Journal $$$$$exyGal's Journal: Thanks and meat. 98
Here is one entry, among many, that I considered particularly insightful. Yes, I am in my 20's, but not for much longer.
A _slightly_ less serious issue to discuss: Do non-vegetarian people know they are eating animals
Here's a poll! (for more polls, check out Em Emalb's journal)
==================================
I would not purchase meat labeled with:
A) A listing that said "Animals contained within this package: ". For example, ground beef would be labeled as "Animals contained within this package: Cows". Assume a one half inch tall font.
B) A cartoon rendition of all the animals contained within the package.
C) Stock photography of all the animals contained within the package.
D) A specific picture of the exact individual animals contained within the package. Assume a 1 inch black and white photo.
E) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they are being killed.
F) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they looked as babies.
G) A specific picture of the exact individual animals as they looked while they read pornography on the toilet.
H) "This product contains animals that had a penis and/or vagina".
==================================
Assume we are talking about farmyard mammals like pigs, cows, etc. Whatta ya say!?
Signed,
Someone who is a vegetarian, but who also happens to have a deep respect for the philosophy of Ted Nugent.
I live to eat meat (Score:1)
I, however, really appreciate a good steak and hamburger. I love chicken, especially white meat. Seafood, in particular lobster and shrimp, tops my list.
I'm fully aware of the ethical issues surrounding meat production in our modern age and I've read The Jungle - twice. There are m
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
I assumed that even diehards would refuse to purchase meat that had a picture of a cow browsing pornography on a toilet. You'd still buy it? You'd purchase meat that had a picture of a toilet on it? How far could we go with this ;-) ?
How far are diehard meat fans willing to go to eat meat daily?
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Although, i'd probably be more likely to buy meat if it had real lesbian porno label on it
Cheers,
DVK
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Reminds me of an old russian joke:
A guy in the store asks about some meat: "what is that stuff?"
Store Worker: "Dog meat, 4th grade of quality"
Guy: "Why's there wood in it?"
SW: "4th grade dogmeat is ground together with the doghouse".
As for healthier cows, that's one benefit of only eating kosher meat - LOTS of the things that would make the meat unkosher are specifically various unhealthy states of the animal or even its part
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Ple
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
You ar
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
In some ways, the "kosher" style of killing seems more natural, but in a factory setting, it certainly is not. Hundreds of cows are all thrashing about in various states of arousal while slow
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
P I G !!!!!
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:1)
And just how far will you go, to lead yourself into believing that crap? And to think that you/we are related to the same mankind that landed on the moon...
*Rolls eyes way back*
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Whether something can be trained to understand the difference between two differently colored shapes should not be how someone evaluates whether they should eat it.
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:1)
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Hell yeah! I grew up on a farm, worked on another. I have slaughtered animals, and then eaten them out of the freezer months later. I have slaughtered animals that not only had faces, but names.. (George, for example) and eaten them.
I avoid certain things.. organ meats.. an
Re:I live to eat meat (Score:2)
Any reason why they should? I mean what does it matter if there's a picture of a cow on a toilet? It certainly wouldn't affect my decision to buy it. Interestingly, some shops in the UK now do show a picture of the actual animal on the packaging (for the "high end" ranges, not the mass produced stuff). It's a small colour photo, maybe 40x30mm, somewhat grainy, but good enough. You can br
It wouldn't matter much (Score:2)
Re:It wouldn't matter much (Score:2)
After being a vegetarian for about 10 years, most meat looks the same as bugs to me. When someone orders a pizza wi
Re:It wouldn't matter much (Score:1)
And don't tell me primates are not meant to be carnivores either, smile in the mirror - you have an omnivores teeth - your body is designed to eat meat.
In fact, I live in Africa, and I can promisse you that baboons hunt gazelle, I have seen them do it myself.
Why is it more wrong for a human to eat an animal, than for another animal to do it ? Human's despite our greatest believes may
Re:It wouldn't matter much (Score:2)
Here's more info. [szgdocent.org]
Why is it more wrong for a human to eat an animal, than for another animal to do it.
Personally, I find absolutely nothing wrong with humans eating animals. I've weighed the pros and cons of my own body eating animals, and I've chosen not to. My thought process was roughly this:
Re:It wouldn't matter much (Score:1)
I might add, that at least here in Africa, and at least in my culture (which is highly carnivorous) we have two requisite rules:
A) Never kill what you won't eat. Never waste what you killed. Simply: we considder it wrong to go "trophy hunting" for the sport of it. If we kill something (even for sport) we eat it.
B) Never ever let an animal suffer more than what is absolutely needed. If the best weapon you have
I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
No offense, but none of those labeling systems would stop me from eating meat. A picture of the cow having sex with Billy Joe Bob Farmer might stop me. A picture of its behind after the goatse.cx guy finished with it might stop me, but not the ones you mentioned. I also think (D) is a good idea, but in color. Then I may be able to tell if they give the creature a bath. I like my meat clean! :-)
Maybe I'm the wrong person for this poll. I have seriously considered if I ever get enough money, I'll have a nic
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
If such a labeling system were developed and enforced, I bet less meat would be purchased in the short-run. In the long-run the conditions of the live cows would probaby improve. This experiment will never take place, however, because it would make the price of meat go up. If meat prices go
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
Expect to see them go up quite a bit by the end of summer. Beef prices usually go up in grilling season, because people tend to buy much larger and more e
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:1)
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
If you prefer to embrace your inner preda
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
Great point about pepperoni/bugs, btw. It goes a long way towards helping me understand vegetarians.
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
Deer, along with ostrich, buffalo, emu, etc. is actually farm raised in the US. Almost any venison in a restaurant was raised on a farm. I've actually seen venison steaks for sale in a market before. Generally you only see this in fancy gourmet markets or in exotic meats stores, but it is there.
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:1)
And I contend that someone here is misinformed. A quick google would find the following list right at the top:
Shaffer Farms [shafferfarms.com]
Marshall Green Deer Farm [vic.gov.au]
Ontario Elk & Deer Farmers [ontariodee...armers.com]
Adirondack Venison [avenison.com]
DeerFarms.com [deerfarms.com]
And that took all of 2 minutes to find and post. But my point is, if you think wild animals are not docile, you're not around them much. And conversely, if you think domesticated
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
I should have been more clear when I said "factory farm". I didn't look at all the places you mentioned, but the few I looked at appeared to be relatively small family run farms that raise deer for meat. When I use the term "factory farm", I'm talking about the huge industrial farms that produce thousands and thousands and thousands of animals. I don't think there are any "factory farms" tha
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
Have you ever dealt with a threatened cow? Specifically, a Black Angus? If yo
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
I guess I was thinking deer would be smaller and more agile. If the day comes, I'll have to try both.
Them darn park wardens and their regulations. Once I was hunting buffalo with my shoulder mounted nuke, and they stopped me. Had a whole heard in my sights too!
More seriously, you may be on to something. I haven't been on a deer hunt, but I don't see much fun in waiting in bushes to shoot an animal two miles away. Ma
Re:I would eat all of the above. (Score:2)
*smirk*
I consider myself (or I used to anyway) a pretty damn good shot with a high-powered rifle, and I've always wanted to go hunting and bring home a freezer full of deer or something. Every time hunting seaso
Hot dogs (Score:2)
Re:Hot dogs (Score:2)
Re:Hot dogs (Score:2)
You assume most of us will actually eat hamburgers at McDonald's. I will admit to getting breakfast there when I'm on the road, but only because they have decent coffee and Starbuck's isn't everywhere yet.
I do like a good hotdog, however I usually either get sausages (Johnsonville, a local italian brand, etc.) or kosher beef franks. While I'm sure there are things in there I'd rather n
labeling (Score:1)
Regarding your question, I have small hopes for labelling to affect the choices non-vegetarians have made. In general, they very much know what animals they are eating, and what those animals looked like when they were infants. One of the things I find increasingly frightening with the world is the ability we get to shut the world out, and disregard things we don't want to see or know, be it meat or starving children.
Re:labeling (Score:2)
I'm not so sure. The non-vegetarian slashdotters that have posted so far say they would eat meat regardless of the labelling, but I don't think the general public would agree. I'm not suggesting the general public are all closet vegetarians, I'm suggesting that the general public fear changes on their meat labeling. In the short-term, the general public will choose non-cloned meat over cloned meat
Re:labeling (Score:1)
Re:labeling (Score:2)
Agreed. It's also a bad idea for anyone to just outright stop eating meat. It's something that people should gradually do at their own pace. Start off by skipping McDonalds hamburgers.
Re:labeling (Score:1)
Re:labeling (Score:2)
I'm against animal cruelty as much as the next guy, but it comes down to this: through the entire existence of Life itself, those creatures that have cared more about themselves than others have done a better job of not dying. Skip ahead a few years, and you arrive at me. Sucks to be those animals, but I'm not going to
Re:labeling (Score:2)
Re:labeling (Score:2)
Here's a few reasons I'd prefer for you to be a vegetarian:
If you truly abhor the choice of vegetarianism in your life, then I still request that you avoid animal products "grown" at factory farms.
Any diet will be healthy or unhealthy depending on how much ef
Re:labeling (Score:2)
Re:labeling (Score:1)
The problem that people should have with animal farms is the massive amount of effluent generated. Chicken and pig warehouses are massive sources of pollution and are creating signifigant problems in many of our waterways.
It is hard to take the cruelty argument outside the realm of personal opinion. If you think a chicken suffers, I pr
I'm an omnivore, you insensitive clod! :-) (Score:2)
Re:I'm an omnivore, you insensitive clod! :-) (Score:2)
I love tofu.
How quaint.... (Score:2)
Pork Sausages, ingredients:
Sawdust, flavour-enhancer, spices, salt, mutton, mutton, mutton, pork.
I don't know about you, but around here EVERYTHING contains mutton. Yuch. I'd be thrilled if they would put pictures of the relevant animals used on the packaging. It would explain a lot. (I'd also expect a fair few products to end up with pictures of cat a
Re:How quaint.... (Score:2)
I'm not completely sure it is listed (I don't buy meat), but I suspect it is. I know for sure, though, that it isn't usually written in a half-inch size font.
"Hey kids look, today we are eating Bessie the cow! That's her in the picture there, see how healthy and fat she looks!"
The healthy and fat looking cows would go for a premium that most cons
Re:How quaint.... (Score:2)
I think that depends somewhat. The cheap meat isn't always the lowest quality either. Very often it is simply a less-popular cut or in a form considered less convienient. For example whole chickens are typically cheaper than boneless skinless breasts. Also consider the cost differenc
Re:How quaint.... (Score:2)
Pork Sausages, ingredients:
Sawdust, flavour-enhancer, spices, salt, mutton, mutton, mutton, pork.
Looks like a typical US hotdog label except it would be chicken instead of mutton, and would have "MSG, high fructose corn syrup, preservatives, artificial color, artificial flavor, and nitrates" as well.
meat! (Score:2)
Every time someone asks me how I can eat rare steak, I try to help them understand, in our not too distant past, there were no nuts&berry vegetarian's. Tribes of humans (y
Re:meat! (Score:2)
If I grew up on a farm such as you did, I'd probably not be a vegetarian today. In most likelihood, I'd have grown accustomed to the slaughtering method, and it wouldn't bother me. Humans can get used to and accept anything, especially if they are introduced to the concept at an early age. If I was born on a farm that regularly slaughtered humans, cats, and dogs for hu
Re:meat! (Score:2)
Yes and no. If you kill meat yourself and butcher it properly there is very little risk of anything other than trichinosis from certain animals like bear(btw most trichinosis cases in the US are from game and not pork nowdays).
You can even eat pre-packaged meat from the store raw depending on the meat and the cut. With seafood or whole cuts of meat th
Re:meat! (Score:2)
> are much more likely to be infected
> by bacteria
I'm pretty sure that's the result of thousands of years of evolution, or whatever it is in that time frame, lessening our ability to eat bacteria, since we started cooking meat (which I'm pretty sure we started because it tastes better). An animal can eat meat that would kill you dead, without so much as a tummy ache. I doubt that we were always so weak in the stomach.
That said, I'd prefer to cook anyway. The t
Re:meat! (Score:2)
I'm more inclined to think the problem is due to factory farming. This problem would be enhanced if animals are cloned. With less diversity, and extremely close conditions, viruses and bacteria will spread like there's no tomorrow. The slaughtering, packing, and shipping methods of the 21st century are also ticking time bombs.
T
Re:meat! (Score:2)
And I'm having a problem believing modern factory packed meat is the problem. You're trying to tell me that killing a wild animal in the forest would be cleaner (to the point of being safe to eat raw). Farm animals are kept very healthy. Wild animals carry parasites and deseases and all sorts of bad stuff. They eat things you wouldn't want to know about, nor would I. Farm anima
Re:meat! (Score:2)
If you really believe things have changed that much for the better, I recommend you read Fast Food Nation [amazon.com]. The book is very popular, and I'm sure is partially responsible for some of the changes currently happening in the industry. The book is very educational, and extremely entertaining to read.
I'm willing to bet McDonald's m
the "Why Vegan?" Pamphlet... (Score:2)
Note, the first page is okay, but once you click the "Transformation of animals into food" link, it get graphic- just a warning for the squeamish.
So I had that pamphlet sitting in my room all through college (I used to run with the Vegetarian crew, cuz they were cool and MOSTLY because they would cook scrumptious things for me!)- cuz I thought it was incredible in its graphicness. That didn't stop me from eating COw, pork, tripe, tendon, and chickens feet, but it balanced out my awa
Re:the "Why Vegan?" Pamphlet... (Score:2)
I rarely attempt to persuade anyone else to become a vegetarian, because I consider it to be a personal choice. There is no perfect diet for humans that causes absolutely no suffering to anything else. Every single vegetarian/vegan/etc that says that their eating habits are somehow better than someone else's eating habits is living in a fantasy world. In the real world, things aren't black and white. The real worl
Re:the "Why Vegan?" Pamphlet... (Score:2)
Whole foods (a.k.a. Fresh Fields) has cruelty free veal- no shit. Well, I mean, they kill 'em in the end, BUT they don't keep them in boxes!
My Sisters Fiance is a store manager and he's even been to the farms.
Kill it... (Score:1)
Growing Animals for food is no different than growing Vegetables for food, IMO.
Re:Kill it... (Score:2)
By all means, if you kill it yourself, and you grill it yourself, then you are in many ways a better person than I.
Re:Kill it... (Score:2)
I just love how his pro-gun, pro-hunting, pro-meat views seem to give many others in the entertainment industry fits.
wow! (Score:2)
Everyone loves him, but my dad, who is major anti-hunting for some unknown reason.
Obviously Ted stands for a lot more than just hunting though - he is about the right to bear arms, he is about freedom in many different ways - not just about killing animals for sport. In fact, he's not about that at all.
And I'm very impressed th
Re:wow! (Score:2)
You're welcome :). To be honest, I read the article about a year ago, and I don't remember all of it. But I do remember that I agreed with a lot of stuff that he said. He hates McDonalds for all the right reasons.
Quite a remarkable person. I do not agree with everything he says, but he makes really really good arguments.
Re:wow! (Score:2)
(my step-brother works at a gun shop and sells guns to Ted.. this is how I know him.. and he owns a house that my ex- used to live next door to, so she knew him as well.. it's r
I. None of the above (Score:2)
I might buy free-range and organic meats more often but that is about it.
Re:I. None of the above (Score:2)
Here is a question to ponder: (Score:1)
then why did He make them out of meat, and make them soooooo tasty?
Re:Here is a question to ponder: (Score:2)
Re:Here is a question to ponder: (Score:2)
But I ate it.
*Burp!*
Re:Here is a question to ponder: (Score:2)
BINGO! The gal nails it on the head. An all red meat diet is not good for you. But I _defy_ any vegan/vegetarian/whatever to go to the "breadbasket" of america.. (Hell.. go ANYWHERE) and subsist entirely off the land, without eating ANY meat, and be healthy. Good luck!
There are a lot of myths about meat.. like the heart disease one.. (not proven.. and atkins diet people have only been at it for @ 20 years.. not long enough for the
Re:Here is a question to ponder: (Score:2)
>> think vegetarians should be eating anyway...
Oh how I agree with that one! My ex's parents were vegetarians, and half of what they ate was veggie this and veggie that. It drove me nuts! The stuff doesn't taste much like meat, that's for damn sure, and it doesn't fill you up like meat either. If you're going to be a vegetarian, EAT VEGETABLE. If you want to taste meat, then EAT MEAT.
Re:Here is a question to ponder: (Score:2)
Ok.
Dude.
BTW, why do non-vegetarians shape their meat into small vegetable-like proportions? Hot dogs? Chicken nuggets? Buffalo wings? If you truly like hot dogs, then you should be eating them in their natural anus-form. Stop shaping them into the shape of carrots. Thank you.
Re:Here is a question to ponder: (Score:2)
Re:Here is a question to ponder: (Score:1)
Here's a tidbit... (Score:2)
Re:Here's a tidbit... (Score:1)
How come we don't eat them all?
You asked what children are learning in school :) (Score:2)
The film starts. "The Meat Council Presents: `Meat and You: Partners in Freedom'. Number 3F03 [slashdot.org] in the `Resistance is Useless' series." Open on
cattle country.
Troy: Nothing beats a stroll in cattle country. Hi, I'm Troy McClure.
You may remember me from such educational films as "Two Minus
Three Equals Negative Fun" and "Firecrackers: The Silent Killer".
Jimmy: Mr. McClure?
Troy: Oh! Hello Bobby.
Jimmy: Jimmy. I'm curious as to how meat gets from the ranch to my
stomach.
T
I'm not sure I see the point (Score:2)
I think many people would have a relatively hard time consuming an animal that they'd seen slaughtered and butchered compared to consuming the same animal if it were pr
you left out a choice (Score:2)
I have a question for you, though. This isnt supposed to be a belligerent question so plea
Re:you left out a choice (Score:2)
For me, it's an obvious distinction. If I can imagine being something, then I try not to cause it unnecessary pain. I can empathize with a cow, chicken, pig, monkey, etc, but I can't empathize with a carrot, tree, head of lettuce, soybean, etc. Simple.
There are many many shades of gray, but I rarely need to deal with them. Can I empathize with an insect / spider? Not really. If an army of ants storms through my house, then it's m
Re:you left out a choice (Score:2)
I've tried to draw a parallel between all an
Re:you left out a choice (Score:2)
Amen to that.
If you're going to drag an animal out of its habitat with a fscking big hook in its mouth, at least have the courtresy to eat it.
We call it 'coarse fishing' in the UK - 'coarse' about sums it up.
Re:you left out a choice (Score:2)
For me, there isn't anything logical about it. If I can't imagine being a particular animal, then it's impossible to feel sorry for it. I can easily imagine being any mammal or bird (regardless of whether it is "ugly").
Everyone has their own ever-changing empathetic boundaries. Some people empathize with cats and dogs, and other people empathize with cows, and you are a
Re:you left out a choice (Score:2)
fair enough. This explanation runs somewhat parallel to my hypothesis that it is because plants are more alien to us.
I dont necessarily empathize with plants, I just consider them equal, but different, compared to animals (and humans, for that matter).
I also
Family friends (Score:2)
The kid said, "Yeah. I can't imagine eating an animal that I didn't know."
People don't rationalize eating meat by denying that animals have intelligence or cutene
Re:Family friends (Score:2)
We were built with the option to choose. The human body is amazing. You can stick meat in it, and you'll stay alive. You can also just stick vegetables in it, and you'll still stay alive and healthy.
When I live in a society in which my vegetable choices are nearly unlimited, then I choose to not feel even the tiniest pang of guilt from eating an animal. For me, not eating meat is a luxury.
Re:Family friends (Score:2)
I also love fresh vegetables, with the emphasis on fresh.
Pretty soon, my broad beans are going to be ready (it's good - it's about an 8 week season, wit ha couple of good feeds per week), followed by the runner beans.
I'll be eating various preparations of bean for a couple of months, and when I'm eating them I won't miss the meat.
But come September, when the fresh pulses no longer grow in the garden, I'll not enjoy the vegetables so much.
The weird thing is, that the best meat is not fresh (it's
Re:Family friends (Score:1)
From everything that I have read on human nutrition there are two essential amino acids that are not found in very high levels in plants. How do you aquire these if you are not eating any animal products? From what I have been able to gather you are not a vegan, therefore you are getting these amino acids from other animal sources. The only reason you are able to not eat meat is because in our industrial society we have other animal products to fulfill your amino acid needs.
Link to nutrition article. [rcn.com]
Re:Family friends (Score:2)
That has been my own experience as well. I look at labels and actually read what is in my products, and I try to put stuff into my body that my bo
Better late than never (Score:2)
But for what it's worth, as we go by the meat counter in the store, my daughter and I make the animal noises of each of the different kinds of meat that are there (e.g., pork is "oink oink oink", beef is "moooo", etc.). And yes, we buy it and cook it and eat it.
I think it's important for her to know that her food is coming from animals that were once alive, but it's also important for her to understand her prominence at the upper eschel