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Authoritarianism in necessary

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) writes | about a year and a half ago

User Journal 33

80 million dead in the 20th century proves that humanity can't handle liberty.

80 million dead in the 20th century proves that humanity can't handle liberty.

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33 comments

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Piffle (1)

chill (34294) | about a year and a half ago | (#43378557)

I'll assume you've corrected for the number who have died from disease, since the 1918 flu is credited with 50 - 100 million deaths.

Most of the rest died by the hand of authoritarians and not those with liberty: Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot

So the two things that absolutely must go in the 21st century are authoritarianism and influenza.

Re:Piffle (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43378947)

Well! You certainly made anything I have to say redundant... Maybe he's only counting abortions. Some people give more respect to the unborn and the dead than they do the living and breathing.

Re:Piffle (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43379585)

Given that the dead outnumber the living, respect for the dead is only democratic.
http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Gilbert_K_Chesterton/Orthodoxy/The_Ethics_of_Elfland_p2.html [pagebypagebooks.com]

Re:Piffle (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43380155)

...respect for the dead is only democratic.

Ah, I see you've studied the history of Chicago.

Re:Piffle (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387023)

Or London. Take your pick.

Re:Piffle (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43379573)

I'm talking about those who were murdered, aborted, euthanized. Usually under influence of drugs, alcohol, or poverty, but always in liberty.

The genocide of the libertines far outweighs the genocides committed by the authoritarians.

Re:Piffle (1)

chill (34294) | about a year and a half ago | (#43379709)

Changing that requires changing human nature. Authoritarianism won't fix that problem, at best it just sweeps it under the rug and out of sight. At worse it exacerbates the problem.

Re:Piffle (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43380171)

There's nothing particularly human about our nature. We just have to have to wait to see how the brain stem evolves.

Re:Piffle (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387013)

Changing that requires education- and that we can change.

Re:Piffle (1)

chill (34294) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387131)

Agreed.

Freudian slip? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43379259)

Except it's spelled "Unnecessary"

Re:Freudian slip? (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43379565)

55 million dead fetuses rotting in America's garbage dumps say otherwise.

Re:Freudian slip? (1)

chill (34294) | about a year and a half ago | (#43379725)

A problem best addressed by reducing poverty and increasing both reproductive education and the universal availability of contraceptives.

Re:Freudian slip? (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387031)

Reproductive education and contraceptives together is oxymoronic. The existence of one precludes the other.

And it is not worth reducing poverty by reducing the poor, which is what contraception is all about.

Free moral agency (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year and a half ago | (#43380203)

The human capacity for sin is cooked into the reality God created. How are you proposing to alter reality, then?

Re:Free moral agency (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387007)

I'm not proposing we alter reality. I am proposing we alter education.

Re:Free moral agency (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387165)

Altar education.

Re:Free moral agency (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43392383)

That would be a huge improvement.

More generally, ... (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about a year and a half ago | (#43381493)

...100 years of sin proves that humanity can't handle governing itself. Then obviously human authoritarianism can't fix that.

I.e. your implied argument is of the utmost absurdity. You're saying people can't be trusted, so people must stop them. But people can't be trusted!

The EOW may come in our lifetimes. The only workable authoritarianism is divine authoritarianism. (And your popes are not Christ.)

Re:More generally, ... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43385645)

Natural authoritarianism IS divine authoritarianism. It's other name is 'might makes right' and/or 'survival of the fittest', a most elementary basis of the mechanical universe. And it is perfectly workable for all sub-human species, including man. Human beings would never have any need for such a thing though. For them, the only workable, divine authoritarianism is of the self and extends no further than one's self. Man's desire for exclusive possession and to extend it further only means he is not human, but a perfectly and absolutely natural animal, also divine in itself, nature being what it is. IOW, we have yet to discover human nature.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387005)

The mechanastic universe doesn't exist, for it cannot contain free will.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43387107)

Yet here it is, and here we are, even if it only exists in our minds. It is no less divine than its creator.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43392359)

But it isn't. The mechanistic model of the universe is no more accurate at describing the infinite reality than any other theology or philosophy.

The human mind just isn't built to handle the universe.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43392585)

So we create one that fits. What's the difference? That's how we maintain a small degree of sanity.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43393853)

It is impossible to define human sanity in that way, because no model will ever fit. Godel's incompleteness theorem.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43396653)

Nothing is impossible... ever, however unlikely, it is never impossible. We go with what works as new discoveries are made. I see no problem with that. I seek and find joy in my life, not purpose. If it comes to me, great. If it doesn't, I'm fine with that too.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43402353)

New discoveries are great, as long as you realize that they'll never be total. Far to many people are not skeptical enough about skepticism, and that's where science gets into trouble.

The problem with living only for joy and not for purpose, is that your joy causes other people's sorrow.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43404161)

Far to many people are not skeptical enough about skepticism...

Man's authority is worthy of nothing but skepticism..

...your joy causes other people's sorrow.

It causes sorrow only in those who want control and authority, and I don't sympathize with them. Joy is not zero sum. There's plenty for everybody. It is as infinite as anything can be. If there is purpose, it will find me. It is not for man to decide what it is, or whether it exists at all, outside his own self.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43404777)

And that includes the authority of skepticism, which is after all, only based on man's authority.

Joy is not zero sum, true, but if the only purpose that ever finds you is joy, then all you actually have is found a way to make the world a worse place for everybody else.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43406877)

Skepticism is the antithesis of authority, making it infinitely more valuable in every way.

...if the only purpose that ever finds you is joy, then all you actually have is found a way to make the world a worse place for everybody else.

Who is filling your head with this nonsense?? The ill logic is debilitating.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43407283)

Skepticism is the antithesis of authority Says the authority on skepticism. See the problem yet?
 
  Who is filling your head with this nonsense??
 
Nobody needs to, I can see it lived out in the lives of those who fail to understand the purpose of authority, and everybody around them whose lives they destroy.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year and a half ago | (#43407411)

You know, the brain has to invert everything the eyes see, and has to block most of the ambient 'noise' in our ears hear. These are the least of its distortions, and that's before the cultural filters take effect. I think yours is working a little harder at it.

Re:More generally, ... (1)

Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) | about a year and a half ago | (#43407737)

Yes. Working hard enough to see reality. That's the curse of the autistic- not having any inbuilt cultural filters at all and none of the standard filters of the neurotypical human brain.

That's why I grew up with so much post traumatic stress. Because I could *see* the harm neurotypicals could do with their incessant seeking of "joy".

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