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Instavision on Affirmative Action

smitty_one_each (243267) writes | about 7 months ago

User Journal 55

Centrist Democrat Mickey Kaus talking to Libertarian Glenn Reynolds, the mighty Instapundit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oV5PUewTMM
Racism is racism, and the Progressive Plantation has no lack of it.
End Affirmative Action.Centrist Democrat Mickey Kaus talking to Libertarian Glenn Reynolds, the mighty Instapundit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oV5PUewTMM
Racism is racism, and the Progressive Plantation has no lack of it.
End Affirmative Action.

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where's the racism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46580899)

you keep bitching that the "progressives" are a bunch of racist white supremacist thugs trying to suppress other people. you particularly like to tell us about how you believe that they are using abortion as a tool to reduce the population of these people they are so anxious to suppress (nevermind the fact that such a thing would be counterproductive, as it would reduce the number they have available to suppress!).

however, you are conveniently overlooking what happens if planned parenthood and any other agency that provides abortion to economically disadvantaged peoples goes away.

have you ever heard of an "early delivery"? it is an ob/gyn euphemism for an abortion performed in a hospital. they prefer it to be one that is "medically necessary" but that can come down to just about any cause if the patient can sell it right.

so what does this do with your cause? well, if you shut down planned parenthood this afternoon for the rest of time, the "early delivery" option is still there. and who has access to this? only those with good health insurance and access to good hospitals. in other words, white people from the suburbs.

so as usual, youre extending special benefits and services to the people you prefer.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 7 months ago | (#46584749)

you particularly like to tell us about how you believe that they are using abortion as a tool to reduce the population of these people

That was one of Margaret Sanger's goals when she advocated for both birth control and abortion. Sanger was also a proponent of Eugneics, and an admirer of one Adolf Hitler. Just because you're completely ignorant of history and who these "progressives" really are is your problem, not smitty's (or mine). Go read some of Sanger's letters. The truth is out there, Anonymous Mulder Coward.

however, you are conveniently overlooking what happens if planned parenthood and any other agency that provides abortion to economically disadvantaged peoples goes away.

An increase in live births, and hopefully, a return of personal accountability for one's actions. The end to the estimated 60 million dead children aborted since Row vs Wade forced abortion on the country by a rogue activist court.

have you ever heard of an "early delivery"? it is an ob/gyn euphemism for an abortion performed in a hospital.

Using your logic, since murder may happen, we shouldn't have any laws against it because laws don't really stop murder.

the "early delivery" option is still there

Not in Texas it isn't.

so as usual, youre extending special benefits and services to the people you prefer.

Oh look, the old "you're a racist" ad hominem. So predictable, and intellectually lazy.

I'm not going to speak for smitty, but I'm reasonably sure he's as pro-life as me. The goal is NOT to extend benefits, as you so stupidly put it, but to END ABORTION. Period.

"But coat hangers" -- yeah, well, murder is still illegal, but people still murder others.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46585715)

That was one of Margaret Sanger's goals when she advocated for both birth control and abortion.

Hee Hee, too bad the "wrong [usnews.com] " race is getting most of the abortions and birth control, isn't it? That's the only reason you're against it. Of course when you people do it, it's called a "procedure", done overseas if necessary because local law doesn't permit it, or you don't want your nosy neighbors to know your wife was cheating on you, or that your daughter got knocked up by the sheriff's kid.. Bunch of damn hypocrites, all for the death penalty and war, crimes against the living, and the unborn. You are far from being "pro-life". You all are still pissed that you lost the war twixt the states, so you keep on dreaming of other ways to enslave people, like with your prison system and the very racist, targeted prohibition that feeds it. To hear you talk about "accountability" and "consequences" has to be one of the most absurd things ever, then I realize that those things only apply to others in your mind. You really shouldn't worry so much. It will be a very long time before your "people" loses its majority and privileged status. Go ahead, call me racist. Project and deflect to your hearts content. Do whatever you can to hide the truth, and avoid any introspection. I really don't care. You are far more transparent than you will ever know in this life.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

RailGunner (554645) | about 7 months ago | (#46588027)

There you go again, acting like you know me.

Just so you know: I am, as a Catholic, vehemently opposed to all forms of abortion, save one -- when the life of the mother is at risk. At that point, it's a triage case, and doctors should save the lives that they can. Rape / incest -- sorry, but just because a child was conceived under horrible circumstances does not warrant that child being given the death penalty.

On Birth Control: I do not want to be forced to pay for someone else's birth control, and my wife and I choose not to use it. However, I, as a libertarian, have no reason to use government force to stop someone else from using it. On abortion, there is another person involved -- the innocent child. For birth control, you're only harming yourself (perhaps not physically, but definitely spiritually) and I won't stop you. Making me pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control (as if her face wasn't an effective method) is an example of the left forcing it's morals upon me.

Transparent? Try consistent. And intellectually honest -- concepts that utterly escape a liberal such as yourself.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46589555)

Consistent, you are... consistently goofy. When you stop paying for other peoples' Viagra, then you can complain all you want about birth control. And regardless of any of that, you have absolutely no right to get in between a woman and her doctor. You have no right to force YOUR morals upon them. It's pretty damn simple. In the USA all people are supposed to have equal rights. You don't like those morals, tough. You are free to move to Saudi Arabia, or some such place that has your morals codified into law. If you want Libertarian, go to Somalia. You can buy as many guns and as much ammo as you like, and blast away. Happy hunting!

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46589585)

As though moral choices aren't being forced down the throats of Hobby Lobby. I guess the Progressive Faith has given itself a pass, or something.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 7 months ago | (#46589623)

As though moral choices aren't being forced down the throats of Hobby Lobby.

I didn't feel it was moral to pay for the wars that we have started. Nobody wanted to listen to me complain about the morality of that. Why is it that when a non-conservative wants to petition to the government he is a terrorist loving traitor who needs to leave the country but when a conservative wants to do the same they are red-blooded true "Americans" to whom the laws of the land should be built around?

I guess the Progressive Faith has given itself a pass, or something.

As you would be telling us if someone with your preferred consonant had signed the Health Insurance Industry Bailout Act of 2010 instead - "if you don't like it, you don't have to use it". Nobody is forcing anyone to use birth control.

Re:where's the racism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46589707)

Individualism

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46589719)

Hobby Lobby is a business. They must abide by the same rules as everybody else. They are trying to deny their employees their rights. Civil rights trump religious choice.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46589767)

What natural right was being denied anyone, again, please?

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46589783)

Exactly my point. Hobby Lobby has no natural rights. It is not a natural person.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46590885)

So, unlike a non-profit, the minute people opt to make Any Filthy Lucre, they are prey for the government? Unless they are Amish [nbcnews.com] ? You seem to respect the rule of law, but admire power quite a bit. Could you please roll out the gag about how you're merely observing, not taking sides? Solid comedy gold, that one.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46591627)

The employees are natural persons. The institution is not. You are only showing your preference for the institution over the person.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46598249)

You're showing a preference for the institution of the federal government over all. Because #Winner.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46599911)

BTW:

Hobby Lobby is an example of religious bigotry, not religious freedom, and they are trying to impose their bigotry on their employees. And another thing, their products come from China, so they actually support not only abortion, but also infanticide (real, honest to god murder, but who cares about the living, right?), not to mention godless communism. So, every time you buy something from them or anything else from China, you are killing babies, no problem as long as they were already born, and they're not American, so who cares. The facade is just too transparent.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46600817)

How, by not wishing to pay for services they find immoral, is Hobby Lobby forcing anyone to do anything? You seem strangely comfortable with the government using vast legal force on Hobby Lobby's owners, which sure seems an act of bigotry to me. Ah, but when it's bigotry in the service of Holy Progress, it's sanctified, no? Lord bless your heart.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46601937)

Hobby Lobby has no right to decide what medical procedures a person may wish to undergo. It's like putting a camera in every doctors office. Screw them. It's none of their business. Hobby Lobby is a corporation with no natural rights. The owners can keep their damn religion in their church and at home. They shall not be allowed to impose it on their employees. They shall not be allowed to discriminate.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46607095)

The owners can keep their damn religion in their church and at home. They shall not be allowed to impose it on their employees.

Again, what has been forced on anyone in any positive sense? Please be specific.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46607201)

They are trying to be like a damn HMO dictating what medical procedures can be used on a patient. They are not doctors. They are fanatics. And they are hypocrites. They don't tell the defense department how to use their tax money, and those people are a bunch of real killers. Do you hear them complain when a fetus gets droned in Yemen, Pakistan or Afghanistan? Of course not. Why should it be any different for health insurance?

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46607321)

They are trying to be like a damn HMO dictating what medical procedures can be used on a patient.

How is a Constitutional challenge to a specific, narrow aspect of a law the same thing as behaving in as a general HMO?
I guess if every single aspect of ObamaCare, including this particular assault on religious liberty, were not rooted in diabolical falsehood, then the Administration's case would seem less like Yet Another Wanton Constitutional Raping.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46607433)

It's not religious "liberty". It's religious bigotry. And they are trying to flout anti-discrimination laws with it.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46607465)

How is the government attack on Hobby Lobby, itself, not bigotry?

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46607773)

The same way anti Jim Crow and anti segregation laws are not bigotry. Or what, do you believe the contrary?

The attack is against bigotry, not Hobby Lobby. That's like saying sending the National guard into the racist south to enforce the law is bigotry.Or that the 14th amendment is bigotry. You are saying Eisenhower was a bigot. Maybe he was, but he enforced civil rights law, as required. In fact you saying all civil rights laws are bigotry because they won't let you be a bigot. I know pudge thinks that way. He as stated outright that discrimination should be legal, and the free market will fix it. His euphemism for it is "freedom of association". It would be most unfortunate if you were that goofy, but I'm beginning to have my doubts. Tell me it ain't so.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46608903)

Jim Crow and anti segregation laws are not bigotry

No, but Affirmative Action laws sure are. Racism is deciding upon genetic factors. The fact that you've created vast swath of Equal Opportunity jobs, and have the Supreme Court playing along can't crush truth.

Or that the 14th amendment is bigotry.

Hey, if the only absolute is the right of the womb owner to give an imperial thumb up or down to a life, then the 14th Amendment does not apply to that portable plantation.
But Hobby Lobby's right not to be accountable for that womb in any procreational sense seems far from bigotry to me.
The motives for someone trying to make the conversation into bigotry: now there is an interesting line of discussion.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46609079)

A bigot's definition of bigotry is hardly one tot go by. The woman owns her body and everything in it. That carries no relation to the 14th amendment whatsoever, except as a possible path to citizenship, but the fetus only becomes a citizen after it is born. All this is none of Hobby Lobby's business. If anything you all are trying to enslave women to force them to carry your DNA. That seems to be the crux of the matter. You see the fetus as yours. It is not. You have no rights over her body, none. If that makes you feel impotent, too bad.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46609115)

The woman owns her body and everything in it.

My aunt is an alcoholic. I had a nephew afflicted with fetal alcohol syndrome. The guy was born legless, an died of the effects of the natal abuse in his early twenties. It hurt just to look at him. To behave as though his mother had the level of absolute control you seem to imply, as though these two lives did not overlap, does not seem right to me.
Even the biggest 2nd Amendment proponents don't contend that an absolute right to self defense somehow equates to an absolute right to a nuclear weapons, which is about where I gauge your argument on abortion.
It's bizarre that people are arguing so stridently for the rights of females when more than half of the murder victims of abortion are female, thanks to gender-selective abortion.
'Tis a sick, sick, sick world.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46609149)

Then she should have two choices. Terminate the pregnancy, or face charges and sterilization after the baby is born. If the baby dies after it is born, it can be treated as a homicide. What happens during the pregnancy only matters after the baby is born.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46609491)

Except that her idiotic choices, from life in general to sex in particular, were not a decoupled sequence of events. Your analysis is inadequate, and does not model this tragedy. But thanks for bringing my aunt back to mind. Her name, ironically, is Joy.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46609605)

No, my position stands. Her life history is irrelevant. The options I gave are perfectly adequate. Terminate, or face the music.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46609729)

Terminate, or face the music.

Face WHAT music? You stated that my aunt had absolute, total, no-strings-attached control of her body at all times. How could you, by your argument, hold her in any way accountable, having established her non-accountability? As with your random officeholder notion, you seem to be trying to play guitar and drums at the same time. Your band: it suck.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46609813)

Face the the music after the baby is born. There's plenty to work with there.

You're out [imgace.com] !

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46610075)

But the damage was done in utero. Your attempt at making a continuous process into a discrete one is foolhardy.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46613285)

No sir, it is continuous. Once the kid is born, everything counts. The mother has the chance to avoid the issue, and probably a doctor would recommend the same. Still the mother's choice, unless you can get papers to state otherwise, unfit, not of sound mind, whatever. Conversely you could use that to make her carry to term. No matter what, politicians, business people, and the preachers should stay out of it. If the mother wants their advice she can ask for it.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46613903)

Once the kid is conceived, everything counts.

Fixed that for you. If you believe everything a corrupt lawyer or politician tells you, you're doomed. The attempt to have human life start at some arbitrary, later time is false. Thought experiment: if a woman eats her "not exactly human life" embryo, is it an act of cannibalism?

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46614957)

"Eating the flesh of one's own kind"

The embryo is of human flesh. Yeah, I suppose it would be. It changes nothing. After the kid is born alive do your worse, until then, leave her alone. Do not meddle uninvited. She has no obligation to carry your DNA. Your whole spiel is extremely chauvinistic and bigoted against women. It is alpha male animalism demanding that they be submissive.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46615717)

Your whole spiel is extremely chauvinistic and bigoted against women. It is alpha male animalism demanding that they be submissive.

How, in defending unborn females, am I even slightly bigoted against them? There is nothing "alpha male" about the simple truth that a human being is defined by their genetic information, which was complete at conception. You seem to fling all the Lefty poo you can find in an effort to soil the truth.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46616057)

There is nothing lefty in protecting the rights of living and breathing human beings.

In choosing between bigots and their victims, you are choosing the bigots. Yes, it is "alpha male" chauvinism. You are not "above it all" by any means. Peel away the layers of abstraction that you are looking through. Only then can you comprehend that your nature is not exclusively human.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46616721)

Oh, so if you strangle the people first, so that they are not breathing, it's not murder? Or is it just the first breath that performs some feat of legerdemain, and transforms un-life to life? How does that work? Are we talking some feat of quantum mechanics? Precisely how much air would quantify that magical first breath?

This. Is. A. Completely. BS. Standard.

The only motive for fannying about in this fashion is to attempt to purge the guilt connected to destroying life. Go go Gosnell!

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46616841)

The other magical standard I've seen set forth is that somehow the scissors or knife cutting the umbilical cord, mystically, transitions a baby from un-life to life.
Cut the hooey, say I, and go with the clear, defensible standard: you were you at conception, when your information was complete.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46621163)

You were you at conception, when your information was complete.

Doesn't matter. Mother is god until I am born. The information is useless until it delivers a baby. And that choice is solely the mother's to make. No man has any right to interfere. No man has any intrinsic authority over a woman in any way. You are using your religion to claim just that. And the true nature of your claim, I have already posted.

Re:where's the racism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46622013)

No man has any right to interfere. No man has any intrinsic authority over a woman in any way.

Except half the genetic information came from his sperm

But I'm willing to accept that a man has no right, if man will no longer held accountable or responsible, ever.

We can start with stopping all alimony payments.
We can end somewhere around men not having any responsibility traditionally associated with fatherhood.

In case you missed it, the point is that religion actually oppresses men too, forcing responsibilities on them

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46622453)

Except half the genetic information came from his sperm...

When the man can get pregnant we can talk. And if he didn't want the kid, he shouldn't "offer" up his sperm. The solution is simple and obvious in that regard. But this isn't about child support. During pregnancy all rights belong exclusively to the mother. Afterwards they can fight about it with their lawyers.

Re:where's the racism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46623851)

When the man can get pregnant we can talk.

When women can get pregnant without men, then we can talk about censoring and ignoring men's input.

And if he didn't want the kid, he shouldn't "offer" up his sperm. The solution is simple and obvious in that regard.

"If she didn't want the kid, keep her legs closed/stop dressing like a slut/etc."

See, you're acting in the same way as the religious bigots, only towards the other gender. You're free to feel that way, but the villainy you teach others, they will execute, and it shall go hard but they will better the instruction.

But this isn't about child support. During pregnancy all rights belong exclusively to the mother. Afterwards they can fight about it with their lawyers.

It is tied to child support. Nothing exists in a vacuum. I'm pointing out where a woman's right to her body ends.

As I said, I'm fine with women having exclusive rights during pregnancy, but I disagree with letting them fight afterwards. There should be no fight. Exclusive rights imply exclusive responsibility. You don't claim exclusivity for 9 months then come back asking for somebody else to share responsibility for what could be the rest of his life.

A car analogy would be like where you claim exclusive ownership of a car (and could throw it into the dumpster if she wants), but then come back 9 months later and demand somebody else pay the maintenance

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46624519)

A car analogy would be like where you claim exclusive ownership of a car (and could throw it into the dumpster if she wants), but then come back 9 months later and demand somebody else pay the maintenance

If she had to build the car from raw materials and carry it around with her everyday for 9 months by herself, hell yeah. They both get part time custody, unless one is proven unfit. But if she stops and then tosses the pieces into the dumpster, even though she had ALL of them (with half coming from another source), then.. nothing. What is being argued here is that once she has all the material needed, she MUST build the car to completion because somebody gave her a pile of rocks and believes his deity says so*. Sorry, get it on paper if you want to make it binding.

*Conversely, if she was his girlfriend/wife and gets half the rocks from somebody else, he will probably demand that she throws them out along with her own, even if she started building. That's how hypocritical many of these so-called pro-lifers are.

Maybe using a car analogy is not such a good idea. Somebody will probably take it literally :-)

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46625895)

The information is useless until it delivers a baby. And that choice is solely the mother's to make.

No, pregnancy is not a hunting license.

No man has any intrinsic authority over a woman in any way. You are using your religion to claim just that.

Murder is murder, whether you're snuffing a Hindu, an atheist, or a Mormon.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46626005)

It's not murder. If you want to call it that, then so is dropping a bomb on a pregnant woman. In which case it's two murders. If abortion is murder then so is war and the death penalty. And all those who partake should be up on charges.

The mother is the decider, nobody else.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46626283)

Hey, as long as you're comfortable supporting murder. . .

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46627293)

No more than you are, sir...

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46633983)

Heaven forbid.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 7 months ago | (#46609969)

more than half of the murder victims of abortion are female, thanks to gender-selective abortion.

[citation needed]

And of course, we know you can't provide one for that because no meaningful statistics exist for that statement. Whether you made it up on the spot or took it from someone else who made it up doens't really matter.

If you considered the reality of the situation for even a moment you would realize that your claim is at best 100% un-supportable. Most abortions occur to early in the pregnancy for the mother to even know the gender of the fetus. We know that because most of the legal abortions performed in this country are in states that restrict abortion to only occur too early in the pregnancy to determine the sex of the fetus by ultrasound. Very few states will allow an abortion to occur after the point where we can tell the sex of the baby unless the situations are really extreme.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 7 months ago | (#46610093)

Re:where's the racism? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | about 7 months ago | (#46610183)

Oh, so now we have casually jumped from abortions in the US to abortions worldwide? If you read the actual page you linked to [wikipedia.org] :

sex-selective abortion is difficult to track in the United States because of lack of data. However, based on the sex ratios in the United States, it is certainly rare for the population overall. Abrevaya (2009) found that among firstborn children in the U.S., the sex ratio is the normal 102-106 males per 100 females.

So either you didn't read it, or you are hoping that you can force your faith on the rest of the planet. You most certainly, at the very least, did not provide a source to back up your claim.

Re:where's the racism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46599587)

you think you can force me to open a slashdot account and play in your sandbox just because you walked away from this discussion to post a journal entry instead? fat chance. i'm perfectly happy staying an an anonymous coward. not only that but i am the anonymous coward that shot the hell out of your flimsy argument against abortion. you can take your anger elsewhere if you want but the flaws you fall in to are now open for all to see.

thank you, sir.

Re:where's the racism? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46588875)

An increase in live births, and hopefully, a return of personal accountability for one's actions.

that's a huge assumption for just one sweeping action. it could just as well result in even more people on public assistance when they find they are not capable of working enough hours in a week to feed their families.

Using your logic, since murder may happen, we shouldn't have any laws against it because laws don't really stop murder.

i'm sorry you found this so difficult to grasp. my point is that your actions are only taking abortion away from some people, while people you like more will have just as much access to it after as before.

Not in Texas it isn't.

you're making a huge assumption there. "early delivery", as a euphemism for abortion, is a medical procedure performed in a hospital and can be done for a variety of different reasons - some of which i'm quite sure you would be opposed to. the procedure is done in a hospital by medical doctors, often in delivery wards. it gets billed to insurance and is usually counted as a stillborn child.

Oh look, the old "you're a racist" ad hominem.

well, you are removing access from some but not others. and the ones you are leaving with access are the ones who are more like you; culturally, ethnically, and likely socioeconomically.

and don't go bitching about racism when you're the one playing the hitler card, either. nevermind the fact that you are not doing anything to oppose abortion access to people who you like.

if you ended this form of abortion, then anyone who miscarries or delivers a baby who lives for only a fleetingly short amount of time could find themselves charged with murder while grieving.

The goal is NOT to extend benefits, as you so stupidly put it, but to END ABORTION. Period.
nobody said anything about benefits. it was pointed out that some forms of abortion will still remain, and they will overwhelmingly be available to only certain segments of the population.

Re:where's the racism? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#46589971)

...anyone who miscarries or delivers a baby who lives for only a fleetingly short amount of time could find themselves charged with murder while grieving.

Already happening [theguardian.com] ... That is what these people want.

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