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Journal $$$$$exyGal's Journal: Thanks and meat. 98

Journal by $$$$$exyGal
Thank you so much for all of your comments and suggestions last week. It was important for me to write out those thoughts. Occasionally, my brain repeatedly dances around a topic over and over again, and the only way to finally tackle the issue is to force myself to coherently write it all out. Writing out those thoughts here on Slashdot was an opportunity for me to quickly garner feedback from all you smart folks. I'll post similar thoughts in the future.

Here is one entry, among many, that I considered particularly insightful. Yes, I am in my 20's, but not for much longer.

A _slightly_ less serious issue to discuss: Do non-vegetarian people know they are eating animals ;-) ? I read this article about the FDA likely not seeking to label cloned animal meat in a special way, and it got me thinking. What if all meat was required to be labeled with the animals it contained? Would that labeling effect the sales of meat in a negative way?

Here's a poll! (for more polls, check out Em Emalb's journal)

==================================
I would not purchase meat labeled with:

A) A listing that said "Animals contained within this package: ". For example, ground beef would be labeled as "Animals contained within this package: Cows". Assume a one half inch tall font.

B) A cartoon rendition of all the animals contained within the package.

C) Stock photography of all the animals contained within the package.

D) A specific picture of the exact individual animals contained within the package. Assume a 1 inch black and white photo.

E) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they are being killed.

F) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they looked as babies.

G) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they looked while they read pornography on the toilet.

H) "This product contains animals that had a penis and/or vagina".
==================================

Assume we are talking about farmyard mammals like pigs, cows, etc. Whatta ya say!?

Signed,
Someone who is a vegetarian, but who also happens to have a deep respect for the philosophy of Ted Nugent.

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Thanks and meat. More

Thanks and meat.

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  • Seriously, it's true. I have many family members and friends who are vegetarians for many reasons: a few are co-workers affiliated with animal rights groups and PETA, some are for personal health reasons, others just are.

    I, however, really appreciate a good steak and hamburger. I love chicken, especially white meat. Seafood, in particular lobster and shrimp, tops my list.

    I'm fully aware of the ethical issues surrounding meat production in our modern age and I've read The Jungle - twice. There are m

    • I respect your opinion and appreciate that you want to know what goes in your body. Many people do not know, and do not want to know.

      I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet. You'd still buy it? You'd purchase meat that had a picture of a toilet on it? How far could we go with this ;-) ?

      How far are diehard meat fans willing to go to eat meat daily?

      • Your assumption is based on another - and very wrong - assumption that people actually pay attention to pictures on labels. Many (especially men) don't. As long as my label on meat confirms that it's kosher (i follow the laws of my culture) and doesn't contain french flag or "made in france", i don't care if it has a picture of a cow having lesbian sex with a chicken ;)
        Although, i'd probably be more likely to buy meat if it had real lesbian porno label on it ;)

        Cheers,
        DVK
        • But wouldn't you look through the labels so you could find a picture of a cow that looked tasty? I bet the healthier / cleaner cows would be more palatable.
          • I'd have no proof that the cow on the picture is the source of that meat anyway...
            Reminds me of an old russian joke:
            A guy in the store asks about some meat: "what is that stuff?"
            Store Worker: "Dog meat, 4th grade of quality"
            Guy: "Why's there wood in it?"
            SW: "4th grade dogmeat is ground together with the doghouse".

            As for healthier cows, that's one benefit of only eating kosher meat - LOTS of the things that would make the meat unkosher are specifically various unhealthy states of the animal or even its part
            • The intent of kosher slaughter is to keep animals that were not "healthy and moving" off of your plate. This is great in theory, but like much religious doctrine in the world, has been perverted to increase profits. While non-kosher cows are stunned before they are killed, their kosher counterparts are not stunned before they are killed (in most countries). If the general public were to see a kosher slaughter and a non-kosher slaughter, they would conclude that the kosher slaughter should be banned.

              Ple

              • The intent of kosher slaughter is to keep animals that were not "healthy and moving" off of your plate. This is great in theory, but like much religious doctrine in the world, has been perverted to increase profits. While non-kosher cows are stunned before they are killed, their kosher counterparts are not stunned before they are killed (in most countries). If the general public were to see a kosher slaughter and a non-kosher slaughter, they would conclude that the kosher slaughter should be banned.

                You ar
                • Yes. The "stunning" procedure is really just a hammer through the brain. Often times, the hammer misses the target and the cow just gets a beyond-imaginable excruciating head wound. Other times, the "stunning" is perfect, and parts of the animal's brain are splattered throughout the rest of the cows meaty tissues.

                  In some ways, the "kosher" style of killing seems more natural, but in a factory setting, it certainly is not. Hundreds of cows are all thrashing about in various states of arousal while slow

        • What about that cow is having lesbian sex with a

          P I G !!!!!
      • I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet. You'd still buy it? You'd purchase meat that had a picture of a toilet on it?
        The toilet wouldn't bother me, and the pornography wouldn't bother me. However if cows actually did read stuff (i.e. they were sentient) that would probably bother me.
      • I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet. You'd still buy it? You'd purchase meat that had a picture of a toilet on it? How far could we go with this ;-) ?

        Hell yeah! I grew up on a farm, worked on another. I have slaughtered animals, and then eaten them out of the freezer months later. I have slaughtered animals that not only had faces, but names.. (George, for example) and eaten them.

        I avoid certain things.. organ meats.. an
      • I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet.

        Any reason why they should? I mean what does it matter if there's a picture of a cow on a toilet? It certainly wouldn't affect my decision to buy it. Interestingly, some shops in the UK now do show a picture of the actual animal on the packaging (for the "high end" ranges, not the mass produced stuff). It's a small colour photo, maybe 40x30mm, somewhat grainy, but good enough. You can br

  • My feeling about eating is that if I can eat it, I can kill it, and I don't have a lot of respect for the attitude that killing is gross or whatever, unless you also don't eat dead animals. Therefore, I don't care what's on the package. Show pictures of cows being killed if you like, I'll still eat it. And yes, I have killed to eat. Not a cow or even a deer or anything, but I've done it, I didn't have a problem with it, and I'd do it again if the need arose.
    • Every individual has their own idea of what is gross to kill and what is gross to eat.
      1. Some people revere bugs.
      2. Some people kill bugs.
      3. Some people kill and eat bugs.
      4. Some people only eat bugs that have been killed by other people.
      5. Some people revere cows.
      6. Some people kill cows.
      7. Some people kill and eat cows.
      8. Some people only eat cows that have been killed by other people.

      After being a vegetarian for about 10 years, most meat looks the same as bugs to me. When someone orders a pizza wi

    • Well sorry to burst everyones bubble. But I solemnly swear to become a vegetarian - the day lions, cheetah's and leopards do.
      And don't tell me primates are not meant to be carnivores either, smile in the mirror - you have an omnivores teeth - your body is designed to eat meat.
      In fact, I live in Africa, and I can promisse you that baboons hunt gazelle, I have seen them do it myself.

      Why is it more wrong for a human to eat an animal, than for another animal to do it ? Human's despite our greatest believes may
      • In fact, I live in Africa, and I can promisse you that baboons hunt gazelle, I have seen them do it myself.

        Here's more info. [szgdocent.org]

        Why is it more wrong for a human to eat an animal, than for another animal to do it.

        Personally, I find absolutely nothing wrong with humans eating animals. I've weighed the pros and cons of my own body eating animals, and I've chosen not to. My thought process was roughly this:

        • I do not like watching animals that I can imagine being, suffer.
        • If I can avoid causing anima
        • That has to be the single most rational thing I have ever heard a vegetarian say. Congratulations.

          I might add, that at least here in Africa, and at least in my culture (which is highly carnivorous) we have two requisite rules:
          A) Never kill what you won't eat. Never waste what you killed. Simply: we considder it wrong to go "trophy hunting" for the sport of it. If we kill something (even for sport) we eat it.
          B) Never ever let an animal suffer more than what is absolutely needed. If the best weapon you have

  • No offense, but none of those labeling systems would stop me from eating meat. A picture of the cow having sex with Billy Joe Bob Farmer might stop me. A picture of its behind after the goatse.cx guy finished with it might stop me, but not the ones you mentioned. I also think (D) is a good idea, but in color. Then I may be able to tell if they give the creature a bath. I like my meat clean! :-)

    Maybe I'm the wrong person for this poll. I have seriously considered if I ever get enough money, I'll have a nic

    • I would like to see a labeling system where they show a picture of the cow after it was slaughtered. If it's a picture of an animal which has been rotting in the sun for days covered in flies, then I'm not buying it.

      If such a labeling system were developed and enforced, I bet less meat would be purchased in the short-run. In the long-run the conditions of the live cows would probaby improve. This experiment will never take place, however, because it would make the price of meat go up. If meat prices go

      • If such a labeling system were developed and enforced, I bet less meat would be purchased in the short-run. In the long-run the conditions of the live cows would probaby improve. This experiment will never take place, however, because it would make the price of meat go up. If meat prices go up, people will freak out instead of just eating something else.

        Expect to see them go up quite a bit by the end of summer. Beef prices usually go up in grilling season, because people tend to buy much larger and more e
    • Deer is one of the finest of meats. Especially if you are a fan of that gamey taste. I too am a big meat fan. I have worked in animal production and have seen them every step of the way. BTW, watch out for cows in heat, they will try to mount you. There isn't anything you could put on a package of meat that would keep me from buying it. I find that I tend to see vegetarian food in much the way that vegetarians see carnivorous food. No disrespect intended, but there is a reason we are where we are on the foo
      • Most humans will never eat deer, because deer are not docile enought to be mass-produced on factory farms. I contend that the predatory instinct in humans is something that most people prefer to suppress:
        1. Most people prefer that their meat be given to them in pre-cooked bite-sized proportions.
        2. 99% of the meat eaten by modern humans is grown on a farm.
        3. The majority of meat eaters would be perfectly happy to eat good tasting meat if it were grown on a tree.

        If you prefer to embrace your inner preda

        • Nah, that's just cause we're lazy. I don't have the time or equipment to butcher my own meat, but i bet it would be fun as a special event. Earlier this year i got to eat venison that came straight from the hunter, and there was a certain thrill to being "closer" to the hunt.

          Great point about pepperoni/bugs, btw. It goes a long way towards helping me understand vegetarians.
        • Most humans will never eat deer, because deer are not docile enought to be mass-produced on factory farms. I contend that the predatory instinct in humans is something that most people prefer to suppress.

          Deer, along with ostrich, buffalo, emu, etc. is actually farm raised in the US. Almost any venison in a restaurant was raised on a farm. I've actually seen venison steaks for sale in a market before. Generally you only see this in fancy gourmet markets or in exotic meats stores, but it is there.
        • Most humans will never eat deer, because deer are not docile enought to be mass-produced on factory farms.

          And I contend that someone here is misinformed. A quick google would find the following list right at the top:
          Shaffer Farms [shafferfarms.com]
          Marshall Green Deer Farm [vic.gov.au]
          Ontario Elk & Deer Farmers [ontariodee...armers.com]
          Adirondack Venison [avenison.com]
          DeerFarms.com [deerfarms.com]

          And that took all of 2 minutes to find and post. But my point is, if you think wild animals are not docile, you're not around them much. And conversely, if you think domesticated
          • And I contend that someone here is misinformed. A quick google would find the following list right at the top ...

            I should have been more clear when I said "factory farm". I didn't look at all the places you mentioned, but the few I looked at appeared to be relatively small family run farms that raise deer for meat. When I use the term "factory farm", I'm talking about the huge industrial farms that produce thousands and thousands and thousands of animals. I don't think there are any "factory farms" tha

    • Maybe I'm the wrong person for this poll. I have seriously considered if I ever get enough money, I'll have a nice wide pen where I can chase and kill the animals with various bladed weapons, then throw them on the BBQ. I was thinking cows, but they would be to slow and not fun. Maybe deer? I like to fight for my food. I haven't tasted deer meat though...is it any good? I know, I'm evil. You may now mark me as 'foe'. Move along.

      Have you ever dealt with a threatened cow? Specifically, a Black Angus? If yo

      • I guess I was thinking deer would be smaller and more agile. If the day comes, I'll have to try both.

        Im a little pissed that in my state you can hunt dear with a 12 gauge, but not a spear.

        Them darn park wardens and their regulations. Once I was hunting buffalo with my shoulder mounted nuke, and they stopped me. Had a whole heard in my sights too!

        More seriously, you may be on to something. I haven't been on a deer hunt, but I don't see much fun in waiting in bushes to shoot an animal two miles away. Ma

        • I was thinking I'd spend hunting season this year drinking animal beer and getting drunk, tearing up the roads in my 4x4 pickup, and hootin' and hollerin' my lungs out half the night like a dumbass and then sit around all afternoon with a hang over and bitch about the shortage of game in the area.

          *smirk*

          I consider myself (or I used to anyway) a pretty damn good shot with a high-powered rifle, and I've always wanted to go hunting and bring home a freezer full of deer or something. Every time hunting seaso
  • The only thing any of those might stop me from eating is a hot dog. They tast good, and I really don't want to know what is in them.
    • You already know what is in them, but you still eat them ;-). Trust me though -- nowadays, the difference between the contents of a hotdog and a McDonald's Hamburger is very minimal.
      • Trust me though -- nowadays, the difference between the contents of a hotdog and a McDonald's Hamburger is very minimal.

        You assume most of us will actually eat hamburgers at McDonald's. I will admit to getting breakfast there when I'm on the road, but only because they have decent coffee and Starbuck's isn't everywhere yet.

        I do like a good hotdog, however I usually either get sausages (Johnsonville, a local italian brand, etc.) or kosher beef franks. While I'm sure there are things in there I'd rather n
  • I don't eat meat, you insensitive clod!
    Regarding your question, I have small hopes for labelling to affect the choices non-vegetarians have made. In general, they very much know what animals they are eating, and what those animals looked like when they were infants. One of the things I find increasingly frightening with the world is the ability we get to shut the world out, and disregard things we don't want to see or know, be it meat or starving children.
    • Regarding your question, I have small hopes for labelling to affect the choices non-vegetarians have made.

      I'm not so sure. The non-vegetarian slashdotters that have posted so far say they would eat meat regardless of the labelling, but I don't think the general public would agree. I'm not suggesting the general public are all closet vegetarians, I'm suggesting that the general public fear changes on their meat labeling. In the short-term, the general public will choose non-cloned meat over cloned meat

      • I'd think the general public is sensitive to certain kinds of labeling, for instance in Sweden, where I live, i know that most people purchasing meat checks the labels to get domestically produced meat (because of the mad cow disease, belgian blue et al). Here, the labelling affects their shopping habits, but this is an issue of perceived personal health, ie fear of mad cow disease and genetically engineered mammals. The general public here will, on occasion change shopping habits due to emotional reasons,
        • However, going from this to giving up meat completely is a task too steep for the majority of people to undertake, I'd think.

          Agreed. It's also a bad idea for anyone to just outright stop eating meat. It's something that people should gradually do at their own pace. Start off by skipping McDonalds hamburgers.

    • You assume in error that the vegetarians are the educated ones, and the carnivores are ignorant. Well, most of us know exactly what we're eating, and those who don't probably wouldn't change.

      I'm against animal cruelty as much as the next guy, but it comes down to this: through the entire existence of Life itself, those creatures that have cared more about themselves than others have done a better job of not dying. Skip ahead a few years, and you arrive at me. Sucks to be those animals, but I'm not going to
      • Whoops, I read "small" as "some" in your post. Guess I look like a condescending ass now.
      • Most of the vegetarian arguments are full of holes, and the only one I honestly support is "I don't like meat." Fair enough.

        Here's a few reasons I'd prefer for you to be a vegetarian:

        1. Less cruelty to animals.
        2. The more vegetarians there are, the more vegetarian choices there will be at restaurants.

        If you truly abhor the choice of vegetarianism in your life, then I still request that you avoid animal products "grown" at factory farms.

        Any diet will be healthy or unhealthy depending on how much ef

        • Well, does my being sverely partial to organic, free-range meat make me any less of a terrible guy? I really have no idea how much difference that makes in the consumed animals' lives, but they are certainly far more tasty.
        • The big problem with animal farming isn't really that it is cruel to the animals. They are getting cut up and then chewed, there doesn't seem to be much worse you could do...

          The problem that people should have with animal farms is the massive amount of effluent generated. Chicken and pig warehouses are massive sources of pollution and are creating signifigant problems in many of our waterways.

          It is hard to take the cruelty argument outside the realm of personal opinion. If you think a chicken suffers, I pr

  • Having said that, I will happily tuck into 'veggie' meals. Even tofu holds no fear for me. Oh, and I go for free-range or organically-produced meat wherever possible.
  • Are you trying to tell me that if you buy (for example) sausages in America, that it does not list in the ingredients what type of meat is contained within?

    Pork Sausages, ingredients:
    Sawdust, flavour-enhancer, spices, salt, mutton, mutton, mutton, pork.

    I don't know about you, but around here EVERYTHING contains mutton. Yuch. I'd be thrilled if they would put pictures of the relevant animals used on the packaging. It would explain a lot. (I'd also expect a fair few products to end up with pictures of cat a
    • Are you trying to tell me that if you buy (for example) sausages in America, that it does not list in the ingredients what type of meat is contained within?

      I'm not completely sure it is listed (I don't buy meat), but I suspect it is. I know for sure, though, that it isn't usually written in a half-inch size font.

      "Hey kids look, today we are eating Bessie the cow! That's her in the picture there, see how healthy and fat she looks!"

      The healthy and fat looking cows would go for a premium that most cons

      • The healthy and fat looking cows would go for a premium that most consumers wouldn't be prepared to pay. Most parents feed their children the cheap meat, and only eat the premium meat when the children are with the babysitter.

        I think that depends somewhat. The cheap meat isn't always the lowest quality either. Very often it is simply a less-popular cut or in a form considered less convienient. For example whole chickens are typically cheaper than boneless skinless breasts. Also consider the cost differenc
    • Are you trying to tell me that if you buy (for example) sausages in America, that it does not list in the ingredients what type of meat is contained within?

      Pork Sausages, ingredients:
      Sawdust, flavour-enhancer, spices, salt, mutton, mutton, mutton, pork.

      Looks like a typical US hotdog label except it would be chicken instead of mutton, and would have "MSG, high fructose corn syrup, preservatives, artificial color, artificial flavor, and nitrates" as well.
  • I guess I'd be completely unaffected by extra labeling.. I grew up on a farm, so we had animals that we raised from birth to slaughter. It's part of what gets done. Instead of hunting the food down, like our ancestors did, they grow up on the confines of a small farm. Well, small as farms go, large for the space they wander.

    Every time someone asks me how I can eat rare steak, I try to help them understand, in our not too distant past, there were no nuts&berry vegetarian's. Tribes of humans (y
    • I guess I'd be completely unaffected by extra labeling.. I grew up on a farm, so we had animals that we raised from birth to slaughter.

      If I grew up on a farm such as you did, I'd probably not be a vegetarian today. In most likelihood, I'd have grown accustomed to the slaughtering method, and it wouldn't bother me. Humans can get used to and accept anything, especially if they are introduced to the concept at an early age. If I was born on a farm that regularly slaughtered humans, cats, and dogs for hu

      • I agree with you there. In modern times, though, if you don't cook your meat, you are much more likely to be infected by bacteria. So I'm told by the media.

        Yes and no. If you kill meat yourself and butcher it properly there is very little risk of anything other than trichinosis from certain animals like bear(btw most trichinosis cases in the US are from game and not pork nowdays).

        You can even eat pre-packaged meat from the store raw depending on the meat and the cut. With seafood or whole cuts of meat th
      • > if you don't cook your meat, you
        > are much more likely to be infected
        > by bacteria

        I'm pretty sure that's the result of thousands of years of evolution, or whatever it is in that time frame, lessening our ability to eat bacteria, since we started cooking meat (which I'm pretty sure we started because it tastes better). An animal can eat meat that would kill you dead, without so much as a tummy ache. I doubt that we were always so weak in the stomach.

        That said, I'd prefer to cook anyway. The t
        • I'm pretty sure that's the result of thousands of years of evolution, or whatever it is in that time frame, lessening our ability to eat bacteria, since we started cooking meat

          I'm more inclined to think the problem is due to factory farming. This problem would be enhanced if animals are cloned. With less diversity, and extremely close conditions, viruses and bacteria will spread like there's no tomorrow. The slaughtering, packing, and shipping methods of the 21st century are also ticking time bombs.

          T

          • But that same factory packed meat won't kill my dog. OK, I don't feed him raw meat, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hurt him.

            And I'm having a problem believing modern factory packed meat is the problem. You're trying to tell me that killing a wild animal in the forest would be cleaner (to the point of being safe to eat raw). Farm animals are kept very healthy. Wild animals carry parasites and deseases and all sorts of bad stuff. They eat things you wouldn't want to know about, nor would I. Farm anima
            • Now if you want to tell me that meat packing plants around the turn of the 20th century were just big bacteria breeding farms, that I would believe. A lot has changed since then.

              If you really believe things have changed that much for the better, I recommend you read Fast Food Nation [amazon.com]. The book is very popular, and I'm sure is partially responsible for some of the changes currently happening in the industry. The book is very educational, and extremely entertaining to read.

              I'm willing to bet McDonald's m

  • Here it is, WHY VEGAN? [vegan-info.com]
    Note, the first page is okay, but once you click the "Transformation of animals into food" link, it get graphic- just a warning for the squeamish.

    So I had that pamphlet sitting in my room all through college (I used to run with the Vegetarian crew, cuz they were cool and MOSTLY because they would cook scrumptious things for me!)- cuz I thought it was incredible in its graphicness. That didn't stop me from eating COw, pork, tripe, tendon, and chickens feet, but it balanced out my awa
    • In regards to the website you mentioned, factory farming animals is certainly disgusting.

      I rarely attempt to persuade anyone else to become a vegetarian, because I consider it to be a personal choice. There is no perfect diet for humans that causes absolutely no suffering to anything else. Every single vegetarian/vegan/etc that says that their eating habits are somehow better than someone else's eating habits is living in a fantasy world. In the real world, things aren't black and white. The real worl

      • that reminds me...
        Whole foods (a.k.a. Fresh Fields) has cruelty free veal- no shit. Well, I mean, they kill 'em in the end, BUT they don't keep them in boxes!

        My Sisters Fiance is a store manager and he's even been to the farms.
  • and Grill It!!

    Growing Animals for food is no different than growing Vegetables for food, IMO.
    • It's all a matter of personal opinion, which has usually been shaped by your personal experiences. IMO, growing animals for food should be done differently than growing plants for food.

      By all means, if you kill it yourself, and you grill it yourself, then you are in many ways a better person than I.

    • Ted Nugent is the man!

      I just love how his pro-gun, pro-hunting, pro-meat views seem to give many others in the entertainment industry fits.

  • wow! (Score:2)

    by XO ( 250276 )
    Thanks for the article on the Nuge! Although I've only met him a few times (he has an incredible memory for people!), he's basically treated like family.. within my family. lol

    Everyone loves him, but my dad, who is major anti-hunting for some unknown reason.

    Obviously Ted stands for a lot more than just hunting though - he is about the right to bear arms, he is about freedom in many different ways - not just about killing animals for sport. In fact, he's not about that at all.

    And I'm very impressed th
    • Thanks for the article on the Nuge!

      You're welcome :). To be honest, I read the article about a year ago, and I don't remember all of it. But I do remember that I agreed with a lot of stuff that he said. He hates McDonalds for all the right reasons.

      Quite a remarkable person. I do not agree with everything he says, but he makes really really good arguments.

      • Re:wow! (Score:2)

        by XO ( 250276 )
        Sometimes he can just be an absolute pig of a man (see if you can find sometime, the story he tells about the night he wrote the song Wango Tango), but he's definitely taken his part of the world in his own way. Charismatic as all get out, I think my dad would even like him, but the step-brother can't get my dad to meet him.. lol

        (my step-brother works at a gun shop and sells guns to Ted.. this is how I know him.. and he owns a house that my ex- used to live next door to, so she knew him as well.. it's r
  • I doubt any of this would dissuade me from eating any form of meat.

    I might buy free-range and organic meats more often but that is about it.
  • If God didn't want us to eat animals,

    then why did He make them out of meat, and make them soooooo tasty?
    • Perhaps God made us omnivorians so we would have the opportunity to choose.
      • Mary had a little lamb...

        But I ate it.

        *Burp!*
      • Perhaps God made us omnivorians so we would have the opportunity to choose

        BINGO! The gal nails it on the head. An all red meat diet is not good for you. But I _defy_ any vegan/vegetarian/whatever to go to the "breadbasket" of america.. (Hell.. go ANYWHERE) and subsist entirely off the land, without eating ANY meat, and be healthy. Good luck!

        There are a lot of myths about meat.. like the heart disease one.. (not proven.. and atkins diet people have only been at it for @ 20 years.. not long enough for the
        • >> veggie burger or veggie hotdog (which I dont
          >> think vegetarians should be eating anyway...

          Oh how I agree with that one! My ex's parents were vegetarians, and half of what they ate was veggie this and veggie that. It drove me nuts! The stuff doesn't taste much like meat, that's for damn sure, and it doesn't fill you up like meat either. If you're going to be a vegetarian, EAT VEGETABLE. If you want to taste meat, then EAT MEAT.
          • If you're going to be a vegetarian, EAT VEGETABLE. If you want to taste meat, then EAT MEAT.

            Ok.

            Dude.

            BTW, why do non-vegetarians shape their meat into small vegetable-like proportions? Hot dogs? Chicken nuggets? Buffalo wings? If you truly like hot dogs, then you should be eating them in their natural anus-form. Stop shaping them into the shape of carrots. Thank you.

            • I've probably been trolled, but... You're being rediculous. Hot dogs are shaped like they are because they're a sausage, which is made (originally) by filling sections of intestine with ground animal parts. Not such a bad idea, if it gets the less desirable parts (such as the anus your refer to) eaten. Dead animals are more scarce than veggies and so it makes sense to use *all* of the animal, not just the yummiest parts. At what point do you propose the sausage was ever meant to look like a carrot? And
  • My sister has a dog. Said dog like typical doggie style (Hey, stay focused!) treats and toys. In particular Cooper (that's the dog's name) likes raw-hide chips. He can make one totally soggy in about five minutes and make it disappear in ten. This means my sister purchases raw-hide chips in industrial size bags. These bags used to say "Made with real cow-hide" on them in big excited letters. Yesterday I visited my sister a caught a glimpse of Cooper's latest bag of chips. The new packaging doesn't say "raw-
    • What, cows are made of beef?

      How come we don't eat them all?

    • The film starts. "The Meat Council Presents: `Meat and You: Partners in Freedom'. Number 3F03 [slashdot.org] in the `Resistance is Useless' series." Open on
      cattle country.
      Troy: Nothing beats a stroll in cattle country. Hi, I'm Troy McClure.
      You may remember me from such educational films as "Two Minus
      Three Equals Negative Fun" and "Firecrackers: The Silent Killer".
      Jimmy: Mr. McClure?
      Troy: Oh! Hello Bobby.

      Jimmy: Jimmy. I'm curious as to how meat gets from the ranch to my
      stomach.
      T
  • Are you trying to establish whether people would develop some sort of ethical objection to eating meat if they were presented with labels that made them think about what they're eating and how it's prepared, or merely whether they'd experience a strong enough visceral reaction to put them off meat until such time as they became desensitized?

    I think many people would have a relatively hard time consuming an animal that they'd seen slaughtered and butchered compared to consuming the same animal if it were pr
  • you left out a choice for those of us who would eat the food regardless of any labels such as those. I am well aware of where the chicken i just ate came from and what the animal looks like. I used to have a pet hen. (we found it trapped and hurt after a storm). I think it's important for people to recognise and appreciate where their food is coming from, but i dont necessarily think that should stop them from eating.

    I have a question for you, though. This isnt supposed to be a belligerent question so plea
    • Why distinguish between the lives of animals and the lives of plants?

      For me, it's an obvious distinction. If I can imagine being something, then I try not to cause it unnecessary pain. I can empathize with a cow, chicken, pig, monkey, etc, but I can't empathize with a carrot, tree, head of lettuce, soybean, etc. Simple.

      There are many many shades of gray, but I rarely need to deal with them. Can I empathize with an insect / spider? Not really. If an army of ants storms through my house, then it's m

      • One way to interpret what you say here is that you might (you're vegetarian, pretend you were omniverous for a moment) eat an animal that is ugly, but not one that you find cute, or that you find creepy looking. Does the ugly animal, or the dumb animal, or the animal you're unable to empathize with, not bleed just like any other? In other words, what has you're particular ability to empathize have to do with the worthiness of a particular animal over any other?

        I've tried to draw a parallel between all an
        • One of the most disgusting displays of raw ignorance I've ever seen is catch and release fishing.

          Amen to that.

          If you're going to drag an animal out of its habitat with a fscking big hook in its mouth, at least have the courtresy to eat it.

          We call it 'coarse fishing' in the UK - 'coarse' about sums it up.

        • In other words, what has you're particular ability to empathize have to do with the worthiness of a particular animal over any other?

          For me, there isn't anything logical about it. If I can't imagine being a particular animal, then it's impossible to feel sorry for it. I can easily imagine being any mammal or bird (regardless of whether it is "ugly").

          Everyone has their own ever-changing empathetic boundaries. Some people empathize with cats and dogs, and other people empathize with cows, and you are a

      • For me, it's an obvious distinction. If I can imagine being something, then I try not to cause it unnecessary pain. I can empathize with a cow, chicken, pig, monkey, etc, but I can't empathize with a carrot, tree, head of lettuce, soybean, etc. Simple.
        fair enough. This explanation runs somewhat parallel to my hypothesis that it is because plants are more alien to us.
        I dont necessarily empathize with plants, I just consider them equal, but different, compared to animals (and humans, for that matter).
        I also
  • My parents had some friends from college (hippies) who now live on a small family farm. We went to visit their farm once when I was 8 or so. We had pork for dinner, and one of the kids in the other family asked their mom which pig they were eating. Their mom replied with a proper name. My mom said, "Oh weird. You knew the pig that you're eating?"

    The kid said, "Yeah. I can't imagine eating an animal that I didn't know."

    People don't rationalize eating meat by denying that animals have intelligence or cutene
    • People rationalize eating meat because it's tasty, and it's what we were built to do.

      We were built with the option to choose. The human body is amazing. You can stick meat in it, and you'll stay alive. You can also just stick vegetables in it, and you'll still stay alive and healthy.

      When I live in a society in which my vegetable choices are nearly unlimited, then I choose to not feel even the tiniest pang of guilt from eating an animal. For me, not eating meat is a luxury.

      • I love meat.

        I also love fresh vegetables, with the emphasis on fresh.

        Pretty soon, my broad beans are going to be ready (it's good - it's about an 8 week season, wit ha couple of good feeds per week), followed by the runner beans.

        I'll be eating various preparations of bean for a couple of months, and when I'm eating them I won't miss the meat.

        But come September, when the fresh pulses no longer grow in the garden, I'll not enjoy the vegetables so much.

        The weird thing is, that the best meat is not fresh (it's

      • From everything that I have read on human nutrition there are two essential amino acids that are not found in very high levels in plants. How do you aquire these if you are not eating any animal products? From what I have been able to gather you are not a vegan, therefore you are getting these amino acids from other animal sources. The only reason you are able to not eat meat is because in our industrial society we have other animal products to fulfill your amino acid needs.

        Link to nutrition article. [rcn.com]

        • Most vegetarians I know actually pay attention to the food they eat. As a result, they are very careful about obtaining and absorbing all of the essential nutrients required for their own health. Being a vegetarian does not make you healthy, but the process of converting to a vegetarian will likely open your eyes to nutrition and therefore make you healthier.

          That has been my own experience as well. I look at labels and actually read what is in my products, and I try to put stuff into my body that my bo

  • I'm late coming to this thread, so it will probably be overlooked...

    But for what it's worth, as we go by the meat counter in the store, my daughter and I make the animal noises of each of the different kinds of meat that are there (e.g., pork is "oink oink oink", beef is "moooo", etc.). And yes, we buy it and cook it and eat it.

    I think it's important for her to know that her food is coming from animals that were once alive, but it's also important for her to understand her prominence at the upper eschel

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