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582 comments

Repent! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148182)

The Hurd is finished?

The end must surely be nigh!

Re:Repent! (-1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148189)

Huge
Unclean
Rectal
Dilator

Re:Repent! (2, Interesting)

NTSwerver (92128) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148214)

`Hurd' stands for `Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons'. And, then, `Hird' stands for `Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth'. We have here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of mutually recursive acronyms.

April 9th, 2002 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148219)

The end is nigh!

Re:Repent! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148206)

The end is nigh!

First the fall of the wall (9/11/1989), then the fall of the towers (9/11/2001), then the fall of the mighty Andersen who stumbled over Enron, and finally the release of the Hurd! My God, the end is near!

Re:Repent! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148343)

Berlin Wall fell 11/11/1989.

Re:Repent! (-1)

neal n bob (531011) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148385)

hahaha - tools. RMS takes it in the rear too often - he'll never release the Turd if he keeps letting people push in his stool. Hurd may be the single greatest piece of vaporware ever.

Re:Repent! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148414)

Markus Brinkmann did all the hard work. For years. RMS did nothing. RMS get the press. I hate RMS. I hate GNU. Sometimes I hate Open Source.

Re:Repent! (5, Funny)

hawk (1151) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148437)

Yes, indeed. Commercially feasible fusion will also be released this year, and Apple will finally release OS X, and Windows will work, really, this time, and . . . And lets not forget the new Amiga that dual boots into BeOS . . .


:)


hawk

cheers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148183)

pistr frots

Hurd-GNU/Linux (5, Funny)

Anders (395) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148193)

I am looking forward to running a Hurd system. "Hurd" is much easier to pronounce than "GhNU slash Linux" is. I think that Torvalds guy should give more consideration to how he names his creations, like the GNU guys do.

Oh, wait.

+1 Funny on the MQR standard (1)

MarkusQ (450076) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148255)


I think that Torvalds guy should give more consideration to how he names his creations, like the GNU guys do.

*laugh* I can see three ways this statement could be taken, all of them collectively funny.

What I don't see is why anyone would mod it "flamebait"...

-- MarkusQ

Re:Hurd-GNU/Linux (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148305)

That's GNU/Hurd.

- RMS

Re:Hurd-GNU/Linux (4, Insightful)

Kilobug (213978) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148327)

Pay attention to vocabulary:

"The Hurd" (with the article) or "the GNU Hurd" is the set of servers that run on the top of a micro-kernel (GNU Mach for now, OSKit Mach soon, maybe L4 latter). The pair: The Hurd + -kernel can be used as a remplacement of the Linux kernl

GNU is the full operating system created by the GNU project. It contains The Hurd and many other things. It can be called GNU/Hurd to avoid confusions.

The Hurd is not a system, it's not a micro-kernel, it's not a kernel, it's a set of servers that run on top of a -kernel to replace a standard kernel.

Re:Hurd-GNU/Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148368)

Hey kilobug, you ain't gonna start talking on slashdot ! COME BACK TO THE TRIBUNE OR THE GOTH WILL FIND YOU !

Le Comte EBON

Re:Hurd-GNU/Linux (0, Offtopic)

gle (215268) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148400)

Everybody come back to the free tribune.

Fucking Mussels !

Ads (0, Offtopic)

sql*kitten (1359) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148198)

Has anyone else noticed those huge ads that seem to be randomly appearing in the middle of articles? I click reload and it disappears. Not that I've got anything against HP e-business infrastucture, but that's what banners are for.

Anyway, back on topic. RMS has been saying Hurd could be loosed every year since sliced bread was invented (which was 1984). But seriously, what does Hurd do that Mach doesn't? Or is this just RMS repeating the Symbolics episode?

Re:Ads (0, Offtopic)

MrFredBloggs (529276) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148209)

"Has anyone else noticed those huge ads that seem to be randomly appearing in the middle of articles?"

No, but i use JunkBusters. I sometimes see an empty square - thats about it.

Re:Ads (0, Offtopic)

bleckywelcky (518520) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148314)


Yes, they are called ads. It's called "Slashdot costs a couple million to run per year" - "Not a whole lot of people donate money to Slashdot" - "Slashdot needs to put these ads up in order to survive" - "If you enjoy reading slashdot at all, just let the fsking ads load and don't look at em, this way you'll be able to read Slashdot a year from now".

You guys who complain about these ads all the time are fscking morons. It's just one little ad on the page that doesn't block your view of anything. The only time I've actually even looked at the ad was when it originally was put in place. I noticed it, said "Hey, theres an ad, interesting. The Slashdot people and support must be starting to feel the pressure of running a website that serves up several million hits a day. I think'll I'll let the ad load so that they can bring in some revenue, and I can keep reading Slashdot!" Now, I just scroll right into the comments and haven't even really noticed the ad since.

Pull the rods out of your asses, realize that everything in life is not free, that people need to bring in money to survive, and just let the fscking ads load. It won't hurt you unless you pay for bandwidth by the byte - and it'll help out Slashdot, you know, that place that you've downloaded thousands upon thousands of pages of articles, comments, and discussions from? For free.

Geez.

Actually (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148334)

You guys who complain about these ads all the time are fscking morons.

People who use euphemized-explitives are morons.

Re:Ads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148224)

Ironically enough, I saw an advertisement for Microsoft.NET earlier today.

Re:Ads (0, Redundant)

xtermz (234073) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148241)

have you been in a cave for the last 3 weeks? They've been talking about putting ad's in forever... what do you think the whole subscription thing is about?

/me throws sql*kitten a clue

Re:Ads (3, Informative)

karmawarrior (311177) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148278)

What does the Hurd do that Mach doesn't? Well, erm, what does RedHat do that Linux doesn't? What does MacOS X do that Darwin doesn't?


Hurd is (currently) built on top of Mach and provides the major operating system services you'd expect in a POSIX-like kernel. Mach is a microkernel and doesn't provide any (well, doesn't provide many) of this kind of thing itself. It acts as a kind of supporting frame for the processes that do the real work.

What you really meant... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148201)

RMS thinks turd can be loosed in 2002. He's very constipated with that thing up his ass and all.

WooHoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148216)

The parent article number is pretty close to pi...

Re:WooHoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148338)

.....although not as close as this [slashdot.org] post

Linux is obsolete (0)

bryam (449040) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148202)

Hey:

Read carefully: "Linux is obsolete" said RMS :-)
Come on Richard, read the Tannembaum vs Torvalds discussion about Microkernels.

And remember to port to IA-64, SPARC, Alpha, ..., S-390...

Well, maybe the best part is that we can continue naming Linux (not GNU/Linux) to our operating systems now that Stallman have Hurd, excuse me, GNU/Hurd ;-)

right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148208)

how long has this Turd been in development? it sounds like a ploy so people will still remember Hurd even exists.

Ironically enough... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148283)

Turd works just as well as a recursive acronym as Hurd, for saying exactly the same thing. That's the big downside of recursive acronyms: the first letter is kinda redundant...

Will it be too little too late? (3, Insightful)

anandsr (148302) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148211)

I used to follow HURD till about 3-4 years back than
lost all interest. There are some very special
features that you get with HURD, but now with UML
some of them are being fulfilled by Linux. I hope
the best for HURD, but I don't see it gaining much
mindshare in the near future.

Red alert ! Red alert ! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148212)

RMS said in an interview in India that Hurd will see the light of day this year.

Emergency power to the sarcasm deflectors !

What makes Hurd different? (2, Insightful)

Jobe_br (27348) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148213)

As we all know, by now, Apple's OS X [apple.com] is also based on the Mach microkernel. The foundation of OS X is Darwin [apple.com]. Darwin is Open Source and it runs under x86 PCs and of course Apple hardware. So my question is quite simply, how is Hurd different? Is the Darwin kernel architecture not OO-based? Does Hurd bring other advantages to it that Darwin doesn't already have?

Re:What makes Hurd different? (5, Funny)

HiQ (159108) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148266)

Does Hurd bring other advantages to it that Darwin doesn't already have? Well, yes! The big difference is that Hurd is named by a pair of mutually recursive acronyms. Darwin isn't. So there you go!

Re:What makes Hurd different? (4, Informative)

karmawarrior (311177) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148293)

My understanding is that the Darwin kernel is basically a port of the FreeBSD kernel to Mach, probably with some NextStep stuff thrown in.


Hurd is a completely ground-up new design. It's not a Unix or Unix-like kernel, though it does provide those services.

Re:What makes Hurd different? (4, Insightful)

phaze3000 (204500) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148345)

Does Hurd bring other advantages to it that Darwin doesn't already have?

Yes, unlike Darwin [gnu.org], Hurd is Free, not just source-avaliable.

It'll be interesting to see how Hurd performs against Linux once it's more mature. I strongly suspect that Linux will kick Hurd's arse performance wise, but that remains to be seen. Another Free operating system is of course always welcome.. :)

Ouch, my sides! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148215)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA

Giggle

No, wait...HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good one RMS! Oh man, you should be a fucking stand up with comedy like that!

Mac OS X (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148218)

Random Question:

Since the Hurd runs on top of Mach, and so does MacOSX, would it be possible to run the Hurd alongside OSX at the same time?

"Free" Linux Distro (2, Insightful)

Constrain_Me (551193) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148223)

"One of the reasons we are looking forward to having the GNU system finally available from the GNU Project is that it will be only free software," Stallman added.

Doesn't Debian only include Free (as in speech) software???

Re:"Free" Linux Distro (2, Flamebait)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148279)

sorry, preachers such as mr. stallman don't have time to answer obvious questions such as this. I'll help him out a little. yes debian includes free software, but it's based on the Linux kernel which refused to call it GNU/Linux. If they won't have GNU someplace in the name, and refuse to ad those 3 little letters somewhere, then Stallman's little group will start up their own competing, less mature, and less feature rich proejct because the free software must be GNU. oh wait i was thinking about the gnome stuff. it only has 2 letters and HURD, well.. still seems like a revenge type thing to me.

Re:"Free" Linux Distro (2, Insightful)

sfraggle (212671) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148361)

> it's based on the Linux kernel which refused to call it GNU/Linux.

No, the kernel is called linux, RMS's dispute is that what is called "linux the operating system" is actually a modified version of GNU using the linux kernel, hence GNU/Linux.

> If they won't have GNU someplace in the name, and refuse to ad those 3 little letters somewhere, then Stallman's little group will start up their own competing, less mature, and less feature rich proejct because the free software must be GNU.

Um, no, not even the FSF are _that_ pedantic. GNU uses Xfree86 which is non-GNU free software.

> HURD, well.. still seems like a revenge type thing to me.

Revenge for what? Hurd has been under development for longer than Linux has. Check your facts.

Re:"Free" Linux Distro (3, Funny)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148424)

>Um, no, not even the FSF are _that_ pedantic. GNU uses Xfree86 which is non-GNU free software.

it's only a matter of time :).

I do not think this is aboutrevenge! (2, Insightful)

modipodio (556587) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148393)

I think the point of this excersise is,(and was), to build a 100% free,(as in speech), os.

"Welcome to the GNU Project web server, www.gnu.org. The GNU Project was launched in 1984 to develop a complete Unix-like operating system which is free software: the GNU system. (GNU is a recursive acronym for ``GNU's Not Unix''; it is pronounced "guh-NEW".) Variants of the GNU operating system, which use the kernel Linux, are now widely used; though these systems are often referred to as ``Linux'', they are more accurately called GNU/Linux systems. "

This was stallman's intention right from the begining ,When the linux kernel came along this got side tracked.I am glad Hurd is near completion as I will soon be able to work and play on a completely free os.

This is not about revenge.I will be very happy to use a ,"..less mature, and less feature rich proejct ..",which is free,(as in speech),than a feature filled os which is not 100% free.

Re:I do not think this is aboutrevenge! (-1)

Genghis Troll (158585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148446)

How is linux any less "free" than the HURD is? Both use the GPL. Linux is less free because it's not commonly called "GNU/Linux"?

Re:"Free" Linux Distro (3, Interesting)

joe_fish (6037) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148284)

Linus interprets the GPL for Linux as allowing non-GPL apps and device drivers, and there are a lot of non-GPL apps for Linux.

<speculation>
RMS will interpret the GPL for Hurd as allowing only GPL apps and device drivers. So even if Hurd gets to be big there would never be an Oracle/Hurd etc.

Or in other words Hurd will never be as big a Linux
</speculation>

Re:"Free" Linux Distro (5, Informative)

naasking (94116) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148379)

RMS will interpret the GPL for Hurd as allowing only GPL apps and device drivers.

For your information, Hurd is a microkernel with device drivers as user-space applications, ie. they are not linked into the kernel as in Linux. Since no linking takes place, the GPL does not apply and you can have as many closed-source drivers as you like. GPL does not apply to stand-alone applications if they do not link with GPL code.

Re:"Free" Linux Distro (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148295)

Fuck you and Debian.

Read the article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148439)

You really should read the article before you post. The same goes for you other fools who replied to this post.

From the article.... (0, Redundant)

phunhippy (86447) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148225)

"In India there are a number of people who are capable of seeing free software as an ethical and social issue, whereas in many parts of the world very few people recognize the ethical and social issues, and they are more interested in the practical benefits of today's free software," Stallman said.

And err.. what are these social and ethical issues when they are more interested in the benefits of it... errr.. maybe me just tired.. can someone explain what he's saying there.. i'm lost....on this one....

thanks

Don't post on level 2 like that! (2, Troll)

Jeppe Salvesen (101622) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148267)

Crikey. Don't post on level 2 when you're just too dumb/tired to understand what he's saying.

Quite simply : In the west, we only care about linux because it's cheap. In India, they care because it's Free as in Speech and they consider that a good thing.

Linux alone (5, Interesting)

Anders (395) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148232)

Quoting the article: "Linux is a kernel, and now we have our kernel, which is an alternative to Linux, and they both work in the context of the overall GNU system, as the kernel alone won't run without the rest of the system ," he said.

Linux alone actually runs quite well, though not doing much of interest. But by adding only a few (non-GNU, I believe) tools to the kernel, it is quite capable as, for example, a router.

Re:Linux alone (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148292)

But then it would have most likely been built using GNU tools.

Get a clue (1, Flamebait)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148396)

the kernel alone will run ?

1) how will you compile it ? Not with GNU compiler collection I hope ...
2) how will you install it ? Not with the GNU bootloader I hope
3) What will it run ? Not a GNU shell I hope (bash, csh, ...)
4) What desktop system will you run on it ? Not GNOME (GNU ...) I hope

nearly all components of the "linux" operating system are GNU, except the kernel itself ...

Just a thought

Re:Linux alone (3, Insightful)

hawk (1151) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148462)

>Linux alone actually runs quite well, though not
>doing much of interest.


Yes, but linux+GNU tools doesn't do all that much of interest, either, untill you add the other things we take for granted . . .


Which, of course, is why when most people say "linux", they *don't* mean "linux kernel and GNU tools," but also perl, sendmail, X, and a gaggle of others . . .


hawk

Yeah and No... (5, Interesting)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148236)

I read the following in the article:

"In India there are a number of people who are capable of seeing free software as an ethical and social issue, whereas in many parts of the world very few people recognize the ethical and social issues, and they are more interested in the practical benefits of today's free software," Stallman said.

I think it has nothing to do with India in specific. It has more to do with that getting people to pay software when they do not have the money is the issue.

Last time I checked Indian programmers want to be paid just as much as everyone else on this planet. It is just right now that Indian programmers are getting shafted and paid less than they rightfully deserve.

While the FSF does not preclude getting paid, it makes it DAMM difficult. If you look at the past Slashdot arcticles you can see a good business model is what makes sense. I would like the FSF to consider the fact that people have mortgages, children and college.

Sure there are companies that are doing ok. IE Redhat, but Redhat is one of the few. The rest are having problems as witnessed by the slashdot articles. Philosphical arguments are easy when you are feed, clothed and have a roof over your head.

Don't worry (1)

NDPTAL85 (260093) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148332)

Its a self solving problem. As IBM and Red Hat become the only companies that can make money from an open source business model the rest of the industry will wise up and quit trying to make money by selling what you can't sell, free software.

Re:Yeah and No... and No (2, Interesting)

samjam (256347) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148366)

As a programmer making fair wages with fair outgoings and a family I can't (or won't?) afford windows + office.

I do contribute to OS software and am happy to use Linux and Open Office along with Lilypond etc etc and all my other favourites.

So OS helps me, the guy with family to put through school.

Sam

Benefits? (2)

Splat (9175) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148242)

As someone who is not familiar with the HURD project (other then: it's a GPL'd Kernel?) can someone provide us with a brief list of some of the cool features/immediately noticable advantages HURD should provide? (This isn't intended as flamebait - I just seriously couldn't dig up much info in plain english)

Re:Benefits? (1)

Dix (73628) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148348)

The most commonly stated advantage is that since if you have the right translator a filesystem can be attached via a port by any user. Thus, a norm al user can 'mount' a filesystem in her home directory (say).

That's just the tip of the iceberg of course.

what's the hurd? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148244)

"The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. The Hurd is a collection of servers..."
I don't understand how it can be a "collection of servers". This is from here [fsf.org] a page off of the Hurd link in submission.
Help.

Re:what's the hurd? (2)

karmawarrior (311177) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148318)

The Hurd uses a microkernel architecture, and currently runs over Mach. In this architecture, operating system services are provided by "servers" that provide those services to conventional applications. For instance, there's a "file server" which apps communicate with for access to files.

Re:what's the hurd? (5, Informative)

Arker (91948) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148433)

The HURD is a Hird of Unix Replacing Daemons. Clearer?


What's a Hird? Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth. There, all clear now?


Seriously, the HURD is a microkernel system. Instead of having a (relatively) big kernel that provides all the necessary services, a microkernel system has a very minimal kernel and provides most of the services a kernel usually provides by way of userspace daemons (the Hird of Unix Replacing Daemons) instead. [everything2.com]


Academic CS guys have been saying microkernels are the way of the future for years now. Mac OS10 runs on the Mach microkernel. Windows NT was supposed to be a microkernel, although by the time it actually made it to the light of day so much had been stuffed back into the kernel for performance reasons it really isn't one.


The number one drawbacks to microkernels, as the above might lead you to guess, is performance. On a single processor system expect a microkernel to lag significantly performancewise in comparison to a monolithic kernel with equal optimisations. That's a result of the fact that so many things we think of as system services are user processes instead, and of the communication overhead involved (message passing between components is used extensively, and this is not the fastest way to handle things on a uniprocessor system.)


Why do I say "on a uniprocessor system?" Well, some of that overhead becomes unavoidable anyway when you move to a multiprocessor system, and a microkernel is inherently multithreaded, so it's quite friendly to multiprocessor systems. So as multiprocessor systems become more common the performance gap may drop.


Currently the HURD is a collection of servers that run on top of the GNU Mach microkernel. Does that sentence make more sense for you now? I hope so.


The GNU Mach microkernel is something of a performance dog, but at this point the HURD is still at a development only stage anyway so it doesn't much matter. It will probably be moved to an L4 [tu-dresden.de] microkernel instead before it's used in production machines. The L4 family gives much improved performance. Still slower than a highly tuned monolithic kernel like Linux, particularly on uniprocessor systems, but much closer.


So if microkernels are slower, why use them at all? Well, they have the potential to bring an entire new world of flexibility to computing. Imagine having different "personalities" - different collections of "kernel service" daemons, so that your box can run Linux, BSD, Solaris, VMS, or even Windows sessions, on the fly. Imagine being able to switch between them, or run different ones simultaneously, without having "root" privileges and without affecting other users. This is just one of the many interesting things that could be done on a microkernel system but not on a monolithic one. Another one is a system where any user can do all sorts of things that normally require root access, except for mess up other users.


None of the pre-existing systems seem to have ever really taken advantage of microkernel design - rather they just use a microkernel to emulate a single monolithic kernel (usually BSD.) However, there are some pretty incredible microkernel only tricks out there waiting to be done, and the HURD developers plan on finally doing them.

talk about persistance to complete a task (1, Interesting)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148246)

these guys will never realize when it just doesn't make sense to do a project. aren't they the ones who started that gnome desktop years after the kde desktop because they didn't like the licensing terms? now that gnome (or some of it anyway) will be heavily using the M$ .NET technologies. i guess as long as their code can be licensed GPL, it's ok. really guys, this HURD thing, i've been reading about it here on /. for a few years now, and i just looks like a the little project that wouldn't die. yeah, fresh ideas are a good thing and all, but my question to those HURD people would be, what exactly are the new/interesting features (stability , robustness, smp) that you'll be providing the "community"? and how do you plan to over come the challenges the "other" kernel guys have gone through in the last 10+ years?
to throw a little sarcasm in: who knows, maybe _they'll_ accept that pre-emptable kernel patch someone submits. and maybe _they'll_ never have a release 1.15.dont_use_this_tar_ball release. maybe they just won't use virtual memory at all. (did you see what happened to the 2.4 linux series with that one?)

Persistence is a virtue (3, Insightful)

anandsr (148302) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148296)

If you think why MS is so ubiquitous, it is because
of their persistence. They will do whatever
possible to sell a software. If still they fail
they try again again and again. If they fail they
will find a way to force it down your throat.

That is what RMS is. He is persistence. If it
wasn't for his persistence, there wouldn't be a GNU
project. And detractors may say what they like but
Linux wouldn't exist without GNU (I don't agree to
GNU/Linux). People who can't see the benefit of
GNOME, must understand that it was GNOME which
forced QT to reduce restrictions in their license
so that you can trust that QT won't be taken away
in the future.

HURD is a unique product, although I don't agree
with the cathedral like way they produce it but
still will be one product which can compete with
Linux in the future. Its only a matter of time,
when the system is made more efficient.

Re:talk about persistance to complete a task (2)

oyenstikker (536040) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148394)

"what exactly are the new/interesting features...that you'll be providing the 'community'?"

Who says they have to provide anything to anyone? Maybe they are doing it because (*gasp*) they WANT to.

Re:talk about persistance to complete a task (2)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148443)

if a project isn't providing value of some sort, it's prudent to can the project. and saying they do it because they want to, but pounding the GNU/Linux marking shows that they do want their credit, even if it's not $$. these guys want a GNU system (as stated in the article) and will hold nothing back until they get it no matter how much of a drain it is.

RMS strikes again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148247)

Nothing, and I mean nothing brands RMS as a self-centered zealot more than his insistance on forging ahead with Hurd. How can anyone think it will possibly make a difference to real-world users?

The HURD Dead Pool Betting Pool (4, Funny)

linuxislandsucks (461335) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148250)

I bet $150 Hurd will not be released this year..

Place your bets here!

Re:The HURD Dead Pool Betting Pool (1)

psavo (162634) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148289)

I place 200 for that black birdie down there. wussitsname.. Lumix. Yeah, that's it, Lumix.

For non-finnish reders, 'Lumi' means 'snow' in finnish..

It's Ahead (1, Funny)

The Gardener (519078) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148251)

The GNU Project launched in 1984 to develop a Unix-like operating system to be offered as free software. By 1991, the Linux kernel was available, ahead of the GNU kernel, called the Hurd.

Oh yeah, the the Linux kernel was available in 1991, ahead of the Hurd kernel. I'd say eleven years and counting is "ahead". It's already been through dozens of revisions, spawned countless companies, aided a massive market bubble, and caused a giant, mutant penguin to terrorized Redmond, WA. I'd say it's "ahead".

The Gardener

Re:It's Ahead (2, Interesting)

pinkUZI (515787) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148299)

I'd say eleven years and counting is "ahead".

It really makes you wonder why the project hasn't died. From the article I really can't see anything that the hurd will offer that the linux kernel does not already offer. And with linux already as widespread as it is, it doesn't seem like the Hurd has much of a market.

Re:It's Ahead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148454)

Because RMS has a major case of "Not Invented Here" syndrome.

Mach sucks, though. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148259)

The reason hurd will see the light of day is if the hurd port to a decent microkernel, L4ka, becomes the primary development focus...

really!! (0, Troll)

tanveer1979 (530624) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148261)

yeah
i am damn excited. its good its cool whoooaaah,. hurd is coming, its gonna bash all compatition. Its been blessed by the pope of free software. beware penguins coz you will be trampled under the hooves!!
Do i care! or do you care.
Credit is all he wants. He is getting too much of it. People call him pope of Free software! and then he rants on in his interview that 'they' are forgotten.
It is rather that 'he' is forgotten not 'they'.
And i really think its not really gonna come out this year. Its been long since hurds coming out.
Do you need it, do i need it!! Long live the penguin!
And for gods sake somebody tell thay guy to stop playing around with recursive acronyms. English is not gcc. Recursion is somehting i better leave to my Box to figure out already i got enough hurds trampling my brain

*sniff sniff* - I smell a Flamewar a'brewin :) (1, Funny)

NeoTron (6020) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148263)

Wheeee :) Now we'll have the "Hurd is better than Linux because" arguments, and the "Linux is better than Hurd" stuff too :) And we all know what Linus thinks of microkernels :)

*Sits back and watches the ensuing fun*

:)

What IS the status? (3, Funny)

pinkUZI (515787) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148282)

The Hurd...provides a rather complete and usable operating system today. It is not ready for production use, as there are still many bugs and missing features.

Complete. Usable. Not Ready. Buggy. Missing Features.

Maybe this is why it's so late.. (2)

Havokmon (89874) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148287)

From the Hurd page:
According to Thomas Bushnell, BSG, the primary architect of the Hurd: `Hurd' stands for `Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons'. And, then, `Hird' stands for `Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth'. We have here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of mutually recursive acronyms.

Is it just me, or are people who should be PROGRAMMING spending WAY too much time on non-programming garbage?

It's like the whole WINE GPL/BSD license thing. The WINE Programmers decided on the correct license. Ganted, I don't know their structure, but, IMHO, Programmers should be making business decisions as often as MBA's should be making programming decisions.

My favorite saying comes out time and again:
There are two types of people in the world. Those who understand what they do not manage, and those who manage what they do not understand.

Re:Maybe this is why it's so late.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148326)

These kinds of acronyms don't take any more than two minutes to come up with.

Perhaps the kernel is 'late' because writing a kernel is /hard/.

Re:Maybe this is why it's so late.. (1)

Hobbex (41473) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148404)

The WINE Programmers decided on the correct license. Ganted, I don't know their structure, but, IMHO, Programmers should be making business decisions as often as MBA's should be making programming decisions.

What are you doing here? Do you even know what Free software is?

We write whatever software we like, call it whatever happens to tickle our fancy, release it under whatever license we want, and finish it whenever we happen to get done with it. The downside: we don't get paid. The upside: No corporations, no MBAs, no "business decisions" and nobody telling us what to do.

A free software project needs an MBA like a foot needs a bullet in it.

Re:Maybe this is why it's so late.. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148432)

GET TO WORK!!

Hehe, just kidding.

Re:Maybe this is why it's so late.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148448)

A free software project needs an MBA like a foot needs a bullet in it

With attitudes like this in the free software community, it's no wonder Linux is never going to break into the desktop market.

The Hurd and Linux (5, Insightful)

ukryule (186826) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148297)

In an attempt to answer all the 'why not just use Linux?' questions, have a look at the man's explanation [gnu.org] of it.

Basically, Linux wasn't around when Hurd was started, and they believe it is different enough to complete/compete despite the grand rise of Linux. (Remarkably honest & non-political notes by RMS)

Good luck to them - i hope it succeeds (we can't have Linux becoming a monopoly ... :-)

The Hurd and Linux ...and FreeBSD (4, Insightful)

BadlandZ (1725) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148434)

Many may disagree, but there are a lot of people out there that prefer the BSD licence to the GNU/GPL license scheme.

So, they built a (arguably) better OS based on BSD license, and called it FreeBSD. Then it forked and we have NetBSD, OpenBSD, and FreeBSD.

Despite the great beauty of FreeBSD, and the vastly developed environment (countless ports that work flawlessly, providing users with easy to install and run applications), FreeBSD is not doing as well as Linux.

Why? Buzzword Bingo. It's hard enough to compete with Microsoft to get a persons attention, and convince them to try a new OS. And, when the average person looks for a "alternative" Linux is the most obvious choice. FreeBSD gets only a small fraction of that attention, even if it is technically equivalent (or better in some people's opinion).

IMHO, this is why HURD may fail. It's not because it won't be a good alternative, or because it will be technically inferior, because those will likely be untrue. Hurd will probably be competitive, but how will it get a market share?

Linux will make vast roads to having a real-time kernel, embedded, etc... (QNX like), long before Hurd is ready. So, add the lack of press, lack of interest, and slow development, I can't help but think it will not see much success. How can you not see it in a similar light to the BSDs, even if the licensing is different?

So the most importaint question is.. (2)

psavo (162634) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148302)

What's the name?

According to tradition it's got to have a name. More X's, the better. Not three X's thou.
So my bet would be Hurdix. (No GNU, because there's no non-GNU hurd..)

hurd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148317)

Anyone ever see a hurd of three legged horses running a race ? They crash just as often.

Hurd and .net (1, Flamebait)

heroine (1220) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148335)

Does Hurd run .net? Does it compile C#? Does it emulate Cleartype? Does it use official Microsoft .dlls or does it rely on immitations?

I don't want to brag (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148342)

But my penis is significantly larger than average...

Re:I don't want to brag (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148369)

So is my car. What's the big deal ?

Because... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148380)

Maybe this is RMS' chance to lead an OS kernel project, as it seems like nobody wants the looser involved in his OSS/FS project!

Light of Day (3, Funny)

paranoid.android (71379) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148391)

"RMS said in an interview in India that Hurd will see the light of day this year."

But RMS won't. He hasn't been out of his cave since 1986.

sung to the tune of "Surfin' Bird" (-1)

trollercoaster (250101) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148403)


a la the Ramones

Well everybody's heard about the hurd

Hurd hurd hurd
Hurd is a turd

Don't you know about the hurd
Well everybody knows that the hurd is a turd

Hurd hurd hurd hurd is a turd

This is not surprising... (2)

mirko (198274) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148418)

I installed this version of Debian Hurd [debian.ch] (id=51) months ago and it is quite stable (I'd say more than windows95) so, because of its elegance, the few remaining minor problems should be fixed soon.
So, whoever called this vapourware should at least verify their sources : Hurd is no more confidential.

Why Hurd? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3148425)

Hurd is a perfect example of the FSF/RMS determination to have their finger in everything. It isn't enough that we can't call Linux, "Linux", we actually have to put some BS marketing prefix (GLU/Linux. Now, we need to replace it with another OS! Why? Simply because RMS does not have total control over Linux? This is insane. Do we need another Unix? We have so many versions out there right now, many of them free by any definition.

Does anyone still care? (0, Troll)

Pathetic Coward (33033) | more than 12 years ago | (#3148452)

The software industry is dead: development has become the equivalent of amateur radio, a hobby declining as its participants age and die. Who is going to use this thing?
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