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Interesting

smitty_one_each (243267) writes | about 2 months ago

User Journal 12

Jay Carney: I Never Told A Lie
I am seriously interested, as an intellectual matter, just what the man's definition of 'lie' is.
There are national security matters that are off the table--got it.
Then there is carrying out orders--understood.
I guess the only way I can buy Carney's line is if the scope of the statement pertains solely to any matters of personal opinion into which he ventured while onJay Carney: I Never Told A Lie
I am seriously interested, as an intellectual matter, just what the man's definition of 'lie' is.
There are national security matters that are off the table--got it.
Then there is carrying out orders--understood.
I guess the only way I can buy Carney's line is if the scope of the statement pertains solely to any matters of personal opinion into which he ventured while on the job.

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Liar Liar (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 months ago | (#47278673)

I misread it as Jim Carrey. His character in one of his movies [wikipedia.org] had to go 24 hours without telling a single lie.

Re:Liar Liar (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a month ago | (#47279673)

Didn't ever see that flick.

Re:Liar Liar (1)

mwlewis (794711) | about a month ago | (#47280541)

It has one of my all time favorite lines.

[Jim Carrey's lawyer character, on phone with criminal defendant client]: STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!

Re:Liar Liar (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a month ago | (#47280699)

You're not missing much comrade. It's another Leftist propaganda film.

In it, the hero is a divorce lawyer, who himself is divorced. By the end he gets back with his wife, but it totally whitewashes how prior to that, he has successfully broken up God knows how many wholesome traditional families following God's will!

It promotes the Leftist idea that it doesn't matter how many lives you ruin along the way as long as you (and only you and your elite buddies) get a happy ending.

I believe it (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 2 months ago | (#47287393)

He probably defines a lie as voluntarily explicitly saying something that you know is 100% untrue. And he probably never did that.

It's like journalists. They never lie, but they constantly, daily, hourly, deceive. And if you can, via the black arts of trickery, make people believe you said something without actually having said it, hey, then it's not all on you, it's partly their fault. So it's not as bad to do it that way. (A poster here from way back when I first started journaling here said essentially that, and that the burden is on the other side then to counter it, or it's their bad.)

Re:I believe it (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 2 months ago | (#47287569)

Again, if communicate with you in a way that permits you to be misinformed (as apposed to amused) then I call that lying. Because the truth is that important.

Re:I believe it (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 2 months ago | (#47287787)

Oh I'm with you, and take it even further, to "lies of omission". Like RG's example of Sarah Palin having been accused of whatever whatever number of times. I call speech that leaves the wrong impression, even if what is spoken is incontrovertably true, to be a "lie".

But then how do we compete against those for whom truth is just a nice-to-have, or a luxury that is not affordable these days while there's various inequities and injustices that have been going on for ages and need to be remedied?

Wouldn't you lie if it greatly increased the chances of a power shift and the enabling of the outlawing of most abortions?

Re:I believe it (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 2 months ago | (#47287987)

We're saying the same thing. "Permits you to be misinformed" is lies of omission. It also covers having someone else lie on your behalf and failing to correct the record.

Re:I believe it (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 2 months ago | (#47290059)

Well, okay, "misinformed" (knows things that aren't true) is close to "uniformed" (does not know things that are true). And all such gradations of deception can loosely be called "lies", which was your beef with the former WH Press Sec.

I was just thinking, put yourself in Lefties' shoes for a minute, as it's an interesting (and disturbing) but enlightening exercise. Some "lying" is more direct than others. For example our culture has distinctions like "only" fibbing. Or "little white lies".

I look at them collectively and call the whole intention immoral and against human dignity (for both the lying and the lied-to). But Lefties separate them and rank them, towards being able to group crises and injustices of enough magnitude with them to outweigh the negative connation of using them.

For example the need for nationalized health care was so severely great, it totally justified even the most bald-faced lying. It was for the greater good. Whereas on more mundane issues, the Left will just opt for lies of omission. Or maybe go a little stronger and go with insinuation of falsehood, without directly saying falsehoods.

But then to put all that disgusting stuff in context, wouldn't you lie to, for example, save lives? Even to the nation? Even complete untruths, if the stakes were what you considered to be high enough? Lefties, as religious zealots of their faith, Leftism, just consider advancing and implementing it so spiritually and morally important that most of it outweighs in need and importance any tactics used to sneak it into being.

Whereas I care about my country and the world and the people in it, but I already have a religion, and it's mostly about post this place. But the godless and the humanists and the dirt worshippers recognize only the here and now, and elevate it to make it their belief in something larger than themselves.

Re:I believe it (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 2 months ago | (#47290251)

You have the issue in a national security setting where you cannot disclose certain matters of What or How on certain topics. Hence the spectacle of DNI Clapper looking a fool on telly over specific events.
So they say nothing, or speak at uselessly high levels of abstraction.

For example the need for nationalized health care was so severely great, it totally justified even the most bald-faced lying. It was for the greater good.

And that is the Devil's logic.

Re:I believe it (1)

Bill Dog (726542) | about 2 months ago | (#47290385)

You have the issue in a national security setting where you cannot disclose certain matters [...]

I'm finding it harder and harder for me to shake off the feeling that this is mostly incompatible with a free society. And I choose an insecure, free society.

And that is the Devil's logic.

Thank you! And who do you think is driving the godless in all their godless pursuits? Nothing? It's just coincidence that it's what the Devil would want?

Human beings aren't evil, but we're prone to tremendous foolishness. I didn't get to the point of filtering out Lefties here because I think they're evil, they're just thoroughly compromised, and why would I want to subject myself to almost nothing but a bunch of lies. It does not profit a man.

Re:I believe it (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 2 months ago | (#47290531)

I hear you. Yet, spying and skullduggery are things that governments do. It's just useless to deny it.
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