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Yet Another Example of Bad Moderations

illuminata (668963) writes | more than 10 years ago

User Journal 10

Another day, another terrible moderation.

This post ended up getting modded as flamebait. I guess this is one of those examples of how opinions are sometimes considered wrong around here.Another day, another terrible moderation.

This post ended up getting modded as flamebait. I guess this is one of those examples of how opinions are sometimes considered wrong around here.

Man, as long as I keep posting here, I'll probably never run out of things to bitch about in my journal.

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Look at the rating now... (1)

Cornelius the Great (555189) | more than 10 years ago | (#7646058)

+4 Insightful. So much for "flamebait" rating that three out of the four mods thought your post made sense- well, at least one of them that I know did ;)

Anyway, /. gave me modpoints again for the 2nd time in a week, so this time I've decided to help those in need (and deserving), rather than your trite karma whores who have no problem tricking mods.

Re:Look at the rating now... (1)

illuminata (668963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7646536)

Hah, thanks! The downmod took me from good to positive (I had never been at good before), but now I'm back at good. Unless I get taken back down, and the probability is high on that, I should be able to return the favor pretty soon.

I'm just wondering if there should be some sort of "karma collective," where a bunch of screwed over people can help each other in that realm by pooling their karma and making sure that others in similar situations get helped out. Once somebody gets their karma level bumped up enough to mod, they join the collective and get to work. People would actually be modding up deserving posts, and who knows, it might just balance things out around here.

Re:Look at the rating now... (1)

Cornelius the Great (555189) | more than 10 years ago | (#7648467)

"I'm just wondering if there should be some sort of "karma collective," where a bunch of screwed over people can help each other in that realm by pooling their karma and making sure that others in similar situations get helped out."

I like this idea. How would you implement it though?

Re:Look at the rating now... (1)

illuminata (668963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7651365)

Implementation is the hard part. I'm guessing that the easiest way to get people to know about it would be by advertising it in your signature with a link to a journal explaining how things work.

I probably would want it to accomplish two things. One would be to offset bad moderations that people make. Therefore it might be worthwhile to try convincing people to not waste points downmodding and to browse at -1. The other thing I would like accomplished is to make sure good mods are able to stay mods. Of course, I wouldn't want somebody to just throw mod points at a bad post that somebody in the collective made, but instead give them points on a post that they got screwed.

I've also thought of these ideas, but I'm a little unsure about them. One would be to let people know when the collective helped them out. It might help gain the idea popularity, but it might become tedious as well. Another would be to keep an updated list of people in the collective. It might help keep track of participants, but it might make those people the targets of angry mods and it could become tedious as well.

Echo in here? (1)

OldMiner (589872) | more than 10 years ago | (#7678714)

Greetings, I came here because I saw your sig and thought you were a troll.

So, there are a lot of trolls on Slashdot. Many of them make outlandish or dumb statements in their posts and sigs. Well, that's what trolls do, I guess. And your sig definitely caught me as particularly outlandish. But after reading your journal, now I realize you're serious. But that doesn't make me feel much better.

So, you had a post that seemed at first glance inflammatory, and then there was your sig. Naturally, I thought you a troll. I was about to downmod you and foe you, like I normally do with trolls. But, as normal, I went to investigate first. And that's what brought me here.

As noted by another fellow [slashdot.org] in a previous journal entry of yours, you make somewhat flamy posts. Once more, in that particular case you completely misread the intent of the author which I personally didn't find that hard to grasp. As noted by yourself, you tend to use profanity when you feel it's appropriate. Altogether, it would seem your judgement of what is appropriate for posting is a little hotheaded.

Mayhaps the combination of your "I'm a victim" sig and your posting style will cause others to think you a troll. Could be that they already have, and that's why you've been downmodded to bad karma in the past. (It would appear recent posts of yours have at least temporarily reversed this situation.) Perhaps it would be to your benefit to review one of these issues for potential change.

On a slightly unrelated issue, you have mentioned that you read Slashdot at -1. I'm intrigued by the few people I've seen mention that they do that. Unless one is moderating, it seems that such a strategy is a terrible waste of time. With upwards of 200 messages on any front page story, and sometimes approaching 1000, it's an unbearable deluge of trolls, me-toos, and didn't-RTFAs. When I do go down in the trenches, so to speak, to moderate, comments at -1 are perennially worthless, as are most at score 0, and a good half at 1. Could you point me at any comments you've seen of particular value that you've read at -1, or, more generally, explain why you see value in this approach?

You'll pardon my ignoring the fact that, at one point, you posted at -1. Let's just say that, at worst, that indicates your average Slashdot didn't want to read your previous posts; and, at best, it was a temporary mistake that has been self corrected by the moderation system.

Re:Echo in here? (1)

illuminata (668963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7679061)

First off, what was the post that you thought was inflammatory that brought you here? This particular one that I wrote about in my journal or another?

Now, on to the disputed post. Sure, the author might have intended trying to rally geeks to get involved. Yet, it still seemed like a low blow towards Windows just by tossing it in there. It was like he was implying that these organizations weren't enlightened by the Linux solution, so geeks need to rally. The author's sentence didn't just say Windows, it said Windows and money. Perhaps he should have added a comma after Windows. Also, just because I put profanity in posts that you don't agree with doesn't mean that I'm hotheaded. The profanity works wonders to convey a strong feeling, but I stay cool when posting. It's hard to get too worked up over something you've read over the internet.

My sig is in part to show that people will downmod you if they disagree with you. It also serves as a sincere thank you to the people who do read my posts at -1. The sig stays because there's a good chance that I'll be posting at -1 at any time. As far as my posting style goes, that won't change. Why should each post have to be limp wristed and politically correct? Just because a few higher up jerks with mod points to spare think that a post with swearing is a troll doesn't mean that they're right. I don't feel like being in a posting mold that certain people try to enforce. As for my recent karma upswing, it could be that things might be changing around here. I only hope that they are.

As for my reading at -1, I actually happen to find a lot of posts that are worthy of a read, despite the obvious bad ones. Although I don't have any particular post in mind, just try reading at that level again. One reason you might not find anything down there is because you don't agree with what's being said. Often times, a reply to a -1 comment that has a high score is a good indicator that the comment at -1 was simply a different opinion. It also makes things easier when checking on threads that I've created or posted in because I do like to see what everybody, regardless of score, has to say.

I think that the problem is that people like to impose their beliefs on others and shun out others who disagree with them. When my -1 posts went unread, there was a good chance that it was due to the fact that not many browse at -1. I also doubt that the situation was temporary and self corrected. One undeserving moderation could change my current situation and put me back in a hole for a while.

Regardless, it's interesting to experiment a little bit.

Re:Echo in here? (1)

OldMiner (589872) | more than 10 years ago | (#7692994)

First off, what was the post that you thought was inflammatory that brought you here.

You'll pardon me for not pointing at specifics. Doing so would likely result in a discussion of whether that particular post was indeed trolling or not. I even only mentioned one other post of yours in passing, and you saw the need to defend it. Though such a discussion might be valid, and perhaps desirable to you, I'm not interested in having it. I can't imagine much value coming of it. My point was more towards a technique of posting and wording than towards a specific instance of it.

My sig is in part to show that people will downmod you if they disagree with you.

I think my point was lost here. The primary oddity in it is the "system is holds me down". This statement seemed to me to be intentionally ridiculous, though it appears you believe it is true. The way I see it, there is no system. There's just a bunch of independent moderators who are composed of the community of Slashdot readers at large. If one gets modded down on a regular basis, it means that on average, the community doesn't find value in that person's posts. No more, no less.

My sig is in part to show that people will downmod you if they disagree with you.
I think that the problem is that people like to impose their beliefs on others and shun out others who disagree with them.

The point I was trying to make was that you're likely not being modded down due to what you say but due to how you say it, possibly combined with what you say.

And I'm not advising that you post limp-wristed and politically correct. Just that one can say the same information and convey the same opinions in many different ways. If one communicates his opinions in an excessively compelling or inflamatory way, he may reduce others' willingness to read his material or muddy the discussion with tangents, personal attacks, and kneejerk reactions. As such, such posts might get modded as troll or flaimbait.

Anyhow, I highly doubt that you will change your posting style. It's likely a reflection of your personality, and I doubt a few words from me will change that. To be direct, I was initially saying your sig made you look like a troll and your posting style sometimes corroborates that. Therefore, I was advising (1) why you might be seeing downmods and (2) what you might do about that, namely, change your sig.

just try reading at that level again.

Every time I mod, about once a week. Afraid I don't see much worth value. Then again, I avoid stories that hit over 300 comments. I don't have the time to read all of those posts, and I avoid modding a discussion till I've read the article and most of the comments.

And now for post #2...
OldMiner wrote: I'm pretty quick to mod down people who post information that is redundant -- already posted by someone else, especially if it's common knowledge such as google caches or references to well known information. Or, worse, people who reiterate a blithe viewpoint already posted in the swarm of 100 or so comments pre-existing on the story.
illuminata wrote: Now, modding down information that is redundant is one thing, but opinions? Maybe they had slight differences in their opinion from other similar ones that have already been voiced, or maybe they browse at a high threshold. In fact, the poster might just be seconding an opinion. I would hope that you keep that in mind.

If the person browsed at a high threshold and repeated an opinion, they were still redundant to me. And I rarely downmod a non-troll post that's already below 2. Once more, you seem to be displaying sensitivity towards my downmodding a person rather than a post. I look at posts, generally not people unless I need a tiebreaker if I'm not sure someone's being a troll/funny or just ignorant. That's the object of moderating -- improving discussions. Over time, this may affect individual's karma, but I don't see that I should take that sort of thing into consideration while moderating.

Oldminer wrote: I also frequently mark postings which are intended to be Funny, but aren't, as "Troll" or "Offtopic".
illuminata wrote: Now, there's a problem with that. Just because you didn't find something funny doesn't mean that somebody else shouldn't.

Then those people can mod that post up afterward, and I can get hit in M2. Me, I don't find bash-BSD/Microsoft/SCO/etc. stuff funny. And it makes it harder to read through a discussion involving actual technical information that could be of value.

Re:Echo in here? (1)

illuminata (668963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7694653)

First, there is a system in place. Moderators get their access when they play ball with the general leftist thinking around here. Comments that might support a Microsoft move will more than likely be modded down to -1 for whatever reason (probably flamebait), while post talking about the evils of capitalists and the companies that they run are almost a sure bet to get a higher mark, no matter how it's said. In fact, the more angry and bleeding heart they make their posts, the more likely it is to do well. Take that into account with the bitchslapping of threads and users' previous posts, the $rtbl tag, and shitty editors like michael who always make sure to thumb their nose at somebody whether it be on their own or within the stories that they post rather than just posting a story without bias. Now, Slashdot has a wider scope of users, but the same old system is in place. Individuals might be doing the moderation, but it's similar thinkers that get the right to do so.

Second, if a moderator is more worried about how something is said rather than what is being said, maybe they shouldn't be moderating at all. The same holds true if a moderator is more worried about the sig rather than the content of the post. The "community" needs to take into account that other people don't always think like their community or speak like everybody else in their community. Some people prefer individualism to socialism. And when you have as many members as a site like Slashdot, it shouldn't just be favoring to one type of thought.

Moving on to the second post, I would take into account how downmodding a post would affect someone to an extent, depending on the severity of their post. I don't mind just putting the scroll buttons to work if the post repeats certain things that others have said. To me, discussions aren't being helped much by being too anal.

With the funny qualifier, I might find a rehashed joke unfunny, but since comedy is so subjective I'd leave it alone. If I don't get a joke or don't see the humor, I still wouldn't bother it because it could be an inside joke or a joke catering to people within a particular group. And, when thinking of the poster, now that CmdrTaco has fucked up the funny qualifier by having comments upmodded as funny not worth anything, yet when they're downmodded you still take a karma hit. Besides, I find it more worthwhile to encourage good posts than penalize bad ones.

Re:Echo in here? (1)

illuminata (668963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7679381)

I felt like seeing what you were all about, I browsed your journal. I came across your My Karma Sucks because I Moderate entry, and found some interesting things that you said.

I'm pretty quick to mod down people who post information that is redundant -- already posted by someone else, especially if it's common knowledge such as google caches or references to well known information. Or, worse, people who reiterate a blithe viewpoint already posted in the swarm of 100 or so comments pre-existing on the story.

Now, modding down information that is redundant is one thing, but opinions? Maybe they had slight differences in their opinion from other similar ones that have already been voiced, or maybe they browse at a high threshold. In fact, the poster might just be seconding an opinion. I would hope that you keep that in mind.

I also frequently mark postings which are intended to be Funny, but aren't, as "Troll" or "Offtopic".

Now, there's a problem with that. Just because you didn't find something funny doesn't mean that somebody else shouldn't. And that definitely doesn't mean that it should be considered trolling of offtopic.

Re:Echo in here? (1)

illuminata (668963) | more than 10 years ago | (#7679403)

The second to last paragraph should be italicized, mind you.
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