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Interesting, interesting...

talks_to_birds (2488) writes | more than 9 years ago

User Journal 3

hmm..

What *really* got Pamela pissed off at me was my suggestion/question about whether OSRM was taking the information produced by the posters to Groklaw and incorporating that information into their "product".

That question generated several angry emails from her, and really (OK: IMHO..) was the cause of the famous Pamela-shaming:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040804221510383

hmm..

What *really* got Pamela pissed off at me was my suggestion/question about whether OSRM was taking the information produced by the posters to Groklaw and incorporating that information into their "product".

That question generated several angry emails from her, and really (OK: IMHO..) was the cause of the famous Pamela-shaming:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040804221510383

  • "I'm also ashamed of some of you. Next time, I suggest you get all the facts before you speak..."

OK, OK, so I *won't* go into the question as to just how the hell it is that Pamela has the guts to be shaming anyone, but any way time (a week?) passes...

And then we have:

http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20040810153722301&title=The%20worst%20isn't%20over%20yet...&type=article&order=ASC&hideanonymous=0&pid=182424#c182460

  • "In the OSRM paper, it mentions the plan. We are preparing some educational materials to teach anyone who wishes to learn how to do a search for prior art, from a legal perspective, and we will then go hunting..."

To which I replied:

http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20040810153722301&title=The%20worst%20isn't%20over%20yet...&type=article&order=ASC&hideanonymous=0&pid=182460#c182818

  • Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, August 11 2004 @ 01:16 AM EDT

    >>> We are preparing some educational materials to teach anyone who wishes to learn how to do a search for prior art, from a legal perspective, and we will then go hunting. <<<

    will the people who are doing OSRM's research be paid?

    or will they be expected to volunteer their labor toward the "Good of the Cause"?

At the moment (Wed Aug 11 13:17:31 PDT 2004) that post has not been answered.

Of course, it hasn't been deleted, either, so we're making progress!

t_t_b

3 comments

Logic flaw (1)

Kalak (260968) | more than 9 years ago | (#9955831)

You imply that work done to find prior art on patents in linux is not in PJ's best interest, and so she will therefore try to sweep it under the rug. The opposite is true however. Patent issues have been identified. If groklaw, or the EFF, or Patent Busters or anyone else finds admissable prior art, that is one less reason for anyone to buy insurance. Sing with me: "287 patents on the wall, 287 pattens on the wall. If one of those pattents should happen to fall 286 patents on the wall..."

If the research is done effectively, patents will either be found to have prior art, or will be found to be litigatable (sp?) and most likely removed from the kernel.

The more research is done, the less her current employers are likely to sell insurance.

So how is PJ not talking about her employers wrong? I still don't get it.

While the s/n ratio is not as good as it used to be, and group think is an issue at GL, it's still a good source. I followed your story because I recall your name both from /. and GL, and value good debate. As you pointed to (and I've since bookmarked) there are other places besides GL for solid SCO info. /. is Rob's blog, and we're still just visitors here, and GL is PJ's. You journal is yours, and my sites are mine, etc.

I wouldn't go so far as to call PJ paranoid, but more like not knowing what to do under the spotlight. She is a paralegal and not a journalist in my mind, and that is a strength and a weakness both. Paralegals don't exactly get the spotlight much. She's now got execs of major corporations talking about her site. I wish I could get 1% of that exposure, and I know it would go to my head to some degree. I'm sure it went to Rob's back in the early days of /.

I guess what I'm rambling about here is to suggest that you keep things on GL in your mind and keep watching. I would not be suprised to see that PJ's just having growing pains. (Thought I do agree that I wish she'd drop the Sun stuff. sun's not proven to be evil, just trying to survive in a changing environment, and having a hard time doing it.)

I should stop rambling and just go to bed.

Re:Logic flaw (1)

talks_to_birds (2488) | more than 9 years ago | (#9970616)

My issue with Pamela, OSRM, and the (potential) incorporation of work done by Groklaw posters is really one of full disclosure, or, at the moment, the lack of full disclosure.

Pamela controls a web site where 99.9% of the information is developed and posted by other people.

She is also the "Director of Litigation Risk Research" at OSRM.

I'm sorry -- no, I'm not: What overlap is there between the accumulation of research by individuals at Groklaw, relative to Pamela's role as a Director of Research at OSRM.

The very fact that this question pissed her off so much at me (I still have, but will not make public the private emails she sent me) indicates there is a substantive, and unaswered question here.

Additionally, Pamela has already stated ( http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&si d=20040810153722301&title=The%20worst%20isn't%20ov er%20yet...&type=article&order=ASC&hideanonymous=0 &pid=182424#c182460 [groklaw.net] ) that there is some intent to specifically train people to do patent-specific research.

Is OSRM going to pay for that labor, or does OSRM expect/hope that labor will be donated?

I have asked that question specifically below Pamela's post; the last time I looked it has not been answered.

t_t_b

Re:Logic flaw (1)

Kalak (260968) | more than 9 years ago | (#9981479)

From the linked post, "anyone who wishes to learn" is who they want to train. Now I read that as a resource I could use, but I don't have to contribute back.

For example, I've seen a patent "make an agreement with us" letter on my boss' desk. Which would be better? Wait for the trials in progress (not involving us) to finish, waiting "in fear" (ok, syspense is more like it, our buisness doesn't hings on this. but not everyone has that position)? Or to actually do some patent research and come up with prior are to ease the monds of management, so they can rest easier knowing what to expect (as much as you can with patents these days)?

No where in this scenerio does anything have to be shared with PJ/GL/OSRM. Who says they will benefit at all from that labor?

That crucial question you ask could be asked of most open source projects: Work on the linux kernel? Is RedHat/SuSE/Novel/Mandrake/Yellowdog/etc. going to pay for that labor, or does RedHat/SuSE/Novel/Mandrake/YellowDog/etc. expect/hope that labor will be donated?

I see GrokLaw more as open source meets law and vice versa. You can use, you can contribute, and you can make money off of it if you can find a way.

You can find examples of this all over. Wikkipedia is this applied to everything, and, similar to what you say abuot GL, 99% of the content comes from other people.

If she is touchy about her position at OSRM, well, then that's "her problem". Liuns has a non-profit paying his bills right now. PJ doesn't have the benefit of a non-profit to pay her bills. Since she links to source, I can form my own opinion. (You have added other places that do this as well, so I can use those too.)
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