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Tell me again how Government Caused the Depression of 2008

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) writes | about 4 years ago

User Journal 16

And not Massive fraud on the part of a deregulated industry sustaining the housing bubble for two years past when it should have exploded. Other articles I've seen are too complex- here it is in comic-book form. Welcome to CDO world!

And not Massive fraud on the part of a deregulated industry sustaining the housing bubble for two years past when it should have exploded. Other articles I've seen are too complex- here it is in comic-book form. Welcome to CDO world!

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16 comments

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No no no (1)

Captain Splendid (673276) | about 4 years ago | (#33395748)

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, as well as their Democrat enablers are soley responsible for the current economic crisis. As soon as I can figure out how they also managed to tank the economies of Iceland, Greece, Spain, Ireland and the UK, I'm home free.

Re:No no no (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | about 4 years ago | (#33396866)

Soros

Re:No no no (1)

tqft (619476) | about 4 years ago | (#33397830)

"...how they also managed to tank the economies of Iceland,..."
The arbitrage available from dealing Fannie & Freddie allowed evil international banks to manipulate gov bond markets in the GUPpIES. Borrow from Fed, buy Freddie/Fannie, use Freddie/Fannie as collateral for dealing in speculative positions in GuPpIES debt.

Almost sounds plausible.

Re:No no no (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 4 years ago | (#33399162)

Well, there's also the deregulation part- you know, where the guys we elected to protect us from this mess looked the other way?

Government caused it by failing to stop it (1, Flamebait)

snowgirl (978879) | about 4 years ago | (#33396156)

Government deregulated, and loosed enforcement of regulation remaining, and that allowed this all to happen. That's about the extent of Government involvement in the matter.

Yes, it was massive fraud on the industry's part and they deserve the full blame for the economic collapse. Murderers don't get a free ticket because the police failed to stop them.

Re:Government caused it by failing to stop it (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 4 years ago | (#33399154)

I think Zogger agrees with you below- but is trying VERY hard not to show it.

errrr (1)

zogger (617870) | about 4 years ago | (#33399110)

Government is corrupt. government is rife with crony insiders from wall street and the casino banks who rotate in and out of government and are in the positions of ultimate economic authority, including at the Fed. All policies come from there. They also lobby/bribe off other government employees..politicians and 'regulators", to look the other way or to sponsor new legislation or remove old legislation that gets in the way of their skimming con games.

Government is 100% at fault, being so corrupt. Corporations are *corrupt by design*, the nature of the beast, it is the government's job to regulate them. None of those entities could do squat unless they were allowed to do it. They couldn't come up with toxic waste derivatives and sell them, or nuthin. the government should have said "WTF are these CDOs and so on? Are you crazy, this is bullshit, these are not "products", GTFO of here right now". These corporations couldn't manipulate the (now scam and counterfeit since 1913) money supply, manipulate the markets, without government lack of oversight, no matter how much tax money is stolen from the "people" for them to do their jobs correctly. Oh, but they are well paid, now government employees at the Fed level make way more than most non government workers and have carved in stone pensions and health insurance and other sorts of goodies.

    These are corporations and receive government charters to function as corporations.. they have to "incorporate", the government could say "no", and either not grant the corporate charters for scam businesses like these, or actually remove them if malfeasance is found, but they do neither, they just steal tax payer money and re-allocate it further upstream to those guys, and let them continue with their mass thievery. It's a mostly closed good ole boy loop, with "government" being the enforcer, the entity with dudes with guns who tell people what they can and can't do. Now, they tell the "people" to always support those billionaires and make them even richer.

  That's all they do, make already rich corporations richer, and get everyone else to believe they are "in debt" to them via constant mass brainwashing.

And so on, and man am I disappointed, it's like all those articles I did, all the typing..gone, worthless, waste of time.

Anyway, thanks for making me realize this, how much of a waste of time and effort it is here.

Re:errrr (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 4 years ago | (#33399146)

If corporations are "corrupt by design", what in the Constitution gives Government the right to form them to begin with?

And, with "government lack of oversight" in the above- does that mean even you think *deregulation and smaller government* is a part of the problem, rather than the solution? As in, we need fewer crony capitalists in Washington DC and more disciplinary policemen?

Re:errrr (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 4 years ago | (#33401284)

The Z man is right, but left out one crucial point, which left the door open to the questions in your second paragraph: Govt. is "corrupt by nature".

And to address specifically what you wrote in your JE, it's neither one of those solely, so you're setting up a false choice.

You should try to stop yourself from thinking about things in "either x or y" terms, as most things in life aren't that simple. Sometimes it's "x and y and several other things", and sometimes it's "neither are any good".

Re:errrr (1)

snowgirl (978879) | about 4 years ago | (#33405628)

If corporations are "corrupt by design", what in the Constitution gives Government the right to form them to begin with?

The same thing in the Constitution that gives the Supreme Court to invalidate laws as unconsistutional... namely, Common Law tradition.

Re:errrr (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 4 years ago | (#33407248)

When we find a bug in a software system, we eliminate it. When we find a bug in the economic system, we perpetuate it out of Common Law Tradition?

Re:errrr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33408508)

It's not a bug. It's a feature. You guys aren't getting it. It's not for common law we perpetuate it. It's the common greed for a piece of the action. We don't want them to stop stealing. We only want the thieves to "share the wealth". Just listen to the campaigns. It's too easy to see. It's what trickle down is all about. The illusion of fast money is what everybody is voting for. We want to vicariously live the life of kings. Actually, when you read the tabloid press, you can see that it's voyeurism that we practice. It's logical in many ways, but it's still irrational. We are being manipulated, but we don't seem to mind so much as long as we are sufficiently entertained. It's not as complicated as some try to make it out to be. Obfuscation is the name of that game. So cut with the political facade. It's all window dressing, a distraction. Be a radical... Try to get to the root, the foundation. That's what the word means.

Re:errrr (2, Informative)

snowgirl (978879) | about 4 years ago | (#33413138)

When we find a bug in a software system, we eliminate it. When we find a bug in the economic system, we perpetuate it out of Common Law Tradition?

Sometimes when a bug is found, you find that a bunch of software written towards your software would break if you actually fix it.

For awhile, glibc would check the file pointer passed to it by the f* file operations (fopen, fread, fwrite, fclose), and if it were null, it would then simply return early. Later, glibc to save speed on these oft-called routines decided to drop this validation. After all, the behavior of passing in NULL for the file pointer is undefined. This broke a lot of software that just did an fopen, and then wrote out the information, and assumed the if the fopen failed, that the fwrites would just no-op.

A lot of software broke because of this, and as a result some people claimed that glibc had the error, whereas each individual program that crashed had the real error. The problem has one of two solutions: the Linux/glibc approach was to declare the out-of-spec programs to be invalid, and buggy, and that the glibc people were not responsible for keeping out-of-spec code working. The Microsoft approach is to carve out "app compat" bug-for-bug reimplementations for those apps that absolutely need it, so that all the programs that ran on Windows before the patch still run, and require that all new programs follow the new spec.

Despite your opinion that corporations are fundamentally evil and should be eliminated, there is a whole bunch of cruft keeping the status quo in position, and no reasonable alternative exists.

Re:errrr (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about 4 years ago | (#33417514)

Actually, a very reasonable and time-tested alternative does exist- and worked in Europe for several thousand years before kings started granting charters to corporations or enforcing contract law. A similar system actually worked in North America right up until the time white men came.

Re:errrr (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 years ago | (#33403582)

Government is 100% at fault... they were allowed to do it... via constant mass brainwashing...

There, that about sums it up, don't you think? Kinda puts us in a bit of a pickle when everybody tries to use the law to grab a share of the plunder, instead of trying to eliminate it.

Glass Steagall (1)

Stargoat (658863) | about 4 years ago | (#33408836)

Glass Steagall of '33 was designed to prevent massive fraud from investment corps on Wall Street from taking down banks on Main Street by creating a barrier between the two. GLBA of '99 removed Glass Steagall. This would never have happened in this manner if Glass Steagall was still in place.

Further, free money as provided by the Fed, created this problem. Free money exasperates problems in the economy. There should be a cost to risk, otherwise too many people will take risks, as there is no cost.

Additionally, the Federal government bailing out these mortgage companies creates a hazard. In the future, people will believe that the government will protect their houses if the economy falls apart.

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