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Journal Espectr0's Journal: Chavez wins 23

Journal by Espectr0

The electoral council announced this morning that Chavez had 58% of the votes.

I can say, while being objective, that this is simply not true. The goverment played its card, requiring voters to use a special machine which captures fingerprints, which failed most of the time (it even failed on the president himself).

Lines were long, and i mean LONG. People got up at 3am and most didn't leave up to 3pm. I myself waited until it was 7:30pm to go and only had to be 3 hours in line.

This results ARE NOT LEGIT. I have proof myself. I own several scanner radios, where i could heard the fraud going on.

They were bringing people from across the colombian border. There were talking about voting twice (don't know how, since we get inked at the end of the voting), although all electoral members were put by the goverment, figure how!

Thy bet we would get out of the lines due to the sun and getting tired. Maybe some did, but i tell you lot of people didn't.

People who had voted, went to the stores and bought food and drinks for the people in line. Talk about union in the voters. Feeding completely strangers. That's who we venezuelans are.

Via "exit polls" people were knowing the results. Opposition said they had 58% while goverment said they had 65%.

No one of the international observers (OAS, Carter Center) have announced anything. There were reports of the electronic machines changing votes. There is a rumor that a YES vote counted as a YES AND NO vote.

So, i say fraud. Unexpected? Hell no.

UPDATE 8/17: The opposition has proved that the electronic machines had a maximum ceiling vote for the YES option, making any vote for that option beyond that fixed number have an unknown destination

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Chavez wins More

Chavez wins

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  • .... on the net, along with the olympics and the hurricane coverage. Man, this sucks. What's next do you think, civil war? Bush has said he's pulling 70 thousand troops out of mostly europe, maybe them saying they were going to the gulf in the middle east is a ruse, maybe they will be going over to your neck of the woods.

    anyway, good luck! Keep us posted what's shakin' down there!
    • Bush ain't that stupid. He isn't touching us with a 10 foot pole.

      I don't think we will have a civil war. OAS and carter ratified the results. The opposition will request a manual count, and guess that once lost they will just accept defeat.

      One thing i have for sure, is that the goverment did all they could to eliminate opposition votes. For example, where i voted there are usually 10 "tables" and this time there were just 2. Where the pro goverment people voted, the lines were fast and no lag was present.
      • How are things there now ? I was in VZ a few years ago (Valencia/Caracas/Cumana/Ciudad Bolivar/Ciudad Guyana/Gran Sabana and Margarita). Great, great country, but even lousier than elsewhere politics !

        I pray that Bush stays outta there.
        • The country itself is really good, but politics and corruption destroys its progress.

          We are the 5th oil exporter (we were 4th, and our supplies are capable of becoming the 3rd), we have every kind of climate in the world available in the country, every kind of mineral you may think about, lots of fauna and flora.

          With current oil prices, we could even beat Chile's prosperity.
          But politics keep killing us. If you come here, try skipping big towns like Caracas (unless you only like modern towns) and come and
  • Damn that didn't take long. The machines were capped to only allow a fixed amount for the YES option, while votes above that cap have an unknown destination. You will be reading about this in the news soon enough
    • What I understand of it, is that there was an electronic system (machine voting, finger print ID) for speed and a traditional system (paper ballot, indelible ink) for reliability. Beats the heck out of what we have here. Our voting machines are closed source.

      The real problem is that apparently the processing was slow. If this was done on purpose it would be very bad.

      If the voting machines are under suspicion, I guess the paper trail should be checked. Be thankful you have one!
      • What I understand of it, is that there was an electronic system (machine voting, finger print ID) for speed and a traditional system (paper ballot, indelible ink) for reliability. Beats the heck out of what we have here. Our voting machines are closed source.

        The voting machines were not for speed, but for slowliness. They are absolutely closed source. The machine printed a little piece of paper indicating your vote. You put the paper inside a box.
        Of course, the electoral council has forbidden surprise m

    • The electoral council announced this morning that Chavez had 58% of the votes. I can say, while being objective, that this is simply not true.

      I can hardly call this being objective. It sounds more like you didn't like] the final results and are in a state of denial.

      They were bringing people from across the colombian border.

      How come then that Chavez lost in Tachira? (For non-Venezuelans: Tachira is a State neighboring Colombia).

      There were talking about voting twice (don't know how, since

      • How come then that Chavez lost in Tachira? (For non-Venezuelans: Tachira is a State neighboring Colombia).
        Chavez should have lost easily in Tachira, and the results show a tie (50,7 - 49,3). Moreover, Chavez should have lost in Zulia (the most anti-Chavist state) by a wide margin. He even had to cancel a meeting there because a week before the elections because he had no support from the people. And, strangely enough, he won in Zulia. In his best times (1998, 2000) his party didn't even win a single mayo

        • Chavez should have lost in Zulia (...) This is the largest state (in terms of voters) in the country. Chavez has never won here and now, for the first time, he suddenly wins 52-48. Yeah, sure.

          Why is that impossible? Just because he has never won in Zulia, that doesn't automatically mean that he can never win in Zulia.

          Morever, even the opposition admitted there was a strong upward trend favoring Chavez in the last months. See, for instance, this article [eluniversal.com] from El Universal (For non-Venezuelans: El Univ

          • Why is that impossible? Just because he has never won in Zulia, that doesn't automatically mean that he can never win in Zulia.

            Of course it isn't impossible, but it's really hard to lose on the state everyone knows they can't win. Although in the newspaper today some politicians say that the lost in Zulia happened because of the new 300.000 people that were given citizenship in the state. Curious, isn't it, that half a year before the referendum there are operatives in the whole country to give citizenshi

            • Although in the newspaper today some politicians say that the lost in Zulia happened because of the new 300.000 people that were given citizenship in the state.

              Do you really trust a politician with an obvious agenda? According to the CNE [cne.gov.ve] (look for the PDFs), registered voters in Zulia increased from 1,363,031 to 1,698,192 since August 2003. That makes 335,161 new voters in Zulia. This is roughly the same figure quoted by those unnamed politicians. However, other highly populated states (like Miranda a

              • Do you really trust a politician with an obvious agenda?

                The politician is from the goverment. However that 300k number may well include people reaching 18 years old. Any way this isn't part of the main discussion.

                So the government could snap some pretty pictures of crowds of 'supporters

                Again, a different topic. I was just naming all the "legal but inmoral" methods used to gain votes.

                Can you point me to the relevant source? I am interested.

                http://www.queestapasando.com/?pag=noticias&desde = 1 [queestapasando.com]
      • How come then that Chavez lost in Tachira? (For non-Venezuelans: Tachira is a State neighboring Colombia).

        The conversations i heard over the scanner talked about bringing people from Maicao (a part of Colombia near Maracaibo, and really far from Tachira)

        Whose exit polls?

        Like i said, opposition had one and goverment had another. Not much to discuss, everyone said they had the win.

        Well, they have now accepted that Chavez won. The Carter Center even said that their own unofficial estimate is similar to

        • The conversations i heard over the scanner talked about bringing people from Maicao (a part of Colombia near Maracaibo, and really far from Tachira).

          It would be really interesting to hear those conversations. Did you record them? If you did, can you make them available to the public? Anyway, even if the chavistas brought illegal voters from Maicao, that is not statistically enough to explain to results. We are talking of millions of votes here. Only a massive and well-coordinated fraud could possibly ac

          • It would be really interesting to hear those conversations

            I don't have the required cables for hooking up a radio scanner to my pc. And like i said on the other post, yeah it's just one case and won't explain 1.7 million votes, but hey, maybe when i am working for the CIA i can do better :)

            The opposition never reassured the poor people that they won't lose what they won with the Misiones.

            I haven't read it all, but here is the consensus plan that the opposition proposed. At least they try.
            http://conse [consensopais.net]
        • I don't live in Venezuela, I'm from Uruguay, but from what we have seen, this poll was not about whether you like Chavez, it was about overthrowing the president.
          There are people who dislike Chavez, but hate the idea of leaving that void to fill.
          Chavez seems to me too authoritarian for my taste, but the forces that comfront him seem much more dangerous, as they don't show much contempt for democratic ways.

    • Don't you ever think all slashdotters are clueless about world politics.

      You sold out guy, how much did CIA pay you to sell your public?

  • Hi Espectr0

    How does what you report correlate to what gets reported at sites like narconews.com [narconews.com]. What about the American collusion with and funding of the opposition that has been widely reported. I just want to know why these versions of reality differ so much. Al Giordiano, the publisher of Narconews, has A lot of credibility and journalistic integrity. Why should I believe you?

    • What about the American collusion with and funding of the opposition that has been widely reported.

      I think the U.S goverment can answer that better than me. They recognized funding non profit organizations in Venezuela that are democratic (they funded Sumate, the opposition npo that were in charge of organizing the signature recolection)

      And they said this isn't new, but has been going in previous goverments too.

      That site you pointed also questions the international observer's credibility. It is widely

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