know, actually be activated inside that site, whammo, freeze ville.

    If I look at the command "top", with just half a dozen tabs, no flash running, just a few of them with the main domain whitelisted in noscript so they at least are half way functional, I get a widely fluctuating CPU of between 15% and 100%, with FF right up there using it along with Xorg, they swap who's eating the most, and RAM usage with FF at like almost 300 megs *just sitting there*, doing nothing, like right now,(this is a brand new fresh instance of FF running to get the most conservative usage stats) and it shoots up fast with every new tab, with just one window total open. WTF?

    And at best, two-three times a day have to kill the thing when it freezes, if I forget to just quit and restart it, you can let it sit ten minutes and nothing happens, will not take any input, have to force-kill it. OK, I just watched it through one preview page load here, 39% CPU jump exactly, just to submit a web page form and reload this one tab. And I have scripting turned off here as well, using the slashdot older "low res" version in preferences. Dang scary to even contemplate if I tried to run any Flash pages or allow ads to try and load. Any Flash vids I want to see from yourboobtoob, I download/convert in the background, then watch them. My net connection is around 3-4 times better than dialup at the best, that's it. Not broadband, but not dialup either. (half price of having a landline and a dialup account, that's why I have it, save cash)

This has been one step forward and half a kilometer back over the earlier 3.0.x series or even the 2. series near as I can tell, and this has been across a few different distros now with 3.5.x. So it has been a "fresh clean install" a few times now, they are all similar in usage pattern.

Now, I want to be fair about this and conduct this little non scientific "where does this suckage really come from" survey, is it really firefox, are you guys seeing something like this too, or just me and my ancient 1.3 duron with 1.5 gigs of DDR,(I guess I am assuming this is still adequate to do casual web surfing with) or have webpages/websites just gotten so complex and bloated that the entire net is bogging down lately, or what?

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I feel your pain (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#30419846)

I use fox on xubuntu (hereafter X). You may want to give it a try. I've never used ubuntu, which I think is gnome, but I have tried K, and X has much better performance than K on my system. You can still get all the G and K programs that you want on X with the package manager.

That said, one thing that always helps me is getting proprietary video drivers. I have a gaming nvidia card, and downloading the closed drivers makes a big difference in all my visuals, and especially internet and video. You said Xorg seems to be dragging, so that makes me think it may be the stock drivers. I usually have visual slowness before I get the closed drivers, so try to find some for your card.

As far as page disappearing, that may just be what fox is set to do if it gets to a timeout. If you get the page loaded enough that you're happy with it, then hitting stop is probably the best you can do. I don't have that problem on X. I'm using a gaming machine though. My fox is 3.5.something, with adblockplus but without noscript.

Also, if you have a windows box, test the same fox version on that. If not, it's pretty easy to get wine working (at least it was for me on X), so you can try to test it that way. You can even copy your fox profile to a dummy directory, and use "firefox --profilemanager" on the wine instance of fox to use the same profile. That would be the command you would use on windows, but you'll have to adjust that to use wine's command line args and you'll have a C:\\....\\....\\ in there because that's how wine navigates it's directory structure.

visible.frylock

running the blob (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 4 years ago | (#30426574)

I run the blob for my nvidia card already, doesn't seem to make much of a difference really. I don't have any windows stuff so can't compare.

ya, I'll probably go and do some distro hopping soon, see if anything might work better, although I doubt it. You can get to x,y,z distro forums..same old stuff.

I blame fast release cycles and must have emphasis on desktop effects. Perpetual alpha maybe beta ware.

I would *much* rather pay a few bucks a year to a distro that emphasized quality over quantity of offered apps and eyecandy. Double plus, if they released their own guaranteed to work hardware + their OS at normal competitive prices. I don't want dell's half baked offering, nor any of the current "linux comes pre installed" but costs 100% more than anything else hardware. Seems like some company could do some searching, find some really good hardware they could make work well with linux, and sell that, sort of like the apple hardware and software combo. I have no idea why ubuntu/canonical doesn't do this. they want cash, offer a bundle that *works*, and stop trying to support the kitchen sink hardware-wise twice a year where it breaks as much as it fixes all the time. I think this is obvious it just cannot be done by even the big guys like redhat and ubuntu and suse.

In other words, instead of free as in beer and broken all the time, which is the current status of the linux desktop, I would rather paid-for, a modest sum like 20-30 bucks a year,(no twice a year updates, that's obviously broken) then they say "we support such and such hardware, here is the list, and nothing else, you are on your own if you want to run Joe's mobo, sams's home made ram and sidneys pringles can wireless, or you can buy a guaranteed to work desktop or laptop here, which is price competitive with normal entry level hardware from the majors, and you only install from the official repositories if you want it to work".

reliability (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 4 years ago | (#30424400)

I'm running firefox 3.5.4 on Gentoo without problems. In general, Gentoo is usually easy to maintain, punctuated by occasional pain. All in all, it's about the most trouble-free Linux I've run. Another nice thing is that there are really no "versions" for the Big Update. Gentoo is all about the little update, and keeping the packages up-to-date. As mentioned, sometimes the little update is a pain in the neck, like when it's gcc or X, and this morning there was a little dancing between device-mapper, udev, and e2fsprogs, but those times are fairly rare.

My son and daughter run Ubuntu, and both have had rocky times on upgrades. Late last week my son attempted to upgrade from 9.04 to 9.10, and things were a real mess. We saved aside his data and reinstalled 9.04. My daughter still has (We haven't made time for Dad to fix it.) problems with the audio from when she moved from 8.04 to 9.04 last summer.

To be fair, on Gentoo I also have problems with Abiword, but other than that only proprietary binary-only applications give troubles and need detail tweaking.

Re:reliability/ not as important as new shiny... (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 4 years ago | (#30426092)

...and wiggly desktop effects windows and so on it appears nowadays.

I went to that "gnome-look" page the other day after reading about the big controversy in gnome land..

I am seriously reminded what richard nixon said about his trip to bohemian grove....

I keep thinking about that, going to arch or gentoo, trying to find better performance and stability and sanity over eyecandy, along those lines, for the gradual update thing.

But I ain't got the guts nor the skill probably. I have *tried* to improve my linux command line skills but my brane just doesn't work that way, all my earlier stuff was click and drool with mac classic and can't seem to make a transition to the command line. I can google and copy and paste and sort of fool around inside the file system, that's it. I compiled a kernel *once* just to be able to say I did it, and installed a few apps via command line, but that's it. Even thought about doing a linux from scratch to try and learn, but that's even scarier!

heheheh

ubuntu 9.10 is seriously broken for a lot of people (wireless appears to be a real big borkiness aspect), mostly it works for me, at least my screen and audio work, which I can't say for my last fedora try. By fedora 11 it still couldn't get my screen to not look like ass out of the box, always had to hand tweak it, and pulse audio was always a pain, and finally I did some update and *nothing*, not a dang thing, just a black screen, so I went to ubuntu 9.04 and then took a chance and did a net upgrade and it more or less worked except for bad Firefox this time. I don't think that is ubuntu's fault, I think it is FF is just a memory and cpu hog and just got too big or something..

If Apple was still maintaining it, along with staying with PPC, I would have stuck with mac classic. I never had any problems with it at all, and it was easy to learn how to tweak extensions and assign memory, after that, worked swell.

Best linux I ever used by far was redhat 7.2, (when they went to extension 3) absolutely everything worked perfectly and it would run on ancient machines, old junk I slapped together.

Re:reliability/ not as important as new shiny... (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 4 years ago | (#30427140)

Incidentally, I'm not even running one of the fancy desktops, just a straight window manager for myself and xfce (the lightest of all the "full desktops") for my wife.

I started with a borrowed copy of RedHat 4.0, and bought RedHat 4.1 from CheapBytes, all the way through to RedHat 8. That was when they tricked me, though I noticed something a little odd that it was "RedHat 8", not "RedHat 8.0". In my experience, the "x.0" was pretty flakey, the "x.1" was readily usable, and "x.2" was downright sweet. When the went to "RedHat 8" I got it, then when "RedHat 9" came out and I started hearing trouble reports, I knew I had to do something.

I shopped around for a bit, thinking about support issues. Then I did another think, realized that I was supposed to be doing this as a hobby, for *fun*, not support. I headed straight to Gentoo, with fun in mind. In the bargain, I've found the support to be pretty darned easy, too.

But in the mainstream desktops, I'm a little scared. As the Linux desktops chase Windows, it seems to me that they're picking up some of the characteristics of Windows that we disdain. In part, it seems to me that we have some weak areas of infrastructure. I consider wireless to be a driver problem - we finally got the right infrastructure in place in the past year. Both sound and graphics are also weak, also. Graphics are getting an intense makeover right now, and part of the problem is that the graphics stack is a real mess, simply because it's in the middle. By next summer I look for it to be pretty well smoothed out. Unfortunately sound is also a mess, and so far they seem to be trying to fix it by slathering more layers (like JACK and pulseaudio) on.

Re:reliability/ not as important as new shiny... (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 4 years ago | (#30427540)

It sounds to me like you're suffering from wireless issues, not Firefox issues.

I don't know what Wifi card you have installed, but try the backports (sudo apt-get install linux-backports-modules-wireless-karmic-generic), and reboot. The version of Linux that the Ubuntu team adopted turned out to have serious problems with both the Atheros and Intel Wifi drivers. I'm not sure either why the Ubuntu team went ahead with that version - those two chipsets represent the vast majority of live Wifi cards, and the bugs were known prior to the release, or why Torvalds released such a giant godawful piece of crap (not that the Linux kernel is exactly the epitome of quality) as the 2.6.31 release in the first place.

Corrupted Profile. (1)

nlinecomputers (602059) | more than 4 years ago | (#30429946)

It sounds to me like it is a corrupted profile. Firefox will hang if it's profile has gotten screwed up. Try using the profile manager to create a new profile and see if that loads properly.

2nd that (1)

tqft (619476) | more than 4 years ago | (#30442676)

Could easily be corrupted profile, try
firefox --ProfileManager
to create a new profile

Or a dodgy extension that hasn't been updated for ff3.5

Mind you I remember ff being kind of sucky, one reason I stay on trunk, that kind of plugin crap happens - but normally doesn't last long. Good if you can put up with the updating.

You could try seamonkey - it is in the repos and is much better behaved in some ways

If it makes you feel any better... (1)

cmacb (547347) | more than 4 years ago | (#30449600)

My Linux box which has similar horsepower to yours was also starting to feel a bit sluggish. I don't think there was anything wrong with the OS or with the browser(s), but with the web content which grows ever more bloated with both flash(y) ads and even content that has way too much. I love Mozilla and root for their success. But with so many people now switching from IE (which still sucks too) reliability is more important than ever. I've been using Chrome more and more and found it to be faster, but also found it to fail on some pages that Firefox handled fine. I've also upgraded to a low-end Apple machine for my primary desktop and found *all three* browsers available there, Chrome, Firefox, and Safari, fail to render some pages properly, or at all. I'm getting faster page loads, due to a faster machine, and bumped up bandwidth (Verizon has a free upgrade for a year offer going on). It *is* a conspiracy, there is no doubt about that. I had gone so many years without upgrading hardware (and my old hardware was purchased used) that finally getting "state of the art" hardware feels worth it (for a change). But the vested interest will do everything in their power (going to solid state disks, 4 core processors, and other gimmicks) to force you to buy new hardware to make up for their lack of concern about performance or reliability issues with their server side operations.

Some of these pages from "mainstream" sources depend on not just graphics and text, but scripts from a dozen different servers, and it's not just ads, but also measurement services, services that underline certain words and provide pop-up definitions (a stupid idea IMHO) and other such "features" that makes "joe programmer" at the Gazette look more productive than he actually is. There is a house of cards being built here among failing media companies. A house where everyone can point the finger of blame a someone else when it's convenient, or take credit all to themselves when everything is working. Unfortunately the "everything is working" scenario is proving to be more and more illusive.

In the "good old days" browsers could load web page text fairly early and put placeholders in for graphics that might or might not eventually load. At least you could start reading in the mean time.

Today's pages often start out by running a script which then fetches the actual content, along with doing a dozen other things. I think if the authors of these scripts were really good at what they do (which they are not) they would also make sure that they produce something useful, even if everything doesn't go quite as planed. They don't do this though, and there is no way for the browser to "read the minds" of the script writers.

I don't know that there is a way out of this other than for users to let publishers know that if they are going to keep publishing content that isn't readable you won't be patronizing them any longer. Letting them know this publicly (in comments if you can get to that point) may help more than a "letter to the editor". I've given several of the MSM outlets grief over this and have seen gradual improvements, whether as a result of my comments or not I can't say.

By the way I've been using Debian for many years and never saw the need to go to a more "user friendly" distro such as Ubuntu. I always had to tinker with my initial installation to get things like video and sound to work right, but that was mostly adjusting control files, not actually replacing drivers etc. Once I got a Debian version running I almost never had upgrade issues, except when I brought them on myself by doing a fresh install from time to time. The latest Debian I installed a year or so ago needed no such tinkering for the first time. Everything just worked!, and still does. It's nice to have a still-working backup machine in case the primary fails, and there is a good chance that at some point I'll be running Debian instead of OS X on this machine as there are many things I prefer about Debian (or Linux in general) to the one-size-fits-all approach of Apple.

Bloat 2.0 (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 4 years ago | (#30453996)

yes. I think it is narrowed down to if a few tabs don't finish loading and really are trying to do a lot of "somethings" because of web page bloat, it just taxes the system too much and it locks up then. I was reading about having tabs be their own process or something, that is supposed to help eventually, so that one tab screwing up doesn't effect another one or the whole browser.

I keep thinking they need to make web masters work with 15 inch monitors on dialup with pentium II machines and 128 megs RAM, max. Make it work there well, and everyone else gets a really fast smooth web page.

Re:Bloat 2.0 (1)

cmacb (547347) | more than 4 years ago | (#30467612)

If I ran a business that was dependent on web access that's what I'd do.

Unfortunately there seems to be too many layers of management between the people that run some businesses and the people who put together web pages for them.

Of course that could be easily fixed.

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