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They Hate Us for Our Freedom to Do This Shit

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) writes | more than 3 years ago

United States 15
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15 comments

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lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#36049658)

i reckon the gene pool needs a little more chlorine

2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36050770)

The fact that the character in that video has the so-called "right to have a firearm" really gives you something to think about.

I'm pretty sure there were guys like that way back in the late 1700s (though they'd be a-hootin' and a-hollerin' on a horse instead of an ATv) and that's more evidence on the side of those who say the Founding Fathers did not intend the 2nd Amendment to indicate a "right" for individuals to own and carry handguns. I can see Franklin and Madison and Jefferson and Co. talking about the Second Amendment and one saying "You know how old Jedediah Smith likes to get shit-face drunk and wave his willy around and beat his wife"" and another Founding Father said "Right, let's put in a clause that specifies well-regulated militia". Then they went down the block for a pint, feeling assured that there would never be judges so corrupt and dishonest that they'd try to twist their newly-minted Second Amendment into some cockamamie "right" for every knucklehead to pack heat.

Little did they know...

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36051138)

:-) Such a tempting little morsel there.. But I can't call it sport when it's that easy [youtube.com] ... dig?

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

dusanv (256645) | more than 3 years ago | (#36052478)

That's the whole point of rights. They're applied non-selectively, to "knuckleheads" and others. That idiot isn't hurting anyone and is within his rights rights to do what he's doing. Plus it's free entertainment. You'd don't see that kind of stuff every day.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

rk (6314) | more than 3 years ago | (#36053004)

I quote the comment I posted on the video itself:

"...as a life-long defender of the right to keep and bear arms, and who only let my NRA membership lapse because I don't think the NRA goes far enough to defend the 2nd amendment, this tosswit has made the most compelling argument for gun control I've ever seen, assuming that those aren't blanks."

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36053190)

That's the whole point of rights. They're applied non-selectively, to "knuckleheads" and others.

And that's my whole point: The Second Amendment does not confer a right to own a gun on everybody.

Until around 1980, nobody, not even the most conservative judge, believed that the Second Amendment was meant to be an individual right. Not even Judge Robert Bork. It wasn't until the NRA and Atty Gen'l Meese that this theory of "individual right to have a gun" was advanced.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

Kymermosst (33885) | more than 3 years ago | (#36054274)

And that's my whole point: The Second Amendment does not confer a right to own a gun on everybody.

Exactly. Everyone who exists already has the right to own a gun. It does not need to be conferred.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36055856)

Everyone who exists already has the right to own a gun.

That may be true, but not because of the U.S. Constitution.

You have the right to participate in a militia (Robt Bork, Time Magazine Vol. 14, Issue 13). At least that's what Bork said the 2nd Amendment means.

Are you suggesting you know better than the most conservativest, liberal-hatingest, rock-ribbed, neck-bearded Judge ever?

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

Kymermosst (33885) | more than 3 years ago | (#36064854)

I am not suggesting any such thing. I agree that it guarantees the right to participate in a militia. Of course, one cannot reasonably participate in a militia if one does not have the ability to possess arms...

The main body of the Constitution is a document that is primarily concerned with taking rights away from individuals and transferring them to collective society as represented in the governmental structure.

The authors really blew it with some of the particulars in the Bill of Rights, though. Now they decided that some rights needed to be enumerated. The 2nd amendment has some of the most awkward language to ever exist in a governing document. Some rights simply did not need to be stated, which is what the 9th amendment tries to cover. Of course, the 9th is totally ignored on practically every issue, such as keeping and bearing arms. Large numbers of people simply had a gun, especially in frontier areas. That would certainly fall under a right "retained by the people" in my opinion.

The 2nd amendment creates confusion because some people take the view that if it does not refer to an individual right to own guns, then individuals do not have the right to own guns.

Of course, the first amendment mentions "the press" which generally implied newspapers and book publishers at the time, one could take the same approach and say that if it did not say television, television is not covered by the first amendment.

I'd like to get this full thought out, but my kid is begging for attention... hope you can see where I am going with this.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36065284)

The main body of the Constitution is a document that is primarily concerned

I agree with what you say.

Further, I believe that the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights is a highly overrated document when it comes to the "glue" which has held our country together. Some of the most beneficial events in our history are those where some extraordinary logic had to be applied to the words in the Constitution to come up with a sensible ruling. But of course, some of the least beneficial things that have been done have also arisen out of extraordinary logic applied to the Constitution (Citizens United).

I believe that credit is being given to the U.S. Constitution that really belongs to our willingness as a nation to not stick slavishly to a flawed document that was never meant to last more than 200 years.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

Le Marteau (206396) | more than 3 years ago | (#36054580)

> Until around 1980, nobody, not even the most conservative judge, believed that the Second Amendment was meant to be an individual right.

Likewise, until about then, nobody, not even the most liberal judge, believed the Second Amendment applied only to militias.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36055832)

Likewise, until about then, nobody, not even the most liberal judge, believed the Second Amendment applied only to militias.

What would make you think that? Since I mentioned Judge Bork, the St Paul of Conservatives, he claimed that the second Amendment applied only to a citizen's right to participate in a militia as early as the late 60's.

But we seem to agree that it does not apply to an individual's right to pack heat. That's important.

You find restrictive local gun laws as early as the first decade of the 19th century. Challenges didn't start until the late 1970's (again, with the NRA).

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36059984)

Regardless what the 2nd amendment says, you do know what would (did) happen to any militia that dares to challenge the authority of the federal government, no matter how well regulated it is, right? The 2nd amendment is as toothless as the 4th.. and the 1st.. in fact, damn near all of them.. It's all just lawyer fodder.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (2)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#36064448)

The 2nd amendment is as toothless as the 4th..

This is an argument for my belief that it is not the Constitution that has kept the United States going for 200+ years, but rather a certain critical level of reasonable people who work to keep us from going off a cliff. Often, they've been justices on the Supreme Court, who quite reasonably stretch the meaning of the words in the Constitution to fit the needs of society at various points in our history. Forty years of sabotage from the Right has taken its toll, however, and now we're getting Citizens United and other equally disastrous decisions. These are decisions which are poison pills for a free society.

I believe the Constitution is highly overrated as an instrument which has guided the US. The fact that we still exist is a testament to the fact that most of us have wanted the US to move forward so we've been pretty reasonable as a group. Unfortunately, the committed campaign of division and social destruction has brought us to where we are now, a precipice.

Re:2nd Amendment Solutions (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 3 years ago | (#36071772)

The constitution does two things. It sets up the parliamentary rules of governance, and possibly more importantly, it declares that the federal government is unassailable. It literally prohibits any effective defiance.. It is actually in direct opposition to the declaration of independence

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