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Wireless Networks to Native Reservations

michael posted about 13 years ago | from the saving-some-wampum dept.

The Internet 87

akb writes: "Interesting article entitled Native Networking Trends: Wireless Broadband Networks describing a project which provided three Indian reservations near San Diego with wireless broadband connectivity. The collaboration between UC San Diego and the Southern California Tribal Chairman Association has attracted additional funding from HP's Digital Village Program doubling the original NSF allocation, which will allow the network to expand to connect 18 reservations to the Internet and educational facilities. The network sports a 45mbps wireless backbone with 802.11b uplinks." The HPWREN pages have a lot of interesting information, including specifications for their 45 megabit solar-powered relays.

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Doubtful (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330764)

Did I get it?

Re:Doubtful (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330769)


Re:Doubtful (-1)

evil_spork (444038) | about 13 years ago | (#2330794)

And I just claimed it as my first post. Thanks, AC.

Re:Doubtful (-1, Offtopic)

Sunken Kursk (518450) | about 13 years ago | (#2330808)


Re:Doubtful (-1)

l33t j03 (222209) | about 13 years ago | (#2330899)

You sack milker, you need to proudly proclaim your superiority when you go for FP. Put some ASCII art up there. Use bold tags. Do whatever, but make sure it is forceful and direct and makes people cower in fear.

guh (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330767)


Re:guh (0)

jiheison (468171) | about 13 years ago | (#2330830)


you are probably taking dick RIGHT NOW (-1)

Sexual Asspussy (453406) | about 13 years ago | (#2330834)

don't forget to cough at the moment he comes

Franklin said it best! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330775)

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

In related news... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330784)

Popp writes in: Hi there I just wanted to give some information about something I read on your site. On the page about Mark Wallice, someone emailed to state that they thought that Mark Wallice [mailto] had appeared in the gay adult film Route 69. I wanted to let you know that I watched that film quite recently and I am quite sure that Mark Wallice did not appear in that film. It seems true that the only gay adult film he ever appeared in was A Matter Of Size.

Re:In related news... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330872)

Check this link [] out for more news! This has much more information than the site in the story.

Good idea (-1)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2330793)

Sure beats smoke signals.

Smoke signals can be tough to read. (1)

narroost (180395) | about 13 years ago | (#2330819)

It's so hard to tell what's a 1 or a 0 with smoke signals, thank god for 802.11b!!!

Re:Smoke signals can be tough to read. (-1)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2330861)

Yeah but at least smoke signals don't give you brain cancer.

Re:Smoke signals can be tough to read. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2331075)

Yeah, they only give you lung cancer

My view on the subject. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330802)

The collaboration between UC San Diego and the Southern California Tribal Chairman Association has attracted additional funding from HP's Digital Village Program doubling the original NSF allocation, which will allow the network to expand to connect 18 reservations to the Internet and educational facilities. The network sports a 45mbps wireless backbone with 802.11b uplinks.

Sincerely, Mike Bouma

Re:My view on the subject. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330807)

Attention moderators, please mod the above post down as offtopic and troll. Thanks.

Re:My view on the subject. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330823)

How can this cut & paste work be offtopic?

No shit Sherlock.

Sincerely, Mike Bouma

declaring war (-1, Offtopic)

arw (222049) | about 13 years ago | (#2330810)

Subject: This means war!

White men, either you give us Whiskey, guns or a wireless lan.
If not, you will die.

Re:declaring war (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330864)

What makes the red man red?

Re:declaring war (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330912)

the embarresment of selling new york state for 3 trinkets and small pox blanket.

Re:declaring war (-1)

Spootnik (518145) | about 13 years ago | (#2331425)

Step right up whitey, I'd like to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. Would you like clouds with that?

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

Re: Selling New York (2)

Robber Baron (112304) | about 13 years ago | (#2331834)

the embarresment of selling new york state for 3 trinkets and small pox blanket.

It was goods worth about $20, and had they been able to invest it in some sort of compound interest generating fund at the time, today they'd be able to buy all of Manhattan, including the buildings. A fair trade, I'd say. Besides, if they'd turned Manhattan into a maximum security prison in 1997 like they were supposed to, it wouldn't be worth very much,would it?

Kill all AC fuckheads. Destroy Sporks. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330813)

Our precious slashdot users scream out for vengeance:

1. Kill all Trolls.
2. Kill all Sporks.
3. Kill all Monkeys.
4. Kill all Trollmans.
5. Kill all Buttfuckers.
6. Kill all AC fuckheads.
7. Kill all Jeff Ks.
8. Kill all SpanishInquisitions.
9. Nuke Adequacy to hell.
10. Nuke Geekizoid again.
11. Death to Goatsex.

I piss on Hot Grits. I wipe my ass with "Steven King is Dead." I spit on Natalie Portman.

Please remove my name from that list (-1)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2330835)

Someone gave you false information.
I am not a troll and I never was.
Thank you.

you are mistaken (-1)

motherfuckin_spork (446610) | about 13 years ago | (#2330876)

you are one of us.

always have been.

welcome to the party.


Re:you are mistaken (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330887)

kill all motherfucking sporks..

Re:Please remove my name from that list (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2331091)

No, you are a raging homosexual and a nigger, but definitely not a troll.

Poop alore! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330839)

You relize you included yourself in that list, right?

Online casinos (1)

richie2000 (159732) | about 13 years ago | (#2330815)

Is this meant to take their casinos online? IMHO that would be a good way for the natives to finally get some revenge on the white man.

USA out of America! :-)

Re:Online casinos (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330846)

I was a bit surprised by this news myself. I've never been to an Indian casino with wireless access, this could be great!

Re:Online casinos (1)

FortKnox (169099) | about 13 years ago | (#2330865)

"You Win!!...


Re:Online casinos (1)

Unknown Bovine Group (462144) | about 13 years ago | (#2331628)

...including specifications for their 45 megabit solar-powered relays.

Hey! Stop-um rain dance! Cloud gods cause Chief Carpel-Tunnel's Quake game to lag.

Re:Online casinos (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2331194)

Yeah, because every white man alive today was involved in the taking of land from Native Americans!

Re:Online casinos (1)

richie2000 (159732) | about 13 years ago | (#2331480)

Have you given any of it back lately?

Sometimes, the children have to set right what their fathers did wrong - at least if they have a more evolved sense of ethics and higher moral standards. I can, in a way, understand the settlers seeing the natives as a threat (especially since the government wanted to portray them as such) but that doesn't justify us hanging on to their land and even stealing more for uranium mines and whatnot. BTW, I don't like the Israeli occup... Settling of the Gaza strip and West bank either.

Re:Online casinos (1)

HerrNewton (39310) | about 13 years ago | (#2331373)

Only six of the native run casinoes show any great profit. Many of them barely break even and most are there simply as a job source on the reservations.

Re:Online casinos (1)

richie2000 (159732) | about 13 years ago | (#2331523)

If it keeps them off the booze, I'm all for it.

Seriously, the ones that aren't showing profits - are they just too far off in the deserts/whereever to get the crowds in or did they overinvest in the facilities to begin with? I've just seen the profitable ones on TV and kinda assumed all of them made a killing... The faltering ones should really think about going online, in this economy there should be no problem finding geeks willing to hack up their platforms for glass pearls and some mescal juice.

Re:Online casinos (2)

HerrNewton (39310) | about 13 years ago | (#2332233)

They're not faltering in that they are fufilling their intended goal: to make as many jobs as possible without running too deeply in the red.

Wireless and 3G (2)

MosesJones (55544) | about 13 years ago | (#2330818)

These sorts of projects are a kick in the teeth to the wireless companies who will soon be trying to sell 3G tech. Or is it that these will become redundant with the advent of 3G.

Personally I can't wait till the day when my laptop has a wireless 3G card that can connect at high speed whenever and where ever I want.

Re:Wireless and 3G (1)

richie2000 (159732) | about 13 years ago | (#2330873)

You can do that now: Get a GPRS phone with Bluetooth, pay the Man for the data subscription, get a Bluetooth PCMCIA card for your laptop and you're off. Sure, it's more like 2.6G, but you're unlikely to spot the difference without heavy file transfers and you can just take a walk around the block while the pr0n downloads. Exercise while having fun!

Can you imagine my delight when I saw the Bluetooth stuff in the 2.4.8 kernel xconfig? I don't have the hardware yet, but just seeing it in there gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling that nothing from Redmond ever has come close to providing. *thinks back* Well, OK, the Shell Preview for NT 3.51 was pretty close... Anyone know if XP has any Bluetooth stuff included? I seem to recall they gave Firewire a bit of a miss, maybe they did the same with BT?

Re:Wireless and 3G (1)

Quizme2000 (323961) | about 13 years ago | (#2330948)

Instead of carrying a phone and a laptop (walking while using a laptop, I don't think so) The Ipaq to be released in Oct. will have an active matrix 65K color screen and a wireless package that supports both BT and 802.11b will be released later in Dec. I have the Ipaq H3670 with a 802.11 card in the expansion pack already. Much lighter than a laptop and you can see the screen in bright light, without the 3G infrastructure.

Re:Wireless and 3G (1)

richie2000 (159732) | about 13 years ago | (#2331119)

Well, there you are then. If you can't leech 802.11 access everywhere (point those antennas out the windows, people! Yes! Windows - out!) just go with the GPRS option and you'll be set.

I've posted this before, but I still want someone to build it: A complete modular portable wireless PC system consisting of a laptop/webpad, a cordless headset (with mike built-in, skull resonance fashion) and a phone/PDA. All of the components talk Bluetooth with each other and all of them work on their own or together with any of the others. The headset would store 30 minutes worth of MP3 or Ogg songs in walk-alone mode or stream them (or radio, or phone-over-IP or whatever) from the phone/PDA (2 hours' worth of storage) or laptop. All of them sync automatically when in range, keep track of friends (a REAL psychic friend's network!) nearby and so on, and so forth. The Star Trek-like comm badge for activating the voice-recognition system is mandatory. Gimme now! I wanna be a gargoyle too!

Re:Wireless and 3G (2)

Cato (8296) | about 13 years ago | (#2331179)

XP doesn't have support for Bluetooth (raised a bit of press when MS supported 802.11b instead), allegedly due to Bluetooth's immaturity.

Re:Wireless and 3G (1)

richie2000 (159732) | about 13 years ago | (#2331444)

Immaturity? Yeah, like XP's 'mature'... After the third Service Pack, maybe. Thanks for the info.

Anyway, I see 802.11b (why can't someone come up with a reasonable name for this?) and Bluetooth as different solutions to different problems in different situations, albeit with a few overlaps in the middle somewhere.

Re:Wireless and 3G (2)

kilgore_47 (262118) | about 13 years ago | (#2331096)

Personally I can't wait till the day when my laptop has a wireless 3G card that can connect at high speed whenever and where ever I want.

I think you might have to wait, since the military just changed their mind [] about opening a large part of the spectrum.

Re:Wireless and 3G (2)

Cato (8296) | about 13 years ago | (#2331162)

This particular project has got little to do with 3G, because it is not mainly about mobility - the project used point-to-point fixed wireless (45 Mbps) for backbone links, and long-distance 802.11b (and plain 802.11b) for access links. The idea is to link schools and research centres to the Internet, rather than support mobile users.

There is a threat to 3G from wireless LANs, but that's from operators like MobileStar, who are setting up access points in 4,000 Starbucks locations across the US (and similar operators in Europe, some with 3G licenses). If 802.11b can get its power requirements down, and if coverage improves, it could prove to be a real competitor to 3G, particularly because its hardware and spectrum costs are already very low compared to 3G.

censordot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330824)

slashdot continuely restricts free speech with stronger and stronger measures. Now users who express unpopular views such as admiting internet explorer is a powerful and stable browser or that linux might not actually be the best of all time are modded down and banned. Now the ban has been increased, if you are modded down only 5 times in 72 hours you will be banned for several days. Now that va linux stock is below a dollar are they making an effort to destroy any opposing viewpoints?

This is ridiculous. Slashdot whines about free speech restrictions from microsoft while at the same time forces draconian restrictions on it's own user base. It's ridiculous. Do you think banning people and making every conversation one sided and dull will help your failing company stay afloat?

When the ceo starts selling off stocks like mad becuase the price is sub 1$ i think that says, it ain't comin back, only way is down.

Re:censordot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330889)

It's all Michael Sims [] fault! Don't blame it on Taco and Hemos.

And once they have this highspeed access...? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about 13 years ago | (#2330829)

Build infrastructure and let 'em go at it, doing whatever they want? The reason I ask is, although this is all planned to be a "good thing", I worry that it could lead to a "not-so-good-thing", i.e. Virtual Indian Casinos (in competition with brick-and stucco casinos, Vegas, etc.)

Re:And once they have this highspeed access...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2331103)

Oh no! Imagine that, native americans having the same corporate advantages as the bilagaana! Vegas has the ability (lawfully, mind you) to have a virtual casino based in Nevada, why is there an issue now with natives having the same thing? Besides, I seriously doubt it will be used in this way... considering the reservations have been starving for 'net connections for some time now. This is something I've been thinking on doing on the Navajo reservation. It's not like natives are any different than you or I... just not given the same type of novelties and technology. If they were, they would surpass the normal tech world in an instant.

Dan Lund
Who doesn't feel the need to log in.

Re:And once they have this highspeed access...? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about 13 years ago | (#2332196)

Not the point, the point is they're being _given_ this access. I have to pay for it, probably you, to, same for Vegas.

What is heartening (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330845)

What is most heartening about this news is that these reservations are at the point that feeding and educating the children are not determinants of survival anymore. Contrast this initiative with the rampant poverty usually associated with reservations and it is clear that Native Americans are making large strides in improving their lots.

How cool will it be when this kind of news isn't news anymore?

Re:What is heartening (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330863)

You are being a little foolish. Native americans are doing very little to improve their lots. In this case, it's just more charity.

In six months... (1)

Quizme2000 (323961) | about 13 years ago | (#2330868)

You'll see banner ads for the new Online Indian Casinos..But really that's quite a task considering some reservations are the size of RI. My question is do the network cards in the computers or devices need to be attached to an external antenna as well? I gained another 1000ft when I attached a standard CB antenna to my access point. I could get Internet access from my apartment across the highway from work. What are some other (cheap) way's to improve distance? Maybe I could get a Seti tower..hmmm

Cool Stuff (2)

cryptochrome (303529) | about 13 years ago | (#2330869)

See, now this is cool. Obviously the uses for this developing mode of technology go way beyond the Native American sphere. My favorite thing about it is that it doesn't rely on wires for power OR transmission. A handful of solar-powered relays looks a lot nicer, is a lot cheaper, is much less intrusive, and is much more easily scalable and robust than a bunch of wires strewn everywhere(and thankfully people are finally starting to appreciate that with solar and other distributed power generation).

Solar is Great! (2)

wiredog (43288) | about 13 years ago | (#2330941)

Until you get a three day rainstorm. It is getting better, but it's not there yet.

Re:Solar is Great! (2)

cryptochrome (303529) | about 13 years ago | (#2330983)

Well, with a large enough battery you could buffer against anything... Or an oversized solar array to compensate for less light... or a replaceable backup power source for emergency use (like a zinc-air battery)... or a multipath network to take up the slack if one relay is shut down for some reason (not the case here)... or whatever. Point being, there are simple solutions around this problem. I think it IS here, but we're only now just starting to realize it and shake the technology down into a truly useful and inexpensive form.

Re:Solar is Great! (1)

Fox MacLeod (523013) | about 13 years ago | (#2331173)

Why do you think it's being deployed in San Diego? It hardly ever rains here anymore.

Re:Solar is Great! (1)

imsmith (239784) | about 13 years ago | (#2331378)

Alt. Energy is great, and solar is just part of the equation. I spent some time working on a trunked radio network (the digital radios that emergency services use) that was 100% non-grid. The power at each site came from a big solar array, a crap-load of batteries, a few wind generators, and two propane generators. This meant that if the site was fogged in, the batteries powered the site for upto 72 hours, and if it was a storm instead of fog, the wind generators fed the system instead of the solar arrays. And when the site was in the middle of a brushfire the generators could run for the whole week while the smoke obscured the sun. The only other time the generators ran when I worked there was for their maintenance cycles - just to keep things from gumming up.

I wondered about having the propane delivered out in the middle of nowhere, but, as one guy who had been there a long time said, when the EPA made them put in porta-johns, the prospect of getting propane refils delivered was "no worse than getting the shitters cleaned"

Re:Solar is Great! (1)

danjerdanjel (519284) | about 13 years ago | (#2339338)

I used to run the webpage and some publicity stuff for a Solar Racing Team.. On our 100kg of our Pb Acid batteries (that weren't the most efficient in the race, but were cheapest), we could drive from Sydney to Melbourne with complete cloud cover all the way. I'm assuming the system probably uses something a bit more complex, perhaps Li/Ion batteries, which would allow them to maintain power through conceivable lapses in sunlight. I wouldn't imagine that their power usage would be all that high (as relative to a Solar racing car) anyway. ;)

Security? (2)

dragons_flight (515217) | about 13 years ago | (#2330886)

If you look at these pages [] , we are talking about $3000-$5500 worth of relay equipment sitting out in the middle of nowhere. What happens if someone comes along and decide they'd want some of that for themselves?

Of course no one would ever want to steal from the Indians... Oh, wait, nevermind.

Re:Security? (3, Informative)

dhogaza (64507) | about 13 years ago | (#2331054)

Well ... there's already a large number of microwave links, beacons, and other expensive electronic gear scattered around the Mojave, Sonoran and Great Basins deserts, guarded by nothing more than a chain link
fence with razor wire on the top.

I suppose this stuff gets vandalized from time-to-time. A few rounds from a 30-'06 are more likely than theft, though - check out the road signs
next time you visit us out in the InterMountain West.

My point's simple, though - this stuff's no more likely to be ripped off or vandalized than the expensive equipment that already decorates some of
our mountaintops, and you deal with it the same way. Insure and replace as necessary.

Lightning's probably a bigger risk, anyway. Mountains out here get slammed consistently (I assume they're locating the relays on mountains).

Re:Security? (2)

eric2hill (33085) | about 13 years ago | (#2331377)

My point's simple, though - this stuff's no more likely to be ripped off or vandalized than the expensive equipment that already decorates some of
our mountaintops, and you deal with it the same way. Insure and replace as necessary.

I'm sure insurance companies would charge a premium because of this, and because of the high premiums, corporate backers would have a much higher bottom line cash outflow, and thus would be less likely to invest. Until the technology can come down into the hundreds of dollars range, I don't see this becoming wide spread.

4A 55 53 54 20 4D 59 20 24 30 2E 30 32

Coming Soon! (3, Interesting)

JoeShmoe (90109) | about 13 years ago | (#2330945)

Gambling at your favorite online Indian Gaming casino!

Actually, I'm in California tribes have already gotten permission to run casinos on their land (although I believe the matter is still going through the courts) so then could the same tribes run their own online gaming?

Do Indian tribes have to abide by the Hague Convention or the Berne treaty or whatever that copyright protection treaty is?

Think about it...Indians are desperately seeking self-reliance, which is pretty much impossible given the crappy ass desert land they were given. So what if they built a few wind turbines and ran a data haven? Do you think Disney et. al. could really bully them?

I would be really intersted in finding out about this. We have been looking for safe havens and if we put Indian reservations on the Internet that sounds like it might fit the bill?

- JoeShmoe

Re:Coming Soon! (2)

Syberghost (10557) | about 13 years ago | (#2331240)

Do Indian tribes have to abide by the Hague Convention or the Berne treaty or whatever that copyright protection treaty is?

Depends on the tribe. Each tribe has a treaty with the US, defining (among other things) how US law affects them.

Some have stupid treaties, and are essentially US territories with little autonomy.

Others, like the Chickasaws for instance, have treaties that fully preserve their sovereignity, and are essentially another country inside the US, subject to US law only if their tribal legislature votes to be subject to it.

We have been looking for safe havens and if we put Indian reservations on the Internet that sounds like it might fit the bill?

Some tribes have thought about this. And some already have ISPs.

The Chickasaws had one (I know, I built it), but they sold it. However, to the best of my knowledge it still exists on tribal land, and is owned by a Chickasaw, so it is probably still not subject to US law.

Re:Coming Soon! (1)

JumpyMonkey (235723) | about 13 years ago | (#2331328)

There are less than 3000 Indians on 20 reservations in eastern San Diego County. 8 of these 20 reservations have casinos of varying size - most have slots, blackjack, poker, buffet dining and valet parking.

One of the casinos biggest is on the Pala, which rolled out the first phase of this wireless project. Pala has a huge advertising budget and attracts tens of thousands of gamblers from all over Southern California. Most (all?) of these casinos are nominally fronted by Indians but are actually built, managed and operated day-by-day by Nevada gaming companies.

The casinos have been a finincial bonanza to these reservations and, frankly, good for them. However, this story is NOT about poor rural Native Americans with limited prospects being given a leg up with modern technology.

Safe Havens (1)

imsmith (239784) | about 13 years ago | (#2331534)

That sounds nice, but come on - right now we are displaying the power to impose our will on truely soverign nations, what defense does a tribal nation have against that force, no matter how well written their treaty is. The likelyhood that safe havens could be established on tribal lands is pretty slim - particularly if there isn't the ability to distinguish between the principled customer who is in violation of the law but practicing civil disobedience, and the criminal who acts with malice to endanger the populous and the government..

Re:Safe Havens (2)

JoeShmoe (90109) | about 13 years ago | (#2331719)

They are a sympathic cause. Why do you think they have gambling? Because it was called the "Vegas Casinos Make Billions, Why Can't We" Act? No, it was "Indian Self-Reliance". All of the major casino groups lobbied like mad to try to get people to vote against it, but it was tough to make it look like they were victims. The Indian leaders talked about all the jobs, schools, medicine and food it would bring them. Casinos had to try to sidetrack the issue and dwell on the fact that Indians didn't have to pay taxes on their income, wah wah.

So, if the Indian nations want to try to get self-reliance by forming an electronic economy, lawmakers are going to have a tough time siding with their traditional lobbyists. Who wants to appear to be trouncing on the already impoverished Indian nations to line the pockets of a few select media corporations? I think it would be an interesting way to test the laws, and that's why I would encourage people to investigate this.

- JoeShmoe

I work for a company that does this... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2330973)

We [] have been planning this for a while and recently rolled it out this year. We have 3 towers for a mid-size city (Springfield Missouri, USA). You can use it anywhere in the city - even in your car. There is a small antenna that hooks up to a special network card.

Our transmission rates are way above T1 and because there is no cost of leasing lines or anything we can provide it cheap (comparatively).

We also put up 1 tower in a nearby town. This one tower covers the whole town. We got funding from the county because the county court system sits in that town and needed to be on broadband but couldn't get to it in the traditional ways.

We just rent space from radio stations on their towers - so the setup is minimal. It really is a great system


Re:I work for a company that does this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2334719)

There are some 300 small ISPs doing this sort of work. The infrastructure costs are low, the range with appropriate antennas is great, the bandwidth good, and in the case of rural america, so far superior to the really crappy copper lines that there is no comparison. Think rural, think distance, think no right of way issues, no poles to put up, and it is the logical and inexpensive way to enfranchise those of us who choose rural.

Wow! (2, Funny)

Schaffner (183973) | about 13 years ago | (#2331205)

Now you won't need to wire a head for a reservation!

(Sorry, it's a reference to a very bad old joke. I just couldn't resist the opportunity.)

Broadband First (0)

INicheI (513673) | about 13 years ago | (#2331223)

It is amazing that the indians are getting broadband the same time that my city is.

Wampum? (3, Informative)

pschmied (5648) | about 13 years ago | (#2331225)

From one journalist to another, this is probably not a good term to use the way you did.

I'm not wanting to be a PC thug, but here's the entry in the AP Style Book:

Indians American Indian is the preferred term for those in the United States. Where possible, be precise and use the name of the tribe: He is a Navajo commissioner. Native American is acceptable in quotations and names of organizations.

In news stories about American Indians, such words as wampum, warpath, powwow, tepee, brave, squaw, etc., can be disparaging and offensive. Be careful and certain of their usage.


Re:Wampum? (2)

cryptochrome (303529) | about 13 years ago | (#2331472)

Well, if we really wanted to be accurate and straightforward (i.e. not having to ask whether someone is an American Indian or an East Indian when somebody says "Indian"), "American Aboriginals" or some short variation on that (amerabs?) would make the most sense. But I doubt that would ever catch on, since "Indian" is so firmly entrenched in our vocabulary. We'd sooner stop calling East Indians "Indians" than that.

Re:Wampum? (1)

HerrNewton (39310) | about 13 years ago | (#2331498)

Preferred usage in Canada is Indeginous People changing, of course, "people" to "person" if used in the singular.

Russel Means likes the phrase American Indian.. to quote, "Because it means I'm an American first, and then an Indian... we're the only minority that puts the American first"

Piss on all political correctness! (2)

Robber Baron (112304) | about 13 years ago | (#2331688)

In Canada they use the insipid term "first nations" when describing indians. First what...? Bullshit! Prove to me that they were on this planet before anyone else! Besides, I was born in North America. By definition, that makes me a native.

AP Style Book?? (2)

alienmole (15522) | about 13 years ago | (#2333484)

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but /. doesn't often adhere to the AP Style Book!!

Here are a couple of sample sentences from today's front page:

"Having had to play through some real stinkers of games before, I applaud Maxis decision to kill the product, rather then try to release it on an unsuspecting public CT Cry!"

"The Internet is a peer-to-peer system where one peer can piss in the public pool. These ISPs are doing a good thing by keeping this crap off the net."

I look forward to your AP Style Book critique of the above!

Kevin Costner's latest movie... (1)

Old Wolf (56093) | about 13 years ago | (#2331299)

...Dances with Wireless

could this harken an Indian re-emergence? (1)

imsmith (239784) | about 13 years ago | (#2331462)

Imagine, online casinos create a positive cash flow for Tribal governments, the capital allows for real social change - illiteracy and alcoholism and domestic abuse decline - and every Res in America connected via wireless VPNs to every other Res in America. Best of luck, its a long road.

funny how life works (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2332118)

by being responsible and having a good work ethic it is amazing how one can suceed. No, you can't expect to every be rich by most internal American standards of rich (poverty here is still like a royal house in many countries), but you can indeed take charge of your future.

I wonder if all the reservations are connectec as an 'Indian' network, does this mean that they are segmented from the rest of Earth society? Will they start killing each other like in Africa... killing life long friends with a already bloodied and skull pitted machete simply because he and his tiny infants are of 'another tribe'.

I don't know about that, but this definitely can let some responsible PEOPLE start the road to freedom.

loss of cultural diversity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2331557)

geez, if you really need wireless that bad, what the hell are you doing living on a reservation? just move to the god-damned city.

and to people who think running a casino on an 802.11 network is a good idea, think about the new meaning this will give to 'war peddlaz' (scalping, arrows sticking out of your chest, you get the idea)

Why aren't there indians on Star Trek? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2331642)

...cause they don't work in the future either!

(the aberration known as 'Voyager' doesn't count. That's how we knew it couldn't really be a part of the real Star Trek universe...the idea! Portraying an indian as having a job...)

Native Americans -- an absurd liberal myth (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2332154)

One of the greatest lies that historians have ever told is that the continent that we now refer to as North America was inhabited by "native peoples" at the time of its discovery by Columbus. This, as true history has shown, is sheer poppycock; it is a nefarious fantasy concocted in the minds of those who wish to control our collective destinies. Not only are there no contemporary documents that support the existence of these fantasy "natives", the people who are responsible for inventing them have never been particularly secretive about their true motives.

It is interesting to note that in the late 1950s, no American (indeed, no person) had ever even heard of these so-called "native Americans." But then, in the 1960s, stories of them suddenly started appearing seemingly from nowhere. Your next-door neighbor started relating stories from his great-grandmother about "Injun attacks." Schoolchildren started to get educated about the different "tribes" and "nations" of these people, and yet not one parent demanded to see evidence of their existence. Our children were taught stories about how the great white pioneers of this nation supposedly plundered these peoples and took their land from them, and our children felt ashamed.

Of course they felt ashamed! That's the whole reason these fantasy "native Americans" exist! They were invented by radical leftist agitators at Berkeley in the early 1960s. The primary purpose that these mythical "Indians" serve is to instill false guilt in white people. They exist to make the Chosen People of this land feel badly about their own history and heritage, and that is a thought crime. Liberalism is about (first and foremost) the hatred of self and love of collective. To that end, this nation's leftists felt it necessary to invent an entire imaginary race of people that were "pillaged" by this continent's Anglo-Saxon discoverers. The goal: to make this nation's guardians hate themselves and their heritage, and be sympathetic to that which is alien and unacceptable.

The truth, of course, is that none of these stories has the least bit of credibility; despite repeated requests from the conservative community, liberals have been unable to produce a single "native American." And so we must file this lie in the same trash dumpster as the (extremely overexaggerated) stories of so-called "slavery" of the 1800s. Patriots must constantly guard their country from its enemies, and we must realize that more today than ever before, its enemies are more likely to attack from within.

Re:Native Americans -- an old timer's perspective (1)

alienmole (15522) | about 13 years ago | (#2333534)

Listen, sonny, my name is Elijah Peckinpah, and I'm 116 years old this year. Born in 1885, I came to South Dakota on a wagon train when I was just a tot. We saw injuns alright. They would stalk the train, nights, we could hear their horses whinnying in the distance, and now and then, we'd see the whites of their eyes gleaming in the inky darkness. Made us powerful nervous, let me tell you.

It was early one morning, my mammy had just woken me, and the sun was shining into the back of the wagon, when we heard the whooping. I'll never forget that sound as long as I live. They came down on us like God's own vengeance, slashing with their machetes and raining burning arrows on our wagons. The camp was in chaos, half-dressed folk running every which way, guns firing, wagons burning. My mammy grabbed me and in all the chaos, ran free of the camp, and hid in a gully. When she came out, everyone was dead. We holed up in a nearby cave - more like a crack in the rocks - and when the sheriff's posse rode in from the next town, we was rescued.

'Course, that was a long time ago. Nowadays, I mostly sit around, trolling on /. and writing perl code. When I look back now from this high hill of my old age, I can still see the butchered women and children lying heaped and scattered all along the crooked gulch as plain as when I saw them with eyes still young. When I get bored, I go down to the injun casino near here - I figure one of these days, I'll win big on the slots, and that'll show those redskinned sons of jackals!!

So don't you be tellin me there ain't no injuns. I seen em, alright, I seen em...

Ah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2332591)

Many moons ago, paleface bringum think boxes and firewater. Few moons ago, paleface bringum invisible strings for think boxes. Me outum job, no needum smoke signal when think boxes running at 45 megumbits second. Me openum casino now.

Rural networking (2)

Animats (122034) | about 13 years ago | (#2333486)

The great thing about rural networking is that RF spectrum is easily available. You can run megabits for miles without much interference. It definitely beats putting up hundreds of telephone poles per subscriber, which you see in some rural areas.

i crave attention (-1)

count_sporkula (446625) | about 13 years ago | (#2340091)

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