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A disturbing trend ...

tomhudson (43916) writes | more than 3 years ago

User Journal 6

I can't help but notice that the majority of IT jobs locally now ask for either no experience, 1 year, or 3 years. It looks like the movement of head offices to the rest of the country (along with the good jobs), which started 40 years ago, is now pretty much complete, leaving only the crappiest of the crappy jobs.

I can't help but notice that the majority of IT jobs locally now ask for either no experience, 1 year, or 3 years. It looks like the movement of head offices to the rest of the country (along with the good jobs), which started 40 years ago, is now pretty much complete, leaving only the crappiest of the crappy jobs.

No wonder 13% of the city's work force is on welfare, 10% on unemployment, 5% on some other form of government subsidy, and 20% of those who do have a job only work part-time. Throw in a large chunk of the "involuntarily self-employed" (14%) and it's no wonder the "economic recovery" isn't visible..

And also no wonder why a city with a population in the millions can't generate jobs requiring 10 or more years experience - employers can ask for 1 year experience and people with 5 years will apply. Scale up for 2 years, etc. The colleges and universities keep producing workers, but the jobs have gone elsewhere.

The only way to "win" in such a scenario is to go the "War Games" route - refuse to play.

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Interesting . . . (1)

base3 (539820) | more than 3 years ago | (#36264198)

. . . and why doesn't the U.S. EEOC consider a ceiling on requested experience to be ipso facto evidence of age discrimination?

Re:Interesting . . . (1)

RM6f9 (825298) | more than 3 years ago | (#36264554)

Because they're minimums, not maximums: If, as an employer, I advertise seeking 2 years of experience, that in no way excludes my willingness to hire someone with 10 or more, and if they're willing to work for what I'm willing to pay, that's free-market capitalism.
Please note that the above does not necessarily make me a *wise* capitalist, one of whom might understand that they *need* a 10-yr plus experienced person for certain portions of a position's responsibilities, b-u-t, until they feel the pain of their short-sighted penny-wise pound-foolish practices, it's gonna continue.
An honest curiosity (because I'm not a coder): How *does* one distinguish themselves as a quality coder, far above and beyond the 1-year code monkeys, to a non-coding semi-tech-literate hiring manager? Further, having done that, how does one demonstrate the need for quality vs. a batch of monkeys?

Good questions (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#36265300)

How *does* one distinguish themselves as a quality coder, far above and beyond the 1-year code monkeys, to a non-coding semi-tech-literate hiring manager?

You can't. They believe that the monkey is "good enough".

How *does* one distinguish themselves as a quality coder, far above and beyond the 1-year code monkeys, to a non-coding semi-tech-literate hiring manager?

In this environment, you don't, because it's irrelevant to the hiring process.

Just as important, managers prefer to manage people who are junior to them in other ways, such as age, which means they're more comfortable with people with less experience - and an additional plus is that the less experienced person is less likely to challenge them when they make a bad decision, so when the manure hits the ventilator, they can argue that nobody could have foreseen the failure.

It's part of why I decided this week that there's no point looking for a programming job locally any more. The jobs I would do have all gone elsewhere, and I have too much experience to be considered for the jobs that are left. I've looked at the long-term trends, and it's not going to change here until at LEAST 2075 (it gets worse until at least 2040, then maybe starts to recover), so what's the point, really?

I'm not the only one to come to this conclusion - none of my former coworkers has found a new job in the past 2-3 years, and the quality of the jobs on offer is pretty sad, even if you ignore the rock-bottom pay.

Re:Interesting . . . (1)

base3 (539820) | more than 3 years ago | (#36297264)

That's a good point -- but I've seen the word "maximum" used in ads, though not recently. But when a range is specified, I (perhaps erroneously) had been reading the top and bottom of the ranges as upper and lower bounds.

it might differ based on the technology stack (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | more than 3 years ago | (#36282570)

Around here, for .NET programming positions at least, it's been the opposite -- generally only guru-level jobs were adverted in 2009 and 2010, and just a few intern and entry-level began appearing later in 2010. It seems most of the 1-3 years experience jobs have been off-shored, as the sr level jobs betray with the oft-mentioned requirement of being able to work with teams in other time zones.

Unemployment and underemployment is just going to continue to get worse in the formerly rich Western democracies, as the globalists on the Left (pretty much all of you guys) continue taking us further towards a one-world governance, to consolidate power in order to save the earth and redistribute the wealth, and the globalists on the Right (the neocon maybe half of my side) are all too happy to go along with it for now since it means, albeit temporarily, a golden opportunity for big business to become even more rich and powerful. You can't stop "progress" like this -- I don't think even the bankrupting of formerly rich nations will awaken enough people on the Right, or get enough people to turn from their foolish ways on the Left, to stop it.

Re:it might differ based on the technology stack (1)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 3 years ago | (#36285952)

Globalist? Me? I don't think so! I went to Canada's capitol for a week to twist politicians' ears to try to convince them that NAFTA was t trojan horse - that the energy and water provisions were definitely not to ur advantage, and that it would (and did) cut our leverage under the Auto Pact, etc.

Couldn't find ONE who had actually read the thing, and didn't understand that it was not about "free" trade, and that "harmonizing" laws would have major negative impacts on our economic competitiveness, turning us back to "hewers of wood and drawers of water", but without the benefits.

Ethyl Corporation's lawsuit over MMT (which was banned here for environmental reasons) should have been cause enough to issue the 6-month withdrawal notice from NAFTA.
http://www.commercialdiplomacy.org/case_study/case_mtbe_public.htm [commercialdiplomacy.org]
... but our politicians don't really understand what national sovereignty really means, That it means that you CAN regulate your industries without having to be in quite the same mad rush to the bottom that everyone is now engaged in, and leverage your natural resources for your own good (for example, impose a high enough export tariff on raw materials to encourage their transformation locally ... you know ... that so-passe concept of manufacturing real stuff ...)

There's a big difference between fair trade and giving away the store. Business will continue along the current path because (1) they can, and (2) so can their competitors.

The funny thing is that the "market efficiencies" of globalization are mostly false - we just haven't booked the real costs (both the externalities and the social costs) into our calculations yet, and it's doubtful we will any time soon.

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