Journal Chacham's Journal: Why i argue 21
I argue a lot. People know that. Or at least i *think* they do.
Recently, in a newgropup someone said to me:
You can redefine anything you want according to your personal definition, and be right. But don't expect such practices to help you have a meaningful dialogue.
To which i replied:
I don't want dialogue, that's boring. I want an argument. One person states what he feels, I state what I feel, and then we try to show why the other opinion is incorrect. In the end, much is learnt, and the brain is thoroughly excersized.
That says it. I've argued before with others, that the best way to come to a conclusion is to find two people who passionately believe in opposing conclusions, but who are rational and want to argue. With such passion behind the opposing viewpoints, the opinions will get attacked from all sides, and only the truth will survive. People disagree, saying that it should be a discussion and not an arguement. The Fs say this so there is harmony. To which i agree, but mention that they do not take it personally. They just argue until conclusion, but of course stay friends.
The Ps say this is bad, since it must be a "discussion". IIRC, Meyers pointed out that Ps would rather not make a judgement. They want to see the thing from all sides, with a belief that the truth will become clear on its own. And will all aspects being covered, that is an excellent form of truth! Js, however, want to argue. As each point comes up it is either true or untrue. If true, the argument is over, if untrue, another point is evaluated.
As a J, the latter method is more enjoyable. As an INTJ, i take it to the extereme. Unfortunately, most people won't play. It's my loss. Oh well.
I have floated an idea of having a website that records and facilitates arguements. Whether possible or not, it's a dream i cannot ignore.
yes and no (Score:1)
if the dialogue includes listening and understanding, there doesn't need to be an argument to convey ideas. thinking exists outside of conflict. contrariwise, people can argue, but if they don't listen, neither participant is any wiser at the end. of course, these examples depend on whether they meet your definitions of dialogue and argument. to me a debate is not the same as an argument, and talking, discussion, and dialogue all have distinct mea
arguement is better than debate (Score:3, Interesting)
because arguement starts with the important parts rather than trying to butter them up with the little parts first. You have to start with the meat of the subject, not the garnish.
Re:arguement is better than debate (Score:2)
because arguement starts with the important parts rather than trying to butter them up with the little parts first. You have to start with the meat of the subject, not the garnish.
Interesting!
However, sometimes buttering up is required in order to get true appreciation.
For example. If someone were
Re:arguement is better than debate (Score:2)
Re:arguement is better than debate (Score:2)
For a moment there, I could have sworn I was reading a transcript's of one of Humphrey Lyttleton [bbc.co.uk]'s explanations of Pick Up Song [isihac.co.uk], from the radio show `I'm Sorry I Haven't A [isihac.co.uk]
Re:arguement is better than debate (Score:2)
Re:arguement is better than debate (Score:2)
Re:arguement is better than debate (Score:2)
All of which (Score:1)
Does that make somebody who makes a concept appealing saucy?
Anyway, you guys better watch out or some vegan will show up and protest your use of politically incorrect metaphors.
Rustin
Re:All of which (Score:2)
Re:All of which (Score:2)
Re:All of which (Score:2)
argument? (Score:1)
Sorry, someone just needed to fill the void of Python quotes that this JE was asking for.
Re:argument? (Score:2)
Did you mean Monty Python? Never found them funny....
Re:argument? (Score:1)
Yeah, Monty Python, guy goes into a place looking to pay for an argument (probably he's like you and enjoys a good one, and must go out and actually pay for a decent sparing partner) and mistakenly ends up in the room for abuse.
Never found them funny....
Don't worry, I'm sure we can find something low brow for you =^)
Re:argument? (Score:2)
That actually is cute.
Worst part is, i'd probably actually would pay for a good sparring partner.
Re:argument? (Score:2)
I thought that you were here in NYC or nearby.
I'll oblige for the cost of dinner. But I'm warning you, I'm slower but *much* more relentless in person.
P.S. No kosher pizza; I have never recovered from the trauma of the eighties New York incarnations of same. That stuff *must* have been an offense against G-D somehow, it was certainly an offense against my stomach.
Rustin
Re:argument? (Score:2)
Nope, in Detroit. Though if I ever go to NYC again, maybe we can get in touch.
A quote (Score:2)
Every man...should periodically be compelled to listen to opinions which are infuriating to him. To hear nothing but what is pleasing to one is to make a pillow of the mind.
-- St. John Ervine
Re:A quote (Score:2)
Although it does wonders for self-esteem.
I disagree! (Score:1)