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8 comments

"...mass psychology" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#33283994)

Well gee whiz! Where have I heard THAT [whale.to] before?? Things are not as complicated as some would like you to believe. Funny how the most logical explanations are so quickly dismissed out of hand.

From the outside looking in, the world of finance appears chaotic...

Exactly the opposite.. From the outside, the manipulations, especially on the mass psyche, are very easy to spot. We understand perdectly the purpose of the apparent "chaos" It is those trapped on the inside who can't/won't see it.. the knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, drooling gen pop that can't stay focused longer than a 30 TV commercial, that has to get their ThighMaster NOW! While supplies last. True, it's not their fault to a certain extent, but they still need to be marched in front of the graves they have dug for themselves. And you know who will be the first to snap out of it? The Chinese!

Sorry, man.. too much Ron Paulism in there, and he's a kook. Needs more Freud... and that other guy.

The graphic artwork on the left side is very nice.

More stupidity in the world than evil (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 3 years ago | (#33284216)

I used to believe in Evil Manipulative People, too. Then at some point I realized that there is far more stupidity than evil in the world, and many of those things we like to attribute to Evil can simply be seen as stupid.

In the case of the economy, aside from all of the fiat stuff, I must say that Karl Marx was and still is right.

Let's put that another way, you cannot maintain a stable robust economy without some form of "wealth redistribution."

Over the years, if some group of people keep getting "greater than the general economy" growth, then that means that other people are losing. Well and good, you say. They deserve it, you say, on both sides. (Those who get and those who lose.)

Examine the results. You wind up with a small group with all of the wealth, a very large group with practically nothing, and perhaps a small merchant class in the middle. Sounds rather like a feudal state to me. An if that's what the wealthy want, that's what they're going to get, because that's what happens when they take such a big share. I'm not commenting on whether it's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that that's what will happen. You wind up with a nice not-very robust economy with nice slow growth.

You also lose, in the long run.

One of the greatest resources of a nation is its people. When all of the wealth is concentrated, that means that only the very wealthy have the full opportunity of education. The full potential of most of the people is wasted, because the necessary education is unavailable to them. From a purely pragmatic point of view, the reason "wealth redistribution" is necessary is to make sure that more people receive the necessary education to reach their potential. If better education is available to more of it's people, it's better for the nation.

Next let's take two nations, one with "wealth redistribution" and one without. The one with will be getting more value out of more of its people, have a more robust economy, greater development and innovation, etc. The one without will be left in the dust.

Some part of me wonders if a unique combination of historical events is drawing to a close. We had the Great Plagues of Europe, which reduced the work force enough that higher pay was required, allowing something like a middle class to get a foothold. That might have stabilized back into feudal doldrums in a century or two, but before that could happen, the New World opened up. The New World "grew the pie" so fast that even though the wealthy were grabbing what they could, there was still enough to go around, for those willing to work hard and take a chance. Then the growth of science and technology kept the pie growing for a century or two after that.

Who knows, the general trend may keep going. But it appears that in the US shortsighted thinking has taken over, and we're headed toward a feudal-like state.

Re:More stupidity in the world than evil (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 3 years ago | (#33284234)

Oh, I have to add a tiny chunk of proof to my hypothesis of stupidity over evil.

The Bush-Cheney Administration. I thought they were competent Evil incarnate. But in the long run, they were just dumb, and unfortunately we're still acting out that stupidity. Actually, the Stupid Trend goes further back, some might say forever, but I'll say that an acceleration came in on Reagan's coattails and has never really left.

Re:More stupidity in the world than evil (1)

Philip K Dickhead (906971) | more than 3 years ago | (#33284442)

But they ARE all held in thrall by trillionaire Jooz, who invent evil conspiracy nonsense - like the illuminati - as disinformation.

Re:More stupidity in the world than evil (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#33285566)

...I'll say that an acceleration came in on Reagan's coattails and has never really left.

Hopefully, maybe we'll run out of gas just before we hit the ground [youtube.com] ...

Was it really stupidity? (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 3 years ago | (#33290228)

They outlined in their own PNAC documents what they intended to do, how to do it, and went and did it. And the process continues. They also succeeded in transferring trillions to their insider circles, putting everyone else into their "debt" for years to come, to keep those monies flowing to the insiders, and also gutted the Constitution "legally", and stripped a lot of rights from the "we the people" folks, with the patriot acts, homerland security jazz, etc. Now they have everyone putting up with "enemies of the state" lists, bow head and be silent and don't question your betters at airports and random checkpoints, got the kids brainwashed into accepting "zero anything we don't like" tolerance crap in schools, all of that stuff. Cameras everywhere, all of it.

I can't see it as being stupid when they hijacked a nation lock stock and barrel and got clean away with it, looks more like a well executed plan and *coup* to me. And because it goes across both major party lines, well...there's a lot of behind the scenes cooperation going on, even though in public they keep using those "differences" in the "divide and keep them conquered" mode. They STILL have most of the victims pointing fingers at other victims while they all chant in unison, "it's all your fault"!!!

6-10 years... (1)

wowbagger (69688) | more than 3 years ago | (#33288598)

I make it about 6 to 10 years for things to go smash:
The boomers born in 1946 will be 65 next year. Assuming they delay retirement until age 72, that is 2018 (8 years out). Assuming they start moving their 401(k)s from growth to value preservation 5 years out, that would be about 3 years from now. At that point the constant influx of stupid money into the stock market will start to drop off, supported to some extent by all the Busters/GenX/GenY/gen.com types still paying into their accounts because the system is rigged to make any other choice unappealing. However, demand will drop, as will prices, which are already thought to be overvalued.

Likewise, between now and 8 years from now, Social Security will start having to pay out to the Boomers. Again, for a period of time the incoming money from everybody else will keep the system going, but at some point SS will be selling more TBills than it takes in. That will eliminate one huge debt-sink the government has been using to hide the true level of check-kiting they've been doing.

I assert the current Health Bill was designed to create another debt-sink: a pile of money (that we conveniently won't be touching for a couple of years) that will need to be "invested" in TBills, creating another account to hide behind. However, in a couple of years that money will need to be spent, and then the ability to hide debt under it will vanish.

As people start investing in intangible tangibles (as in, "I'm buying 'gold'" - no you are not, you are buying a piece of paper that says you might be able to redeem it for gold at some point in the future. If it isn't in your hands, you don't control it.) the prices of them will start to spike. Like TFA said, the big boys (and the little scammers) will start to issue more fake paper masquerading as tangibles, driving the price down. When people discover the con, the prices will go down even more.

I figure about 10 years before the kited checks crash, and the government will either have to print "real" money to cover all the bullshit paper the bankers have been issuing without backing, OR start defaulting on TBills, OR start cutting spending (those are CompSci ORs, by the way, as in "or all of the above"). Since cutting Welfare will cause the cities to burn, the government will start by cutting infrastructure spending, which will "work" for a few years before bridges collapse and roads become pothole farms. But eventually all spending will either cease or simply be in paper worth nothing, and the cities will burn as the gimmes start rioting. Then, when they work out they've crapped in their own nests, they will expand outward.

I like your anaylis (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 3 years ago | (#33290496)

and I want to add two more possibilities

The "great cull" using plausible deniability bioplagues or similar. No need to sweat payments if they are all dead.

General global war-still a distinct possibility, any number of planetary wild cards could happen, or be made to happen.

Either or both are enough of a distraction to institute draconian crack down measures, and to insure that the fatcats stay in power, even if they can't control all the turf. Sort of like the situations we see in iraq and ashcanistan, bases where the occupiers are relatively safe, then the outlying countryside and ghettoes, where they can only travel in armored columns.

Governments have a historical habit of getting really violent when their existence is threatened. I don't see the federal USA government being any different, and they apparently have enough armed order followers now in the military and paramilitary "civilian" police forces to at least give it a whack. Plus, they can always recruit more, when "jobs" are really scarce. The worse the economy gets, the easier it is form them to recruit, three hots and a cot, plus a check, plus take advantage of young guys sense of adventure and getting to fight against "terrorists" or what they will call them then, "terrorist traitors and protesters".

Economically though, agreed, toast, overlapping ponzi schemes. It just ain't possible to keep it going very long. That's the main reason I went into semi emergency "learn to deal with not much cash" mode some years ago. I ran the numbers...it ain't gonna work.

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