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Get off my Lawn!

KshGoddess (454304) writes | about 2 years ago

User Journal 6

I feel old, guys. I feel like the old man sysadmin with the Unix Beard and suspenders (which I continually think of as a halloween costume, less and less ironically). My coworkers are all... what would have been slashdotters had they not found digg or reddit, or whatever it was.

I feel old, guys. I feel like the old man sysadmin with the Unix Beard and suspenders (which I continually think of as a halloween costume, less and less ironically). My coworkers are all... what would have been slashdotters had they not found digg or reddit, or whatever it was.

These are "kids" who grew up with linux. (They're all 30.) But they don't have the base knowledge that I expect them to have. They only know bash. They mostly know Ubuntu and Red Hat, although the one 'sysadmin' type dude knows virtual machines with Xen, and seems to know what he's doing most of the time.

I figured I'd pick up python, because I ordered a raspberry pi, and it seems that's what all the cool kids are doing. (I get along fine with shell and perl for most of whatever it is I do around here.) The advice I got from one of my coworkers was that I should "uninstall the IDE." IDE? For python? Seriously? It's interpreted, you use a goddamned text editor. Apparently that's one of the 'tips' from "Learning Python the Hard Way." (I'm reading Programming Python on my nook, FWIW. And I'm already yelling at it, as the examples are how to create a database from your filesystem with pickle, because seriously, if you're managing peoples' salaries, you don't want your data in flat files, or necessarily in a readable format to your other employees. But that's my cross to bear.)

When I got home, I started ranting about that to the Benny. Frothing at the mouth kind of ranting like I used to be able to do. Who uses a goddamned IDE for an interpreted language!? There's no "I" for your "DE". When you're writing C, in a complex environment, sure. When you're writing Obj-C for your iPhone app of the year, fine. You have libraries, you have interdependencies, you have reasons to have a debugger and a compiler. Python is interpreted. There's no need for these things.

Goddamned kids these days. In my day, we had emacs and vi, and flamewars about both. There was no IDE for writing shell scripts. There was no IDE for perl. There wasn't even really decent tab completion! We used 'more' instead of 'less'. We knew how to pipe things to awk and grep. We used which instead of locate. And we liked it, damnit!

I'm running OpenNMS on Ubuntu at work, using vi (technically vim) to edit all the xml files and java.properties style files. I don't run KDE, Gnome, or any other desktop on the damned thing. It's a server, for pete's sake. Not that it's lacking RAM or CPU for me to run that, but because I'm old, and old-school. Some of my coworkers (and I use that word loosely, as I'm a department of one) run linux on the desktop ... not because all the tools are there and work, necessarily, but because our IT group doesn't know how to deal with linux, and they can get away with it.

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Actually (1)

rk (6314) | about 2 years ago | (#41599035)

I've used some nice Python IDEs in my time. One nice feature in one (WingIDE i think it was) was that I could attach it to a script running on a web server and trace execution and inspect variables while attached to the remote process.

But for the most part, I still use vim and the command line to work with it. Python already works interactively.

Yes (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 2 years ago | (#41605927)

... I often feel that way too ...

Re:Yes (1)

kesuki (321456) | about 2 years ago | (#41623815)

i never understood these things...
i mean like why can an android phone do voice search and has a camera with all the bells and whistles.. but can't properly process html, every browser has to be dumbed down even running a dual core 1ghz processor, i had a 350 mhz computer for 10 years, and a 600mhz cpu for 8 years that could do all the crap i threw at it, under windows or freebsd... i even had a windows 95 laptop that couldn't run a full day without crashing, but ran for 12 years.. and yes i had to format it every few years to keep it running. FROM FLOPPIES. a plater in a 3.5" hdd is about the same size as a floppy but supposedly stores half a terrabyte per side now.
which sounds crazy, but i have a blu-ray burner now and it was able to fit all the home movies my sister took, on 2 optical discs, roughly 50 gb because i refuse to pay for 50 (44gb actual) gb discs. one disc, can fit 12 years of home movies... i was never as technically knowledgeable as others, but i was still called the geek, the expert on computers... sigh.

Re:Yes (1)

SiliconJesus (1407) | about 2 years ago | (#41744547)

Its a matter of want vs need. It can't do it because that's not the most critical application for the user-base.

Tell us all about it... (1)

JWSmythe (446288) | about 2 years ago | (#41664355)

    Welcome to the BoFH pub...

    Here, have a seat [pulls up bar stool], and a drink [signals at the bartender for 2 more pints]...

    Tell us all about it... We all know this song. We'll probably sing along.

    We'll drown our sorrows, and walk away happy.. Forgetting that tomorrow is another day, and another "techie person" will insult our cumulative intelligence yet again.

We're all old gods here (1)

SiliconJesus (1407) | about 2 years ago | (#41744645)

Even I, at a mere 36 am the old gnarly neckbeard compared to the young whipper snappers they bring in. Sure some of them are older than me, but when I take away their gnome and remote desktop, they get all whimpery and whiney. "Use SSH!" I admonish them gently "Hell, pipe X over it if you really want to, but you're not going to load X11 on that server!" They don't understand that even though the server has plenty of ram and CPU to be able to run a window manager, that's not what a server is supposed to do. They look at my stripped down UI, runs a clock, CPU load on that workstation, a Firefox pointing to our monitoring stuff and a shortcut to gnome-terminal. All gnome terminals are green on black. Color tells me where I am, and who I am. My .vimrc is set up to deal with my colorblindness (as are my .dircolors). I teach them about netcat, tcpdump, strace, truss, /proc - the guts of the operating system. They look at me with pity. I throw my hands up and wait for them to tender resignation.

The life of the neckbeard is lonely, frustrating, and growing old. We are the dinosaurs upon whom our organic compounds fuel the new network. Streamlined and socialized, they reinvent the wheel; 8 bit this time because realism isn't real enough.

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