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Wayne LaPierre offers lucidity

smitty_one_each (243267) writes | about a year ago

User Journal 19

This is a litmus test for sanity:This is a litmus test for sanity:

Now, we must speak ... for the safety of our nation's children. Because for all the noise and anger directed at us over the past week, no one â" nobody â" has addressed the most important, pressing and immediate question we face: How do we protect our children right now, starting today, in a way that we know works?
The only way to answer that question is to face up to the truth. Politicians pass laws for Gun-Free School Zones. They issue press releases bragging about them. They post signs advertising them.
And in so doing, they tell every insane killer in America that schools are their safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk.
How have our nation's priorities gotten so far out of order? Think about it. We care about our money, so we protect our banks with armed guards. American airports, office buildings, power plants, courthouses â" even sports stadiums â" are all protected by armed security.
We care about the President, so we protect him with armed Secret Service agents. Members of Congress work in offices surrounded by armed Capitol Police officers.
Yet when it comes to the most beloved, innocent and vulnerable members of the American family â" our children â" we as a society leave them utterly defenseless, and the monsters and predators of this world know it and exploit it. That must change now!
The truth is that our society is populated by an unknown number of genuine monsters â" people so deranged, so evil, so possessed by voices and driven by demons that no sane person can possibly ever comprehend them. They walk among us every day. And does anybody really believe that the next Adam Lanza isn't planning his attack on a school he's already identified at this very moment?
How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame â" from a national media machine that rewards them with the wall-to-wall attention and sense of identity that they crave â" while provoking others to try to make their mark?

But let me double down, for the terminally Progressive:

SEEN ON FACEBOOK:
âoeWhat is the gun community going to do about this tragedy?â
âoeI dunno. What is the gay community going to do about Penn State?â

Well, clearly the "gay community" is going have some festive burst of fiscal fauxtrage about how we have plenty of time to mourn, but no time to locate resources for physical security.

19 comments

No. (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about a year ago | (#42368813)

Two things.

First, the plan won't work. If a school hires an armed guard (presumably by firing 1.5 teachers to pay the guard's salary?) then you'll just encourage the people who want to do this kind of act to wear body armor. On top of that, it is one guard with one gun against a heavily armed individual who knew what to expect; an AR-15 could have squeezed off at least half a dozen shots before the guard would have even been able to unholster his weapon. And don't forget that few schools have only one door; if the guard is at the front door the attacker just comes in through a different door and gets started before the guard even knows what is going on. You're only starting a perpetual cycle of armament; why not just send kids to prison instead of school to begin with as the schools would eventually be so armed as to look pretty well the same.

Second, weapons are not the problem, or the answer. Mental health is both. People like this end up falling in to the mental health vacuum that our system has created, celebrated, and propagated. They can't hold a job because of their mental health problems, hence cannot get health insurance, hence cannot get treatment. We as a nation make the whole problem worse by belittling people who actually seek out help for their mental health problems, leading to not nearly enough people who have access using the resources either. Spending billions of dollars annually on security guards won't help those who are not getting mental health treatment..

Re:No. (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#42369117)

Second, weapons are not the problem, or the answer. Mental health is both.

Mostly agree, with a minor quibble directed at the definite article.
Mental health is among the factors, likely sorting high on the list.
My contention is that we need to disabuse ourselves of the notions of "solving" any of this. Nothing whatsoever undertaken in the name of Newtown is going to "solve" anything other than scratch some gasbags's itch to abuse the word "solve". Temporarily.

Re:No. (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about a year ago | (#42369521)

My contention is that we need to disabuse ourselves of the notions of "solving" any of this. Nothing whatsoever undertaken in the name of Newtown is going to "solve" anything other than scratch some gasbags's itch to abuse the word "solve". Temporarily.

That depends on how you look at "solve", of course. Obviously nothing we can do will bring back the 20 children who were killed, so that type of solution is off the table, permanently.

What we can do, however, is work to prevent this kind of thing form happening again. And adding more guns to the situation will do that. The people who commit these kinds of acts are in need of mental health treatment but our society is in many cases actively preventing them from obtaining the treatment they need. The best way to prevent these events from happening again is, beyond any shadow of a doubt, in how we care for people with mental health issues.

Turning our schools into prisons will not prevent these events from happening.

Re:No. (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#42369671)

Turning our schools into prisons will not prevent these events from happening.

What, exactly is going to Prevent These Events From Happening? You seem to be contending that if we Just. Passed. More. Laws. we could effectively use the rule of law as an instrument of human redemption [nytimes.com] .

Re:No. (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about a year ago | (#42369877)

Turning our schools into prisons will not prevent these events from happening.

What, exactly is going to Prevent These Events From Happening?

I already said, this is a mental health problem. We intentionally prevent people from getting the help they need, and reward people for that active denial. That needs to stop immediately.

You seem to be contending that if we Just. Passed. More. Laws.

The NRA is asking for a new law as well. The difference is that the NRA proposal will put people out of work and not make any real difference. Improving access to mental health will actually put people back to work and prevent these events from happening again.

we could effectively use the rule of law as an instrument of human redemption.

That does not connect to this matter. Conservatives bash cap-and-trade as being restrictive. Actual improvements in health care accessibility are about opportunity, not restriction or punishment.

Re:No. (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#42370265)

Actual improvements in health care accessibility are about opportunity, not restriction or punishment.

Actual improvements will occur when we disabuse ourselves of the notion that government perturbing markets [amazon.com] beyond the minimal necessary for function Just. No. Worky-Worky. beyond buying the vote.
Restated, Progress has been a con-job, selling short liberty for power this last century. And it's bi-partisan. And it's going to crap itself as soon as next year.

"gay community"? (2)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about a year ago | (#42373009)

Smitty, this is a term you really want to stop using. It says more about you than you probably want to be public knowledge. Seriously, homophobes are as creepy as racists and like racists they beg to not be part of the "American community".

There is no "gay community". It would be like saying, "white community" or human community, or community of people with green eyes. There is a difference between a category and a community.

There are as many types of gay people as there are types of people. There are even gay Conservatives, but they are mostly closeted out of fear. When you say, "the gay community" you are exposing yourself as someone who uses AM radio shorthand. It would be as bad as saying, "the gun community..." (Oh, wait, you did that too). This is the downside of living in the right-blog bubble. You start to really believe the world is as described by people who have a vested interest in you being small-minded and easy to lead. They want you to get to the point where all you have to say is "those liberals..." or "those gays..." or "those blacks..." and you'll react predictably in a way that puts money in their pockets and keeps you in a form of soft tyranny. I've seen the end-game of this kind of thing first-hand in the former Yugoslavia and it's really a bad way for a people and a nation to go.

This is one you want to get over, friend.

Re:"gay community"? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#42373109)

Precisely. The absurdity of demanding a "gun community" as such (or the NRA) "do something" about Newtown is as absurd as positing a "gay community" and demanding this straw man/woman undertake action in the wake of molestation at Penn State.
I genuinely regret that the irony flew by you. One point on which your're completely wrong is "gay Conservatives, but they are mostly closeted out of fear". I've hung out with the GOProud guys, and link Gay Patriot on my blog. Why? Because they're Americans fighting the Progressive Orwellian state.

This is the downside of living in the right-blog bubble. You start to really believe the world is as described by people who have a vested interest in you being small-minded and easy to lead.

Which is ironic in the light of the right-blog world advocating liberty. . .

They want you to get to the point where all you have to say is "those liberals..." or "those gays..." or "those blacks..." and you'll react predictably in a way that puts money in their pockets and keeps you in a form of soft tyranny.

I comment to you Alfonzo Rachel [youtube.com] , whose autograph I have in a copy of The Road to Surfdom. The 'Zo will help deprogram YOU from what appears to be a severe case of ignorance.

Re:"gay community"? (0)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year ago | (#42373427)

Homophobia is a disease invented by a psychiatrist bribed to do so. It doesn't exist.

the nanny state and the security state (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about a year ago | (#42378093)

On the original topic, beware of:

1) The Left seeking to disarm the populace (towards removing any means of resistance to a totalitarian state, but more broadly and importantly any means or symbols of thoughts and feelings of independence or self-actualization which stand in the way of acceptance of such a state).

2) The neocons seeking to lock down every aspect of our society (accustoming us to the sight of armed guards and being searched (physically or electronically) throughout our daily activities).

The former seek to protect the high-and-mighty society from its individuals, and the latter seek to protect us from aberrants as well, just where that is defined as the few instead of the many. But both end up with us as man keeps its canine companions; perpetually largely children, mentality-wise, geared towards looking to authority for most things and accepting authority on almost everything.

I don't want to be infantilized, for a more sanitized, perfect society. So progressives, on both sides, can go hurry to their afterlife host.

Otherwise, Merry Christmas guys.

Re:the nanny state and the security state (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#42379475)

You! are too cool. I actually mean that...

The best to you too.

Re:the nanny state and the security state (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#42384087)

"Neocon" is term most often seen in foreign policy circles.
"SoCons" is the term for those seeking to use secular means for sacred ends.

I disagree with him (1)

Arker (91948) | about a year ago | (#42373989)

I disagree with the talk of professional guards. That's exactly what we dont need.

I am all in favour of getting rid of the obstacles to school staff carrying concealed on school grounds. I believe this would be much more effective, and more consistent with the idea that this is a free country and our schools should not be prison camps. But it's still only a way to limit the damage, it doesnt address the underlying cause of the damage.

I agree with those that are saying that the occasion should prompt a hard rethink of our policies and more importantly our attitudes. The US isnt the most dangerous developed country around because of weapons - there are actually places with more weapons per capita than here, yet much lower rates of violence. We are a dangerous place because culturally we accept a number of flawed premises relating to violence. We are a violent culture that approves of our government bombing children all around the world on a nearly daily basis, a culture that believes that raw violence is a legitimate way to solve all kinds of problems, that accepts the rationalisation of murder as 'collateral damage' in a routine way. It should surprise no one that a culture so disfunctional also produces school massacres.

Re:I disagree with him (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#42374533)

OK. What a refreshing thing to have a rational bit of disagreement. Indeed, various local communities, where the decision making ought to reside, may avoid cost by training existing staff.
My chief reason for quoting LaPierre was his correct identification of "Gun free zones" as a vast contributor to the death toll.
Sober, rational back-and-forth is crucial here. Thanks!
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