The Euro 1162
Dizer writes: "Today sees the historic introduction of the new European Currency (Euro) into European hands. The Eurozone market, with a population
of 300 million people, will be cashing in their Punts, Francs and Deutschmarks in favour of the new common Euro currency. This is the biggest currency transition in history, vive l'Europe! See stories on
ireland.com or the BBC."
Simple question.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Simple question.. (Score:2)
Also, there's a lot of political resistence to Europeanization in the UK. Many there seem to still think of the Continent as chaotic, unreliable, and irrational. There is an ongoing political pressure to slow down the UK's entry into the EU.
Ireland, on the other hand, has done extraordinarily well with European integration, and the Irish pound has been replaced by the Euro.
Re:Simple question.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Simple question.. (Score:2)
Re:Simple question.. (Score:4, Funny)
Also one of the most powerful countries in the EU is Germany. British people don't trust germans - even the under 30's who you wouldn't think would bother about a war fought 60 years ago have this inherited distrust from their parents and grandparents.
And, well, *everybody* hates the French
Personally I can't see it happening in my lifetime. Heck it took us 200 years to decimalize...
Re:Simple question.. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Simple question.. (Score:2, Insightful)
The UK government's policy right now is that we should join the Eurozone "when the time is right" and "when certain conditions are met". The media are now bored with asking what the conditions are, because Blair refuses to state the conditions, just in case we happen to meet them, and then he'd have to make a decision.
Personally, I think Blair will wait about 6 months so that we can see that the Euro hasn't blown up in French and German faces, and then he'll set a date for the referendum.
Current opinion polls suggest us Brits don't want to adopt the Euro. However, I'd guess that 90% of the public are clueless about the implications, and all they see are rabid tabloid headlines that make it look more like a Martian invasion than a currency change.
The primary objection from those in the know is that losing the pound means losing control over setting interest rates. The primary objection from those without a clue is the change from pounds and pence to using Monopoly money.
Let them suffer ... (Score:2, Insightful)
I am german and I lived in London for some time - I am always surprised how much propaganda wars are fought around anything european/EU.
The normal Brit would gain a lot and pay less, if those high prices would come down a bit.
For example: cost of living (food, electricity) - even buying a simple CD (are Madonna CD is a Madonna CD no matter where you buy it) are extremly overpriced compared to the continent.
But I guess the british like it exclusiv?!
Xenophobia and pig headedness ? (Score:4, Insightful)
But IMO as a Brit the real reason is that we hate the fact that someone else came up with a better idea. Personally I can't wait to use the Euro in the UK as then it will make getting a mortgage or a loan from A.N. Other country much easier and I can pick the rates in a much more competative way.
The next few years should be great for the UK as we aren't going into recession (touch wood) so we'll hopefully steal a march. We could steal a much bigger march as the strongest fish in the Euro.
Re:Xenophobia and pig headedness ? (Score:2, Interesting)
So maybe this with the Brits sitting it out may be a funny thing. But eventually things will be different. Until then the EU would do well to listen more often to the Brits...
Re:Xenophobia and pig headedness ? (Score:4, Funny)
Well if the EU were a vehicle and the individual members in the car we'd have the following:
1) Germans steering the vehicle saying "We are Germans our cars are meant for high speed and we can handle the curves. It vill work alvays."
2) Italians stepping on the gas peddle saying "Speed is in our blood, faster is better"
3) French every now and then stepping on the clutch in full speed saying "Philosphically we are the cultural backbone of the union and hence stepping on the clutch makes it possible to assess whether or not the car is driving in the right direction on the correct road in the proper weather conditions that are best for fostering a cooperative system of interacting people at a higher plane of conditioning" (if you understand that you must be French
5) The Finn would twiddle with the onboard GPS system equipped with GPRS, RDS, CD, MP3 and proudly say "Hey guys no idea where we are, but guess what I just sent an SMS to my buddy in Sweden stating we are somewhere in Europe"
6) The Greek would be relegated to the trunk of the car and while the car is parked will have changed summer tires to winter tires, filled the gas tank, and checked the oil. Afterwards the rest of the troup asks why the Greek did not refill the windshield wiper fluid and moan at how critical it was that they have a filled windshield wiper fluid tank.
7) The Irish will be neatly dressed and organized and ready to rock and roll. But then moan out load that the Dutch is smoking pot beside him.
8) And finally the Brit seeing this mess of people decides to join the bunch "because it seems like the right thing to do and we would not want to stand out of the crowd". But realizing the mess takes control of the key turns off the car "yelling there is a bloody curve that cannot be handled at 300 KPH" and yet everybody looks blankly at the Brit as if the Brit came from another planet...
Sorry for not including the others, but I ran out of time...
Re:Simple question.. (Score:5, Informative)
Because of the internal divisions in the Conservative (Tory) party.
The history is that the Major government took over from Thatcher after she had been governing the country for 11 years and had become amazingly unpopular. The economy was in a mess and headed for a recession, people were fed up with crackpot schemes such as the poll tax, unemployment was high and the public services were collapsing. In many ways the 1992 election was similar to the 2000 US election, the right won an election that on all political calculations they should have lost. But they did so on a minority of the vote and with a very small majority in the Commons.
One of the reasons Thatcher had become unpopular in the party was that she had become anti-European and had refused to countenance going into the then ERM, a currency board that predated the Euro. When Major as Chancellor finally persuaded Thatcher to let him take the country in the pound was unrealistically high. This then led in part to the economic crisis that would peak a few years later in 1993. a bunch of speculators led by Goerge Sorros realised that HMG could not sustain the pound at its then level in the ERM, it was simply unsustainable. But Major and co refused to countenance a devaluation. Finaly the markets won and the pound fell out of the ERM. This had the immediate effect of ending the recession caused by an over-valued pound. The cost however was the Major government's credibility since they had spent $20 billion trying to sustain the higher level - equivalent to the cost of running the air force at the time.
The longer term effect was that a sizable faction in the Tory party began to use anti-Europeanism as a means to snipe at Major. A hard core of about a dozen rebels lost the party whip, but they had a large number of sympathisers. More importantly they were better organized in the constituency parties which are typically racist and reactionary.
In the 1997 election the Tory party was virtually anahilated, loosing 200 seats. That is their worst performance since universal suffrage. As always in the UK the MPs to loose their seats were the ones in the most marginal constituencies. These were also by and large the ones that were industrial rather than agricultural and as a result the ones most likely to have Europhile MPs.
By 1997 there was no prospect of the UK entering the Euro in the first wave even thought the pragmatic Blair administration supported the idea. That meant that there was no prospect of entering in that parliament. By now the Tory party was virulently opposed to the Euro and had made it practically their only campaign issue. If there was a referendum and the Tory party was to win a No vote it could easily allow the Tories to recover their lost momentum, possibly winning the next election. The political cost of negotiating to enter the Euro was consequently high and the benefit negligible since it could not be completed in one parliament.
The political calculation at this point is rather different. It now makes little difference whether the UK joins in 2003 or 2008, having missed the opportunity to set the ground rules the UK might as well watch what happens. The current Euro exchange rate is absurdly low and so a more equitable exchange rate to the pound and dollar is likely to sort itself out. It is likely that HMG will choose that moment to declare some form of currency peg. Over time the peg will become more permanent leading eventually to the UK entering the Euro.
The political advantage to doing so early remains low, the cost high. This is particularly so since 60% of the UK media market is controlled by Rupert Murdoch, an Austrailian with no particular concern for the UK or its inhabitants but a considerable and justified fear of the European Union curtailing his ambitions through anti-monopoly (trust) regulation.
Re:Simple question.. (Score:3, Insightful)
London is the number one financial place in Europe, it would have been pretty hard for another country to get this institution, if Britain had joined right away.
Re:Simple question.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Actually the election was far more finely balanced. The Tories benefitted from an unexpectedly high turnout which was largely due to the weather, it was the first fine day of spring. The margin was very narrow, less than 2000 votes in 20 seats. In fact had the 50 seats with the smallest majorities gone 50:50 to Tory/Labour then Labour would have won narrowly.
The voter perception of Labour policy was largely fuelled by the Murdoch press. What Major offered was a Conservative government minus Thatcher. The mistake the Labour party had made was that by daemonising Thatcher they allowed the Tories to get re-elected simply by putting a new face at the helm. The Labour policy changes from 1992 through 1997 were of presentaion, not substance.
The major change was not in the Labour party but in the Conservatives. Racked with open internal warfare few of the cabinet made any attempt to conceal their contempt for their party leader. The numerous corruption scandals, starting with sex and ending with peculation and perjury erased any remaining vesigest of respect for the party.
The main similarity between 1992 and 2000 is the extent to which a viciously partisan press tipped the balance in favour of the right. Bush was consistently praised despite his obvious deficiencies while every opportunity was taken to attack Gore. So Bush got a bye for lying about driving while drunk while Gore was called a liar for mistakenly saying he visited Texas with the head of FEMA when it was the deputy head, he having visited 19 other states with the head one might think it an innocent mistake. The list goes on.
The relevance to the Euro is that but for the campaign against it in the Murdoch press it is unlikely that UK opposition would be anything like as great.
We will see if the end result is the same, before 9/11 that looked very likely. The ecconomy was in recession, the administration had lost control of the Senate due to crass political judgement, the California energy crisis caused by blatant market manipulation by Bush's texas cronies at Enron. Of course the hil Bush now needs to climb is that the press loves nothing better than making history repeat. So just as the Clinton years were spent trying to repeat Watergate, the press will now be trying to tie Bush II to the script of Bush I.
Interesting to note... (Score:2, Funny)
...is that there are already reports of homeless people saying, "Willing to spare a Euro?"
Picture of bills with US bill (Score:5, Interesting)
Picture of a 5 Euro bill, 10 Euro bill, 1 Euro coin [fhsu.edu]
They are pretty cool looking.
Re:Picture of bills with US bill (Score:2)
Actually those look really cool.. I wonder why the US keeps this drab, slashdot theme with the currency.. I know! lets convert to the Euro too!
I wish I understood the principles of economics.. I didn't have any classes in school about it (That i was awake for, long story).. I'm sure there is one or fifty
The US could transition over to the Euro overnight! It would have NO impact on our economy, and would make the world a better place, fostering peace between nations.. and bill gates would have another economy to help!
okay. that should do it.
:)
Re:Picture of bills with US bill (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, there are certain advantages to having your own currency. The big thing is that interest rates, and the exchange rates are adjusted to your economy, not somebody elses.
Witness what's happening in Argentina right now. They pegged their currency to the U.S. dollar - in all practical terms that means they adopted the U.S. dollar. But the U.S. dollar kept gaining value as the American economy grew, so that Argentinian exports became too expensive and the economy suffered. A free-floating Peso would have devalued to keep things in balance.
This probably won't happen in Europe because European countries have been integrating their economies over the last half decade. With common regulations, and free-flowing goods, the economies should grow (or shrink) together. As long as that's true things should work out.
Clarification (Score:3, Insightful)
Just to clarify the parent poster's point, it is theoretically possible for everyone in a country to reduce all of their salaries and government benefits to compensate for their
decreasing productivity. However, it is generally impractical to get everyone to agree to do this in sync, while it is trivial if not automatic if that country has a separate currency.
The situation in Argentina is a bit different, because part of the problem is that the government claimed to back its currency with more US dollars than they actually currently have.
Advantages of a single currency (or not!) (Score:4, Informative)
(1) Argentina's budget deficit
(2) its large (private) US dollar borrowings, and
(3) modest US$ export earnings
In this situation, Argentina becomes a sitting duck for currency speculators. Irrespective of the 'true' value of the peso, it is near impossible to maintain the value of the currency. Add in a crazy political situation (most of the public sector deficit in Argentina is from *local* government - where politicans are from different political parties to central government, and hence much to gain from embarassing the central government...). Result, chaos. And that's even before a long running recession, supply-side inefficencies, etc.
Back to Europe.
There is an economics theory called 'optimal currency zones' which makes much the same case you do: how can the central bank pursue a coherent monetary (ie interest rate) policy, when the different countries that make up Europe have such different economies?
We don't know.
Only experience will tell. But one thing seems forgotten: the US has widely differing economic areas. How closely correlated are tobacco farming in Virginia, car manufacturing in Detroit, optical networking in San Francisco and investment banking in Wall Street? When car making is suffering from Japanese competition, it might seem to make sense to devalue the Detroit dollar - yet no-one has ever suggested breaking the US into regional currencies.
And the advantages of a single currency are huge: greater price transparency for consumers, lower inflation from greater competition, lower long-term interest rates, etc.
Most importantly of all: work or not, <b>everyone</b> should hope the Euro is a success. Neither the US, the UK, nor Asia will benefit from an economically weak Europe.
And I'm really looking forward to getting hold of my first Euro notes and coins when I go to France on Friday!
Re:Advantages of a single currency (or not!) (Score:3, Interesting)
And Yes, that does mean 'asymetrical shocks' can be more easily absorbed than in Europe.
But that does not mean an Indiana steelworker can easily become a networking expert. (Or, in the current environment, the opposite.)
Even inside countries, people are surprisingly unlikely to move. How else can you explain the persistently high unemployment rates in some parts of the US? The statistics tell a story: very few people change 'region' in the US during their lifetime. And an even smaller proportion change for economic, as opposed to life-style, family or educational reasons.
And at the 'high end' of the emplyment spectrum - by which I mean skilled professionals - locational mobility is increasingly becoming the rule rather than the exception. Find the major investment bank in London where 'brits' make up the majority of senior positions.
I am uncovinced by cultural arguments: I know many Scottish nationalists working in London; many opposed to further European integration find themselves working on computing contracts in Brussels, Frankfurt or Paris.
I could well be wrong, but the evidence does not yet point clearly to either (a) labour mobility being *that* important or (b) people being *much* more unwilling to move - at least temptoraily - around Europe than around the US.
Re:Advantages of a single currency (or not!) (Score:3, Interesting)
The difference is that European nations have existed for a long time, in some form or other. Whereas the states of the USA are mainly creations for their own sake. Most of the borders between US states are simply lines drawn on a map with no reference to geographical features in the area. Very few of the US states have ever been nation states.
I'm not convinced about the common language and culture. In the West and South West of the US the echo of the Hispanic empire is quite apparent. Also there are plenty of distinct ethnic groups, who are often refered to as X-Americans where X is some other part of the world. However there is still the lack of identity with specific US states.
Re:Advantages of a single currency (or not!) (Score:3, Informative)
The argument as I see it is very much unresolved: do lower transaction costs and better transparency outweigh greater inflexibility?
And for all the words written on Slashdot, we just don't know.
As a Brit, I must admit I would not join the Euro in the first wave. But, that does not mean it cannot or will not work. It is 'a grand experiment'.
I look forward to reading the reviews of the Euro one year in!
Re:Picture of bills with US bill (Score:3, Interesting)
They pegged their currency to the U.S. dollar - in all practical terms that means they adopted the U.S. dollar. But the U.S. dollar kept gaining value as the American economy grew, so that Argentinian exports became too expensive and the economy suffered.
Ecuador adopted the U.S. dollar as its national currency in March, 2000, and now, according to the Economist [economist.com], "Ecuador is now Latin America's fastest-growing economy, its GDP set to expand by over 5% this year. Much of the social unrest of recent years has died down."
When a country can't control its own monetary policy, it is more likely a symptom of a serious problem, not a cause.
Re:Picture of bills with US bill (Score:5, Insightful)
Dunno. Time will tell I guess. But I don't see why the differences between European states should be greater than the differences between (for example) American states. Labour, goods, and capital move freely, so when one part of the Eurozone becomes undervalued investors should come in and snap up the bargains.
Re:Picture of bills with US bill (Score:4, Interesting)
I really, really hope for you that your country never switches currencies. These past 2 years, and especially the last couple of months have been hell, putting a lot of effort in adapting some real old software packages to a different currency, converting millions of records to the new values, dealing with rounding errors, and trying to find out where critical errors may come up.
The economy will not be affected very much imho, but for us IT people it has not been fun.
btw, you were right. That did it indeed
Re:Picture of bills with US bill (Score:4, Funny)
OTOH, I prefer knowing that my european "disney dollars" and British pounds have substantial anti-counterfeiting measures which mean that although they may look insubstantial, they're actually more likely to be real money than a random US dollar bill... :-P
--
Complete image collection at official Euro site (Score:3, Informative)
Here is another official site [eu.int] with plenty of info and images.
Re:Picture of bills with US bill (Score:2)
Which, if you have a sense of humor like mine, makes it great, great fun to use them to pay for things when the cashier is too young to know they exist, or older and obviously uneducated.
~Philly
conversion (Score:2, Redundant)
Are we becoming like star trek? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think in the next 20 years as trade zones evolve we will see the union of trade zones until there is true free world trade. Then in our lifetimes we may see the start of a common world government.
Re: (Score:2)
No, more like the Soviet Union (Score:2)
The EU on the other hand is governed by the same socialist leftovers who fled from elected politics in member nations years ago.
Re:No, more like the Soviet Union (Score:3, Informative)
Allow me to direct you to a portion of Article VI [cornell.edu] of the Constitution:Please note where the Constitution is specifically the supreme law of the land, as well as the clause: anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding. It's a longstanding priciple of the US Goverment that the Federal laws and Courts are supreme to all other laws and Courts in the nation. In fact, the United States fought a war [google.com] over the issue of States rights over Federal rights. This debate goes back to the Articles of Confederation [yale.edu] (and in fact originates well before) and continues to this day over the relative strengths of the State and Federal goverments.
Re:No, more like the Soviet Union (Score:3, Informative)
The constitution does not grant the federal government the right to regulate or ban drug consumption, merely to regulate (or ban) its trade across state lines. If cannibis is grown in california and consumed in california, the federal government has no constitutional right to get involved. The matter is entirely subject to state law, which in California's case makes the medicinal use and consumption legal.
The constitution states that it is the supreme law of the land.
The constitution states that federal laws passwd in accordance to the constitution take precedence over state and local laws.
However, the constitution also states, as noted before, that laws only related to those powers explicitly granted the federal government may be passed. The drug laws, indeed the entire drug war, is unconstitutional. Unfortunately they are also popular. So, like the forced expulsion of the Mormons from Illinois for practicing an unpopular religion in the nineteenth century, and like the trail of tears (when the american indians were forced from their home by the executive branch and the president after winning their case before the supreme court) our government is simply doing what it often has in the face of widespread public complacency: ignoring the constitution completely.
The fact that the federal government routinely violates the constitution and tramples state and local rights should not be a surprise to anyone who has been watching the downward spiral of American politics over the last couple of decades. While the blatent contempt shown for the will of the people (the California law was passed as a public referendum) is perhaps surprising, it is IMHO but one of the more obvious signs that our government, particularly at the federal level, is of, by and for the special interests, primarilly those best funded, namely corporate interests, and that the will of the people plays little if any roll whatsoever. And how could it be otherwise, with widespread legalized bribery of congress and only two, equally corrupt, parties to choose from?
Different versions of the Euro... (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, an interesting note, is that the EU states will still need to produce their own stamps but put them in the EURO currency pricing, which will be nice for collectors and more autonomy.
FYI, I was over in Germany for three weeks and spoke to a couple of folks about how they viewed the EURO. Alot of the older folks were worried about how non-assest items will be valued. For example, appraisals. Something that use to be appraised for 5.500 DM, will it be assessed at 2,811 EUROS come a couple months down the road?
Re:Different versions of the Euro... (Score:2)
The euro means the economies of the member states are regulated as a whole, not individually.
I, for one, am thankful I got the opportunity to spend some Pesetas and Escudos, and Punts before the Euro was brought in. The different currencies really were one of the beautiful and wonderful things about travelling through europe.
Now, of course, the euro WILL make travelling easier.
About the coins... (Score:2)
HOWEVER things like the alloy and weight are not really specified. And this is likely to cause a mess with vending machines, scales and counting machines.
Re:Cash movements (Score:5, Interesting)
I can provide some data from a loosely analogous situation in the United States. US bills are printed at 12 locations in the US, and are originally distributed to banks based on which of the 12 districts that bank is located in.
I'm part of a fun project [wheresgeorge.com]that involves tracking the motion of US currency. I live near (60 miles from) San Francisco--here are the locations the bills I've marked come from, and their relative proportion.
San Francisco 776 32.0%
Kansas City 323 13.3%
New York 205 8.5%
Dallas 187 7.7%
Minneapolis 182 7.5%
Chicago 146 6.0%
Atlanta 133 5.5%
St. Louis 129 5.3%
Cleveland 99 4.1%
Boston 97 4.0%
Richmond 82 3.4%
Philadelphia 63 2.6%
Now, while the banks print out different numbers of bills and such, it's pretty clear that the San Francisco printed bills dominate my sample.
This analogy is unlike the situation with Euro coins for at least one reason--the lifetime of bills is much shorter than the lifetime of coins. Bills tend to last a year or two in circulation, coins for a decade or more. So, as time goes on, I'd expect mixing to be a much larger effect for coins in the EU than it is for bills in the US...
the coin route (Score:2, Insightful)
Since 1 euro coins are likely to see more circulation than larger denominations, it makes sense to use coins, because coins will last longer and so have lower replacement costs.
Re:the coin route (Score:2)
To release a $1 coin successfully, all you have to do is... drumrolll please... make coins, and stop making $1 bills. Period. Instant success.
Silver dollar? Golden dollar? What were these? Actually putting $1 worth of gold in the mix for the coin? Or are you referring to something else.
How does devaluing happen now?? (Score:2)
All of these countries have different values to their money; some of them are currently very strong, and others are currently very weak. So what happens to your Euro when you go from say Ireland to Italy? Do they just inflate/deflate the price of goods/services to compensate?
I'm honestly not sure how it will work, since there is no longer a currency exchange between these countries. Is it just me, or does this seem like it's not the brightest idea on the surface??
Re:How does devaluing happen now?? (Score:2)
ostiguy
Re:How does devaluing happen now?? (Score:2)
Good question. Simple answer. (Score:3, Informative)
THe member countries of the Euro have had their currencies locked together for at least a year now (I think more than that, but I don't know for sure). Their values relative to each other, do not flucuate at all. Money markets have been trading the Euro for a long time now; it's only the presence of the physical cash that is changing today.
The whole point is that the member countries move together, not separately. Due to the nature of the Euro, it CANNOT devaluate in one country and not another. As for goods/services, yes, of course... it's still supply/demand.
Withiin the EU, people can travel, work and live in other countries, etc... It's becoming a large customs zone, where once you are in, you are free to move about as you please. You'll notice your first stop in an EU country when going to europe, you will have to clear customs. After that, you are relatively free.. you may have to show a passport, but that's it.
There's a flip side. (Score:2)
Conversley, companies can now open up in other places because they may be able to get cheaper labor. All in all, the freedom of movement and unified currency should help balance things out.
How the coins look (Score:2, Informative)
Euro for Debian (Score:2, Informative)
And the HOWTO is here: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-euro-sup
LaTeX and HTML fonts (Score:2)
The page claims that if you are using LaTeX 2e, \usepackage{textcomp} gets the right character set, and \texteuro gets the symbol. I tried it, and it works.
Now, does anybody know how to get the American symbol for cents?
Issues with the euro in day-to-day life (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, being one of the 300 million affected, I just thought that I could karma whore a little and get an "informative" mod by telling you (the non-european or non-affected-even-if-european people) a few issues that arise in real life with this change :-) Let's hope not to be another of a million messages about this O:-)
There's more, but I don't recall anything specially interesting now, so let's hope that another one with a better english and memory can say something more fulfilling ;-)
Re:Issues with the euro in day-to-day life (Score:5, Informative)
No, no, no. Don't calculate back to pesetas, francs and guilders for the rest of your natural lifes.
Write down twenty things that you often buy: a weeks worth groceries, CDs, DVDs, whatever. Write down a resonable price in your old currency. Convert. Learn and remember the new decent euro price.
Instead of calculating back to guilders whenever I buy a DVD, I will have remembered that ?25 to ?30 is a reasonable price. That is by far the easiest way to get used to the new currency.
Coming from a store owner... (Score:3, Interesting)
- The Euro costs us £0.50 to exchange for every transaction made. That's right, the banks charge us to convert our money back into pounds! They don't charge at the consumer level, just merchant to merchant, so we mandate consumers do this on their own, or pay via another means.
- The new anti-counterfeit measures contained in the Euro. This may seem like a good thing, but the larger Euro demoniations contain coils electromagnetically charged to a certain serial number. This can thus be tracked, and as much as consumers are worried about their privacy, merchants are worried about ours in respect to competitors.
- The attitude here in London is mostly anti-Euro, as Brits object to this new prospect of a continental government. We've been independent for this long, and under no means do we want to be governed by someone higher than the Parliament
- The conversion rates fluctuate constantly. What's to say that one day, we charge 500 for a gold ring, and then going to the bank to exchange it, it's then worth 90% of that? That's lost money to us. We can't afford to be dealing in currency fluctuations. Both the pound and the US Dollar are stable enough to be dealing with, but I won't put my corporation's trust into the Euro.
Businesses like mine are doing the same thing. I can't find a single business here in London Square willing to redeem Euros for face value. So, when you come to London, be sure to bring your plastic, or redeem it for pounds.-snellac
Re:Coming from a store owner... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is such a short sighted view point. Only through cooperation can European countries have a say in world affairs, the UK, a country of about 60 million people, will be ignored in the face of trading blocks of 300 million people and upwards.
Sooner or later, the UK will come crawling into the Euro with its tail between its legs, and feeling rather stupid.
Re:Coming from a store owner... (Score:3, Troll)
Re:Coming from a store owner... (Score:5, Insightful)
It is precisely this attitude that makes me ashamed to be British.
Vive la EU!
Seriously:
There's a widespread assumption in the UK, and most widespread among the Euroskeptics, that we are unequivocally better than everyone else and that their ways of doing things are worse.
I don't buy it. Doing someone else down is the nastiest expression of patriotism, and usually conceals a narrow-minded reluctance to scrutinise one's own actions.
Yes, the banking currency-conversion objection is valid: and so are the issues to do with non-anonymity of large-denomination notes.But the exchange rate doesn't fluctuate wildly -- the Pound is typically locked to within +/- 0.1% of the Euro.
Personally, I'm looking forward to using the same currency whether at home or abroad. And I'm looking forward to the opportunity to vote for tighter integration with the EU.
Re:Coming from a store owner... (Score:3, Interesting)
The only way I can see someone tracking you via a Euro is this: you go to an ATM to withdraw money. The bank knows you and can read the Euro as it is dispensed. You spend the bill. Assuming the merchant deposits all cash to their bank, the bank could resolve the bill from the merchant to the bill dispensed from the ATM assuming it is the same bank or banks share info. This is only likely for large denominations since smaller ones may be tendered as change. Once changed hands, any tracking data is bogus unless the merchant themselves are tracking the euros coming in and going out.
Every US bill has a serial number too, just not magnetically encoded. It would be quite easy to build a box that scans in US bills and reads the serial number. I believe cash is still the best anonymous tender. Magnetic encoding doesn't change anything.
Just food for thought.
-tim
Re:Coming from a store owner... (Score:3, Interesting)
They are not likely to list prices in Euro however, since the SEK<->EUR exchange rate is not fixated and the list prices would have to be changed almost every day, which of course would be impractical. But payment in the converted Euro amount will be entirely OK. A lot of smaller shops are expected to follow this policy, used by the bigger ones, and allow payment in Euro.
Debian Euro HOWTO (Score:2, Informative)
/* FIXME: insert some clever comment about this brilliant HOWTO and mention how useful it is */
Debian Euro HOWTO [debian.org]
Cash machine problems (Score:4, Interesting)
Then I tried the recharging stations for the (chipcard based) debit card called "Chipknip" (similar to Proton in Belgium and Geldkarte in Germany). Two out of three malfunctioning.
Now, these chipcards are not used very much by the general public. But the thing is, banks have promoted it a lot lately, because it would make the transition easier. The banks should have done a better job if they are really serious about this.
Also, I have a device which I can use to recharge my chipcard at home. I connect it to a phone line and then it makes a connection with the bank.
I noticed that from now on I can recharge it with 25 euro as a minimum. Previously the minimum was about 10 euro. I wished they had maintained that minimum amount.
10 baht coins look like 2 Euro (for machines) (Score:2)
It's so odd that they came up with a design of a coin that looks so similar to a foreign coin with so little value compared to the eurocoin.
Anyone's planning a trip to Thailand soon?
Re:10 baht coins look like 2 Euro (for machines) (Score:2, Informative)
The Euro and the Dollar (Score:3, Insightful)
When banknotes where first introduced over 17th to 19th century, they were viewed as certificates that a certain bank (usually a single "central bank" per country), would exchange for something of tangible value (usually an equivalent in coins made of precious metal). After WWII a monetary system was introduced in which the USD was the only bill pegged to gold, and other currencies were floating against it. The emptyness of the Fed's gold reserve and the oil crisis broke that system in the 70s, replaced for the first time by the complete floating of all currencies agains each other, with none pegged to any tangible good, and the IMF playinga pivotal role of watchdog to ensure this balance does not diverge.
But the USD became used so widely in international transactions, that it became the de-facto standard against which the currencies values were measured. This gave a huge technical priviledge to the US : the USD could be ridiculously cheap, as it was in the early 90s (when a USD was worth the equivalent of about 0.80 euros in the european currencies of the time), without making holders of USD poorer, since the price of goods on international markets was labelled in USD, giving the US industry an artificial competitive advantage.
Conversely, the USD could be ridiculously overpriced, such as in the mid 80s when it was 25% more expensive then it is now compared to European currencies, making it easier for the US government to finance a huge deficit, while still being able to sustain an abysmal deficit in the balance of payments (since creditor institutions used USD as their reserve currency)
The main economic sense behind the euro is to take away part of that privilege from the US, by making Europe a zone where internal business could be made without any influence of the USD's values. Actual euro banknotes allows banks around the world to actually stash the currency, and makes the integration irreversible, and hence more reliable.
So the US has been considerably opposed to Europe monetary integration, and have worked hard, with their British sidekicks, to make it not happen. Actually the changeover might be seen as the biggest thing that has went in the face of US national interest in the last 30 years, maybe since the end of WWII.
Euro symbol in HTML (Score:5, Informative)
Appreciate, inflate, depreciate... (Score:5, Insightful)
But the bigger threat is inflation. It's simple and happens anytime there are changes to standard pricing schemes, be that a GST/VAT, exchange rate, whatever.
- Manufacturers don't want to receive less than what they've previously been getting. So they round up.
- Distributors don't want to receive less than what they've previously been getting. So they round up.
- Retailers don't want receive less than what they've previously been getting. So they round up.
It all gets passed on to the consumer (me). Now I need more money to pay for this, so I ask for a raise....That's the classic price/wages spiral.Economics 101 says that inflation is inversely related to the exchange rate. So that means if inflation goes up, then the exchange rate will go down.
As Germany (the driver of EU commerce), has just officially gone into recession, this inflation pressure is going to be a serious confidence issue in the Euro. As the currency depreciates, there will be the "I told you so" bleating...
Britain, by not taking part of the Euro, is best placed to benefit in the short/medium term. Short term means less than 2 years. Medium term means 2-5 years in financial circles - IT has different time lines.
The only thing that concerns me is the effect this has on the German economy. If there is serious inflation over short/medium term, this could all come undone. If there's not, and the German economy kicks in during this period, then the Euro will take off.
Notes from Frankfurt (Score:5, Informative)
The exchanges and markets have been working in Euros for the last year. This makes a unified market within the Euro-zone countries. However, until we had a real currency, there was a crisis of confidence.
I duely went out and got my 20DM worth of Euro coins in December. This was part of the so-called familiarity and to try to front-load the system to help with the problem of small change.
A couple of days ago, I had a guy at a bookshop at Frankfurt airport try to pass me off with two 10 year old banknotes of a withdrawn design. I objected because the notes could only be changed at a bank, and he gave me modern notes. The old bank notes were in very good condition and probably genuine, but I still refused.
Well I was out last night, spending Deutschmarks in a pub all night. Did I rush out to get my Euros, no as I anticipated a queue at the cash-points. I stayed away from the ECB because I didn't like the crush.
In the morning, I noted that the region transport company, the RMV [www.rmv.de] seemed to have a lot of ticket machines out of order. However, I was able to get money from an ATM w/o queueing and without problem.
We are relatively lucky in that the exchange rate is set close enough to 2 at 1.95583. However, the retailers have been given a little too much leeway in setting their prices, so there is a lot of retail price inflation (already apparent during December). In France, they introduced a price freeze for three months to prevent this.
In real terms, it will probably start being useful on my next ski-trip. No more currencies to worry about apart from the Swiss Franc, and already, some resorts in Switzerland are saying that they will accept the Euro. Many have been taking Deutschmarks and French Franks already for things like lift-passes.
I expect that there may be some problems tomorrow when the first real business day for the shops starts, probably with availability of change as the public have practically none. Shops should give change in Euros, even if you spend DM.
Ireland *has* changed to the Euro (Score:2)
Ireland *has* changed over to the Euro.
Re:Ireland *has* changed to the Euro (Score:2)
Wow, you could get so very very beaten up for saying that. It would be like saying "Texas is really just part of New York, and tends to follow their policies." Not only wrong, but it would piss off both a lot of New Yorkers and even more Texans.
Re:Ireland *has* changed to the Euro (Score:5, Informative)
Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom. It's straightforward:
Ireland is a nation. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a nation. This was formed for seperate nations, principalities, and provinces - England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. Most of Ireland left, leaving Northern Ireland. Meanwhile Great Britain is an island, which contains most of, but not all, of Scotland, England and Wales. Ireland is also an island, but doesn't only contain Ireland. The British Isles is an archipeligo, which contains Great Britain and all the smaller islands that go to make up the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and Ireland, and the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man is not part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but is a dependancy. The Isle of Man is in the Irish Sea. The Channel Islands are not part of the British Isles, but are dependancies like the Isle of Man.
Re:Ireland *has* changed to the Euro (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Ireland *is* part of the Euro-Zone ! (Score:2, Informative)
Ahem, Ireland is part of the Euro Zone...
The UK was EuroSceptic and opted out. But the attitude seems to be changing...
The countries partaking in the Euro:
The official (non-responding) Euro website: http://www.euro.ecb.int/ [ecb.int]
Norway? Huh? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Ireland *is* part of the Euro-Zone ! (Score:2)
sheesh!
ostiguy
Re:Ireland *is* part of the Euro-Zone ! (Score:2)
Re:So the storys... (Score:2)
Austria, Belgium, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal and Spain.
Also, some small states like San Marino, Monaco, the Vatican etc. will be using the euro, and Cuba (the government at least). Major chains in the UK will also accept the euro.
Re:So what ASCII value will the Euro be? (Score:4, Informative)
It's actually... (Score:2)
Re:Will slashdot change? (Score:5, Funny)
We can... (Score:2)
Re:We can... (Score:2)
See, just because you *legally* can, doesn't mean that there aren't significant cultural barriers impeding the free flow of labor across borders. The US, as a integrated currency zone for comparative purposes, have far fewer limitations.
ostiguy
Re:We can... (Score:2)
And with NAFTA, a lot of high-tech industries suddenly moved south of the U.S.-Mexico border to take advantage of cheaper labor?
There are other factors to consider when you talk about people moving for jobs.
In addition, we have the same problems in the U.S. Coming from the South (U.S.), for example, I find that a lot of people have an aversion to moving "up East" (Northeast/New England) or "out West" (California, etc.) because of culture.
Re:One simple reason why it won't work: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:One simple reason why it won't work: (Score:4, Insightful)
uh. labor CAN move freely within EU. try learning facts of the world outside USA before bashing. could be enlightening exprience.
Re:One simple reason why it won't work: (Score:5, Insightful)
The United States does have true labor mobility. Moving from one section of the US to another for economic advantage is not only easy, it is very common. In addition to the lack of legal barriers, there are no language barriers and few cultural ones.
Are you asserting that the average Parisian, having just been layed off, could and would chase jobs in Berlin? The average Detroiter could and would do so in Dallas. The Parisian is prevented from doing this, but the barrier is de facto rather than de jure as you seem to assume. From a macroeconomic perspective, it amounts to the same thing: the workers do not, in fact, move.
Re:One simple reason why it won't work: (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the advantages that Europe has is that language and culture maintain national entities in such a way as to resist the "winner take all" scenario, in which all the educated professionals move to a tiny handful of economic supercenters. Economic growth can be distributed geographically more in Europe, but it has nothing to do with any restrictions on travel.
One of the ironies of economic popular wisdom in the 90's is apparent by the fact that Brazil, with its protectionist policies, is doing reasonably well, while Argentina, which did almost everything the IMF and the US banking establishment told it to it, is about to go toes-up. The Argentine disaster could spell the end of WTO-styled globalism far more than the protests of Seattle etc. ever could
Re:One simple reason why it won't work: (Score:2)
Well, in Europe the French also speak German, and the Germans speak French. And most speak English as well.
Still, I do imagine there is a certain economic cost to supporting and using several different languages.
Re:One simple reason why it won't work: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Scanning this tread also reveals a mind-numbing amount of European prejudice and ignorance about America, presumably from Europeans. Not only do Europeans seem to have these xenophobic and parochial attitudes, but they also seem to feel compelled to display them at every opportunity, furthering the impression that they are both ignorant and ill-mannered.
It's sad, really that attitudes of Europeans prevalent since the discovery of America towards the "colonies" still persist some 500 years later.
Re:Congrats to the Brits (Score:2)
Re:Congrats to the Brits (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Congrats to the Brits (Score:3, Funny)
eg, a train ticket for a 100 mile journey in India is a lot cheaper than in the UK, but it is a very different experience. In India, the train may be crowded and unreliable while in England, oh, wait, nevermind....
Re:Congrats to the Brits (Score:2)
Hmm...you think that has something to do with the fact that the prices for the Euro in the currencies of participating countries were set three years ago? It's easy for a currency to be stable if it's not allowed to fluctuate.
Re:Congrats to the Brits (Score:2)
All that's happening now is that everyone will actually have Euro cash, instead of having to exchange money. Banks, it's not a problem; they've been using Euro internally for years.
This should not affect the value of the euro one way or the other.
Re:Congrats to the Brits (Score:3, Insightful)
Really? Name a major manufacturer of computing equipment that in the EU that is not a foreign conglomerate.
Get used to paying more for the products you really want.
Re:The Euro is here, i can feel it in my wallet. (Score:2)
The cash in NL is definately the coolest I've seen anywhere. No politicians on it, cool abstract artwork, and just plain nice looking notes. Some of the coins lack... but I got a kick out of the 2.5fl coin
And I shudder to think of price in Amsterdam going up another %15, it's expensive enough already.
Re:Euro symbol support in Linux? - See HOWTO (Score:2, Informative)
Google [google.com].
Re:Euro symbol support in Linux? (Score:2)
Testing the euro symbol found in KCharselect (Table 32)...
Re:Ahhh...a one Euro coin, not a dollar... (Score:2)
Well, guess what? I don't go to the post office. Ever. I use the USPS for paying bills, and that's about it. I rarely have to buy stamps, since I only use a couple every month. When I do buy stamps, I buy them at the grocery store. (!)
Linking the distribution of a new currency to postage stamp vending machines is braindead, but it seems to effectively be the means the government has chosen.
Stamp some more of the damned things and send them to my bank instead of bills!
Re:Ahhh...a one Euro coin, not a dollar... (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe if the Treasury had a 98 sale, they'd get out there.
Re:The real reason the Euro is BAD NEWS (Score:5, Insightful)
This is not fair or right.
The UK is the most powerful economy in Europe, and its government is clearly the best at managing an economy. If anyone should be running the Euro, fixing the interest rates and running the inevitable European tax system, its the Bank of England, and NOT the Bundesbank.
Either way, whoever is running the Euro, giving control of your currency to another nation is suicide.
Can you imagine the US Treasury accepting the control of the Dollar and the US economy from Canada or Mexico?
That is precisely what is happening in Europe. This is totally wrong, and everyone here is being brainwashed into accepting the Euro because it is superficially convenient.
First of all, stating that the UK is the most powerfull economy of europe is bullshit. Expressed in growth, Ireland wins. If you consider the value of the pound to be the measuring tool, then might I remind you that a strong currency makes export (selling, profits) harder. Most of the european countries are exporting much more than they are importing. The reunion of germany has been payed with the germans giving up their strong DM. This was negotiated by Jacques Delors, Mitterand and Kohl. So give the germans credit where due, they are pulling something off that Europe in itself has yet to make true, political and total unification. It takes time, it hurts, and it is certainly not easy. But in the end it makes us all stronger and brings more stability in our fortress than ever before. I think it's simply the right way to tackle the bigger battle at stake here: The economic wars with the US and Asia.
By the way, the euro is not 'fixed with the germans' as you said. I consider that a typical narrow visioned patriotic view on the matter, but not a clear thinking one. The euro is controlled by the european central bank, which is headed by dutchman Wim Dhuisenberg. Germany is economically still the driving force behind it, because they are simply plain good efficient commonsense hardworking people. That is not to say other states don't work as hard, they simply are not as efficient (and by culture, they usually didn't need to be)
I'm sure this sounds horrendous, but London shopping malls say they ARE accepting and returning euro currency. That's right. We will not need to change currencies and pay taxes whilst doing so in your country, whch is of course a shopping benefit and a way to make sure tourists don't go to Paris instead because of the money thing. People can travel and shop with on single currency. It will make trading goods fairer, and will in the long run slowly integrate a respect for foreign cultures and standards through the pricing of the same goods in different parts of europe. Like Prodi said, we carry Europe in our pockets now, it's not just a far from our beds thing. I'm proud of it, and as far as I am concerned there cannot be enough Europe!
Stating that Brittain needs control of the currency is a laugh, you don't even want to be part of it, but oh look, now that we've got it you want to control it ? That sounds like a envious kid in pre-school. We need Brittain in the system, because yes we want your strong country to support the currency, talking on the same level that every other nation does, and we're sure that in the long term the UK will come to acknowledge the benefit of the Euro. It's not about control, it's about Unification. The UK is no longer an island, but it takes some time for people to see that, along with Denmark and Noorwegen.
- Positive thinking Belgian.
Re:The Euro is fourth-dimensionally foolish (Score:5, Informative)
Economic integration is a strong factor in preventing wars, not starting them. Why invade another country when you can get its riches merely by trading? After WW2, the elite of the world got together and said "Never again!", and globalism was born.
With 300-million people on board, the EU will be able to go toe-to-toe with the US economy. As a US citizen, you will be mildly effected by this, as the world outside the US has become a little more competitive, and you, reciprocally, a little less so.
In response, the US has joined free-trade zone of the Organization of American States. This zone has a greater population than the (present) euro-zone, though, besides Canada with a relatively small population, the OAS includes mostly third-world and emerging nations with massive debts.
The long-term prospects for the EU are excellent.