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Query: Diff objective/subjective::Introversion/Extraversion

Chacham (981) writes | more than 9 years ago

User Journal 3

What is the difference between objective and subjective? I seem to have a basic understanding of what they mean, yet when compared to one another i get all mixed up. I am beginning to understand it more and more, though i haven't had that "click" yet.

I was discussing this with a friend, and he somewhat disagreed.

What is the difference between objective and subjective? I seem to have a basic understanding of what they mean, yet when compared to one another i get all mixed up. I am beginning to understand it more and more, though i haven't had that "click" yet. I was discussing this with a friend, and he somewhat disagreed. Objective comes from seeing things as an object. As such the object is taken wholly for whatever it is, and anything outside the object is disregarded, and then seeing how it relates to the subject at hand (unless completely perceiving, in which case there is no current subject). Thus an "objective jury". Subjective, means seeing everything only in relation to the current subject. As such any objects are not looked at wholly, rather only in relation to perceived relevance to the subject at hand (as if through lenses). When there is no object, everything is related to the subject. Thus the witness must be "subjected to questioning" A lawyer may object to antics of a subjective question from the opposing barrister. Subjective as it is not "open" enough to see the truth. "Object" , mostly being an opposite of subject, is to remind the court of balance. My friend that disagreed and said that the words may not neccesarily have the same roots, or evolve for the same reasons. I care right now about this because Katherine Briggs defines one difference between extraveret and introvert is that extraverts are objective, and introverts are subjective. Thus, an INTP as an introverted thinker uses logic-judgements subjectively, whereas the ENTJ as an extroverted thinker uses logic-judgements objectively. So, i was tossing this around and then read the a quote from Joalnde Jacobi's book "The Psycology of CG Jung" (English Edition 1973), page 18. "..." means i'm skipping, they do not appear in the book (or at least in this quote).
EXTRAVERSION and INTROVERSION...One or the other of these orientations is the reaction habitus that determines the way we respond to the objects of the outer and inner world, the nature of our subjective experience, and even the compensatory actions of our subconcious.... Extraversion is charactarized by a positive relation to the object, introversion by a negative one. In his adjustment and reaction pattern, the extravert orients himself predominantly by the outward, collective norms, the spirit of his times, etc. The attitudes of the introvert, on the other hand, are determined mainly by subjective factors. Often he is poorly adjusted to his environment. The extravert 'thinks, feels, and acts in relation to the object'; he displaces his interest from subject to object and orients himself to the world outside himself. For the introvert the subject is the basis of orientation, while the object plays at most a secondary, indirect role. His first move in every situation that confronts him is to recoil, 'as if with an unvoiced no', and only then does his real reaction set in.
Would someone please help me fully understand and appreciate these terms?

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3 comments

Interesting (1)

johndiii (229824) | more than 9 years ago | (#8544128)

For something like this, I like to start out with a dictionary definition. If nothing else, it serves as a starting point. So, subjective [yourdictionary.com] , and objective [yourdictionary.com] . I think that your take on these words attempts to extract too much from their roots, "subject", and "object". That can be a useful exercise, but I don't think it is so in this case. Doing so confuses the distinct meanings of the words (1, 2, and 3 for objective, and 1, 2, 3, and 4 for subjective, in the cited dictionary entries).

I would disgree with Briggs' assessment in this matter, primarily because it does not fit with my personal experience. My observation is that an extrovert tends to be less objective (3), and more subective (1), perhaps because they take inner values and impress them on the outer world. My view is that an introvert observes and internalizes the world, and is ultimately more aware of how internal values influence perceptions.

I find the Jacobi quote a bit confusing. It has been over twenty years since I have read any Jung, but this classification seems a bit off from what I remember. I could easily be mistaken, however. If one uses the "Psychology" meaning of subjective (4), it makes a little more sense. However, my reaction is generally that this is an attempt to make distinctions, or to construct a classification, where none actually exists. Or, at least not to the degree that Jacobi implies. I would disagree strongly with the first sentence of the second paragraph. If one would characterize extroversion and introversion in the classic sense, I would say that an extrovert has a strong (as opposed to positive) relation to the object, while an introvert has a weak reaction to the object. However, I think that this characterization is incorrect (or at best, not useful). Rather, I would characterize extroversion as proceeding from the internal to the external, and introversion as proceeding from the external to the internal. So, in fact, an introvert would have a stronger connection to the object than an extrovert. This meshes more with what I observe (my subjective (1b) assessment of objective (3b) reality :-))

Caveat: this is spur-of-the-moment, my immediate reaction to what you presented, so I have not really thought it out carefully. But there it is, for whatever it's worth.

Re:Interesting (1)

Chacham (981) | more than 9 years ago | (#8546031)

I would disgree with Briggs' assessment in this matter

She did get it from Jung. Though, before she read Jung she had five types. The first four were "normal" types and the fifth was the intovert. When she read Jung, she immediately realized that all types can either extravert or introvert, and discussed this with Jung. Thus, being she says it and Jacobi says it, until i see Jung saying otherwise, i'll believe it to be Jung's view too.

Rather, I would characterize extroversion as proceeding from the internal to the external, and introversion as proceeding from the external to the internal. So, in fact, an introvert would have a stronger connection to the object than an extrovert.

I actually agree with what Jacobi says. I was a bit disturbed at first by the "positive" and "negative" terminology (that seems more J/P), but then when she mentioned that it is the initial reaction to the object observed, it made perfect sense to me, as i can see myself reacting in that method. Keirsey would say that an SP would act in this way. However, they are just the greatest extraverts. Being they are perceiving, and perceiving with their senses, their positive reaction is quite pronounced.

(my subjective (1b) assessment of objective (3b) reality :-))

Heh. Good one. :)

But there it is, for whatever it's worth.

Thanx. I appreciate it.

Simple (1)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 9 years ago | (#8544212)

Objective: From a nonbiased perspective; God's-eye-view. Without bias or intuition.

Subjective: From a personal perspective. Human's eye view. With intuition, bias, and opinion.
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