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New Site: Hang on a little longer

FortKnox (169099) writes | more than 10 years ago

User Journal 17

I got a name picked out, just have to register it before I announce it. If you are itchin to know, and I know you pretty well, marotti _at_ gmail.com for the name.

I also have a slew of requirements already pounded out from this weekend that I'll post somewhere.I got a name picked out, just have to register it before I announce it. If you are itchin to know, and I know you pretty well, marotti _at_ gmail.com for the name.

I also have a slew of requirements already pounded out from this weekend that I'll post somewhere.

Problem, though, is I'm a week behind in work on something that is due early next week. Gotta bring the paycheck home, so this site will be pushed to the backburner (I'll work on it late at night if I'm not working on work) for the week. I'm not giving up, just have to do my job first. After the requirements comes the use cases. That's the fun part. Anyone have experience in it that wants to help?

Got a lot of requests to help in development, so I'll probably hook up a sourceforge project from the start. If you wanna help, it'll be in Java using the following technologies (so go learn'm!):
Tapestry for the front-end
Hibernate for the back-end
Spring Framework for the transaction layer
(For a tapestry-spring-hibernate example, see better petshop demo).
Then the usual ant for builds, junit, dbunit, cactus for testing, mysql for db (everyone has their own local DB and we'll use dbunit xml's to pass data around when necessary). That's all I can think of atm, so learn any of them you are unfamiliar with. I'll probably use CVS through eclipse and break up the projects, so the easiest way to develop would be to use eclipse and simply get the entire project through the eclipse cvs perspective. Any questions?

Update: I should mention that everything seems pretty ironed out in my mind except moderation. Lots of ideas were passed around, but its still not clear what the best way to go is with moderation. Will contemplate it more, later.

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um (1)

blinder (153117) | more than 10 years ago | (#9801837)

I'll probably use CVS through eclipse and break up the projects

there really shouldn't be any "probably" here :)

this is a must if you want to entertain a multi-developer effort. Hell, we have a 20+ developer community here, and we use PVCS and without it, it would be complete anarchy.

have you figured in caching of pages (i.e. publishing some pages as static, as they do here)? Its always a good idea when appropriate.

Also... why mysql? why not postgres? just curious... postgres always seems a bit more enterprise-y (triggers, sequences, stored procs) etc.

dbunit is a very good thing :)

Oh... another suggestion... if at any time XML is going to enter the picture (like seriazling objects because we *like* to decouple things... as we are good object oriented developers)... check out Castor. We use it all over the place and its a freakin life/time saver.

Re:um (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 10 years ago | (#9802191)

CVS isn't the 'probably'... its whether I'll use the cvs plugin in eclipse, and breakup the whole thing into (at least) 3 projects... backend, frontend, unit test. Same package structures, just seperated out by project (that way the final ear doesn't have the unit test data).

mysql I like just cause everyone uses it. Could easily switch to postgres (hell, as long as I can get dbvisualizer to see it, I'm happy).

Re:um (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#9802690)

I agree with blinder that you should go with postgres. Less political horse doodoo, and it has some nicer features. IIRC, true ACIDity.

If you go with sourceforge, make sure to maintain a mirror of every bit of content. Their uptimes are hinky. One of us could grab the necessary software, and set up a repository elsewhere. I would also question why the need for sourceforge itself. Do you really need everything it offers, or do you just need bug tracking and CVS?

BTW, are there any good printing modules for Java?

Bah (1)

Safety Cap (253500) | more than 10 years ago | (#9815749)

Postgres for mature FK (ha) support, stored procs, 'n' triggers. MySQL is for kidz and /. "developers"; remember MVC...MVC...MVC. (cough)

Subversion for version control (allows bulk-checkin instead of piecemeal when a change affects a group).

Struts is the more mature framework (i.e., fewer bugs/more lessons learned), but if you wanna play with the new stuff, I'm game. What about JSF?

I'll email you more reqs.

Re:Bah (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 10 years ago | (#9817374)

tapestry is almost as mature as struts. JSF is still VERY beta. Would love to try it, just think its a bit immature atm.

How Are You... (1)

the_mad_poster (640772) | more than 10 years ago | (#9802685)

...planning on making provisions for journal archival on the new system?

Do you plan on letting users move their old journals? With comments? No comments? Will they have to do it all manually, or will you allow for programmatic uploading?

Re:How Are You... (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 10 years ago | (#9802963)

I dunno. Honestly, I'd like to just get the new journalling system installed. I'm leaning towards not having this archival process at all, but since so many people want it, it'll have to be a top of the list request. There isn't really a 'pretty' way of doing it. Maybe keying in the rss for the journal feed and ripping the title, topics, and timestamps into the new system. The comments and such would have to come from your script. Ugh... I was trying not to think about it, but I'll recontemplate it.

I'll also need to run your script to see what you are outputting.

Re:How Are You... (1)

the_mad_poster (640772) | more than 10 years ago | (#9803408)

Right now, it only outputs "extended text" which is plain text that preserves links and a handful of formatting HTML tags. Getting that part done was the hard part, because now I can reduce an entire journal entry page to plain je text and title which means whatever formatting I want is fair game. I plan on allowing a generic XHTML page to come out, plain text, the "extended text" it does now, plus XML and an allowance for you to push your journal content through a custom template. Basically, as long as you allow for a way for the files to get onto the server and be picked up and put in the new system, the script can put them out exactly how you need them for the new system. I'm thinking, basically, you just use a template specific to the new site to output your archived journals, then send 'em up via FTP. If you've verified who you are from /. (I like Oculus's method for that) then a simple batch picks up your journals and puts them in the database in the new system. Voila - instant journal bootstrap. If you aren't verified, just delete the files.

However, we ought to determine whether or not we even want to move them. Some folks, like Sol, have work they don't want to lose. Whether or not those folks actually want to move the JEs to the new system is a whole different story.

Re:How Are You... (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#9803688)

Personally, I'll be dumping everything into my blog. Possible future stuff may go in both places, but why overwhelm the new system with a bunch of cruft?

Might I suggest that you and Josh work together so that if the need for future archiving becomes extent, there will be a pre-existing method for extracting the data? In addition to technical benefits of a built-in vs. tacked on (or hacked on?) archival function, there is a strong political benefit: the easier it is to leave the new community, the more it forces administration to take efforts to make people want to stay for other reasons.

(Hmm... Open Source that isn't crufty encourages quality products, as there is nothing else keeping users around? Should forward that to ESR and RMS.)

Re:How Are You... (1)

baldass_newbie (136609) | more than 10 years ago | (#9804465)

Thought I had over the weekend was something along the lines of...
"Why not allow users to have their own sites, should they choose, and then use the central site as an RSS aggregator that would allow a user to either publish from their site or on the central site?"

e.g.
I use drupal, gmhowell uses MovableType (or did once, I remember some script kiddy griping a while back...)
Anyway, one of the members could either go to the ring site or to the 'source' site to see what's up (my site would have the RSS feed as well).
This way, I can click on topic I want and be either in the 'source' site or the central site (depending on configuration).

Boy, that sounds like one crappy spec...lemme try again.
I have a site. gmhowell has a site. jawtheshark has a site. We each have our own blogging software.
Central site takes RSS feeds and can direct users to either the remote site or people who don't have a site (I'll pick on bethanie here) can blog there.
If I click on a gmhowell entry, I go to his site. If I click on a bethanie entry, I go to her entry on the central site.

Of course, each remote site would like back via RSS.
Oh, and you would need a way to have users 'logged in' even if they've come from a remote site.
No, I don't know how you'd do that last bit.
(And yes, drupal does it, Josh.) Probably via the Blogger API [blogger.com] , I figure.

This way, a person who really wants control can 'own' their own site.
Just some mental masturbation.

Re:How Are You... (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 10 years ago | (#9804641)

Yes yes yes... I had this in mind from the start. It uses ANY rss feed for info, so you can input one and start reading it. So, for example, LadyGuardian doesn't post here anymore, but you'd still see her journals on the new site, cause ladyguardian.com has an RSS feed (dunno if she does or not, though).

But if you don't have your own blogging site, you can post your own journals on the new site.

You have a link to the site posting the journal, and can post comments there (but that's outside the 'new site's messaging system, so you won't know about replies and such), or you can post them on the new site, but the original author won't see them unless they log into the new system (and they can have messaging turned on if I figure out a way to associate outside sites RSS's to a user).

Re:How Are You... (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#9804708)

Certainly a more interesting feature for the journals at any rate. (BTW, I switched to WordPress. A bit more obscure, no stupid licensing issues.)

Re:How Are You... (1)

baldass_newbie (136609) | more than 10 years ago | (#9805277)

Well, I've been meaning to tell you about drupal [drupal.org] , as an FYI.
No licensing muck there either (I don't think.)

Re:How Are You... (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 10 years ago | (#9805503)

IIRC, I looked at drupal a long time ago, and concluded it was way too heavy for my needs. One of the reasons I grabbed wordpress is that it is just a durn blog.

If I ever get a bug in my bonnet to change again, I'll check it out.

Look and Feel themes with CSS? (1)

Eye of the Frog (152749) | more than 10 years ago | (#9810562)

Have you given any thought to spitting out very generic HTML, maybe XHTML2, and having several stylesheets(themes) available to the user to pick from? Maybe even having a text box in the account section where the user can edit his/her own stylesheet on the fly and apply it to the account. In the words of WinAmp, that would kick the llama's ass!

Re:Look and Feel themes with CSS? (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 10 years ago | (#9810670)

I dunno about having the user edit his/her own stylesheet, but yes, it will be very css oriented (I love the site www.csszengarden.com, and will use the 'mediterannean' stylesheet up front. Will make it so I can add a lot of stylesheets to allow the user to have his/her own stylesheet of choice (maybe have contests to get your own stylesheet included?).

Hey Josh (1)

MonTemplar (174120) | more than 10 years ago | (#9852883)

I'm up for helping out with testing the interface and suchlike. Check your GMail.

-MT.
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