Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Groklaw, and Free as in Speech

talks_to_birds (2488) writes | more than 10 years ago

User Journal 2

Having been on /. for what is now quite a while (although not posting very often for various reasons), and having been on Groklaw as talks_to_birds roughly since mid-winter, I thought maybe this might be a good forum to express my growing concerns about what's been going on at Groklaw, regarding:

  1. censorship
  2. intolerance
  3. a group-think, shark-attack mentality
  4. and the cult-of-personality that's grown up around Pamela Jones, and that is the cause o
Having been on /. for what is now quite a while (although not posting very often for various reasons), and having been on Groklaw as talks_to_birds roughly since mid-winter, I thought maybe this might be a good forum to express my growing concerns about what's been going on at Groklaw, regarding:
  1. censorship
  2. intolerance
  3. a group-think, shark-attack mentality
  4. and the cult-of-personality that's grown up around Pamela Jones, and that is the cause of 1) 2) and 3), above.

    IMHO, of course...

OK: so, at this point, to establish some sort of cred as to having been an active contributor to The Cause® at Groklaw, and not just your random poster there, here's what I've done so far:

http://www.finchhaven.com/TSCOG/index.html

Particularly, I've done an extended breakdown of the (http://www.finchhaven.com/TSCOG/APA_analysis.html) APA and Amendment No. 2 which are what *might* have conveyed something from the Old SCO to Novell around 1995-96 -- something that's still a work-in-progress, and something that I may not get back to, now that all this OSRM/Linux patents shit has hit the fan.

Also, I came across a rather startling revision (http://www.finchhaven.com/TSCOG/SCO_Source_timeline/SCO_Source_timelines.html) to Eric Levenez' Unix (http://www.levenez.com/unix/) Timeline, wherein TSCOG seems quite clearly to be fabricating a direct, unbroken lineage from some Unix variant that TSCOG holds some title to, through Minix, and into Linux itself.

And other than that, I used to hang out on Groklaw *way* too much, adding background to a lot of the posts there, putting the lie to FUD, and just generally fending off the trolls.

But that's "used to" 'cause I've just about bailed entirely.

Why?

Because I cannot, in good conscience, support with my presence and my participation the censorship, intollerance, and group-think that's set in at Groklaw, and I won't be associated with Pamela Jones's continued descent into paranoia and blaming. For whatever good Groklaw is performing, there's a case to be made that it's doing damage as well.

Of that last (paranoia and blaming), here's an example from today (08/06/2004) - if it hasn't been deleted already :-/

http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20040806043559628&title=Pro%20SCO%20FUD&type=article&order=ASC&hideanonymous=0&pid=180138#c180143

  • Pro SCO FUD
    Authored by: PJ on Friday, August 06 2004 @ 07:17 AM EDT

    Cute. The truth is I have never yet seen any pro SCO comments on Groklaw.

    Actually, not anywhere. The SCO trolls attack me and Groklaw instead of saying pro SCO stuff.

"..attack me and Groklaw.."

That's the way it is now, at Groklaw.

If it's anything that Pamela doesn't want to hear, or doesn't want to deal with, it's an "attack".

Here was my reply:

http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20040806043559628&title=Pro%20SCO%20FUD&type=article&order=ASC&hideanonymous=0&pid=180143#c180211

  • Pro SCO FUD
    Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:14 AM EDT

    >>> The SCO trolls attack me and Groklaw instead of saying pro SCO stuff. <<<

    So, anyone who has a difference of opinion with you is now an "SCO troll"?

    Pamela, you really need to stop talking to yourself in the mirror, or to that very, very ingrown group of people you trust as "friends".

    Get out into the real world, and try to realize that just because two adults disagree, they aren't attacking one another.

    Now, let's see how long it takes:

    1) for this post to be declared a troll
    2) for me to be told to go away "'cause it's PJ's blog"
    3) and finally, for this post to be deleted, along with so many others that have been deleted in the last few days.

    /* gasp! did he really say "deleted"? It must be Darl hisself! */

    Ready, set, Go!

This was the immediate (six minutes) response:

http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20040806043559628&title=Pro%20SCO%20FUD&type=article&order=ASC&hideanonymous=0&pid=180211#c180215

  • Pro SCO FUD
    Authored by: Latesigner on Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:22 AM EDT

    Cute, very cute. I assume you have a twisted sense of humor but just in cast I'm wrong it is now 9:25 AM.

    Go away troll.

And so it goes, at Groklaw.

My response to *that* was this:

http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20040806043559628&title=Pro%20SCO%20FUD&type=article&order=ASC&hideanonymous=0&pid=180215#c180218

  • Pro SCO FUD
    Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 06 2004 @ 09:25 AM EDT

    Groklaw: home of intolerance and censorship..

    What's that got to do with open and free?

Anyway, whatever...

More later, maybe :-/

t_t_b

cancel ×

2 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

I agree, and it's a shame (1)

SimianOverlord (727643) | more than 10 years ago | (#9902923)

I've never been a regular contributer, but I was a regular reader since the SCO case started having discovered Groklaw through /. , of course, back when it was far quieter and far more level headed.

For the first few months I read it all, including discussions, then with less time, began picking and choosing articles which sounded interesting, or gave a more general overview of what the current developments in the case were, rather than horribly detailed articles (something like "SCO's Second Countermanded Reply to IBM's Counterclaim of blah in SCO's AIX license: Appendix 3 table 12"). I found Groklaw a useful resource and still do, but I miss the balance and level-headedness PJ's writing used to have.

I might be guilty of rose tinted memories here, but I remember old Groklaw as being dispassionate and calm and very effective, dissecting arguments, checking facts and chasing these cowboys. Now, a few days ago, when I cruised by after a long absence, I'm hit by
SCO is like a toe fungus. You treat it and treat it, and it still persists. Oh, wait. Wrong analogy. It's like Rocky Balboa. It all depends on who you listen to. Here's SCO's version. McBride at SCOForum says he'd do it all again:
in a front page story and:
No doubt that explains all the motions and cross motions and all the other law suits. Are we up to ten of them yet? Or does it just feel like it? Obviously, this overachiever's having fun. He says he expects to win. And then, my pretty, we'll see what happens to your little penguin:


I feel it's lost its edge, the writing has become too chatty for a research resource, like a circle of friends in a blog rather than a project. I think it's sad that PJ has had such trouble with trolls, it was one of the main strengths of the old Groklaw, the quality of the comments. And I agree there has been a drop off in that quality, too much fandom, in jokes and permitted off-topic. If what you suggest is true about the censorship, then that is sad. It's a drawback of the presence of trolls that challenging peoples beliefs leads them to dismiss you as one. The poster is always assumed to have an agenda, or to be insincere, and people don't want to waste their time, I guess.

Re:I agree, and it's a shame (1)

talks_to_birds (2488) | more than 10 years ago | (#9905405)

I think that Groklaw will be an invaluable resource for about as long as all this nonsense goes on, but something needs to be done to reduce the "style" (read: hyperbole) and to open up the floor to different ideas..

Dunno that's gonna happen, though.

I think the seige mentality is setting in, though: I just got blasted by a regular on the Yahoo! Finance SCOX message board who's also a regular on Groklaw, and a big PJ supporter:

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&actio n=m&board=1600684464&tid=cald&sid=1600684464&mid=1 63967&thr=163718&cur=163718&dir=d [yahoo.com]

Oh well, what the hell...

t_t_b

Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>