U.S. Significantly Lowers Export Limitations 73
nevets writes: "The White house has announced yesterday that it will significantly change the export limitations on computers. Because of the increasingly availability of computers and clustering capabilities, the U.S. has decided that it can't keep up their policies with the changing technology. The export limitations are going from a four tier system to a three tier, with tier 1 and 2 merging, tier 3 changing, but tier 4 will stay the same." While the new rules still base their country-by-country distinctions on the basis of how many millions of theoretical operations per second (MTOPS) a computer can do, they do seem slightly saner. wiredog points out this story at The Washington Post as well.
Beowulf played a major role. (Score:1)
Maybe this will spark the industry (Score:2)
Hopefully, these reductions will be enough to spark the tepid computer market. It is becoming more difficult to sell computers in the U.S. as saturation increases.
To those who are worried about this technology falling into the wrong hands, remember, information and education are the enemies of despotism and the cornerstones of freedom. Encouraging the spread of information will increase the demand for Democracy worldwide.
Re:Hmmm. Is this a Linux story in the making? (Score:2)
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/134 [securityfocus.com]
Re:This sucks (Score:1)
In the mid 80s, France got a free test of their military arms in the iran-iraq war when they were supplying both sides of the border...
I somehow doubt that availability of comptuting equipment has any impact on weapon systems... a PS2 is quite far away from a missile guidance system... they'd be better off buying Shark DSPs and using those. Plus they're cheaper.
Re:This is good (Score:3)
"Do you have any illegal weapons?"
"Do you have any illegal drugs?"
Duh.
It's probably to allow for an additional charge (lying to an immigration officer or some such crap) during a possible prosecution.
Of course I answered truthfully. Only a moron would screw around with these people. Like a story I read in a motorcycle magazine: guy wanted a Canada only bike to bring into the US. He was a smart ass at customs, and got to wait another day because some of his paperwork wasn't in order. My guess is that if he had been pleasant and not flippant, he had a good chance at going through, even if he didn't dot all his 'i's and cross all his 't's.
weapons (Score:2)
Re:Expect this to be the new global paradigm (Score:1)
OpenBSD (Score:1)
IIRC OpenBSD doesn't let americans work directly on the project (or at least for the cryptography parts) because Theo wants to follow the laws of all the countries, and if those countries lose out, it's thier problem.
Let me get this straight (Score:5)
The thing I do not understand is this: Has the U.S. defence system get so much better that the dangerous bomb of yesteryear is no threat today?
If (say) Southern Swahililand could have developed a serious weapon last year with last years computers, how come today this is not worth worrying about, but a theoretical possibility of developing double as big bomb is?
if anyone wanted to take out Washington DC, they'd just ship in an old-fashioned bomb in a container. If anyone wanted to defend against an US invasion, they'd just bury the same old-fashioned bomb in the ground, retreat, and let it detonate when US troops were over it. No high-tech required! To rephrase: What is USA afraid of? There has been enough serious weapons to worry about for at least 30 years. So far none have been used against USA or its allies.
Yes, drive down them upgrade prices! (Score:2)
Re:Does this mean . . . (Score:1)
that Saddam Hussein can now have all the PS2's he wants?
Doesn't matter.
Those aren't made in the USA.
And Japan, Taiwan, Korea don't have those kind of import and export rules.
Again, the US is almost the only country which restricts the export and import of supercomputers.
So, they are as always make an arse of themself.
Japanese computer manufactorers found a way to sell US company's without the 100% import tax.
Sell them and run them from Japan.
No US import tax and US firms can buy supercomputers.
The only thing most US laws like the export limitation of strong encryption and supercomputers do is lowering the sales.
Very good for Asian and European company's.
But not so good for the US economy.
Re:I don't understand (Score:3)
It's the same old joke
I'll never understand the mentality
Just the opinions of lone Canadian, who's seen red (tape) for way to much of his existance.
If something has never been said/seen/heard before, best stop to think about why that is.
its easy! seti@home nuclear simulations ;-) (Score:1)
If you cant access the processing power, have the processing power come to you!
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:1)
The US Gov't fears other nations using supercomputers to develop higher yield nukes. It is my understanding that much of the code in the field of implosion characteristics is, shall we say, cycle intensive and highly customized. So you're right, you can't buy it in the store!
I was thinking more of a few years ago when we would hear the FBI drone on and on about how they can't fight the drug war without export controls on high encryption, blah blah blah. My comment was really more along this line of reasoning.
-- Cheers,
-- RLJ
Shades of ridiculousness (Score:1)
It always grabbed me as insane anyway. Particularly the software ones. What's to stop a diplomat in Washington popping out to his local Egghead or whatever and picking up whatever is restricted and sticking it in the diplomatic bag back home? I mean, duh!
Who needs fast computers? (Score:1)
I don't know how complicate today's computer is and how powerful it is. But what's the most important resource is the brainpower. Given enough brainpower, the lack of fast computers is not going to be a problem.
Export restriction is to prevent powerful weapon technology falls on to the hands of assholes, just like security measures of computers and networks on the internet are to prevent script kiddies and malicious crackers. You won't put security measures to the level that nobody can use your system. A country shouldn't put up export restriction to the level that hurts herself in all aspects.
The original export restriction is a joke. Some ways of export restriction are still needed, though whether the current change is effective and helpful subjects to some debates.
is this really "loosening"? (Score:5)
I.E. it may fsck with the Beowulf cluster sales... because now, since they are all strung together, they may be fast enought to fall under export controls.
so ... this could be a blow to upstart beowulf companies that want to expand into shipping overseas.
i dont know... it seems like the govt. is actually becoming MORE restrictive here... whilst saying that they are easing controls...
tagline
Comment removed (Score:3)
Re:3 Tiers? You be the judge! (Score:1)
Behind the Scenes ... (Score:3)
So that's government-speak for "Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these!"
I don't understand (Score:4)
I mean, all the hardware in my computer seems to be manufactured outside the US anyway, and very little is even assembled here, let alone manufactured. If a malcontent really wanted the teraflops, would they really have to get it from the US?
terror@home (Score:2)
foreign dictators hire some programmers to make terror@home the distributed computing project. people download the terror@home client and crunch numbers for leaders of terrorist states. 10 lucky participants are selected monthly and sent samples of biological and chemical weapons to use at their own discression along with a gift certificate to best buy where they can pick up another computer that can run the terror@home client.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
Am I the only person... (Score:2)
Export-a-crypto-system sig? (Score:2)
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]ds Xx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`
Seriously, though, is it?
Alex Bischoff
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This is good (Score:5)
I didn't ask him if anyone ever said yes to those questions.
Why we shouldn't have export restrictions (Score:2)
Case in point in regards to the middle eastern countries. Do we really know whats going on over there? Has anyone here actually been to iraq? How do we know this whole deal with suddam hussain isn't just another attempt at the goverment trying to get political support from the people when we go to war?
Ok so let me bring you to my point. It is possible that saddam would use these machines to build weapons and make big boom things blow up. It could also be possible he just wants them for geological calculations on his oil fields and our goverment is trying to hide the truth. Think about all our veterans that returned with gulf war syndrome. Headaches, nausia, arthritis all over, yet the
Maybe he just wants to surf the web, who knows? Anyone remember General Kadaffi? He was Suddam Hussain before there was a Suddam Hussain. Yet in the last 10 years he has been rebuilding his country, bringing water to the desert, giving land to his people, medical and welfare programs which have greatly improved conditions.
I think there is something Hussain has that the goverment wants. It could be oil, could be plutonium deposits, could be camels for all I know. Point is they're starving the country to death by putting all these trade restrictions and embargo's on them. This article made me think back to another article a few weeks back about atari800 computers still being used in russia for heart monitoring. I would imagine most of the middle eastern countries are worse off because they purchased most of what they have from the old USSR. I think it is inhumane to deny another human the absolute best in medical technology.
By lifting the ban on exporting powerfull computers it would open up a world of new possibilities for them. If we lifted all the bans there would be nothing to fight about at all (unless like I said,
In retrospect, I can allmost understand why Iraq hates us so much. We've blocked the import of more than just computers, between the US and the UN we've managed to block food, medicine, clothing, just about anything you can think of.
I'd suggest everyone check out the food-for-oil stuff here http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/iraq99.
--toqer
So Apple's G4 portable _can_ leave the country. (Score:2)
Hmmm...now I just have to con my work into buying it for me.
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:2)
I have a feeling the software export restrictions were not instated to keep the kind of software Egghead sells from leaving American soil. I mean, who really cares if some fascist dictator gets his filthy hands on The Sims, Word Perfect, or Clean Sweep 2000? That's right, nobody. A very jingoistic individual might make a case for Quake 3 and the like ("They might learn advanced battle tactics!"), but... c'mon.
These restrictions are as far as I can tell focused on the kinds of software that you can't buy in the store. As the parent post pointed out: snooping software, high-level encryption, and weapon-focused CAD (a stretch). The kind of stuff that's sold by contract, is usually highly customized and proprietary, and remains in use by organizations for more than 15 years.
I suppose one could make a case with browsers, what with built-in encryption and what-not. I guess my point stands, because you can't buy that crap in stores anymore. :)
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:1)
Well, damn, I'd hate to see the FBI unable to combat drugs. If those cartels nabbed some encryption, boy -- we might even start to lose that war! Can't be having that. Must... fight... drugs... Citizens... have no... willpower...
"Put em up, pu-put em up!"
"If I were the king of the forrrest..."
Milosevic might learn that if you run diagonally, you go faster. Bad news all around.
U.S. rules!!!! (Score:1)
When U.S. companies have problems in exporting their goods, U.S. goverment decide this kind of things and blocks other nations' capability, especially South Korea.
Korean steel companies and semiconductor companies will have problems this year, because of U.S. goverment's act on them. ( Again! )
Didn't the U.S. say "Free Trade"?
Now a days, it seems to me that U.S. controls market more than Korea controls market. Hmm..
MTOPS is an invalid scale (Score:2)
We all know that if you take enough low-powered machines, of the sort that anyone can get hold of, such as low-end pentiums, even 486's, etc. and stick them in a big enough warehouse, you can build machines that will out-compute any commercially available off-the-shelf single supercomputer. You only have to look at the Stone SouperComputer [ornl.gov] to see what is possible.
Hopefully, Saddam hasn't got the hang of
Re:This is good (Score:1)
> "Do you have any illegal drugs?"
> Duh.
> It's probably to allow for an additional charge
> (lying to an immigration officer or some such
> crap) during a possible prosecution.
IANALO (I Am Not A Law Officer), but I'll bet
they ask those questions not for your answer
(which will of course be "No") but to gauge
your reaction to being asked it (how good a poker
player are you...?).
Chris Mattern
Re:Let me get this straight (Score:1)
There has been enough serious weapons to worry about for at least 30 years. So far none have been used against USA or its allies.
Wrong! Any number of "serious" weapons were used against the US and her allies in Irag. Sure, the US had bigger toys, but that's the idea behind limiting the spread of hardware/software. We (the US) don't like playing fair; it costs more American lives. So what's the US afraid of? China with stealth fighters, Korea with ballistic missiles, and the middle east with biowarfare capbilities. All those can be helped (and hidden) with fast computers and cryptographic software.
Re:This is good (Score:1)
Re:Or Software Developers... (Score:1)
-m-
Re:Why we shouldn't have export restrictions (Score:1)
Besides, denying another human being the absolute best in medical technology is not considered inhuman. It is the very essence of what makes the big pharma so profitable.
-m-
Costs should go lower (Score:2)
-Moondog
Re:Uh (Score:1)
You are in direct violation of US Penal Code Chapter 34, subsection 68b.2.d paragraph 6: possesion of the assumption that the United States operates in a sane and reasonable manner.
You will be tried by a kangaroo court (we'll add in a wallaby if you lawyers so request - but only if they are paid more than the GNP of Swaziland) and sentenced to death, or to wear tweed flannel pants in public - whichever causes your parole officer, at her sole discretion, to laugh more.
*sigh* It's so sad to see otherwise fine young men turn to a life of senseless rationality.
Expect this to be the new global paradigm (Score:2)
Today, communism is completely gone from the world stage, and the old "$ord world" classification is obsolete. But the information age is upon us and is now defining our new political and social interactions in a global sense. I propose that we update our vocabularies with this new tiered classification which is rooted in the very machines that will drive our new economies. For future generations, it'll be much more important to know whether countries have or had access to the latest and greatest imports from the US technology giants than whether they had a particular stance on a silly thing like communism.
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:1)
I personally, and I believe I am not alone, think it is a waste of gov't time to try and stem the tide of software beyond US borders. What's to keep any foreign national from chartering a flight to the US, wandering into Egghead, getting what they want, and returning to any of the Tier 4 countries? Granted, it's sometimes difficult to physically get here, but there's always your brother's wife's cousin who lives in the states. You could have him e-mail you a copy of X, Y Z software.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just saying that applying the export controls philosophy to the software arena smells like a problem brewing to me. I think we need different and better thinking on the subject.
Cheers,
-- RLJ
Jobs' take? (Score:3)
Re:This is good (Score:1)
Or Software Developers... (Score:3)
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:1)
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:2)
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Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:2)
Yup, that's the arrogant part of the equation. The risk is that we'll fall behind the rest of the world as more and more software is developed in countries without such laws.
BTW, a user submitted this story to Poliglut yesterday, so politically minded folks might be intersested in stopping by and seeing our other stuff.
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Re:Or Software Developers... (Score:1)
Re:is this really "loosening"? (Score:1)
Re:Expect this to be the new global paradigm (Score:1)
Since when did.... (Score:2)
With the whitehouse (executive branch) announcing this has been done is pure obfuscation. Its taking credit for actions done by another branch of government. Thats like claiming the executive branch is solely responsible for all economics. Oh wait! It already does even though the executive branch's only economic power is to request funds from Congress. Oh well...
Re:Hmmm. Is this a Linux story in the making? (Score:1)
If they are building "beowulf" computers, then why the heck would they want to build them around something as cost-inneffective as alphas? Why not use tbirds? Easier and cheaper, and more power for the $$$.
Re:This is good (Score:2)
It is fortunate that this procedure is in place and that people do not ever lie. Otherwise, the sale of computers might be a risk to world security.
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Re:I don't understand (Score:2)
Nope, they wouldn't. That's really why the administration is lifting the ban. If anyone could reasonably argue that the ban met any national security objective, it would still be in place.
Its similar to the arguments for lifting the restriction on crypto. If you can't put the genie back in the bottle, you may as well make sure that U.S. companies are not weakened by trade restrictions that only serve to restrict their ability to compete internationally.
Thiss mean I can take my supah-l337 G4 overseas? (Score:1)
I saw the ads. The TV told me that the G4 pulled so many flops it was a "supah-computer" and there were export restrictions and whatnot on it.
That's how I knew I had to buy that supah-l337 bad boy. The TV would never lie to me. Jeff Goldbloom has no motivation to mislead me.
...
If you doubt me, click here ... [ridiculopathy.com]
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:1)
Re:its easy! seti@home nuclear simulations ;-) (Score:1)
Re:Let me get this straight (Score:1)
Why is India a Tier 3 country (Score:1)
Re:This sucks (Score:1)
Hmmm. Is this a Linux story in the making? (Score:3)
The market for very expensive supercomputers is limited to those organizations and countries with the money to buy them.
Seems to me that companies wanting to spread newly legal high-power computing around could do well by constructing machines with clustered/SMP'd off-the-shelf parts and little or no R&D $$ Linux (Beowulf?).
Gosh -- what might Compaq do with Alphas?
Export could be controlled more like a commodity (Score:2)
I would expect things to be broken down even more -- into 1 tier with exceptions.
I work at a microchip distributor, and we currently ship to countries all over the world. I think that the software export controls will become similar to those of what I see in electronic components. Most parts can be found anywhere in the world and, for the most part, US customs doesnt do much in the way of controlling their export (you may not agree if you are the one filling out the paperwork, but you know what I mean :) There are then parts that are restricted based upon various reasons, some being the country into which they are being shipped, the particular company purchasing, the end use of the product, and of course the product itself.
Believe me, there are hundreds of pages sent each month about companies that are known in various countries to do business with others, and it is our responsiblity to know that we can no longer ship product X to company Y.
Specifics aside, I think it is a good thing finally that the government is realizing that they need a different way of doing things, because the old ways just simply didnt work.
I don't get it... (Score:2)
Tier 5 (Score:1)
Not to mention Tier 5 (Microsoft Headquarters, Half.com, Oregon [half.com] and Hell).
Seems a little bit bogus (Score:2)
They may be out to prevent {en,de}cryption problems or something, but if you can't design a workable nuke with the discarded CPU boards that some of us geeks now have in storage, you shouldn't be in the business.
`ø,,ø!
Political & Economic Pressure (Score:4)
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Export Restrictions Effect (Score:1)
Re:is this really "loosening"? (Score:2)
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so... at least to me, it seems that they have recognized the potential computing power of clusters.
tagline
how do the define export? (Score:2)
Anybody know what the export distinction is in this case?
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Re:This sucks (Score:2)
Ah France, just because the world needed someone to make US internet policy decisions look good.
_____________
Re:Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:1)
This is funny (Score:2)
Big ass Crays, VMS, RS 6000s, hey no problemo! But don't export too many deskpros!
LK
Re:This sucks (Score:2)
You are obviously a troll, so I really shouldn't reply, but here goes...
The U.S. computer market is rapidly saturating. It is always more difficult to sell an upgrade than it is to sell to a new user. Computer manufacturers need to be able to sell there wares throughout the world to countries that are less technologically developed in order to stay in business.
Draconian restrictions on computer exports will not stop international criminals from getting their hands on the technology, but it will serve to cripple U.S. computer manufacturers.
Practicalities and interesting tidbit (Score:5)
I understand this as a practical matter, but I wonder whether the US is the only country that has such software. It seems unlikely, and, while I understand that they feel they have to do what they can to preserve national security, other countries can still sell, distribute, or develop such software in the future. Still, this is good for all of those countries that need powerful computers and don't have the expertise or resources to develop them on their own.