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Watchmen

roman_mir (125474) writes | about 2 years ago

User Journal 5

This is not a review, the movie had enough of those, this is just a thought. Apparently what people expect from their superheros nowadays is ability to sacrifice millions 'for the sake of saving billions' and the superheros who refuse to go alone with that scheme must be killed (and they are in the movie). I think the director is counting on securing support of an average movie-goer, selling him on the idea that sacrificing a small number of people is just fine as long as the majority suppo

This is not a review, the movie had enough of those, this is just a thought. Apparently what people expect from their superheros nowadays is ability to sacrifice millions 'for the sake of saving billions' and the superheros who refuse to go alone with that scheme must be killed (and they are in the movie). I think the director is counting on securing support of an average movie-goer, selling him on the idea that sacrificing a small number of people is just fine as long as the majority supposedly gains from it.

Of-course the entire concept is nonsense, there can be no beneficial murder. Sacrificing a minority for the benefit of a majority is not a virtue, it is a crime against individuals and their rights. Also while believing that world's super-powers (the countries with nuclear potential to destroy the planet) would cooperate against a common enemy is somewhat sound, believing that such a truce would be long lived or would lead to a more stable situation is nonsense. Power will not be shared and it only takes a little time before the old enemies are at each other's throats again. Of-course there is an added level of 'benefit' that their major cities are destroyed, which cannot make political or economic situation more stable, it would however achieve the exact opposite result.

If the Ozymandias (Adrian Veidt) wanted to increase stability in the world and achieve some for of higher cooperation among enemies, given his insight into limitless power he could have fairly easily achieved this goal by supplying the world with huge amount of very cheap energy. He could set up multiple corporations around the world selling the energy so cheaply, first he would put many 'old world' energy companies out of business but then he would provide enough energy for many new forms of businesses to be created. Cheaper food production and manufacturing, cheaper shipping, cheaper communications. Everything that he could do with the power and he chooses to pursue his idea of playing out the dreams of another murderer from history - Alexander the Great.

If after watching this movie an average person is left with an impression that it is an acceptable thing to do, to sacrifice minority for the benefit of majority (even if it means ideas based around grandiose totalitarian utopia and even when it is masked with a supposed formula for survival) then the director has done his job in cementing more of this collectivist ideology of central planning, the anti-humanist idea that anything goes as long as the technocrat can sell it as if it is done "for the greater good".

The greatest crimes on this planet were committed by people promising to ensure "the greater good". The future of such crimes is not behind single individuals, it is behind the mob, voting completely democratically to bring about yet another totalitarian regime. A regime that would take care of the mob by making a beneficial sacrifice of a small number of people (and small number of people would always lose in a democratic elections, thus the definition of mobocracy).

From murder of millions to "save billions" in the super-hero movies to taxing the few wealthy 1-2% apparently to ensure economic prosperity of everybody else. It doesn't work in the movie and it doesn't work in real life. It's not good morality and it's not good economics, but it makes a great show and sounds good in politics.

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You got the message completely wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42202977)

The movie is saying that if you have capital, like Ozymandias, you can do ANYTHING, including killing millions.

The movie is saying that if you are a successful businessman, like Ozymandias, then you are not obligated to do anything that helps the economy or other people.

The movie is saying that if you are a successful free market capitalist, like Ozymandias, you can commit great crimes, and even the gods will favor upon you (Dr Manhattan with his godlike powers sided with Ozymandias in the end)

The movie is praising how free market capitalism, represented by Ozymandias, will ultimately triumph over the poor socialists (the band of heroes who formed a collective to try and fight him). In the end the socialists even betrayed each other (Dr Manhattan on Rorschach)

Re:You got the message completely wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42203269)

The movie is saying that if you have capital, like Ozymandias, you can do ANYTHING, including killing millions.

- right, because wealthy people stay wealthy by killing off their client base. Governments do kill millions, wealthy people who run big companies want to sell to millions, not kill them. People don't stay wealthy by killing off their clients, they stay wealthy and grow their wealth by selling to more people. Sure, nobody is 'obligated' to anything, it's only the market regulation itself - kill off your client base and what good is your wealth? OTOH governments don't care, they don't have client base, they only have voter base and as long as governments kill millions of people who do not vote for the governments, they are OK.

Great crimes are committed by governments of the world, not by wealthy businessmen (unless those businessmen can also be in government, then it's a different story, but that's already beyond free market capitalism, that's a collectivist system, anywhere between socialism and fascism).

Obviously in the movie there is no free market capitalism anywhere near the plot, the Ozymandias enjoys support of a totalitarian figurehead, like Manhattan, who in his spare time is just another agent of the powerful government.

You also completely misunderstand Rorschach, he is not a socialist, quite the opposite. He makes it abundantly clear on multiple occasions, he doesn't go alone with any collectivist ideology and he is against central planning and central authority on a principle.

Manhattan is not really a human, hard to say what is in his head, but clearly he is not as smart as some would believe, since he falls for Ozymandias premise that using a common enemy can stave off the larger conflict between world's powerful governments for too long and prevent war.

Quite the opposite is true, it's not common enemy, it's common interest solidified through trade is what prevents war and promotes peace.

Clearly you have fallen prey to the insidious pro-collectivist, pro-central planning, both pro-socialist and pro-fascist nature of the plot in this movie, you are perfect target audience.

Re:You got the message completely wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42204425)

- right, because wealthy people stay wealthy by killing off their client base.

Right, because that's what I or the movie said /sarcasm

No, Ozymandias, the wealthy businessman, didn't kill off his client base. He just killed SOME people, people who might not even be his client base in the first place

See, you have to remember Ozymandias is dealing in the billions. When you deal in billions, millions is nothing.

Now, was I talking about people, or dollar values? The answer: YES. That's how all successful wealthy people operate, be it with people or dollars. Steve Jobs probably spent millions of dollars on copyright and patents against Google/Android. A million may be a lot to you and me, but it's nothing to Apple, who makes billions in revenue.

Obviously in the movie there is no free market capitalism anywhere near the plot, the Ozymandias enjoys support of a totalitarian figurehead, like Manhattan, who in his spare time is just another agent of the powerful government.

Nonsense. Manhattan was just an employee. He was free to leave. And leave he did for a time.

You also completely misunderstand Rorschach, he is not a socialist, quite the opposite. He makes it abundantly clear on multiple occasions, he doesn't go alone with any collectivist ideology and he is against central planning and central authority on a principle.

No, you completely misunderstand Rorschach. He is a liar. He lies like a politician. He says all those nice sounding things about principles, but his actions is the opposite: he teamed up and formed a collective with the other heroes to fight against lone individual businessman Ozymandias.

Manhattan is not really a human, hard to say what is in his head, but clearly he is not as smart as some would believe, since he falls for Ozymandias premise that using a common enemy can stave off the larger conflict between world's powerful governments for too long and prevent war.

Doesn't matter. The one thing we know is that Manhattan is a free individual. Nobody has power over him. Not Ozymandias' businesses, not the in-universe government, no Rorschach or his collective of superheroes, no anybody. And Manhattan in his individual free will with zero coercion, choose to side with Ozymandias.

And that is the right choice, for Ozymandias is a producer, a successful businessman. Contrast that to Rorschach, who's basically jobless. He doesn't produce and spends his days as a vigilante, not producing, just conducting acts of violence and murder.

Ozymandias was producer for the economy and society, Rorschach was simply destroying it. Thus, the free individual Manhattan made the rational choice. And soon the collective of heroes against Ozymandias collapsed, as all collectives are destined to do.

Clearly you have fallen prey to the insidious pro-collectivist, pro-central planning, both pro-socialist and pro-fascist nature of the plot in this movie, you are perfect target audience.

Nonsense. I'm for the individual. The movie is pro-individual. The individual called Ozymandias won, not the says-he's-against-collectives-but-joins-one-anyway liar Rorschach. Rorschach's collective of heroes LOST.

There's a conspiracy everywhere! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42203969)

It seems like everything you see, everywhere - excluding the religious propaganda from your lord and savior ron paul, of course - is something you see as another socialist conspiracy theory. It must suck to live at such a high level of paranoia; I would suggest you seek medication but you probably have been lead to believe that your doctor is part of the plot to take over the world and make you (personally) miserable. I would suggest you might want to watch less Glenn Beck, but you would then likely be left to only watch more ron paul videos on youtube (not that there are any left you haven't already seen enough to transcribe in your sleep).

Hell, you are so wrapped up in your own conspiracy theory that you are completely and utterly blind to the fact that your own writings are self-contradictory. Your very statement of "no beneficial murder" is itself contradictory to your own declared aims - to point out just one obvious glaring problem with your "logic".

Re:There's a conspiracy everywhere! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#42295285)

fuck off, damn_registrars
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