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Pot meet kettle

damn_registrars (1103043) writes | 1 year,10 days

First Person Shooters (Games) 22

factions remain who "want to take the law into their own hands"

You mean like George Zimmerman, who took the law into his own hands and chased down a teenage boy?

factions remain who "want to take the law into their own hands"

You mean like George Zimmerman, who took the law into his own hands and chased down a teenage boy?

Oh, wait, that quote comes from Zimmerman's brother, and he's claiming that there are hacks like his brother who want to kill his brother.

Well, if he felt safer with his gun, he can take that gun back now. That was what it was for, right?

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22 comments

Simple thought experiment: (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | 1 year,10 days | (#44285751)

Imagine same situation with a black Zimmerman and a white Martin.

Case closed in less than 60 seconds.

Instead, the jury just announced it is "open season" on young black males, if there'd been any doubt...

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | 1 year,9 days | (#44286473)

I'm actually not convinced any more that race was the main driving factor here. I am starting to wonder if the state of Florida may have intentionally done a horseshit job of presenting the prosecuting case in the hopes of not seeing a conviction. If Zimmerman had been convicted - even though his defense did not explicitly call up the "stand your ground" (SYG) law - the SYG law would have almost certainly ended up being needed to be reviewed by the state shortly afterwards. The government of the state of Florida badly did not want to go through that review so it was easier for them to do a half-assed job of presenting this case - which gave them the appearance of caring when they really didn't - than to just push everything away and have locals rioting over the state never bringing the case to trial.

Now, of course, had the triggerman been black then the state of Florida would have almost certainly pursued this matter aggressively and prepared to find a way to re-frame SYG to not be a factor so that they could have their cake (conviction for killing someone) and eat it (keep SYG) too.

In other words I'm saying the entire prosecution was a ruse from the start. State of Floriduh was just putting on a show to try to look like they care. Their interests were in seeing a verdict of not guilty returned ASAP. And of course since the victim can't talk they are entitled to present his side in whatever light they see fit when doing their dog and pony show for the courtroom.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | 1 year,9 days | (#44288081)

You will never see a black man upheld by SYG. No in the south. Not in KKKUSA. Never.

I remember Bobby Seale. I remember Huey.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,9 days | (#44289107)

Well, of course! SYG is whites only [cbsnews.com] ...

Pro tip: Do not fire "warning shots".

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

gmhowell (26755) | 1 year,9 days | (#44293697)

Why the fuck is anyone mentioning SYG? At the time of this writing, I haven't read any interviews with the jurors, so I'm not sure what the reason was for acquital. I'm assuming self defense. If that's the case, you need to address that issue, which is more alike than different, in 49 states.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

mcgrew (92797) | 1 year,7 days | (#44315725)

One of the jurors said yesterday that SYG was the reason for the verdict and said she'd like to see SYG repealed.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

gmhowell (26755) | 1 year,4 days | (#44338883)

One of the jurors said yesterday that SYG was the reason for the verdict and said she'd like to see SYG repealed.

That juror was retarded, sir.

It's also not an answer to my overarching question, rather a fig leaf used to avoid it.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | 1 year,1 day | (#44369901)

Why the fuck is anyone mentioning SYG?

As I have mentioned SYG several times, I will say why I am talking about it.

Just because the the GZ defense did not use the phrase SYG explicitly in court, the idea of SYG and the "expanded castle doctrine" were clearly being tried here (far more so than concealed carry). It was understood by the state that a guilty verdict against GZ would pretty well guarantee that the state would need to reexamine SYG and everything that connects to it. The jurors, being Floridians, were likely fans of SYG and everything else that their current dipshit governor is himself a fan of, so they were unwilling to cause him any trouble. Even if they are not gun owners themselves they had been convinced by the establishment that SYG was a good idea and that this was somehow a justifiable homicide.

I'm assuming self defense

There are only two things that we really know for sure about what happened that night, the rest is unreliable. The two things are that GZ pursued TM on foot after being asked by the dispatcher not to do so, and that GZ shot and killed TM. Had GZ just stayed in his truck and waited as he was asked, they would both still be alive. GZ started the confrontation whether he intended to or not. Self defense makes no sense in this case. The trial was about SYG and various other NRA propaganda that has become law in various states, and the jurors understood that.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

gmhowell (26755) | about a year ago | (#44408861)

We know no such thing regarding the request to not follow. An equally valid interpretation is that the request was made when GZ was already out of his vehicle. There is at least as much evidence (from Rachel Jeantel's testimony) that TM was at the house he was staying and for some reason headed back in the direction of the T.

I would also like to know where in this country you live that walking around a neighborhood is creepy behaviour that is tantamount to starting a confrontation that negates the use of force in defense of one's self. Being a 'creepy cracka' and following someone does not give the followee the right to use physical force.

This trial had not one fucking thing to do with SYG. It is only being raised as a bogeyman by professional race baiters, particularly the Crump law firm. There are some elements of SYG that would make a civil suit extremely difficult. Don't get between a lawyer and a payday.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,9 days | (#44290581)

...I'm actually not convinced any more that race was the main driving factor here....Now, of course, had the triggerman been black then the state of Florida would have almost certainly pursued this matter aggressively...

Uh, what?

It was the defense that declined to use SYG, thus saving it from scrutiny of the racial overtones on which it is based, as shown in the case where a black woman got 20 years (see link in other post), and it may be that they made an agreement with the state precisely for that purpose.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

gmhowell (26755) | 1 year,9 days | (#44293705)

Oh, you mean the black woman who left the scene, retrieved a weapon, and returned to the scene? Can't figure out why neither SYG nor self defense worked there.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,9 days | (#44296223)

Well Mr. Z was told to stay away also. He was in no danger in his vehicle.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

unitron (5733) | 1 year,9 days | (#44293209)

SYG had no more to do with this case than did Maritime Law just because it was raining that night.

Florida 776, their Justifiable Use of Force law, has several sections, a couple of which (776.012 and 776.013) get into SYG, but the immunity section (776.032), which was what prevented the police from arresting him absent evidence that it was not a case of self-defense, is separate from the SYG sections and not dependent on them.

The argument for a "not guilty because he was acting in self-defense" verdict in his trial was exactly the same as if the SYG provisions had never been incorporated into Florida's law.

And if Martin had been white, the media would have made Zimmerman Hispanic right away.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | 1 year,9 days | (#44291165)

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,9 days | (#44292955)

Yep, the punk deserved to die.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | 1 year,9 days | (#44294359)

You can make a theological case "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" and "the wages of sin is death", if you want to.
But if we're all theologically equivalent, then I cannot deny my inner Trayvon.
Thus, I'm not prepared to set my self up in judgement and say, cosmically, what he "deserved".
There was an altercation; Martin didn't back down; tragedy ensued.
A substantial number of people want to go all Hammurabi on George Zimmerman, but, in the heat of a moment, with someone besetting you, and the means to make it stop, tell me that you'd Stoically take the beating?
Perhaps you would, but let's hope that situation avoids you.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,9 days | (#44296263)

Martin didn't back down?? Obviously you see things differently. No point in arguing this one.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,9 days | (#44292977)

...right?

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | 1 year,9 days | (#44291219)

Case closed in less than 60 seconds.

And for even less attention span, let that death happen in Chicago, or an abortion clinic.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

gmhowell (26755) | 1 year,9 days | (#44293709)

Case closed in less than 60 seconds.

And for even less attention span, let that death happen in Chicago, or an abortion clinic.

Quiet you, that guy from Glee died.

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | 1 year,9 days | (#44294349)

Heh

Re:Simple thought experiment: (1)

gmhowell (26755) | 1 year,9 days | (#44293691)

Imagine same situation with a black Zimmerman and a white Martin.

Case closed in less than 60 seconds.

Instead, the jury just announced it is "open season" on young black males, if there'd been any doubt...

Look at closure rates for 'typical' black on black murder. This was just another case of a 'white' doing something black people had made cool and been doing for years/decades.

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