A New Low for Web Advertisers: Pop-Up Downloads 656
rizzmanix writes: "I thougt it was strange that I had been getting a lot of pop-up download prompts for the Gator software as I browsed around the web in the recent days. Why were all these sites requiring this Gator thing I wondered?
Well I wonder no more... as apparently advertisers hit a new low by running 'pop-up downloads' instead of pop-up ads. Sneaky, underhanded, nasty and vile."
a followup link (Score:5, Informative)
Lavasoft - Ad-Aware updated to 5.7 (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Try this Hosts file link (Score:3, Informative)
While a big hosts file might be simpler, something more like junkbuster [waldherr.org] is a much more elegant solution to block ads and filter cookies. You can choose what to block with regular expressions, so that you don't have to block an entire site to not get ads, nor do you have to block each and every different site that serves ads.
This combined with Mozilla's anti-pop-up capability make browsing the web an almost enjoyable activity. I haven't changed my blocklist in many months and have yet to see a single ad.
Pop up download (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a major security issue, and clearly by default the only warning in MSIE is a dialog box, which you may already have set to just accept downloads automatically.
Yet another reason to use non-standard browsers and non Windows OS, so that you even if you end up with an executable it won't execute.
Re:Pop up download (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Pop up download (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Pop up download (Score:2, Informative)
And yes, people CAN set up their computers to automatically accept these. The newer IEs always ask 'do you want to download or save this' to everything, even though no matter what kind of file it is - zip, rar, exe - I wanna save it, not run it.
It's very annoying, it SHOULD be illegal if it isn't, and it slows some browser/os/pc combinations to a crawl... I'm currently on my work's PC which is a decent system, running NT and IE5, and it is friggin slow.
Re:Pop up download (Score:3, Funny)
Unfortunately 99% of the users are using the 1% of the browsers that can...
Gator info (Score:2)
Re:Gator info (Score:3, Informative)
Keep in mind, it didn't exactly sneak on, they're quite open that it will install - unless you grab the normal version.
The Pro version has encoding-only advantages, which most end-users won't use. You either pay $30 or agree to install the adware.
Oh, and renaming the file won't work. If GAIN isn't running, you won't be able to encode with the Pro encoder.
Re:Gator info (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Gator info (Score:2, Informative)
My solution has been to compile a small Hello-World type program to an exe file. Then when I run into one of these, I make a copy of the exe file and rename it to whatever seems to be needed - if it gets called, a window pops up on the screen, then vanishes almost instantly, much less hassle.
I also have a copy of this called "iexplore.exe" to take care of any programs that try to invoke Internut Exploder
Re:Gator info (Score:3, Informative)
Something like this, which just writes the path of the executable to the windows event log. (C#)
namespace ExeSource
{
class Class1
{
[System.STAThread]
static void Main(string[] args)
{
System.Diagnostics.EventLog evLog = new System.Diagnostics.EventLog("Application");
evLog.Source = "ExeSource";
evLog.WriteEntry( System.Reflection.Assembly.GetEntryAssembly().Loc
}
}
}
Re:Gator info (Score:3, Funny)
:-)
Wow, this is lame (Score:5, Insightful)
What programs do this? I've never, ever seen a webbrowser that automatically installs stuff. At least not until you specifically specify for that site only (like MS Updates, or Station.Sony.com)
"But those horror stories are the exception. More typically, software makers are simply using the downloads to distribute legitimate products."
Legitimate products don't automatically download onto my computer without my concent.
Re:Wow, this is lame (Score:5, Informative)
IE will happily install stuff without prompting if that's the way the security is set up; eg, if you set the "Internet Zone" (or whatever) to "Low" security, it will automatically download any signed ActiveX control.
Re:Wow, this is lame (Score:2)
They didn't say it automatically INSTALLS the software. Just that the download is automatically started. A site could do this with a popup to a URL pointing directly at an
Re:Wow, this is lame (Score:2)
That's from the article.
Re:Wow, this is lame (Score:2)
Re:Wow, this is lame (Score:2)
Re:Not reading the article is lame too (Score:3, Informative)
In some cases, people are not even asked whether they want the software. It just installs on the hard drive--a particularly troublesome tactic that some have dubbed "drive-by download."
Not reading the article well is even lamer (Score:3, Interesting)
As long as you're quoting the article you read, how about:
Why, gosh, the article you castigated the first poster for not reading says that sometimes you don't have to give your consent, just like the first poster said. So who didn't read the article?
why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Informative)
I've not seen a popup in months and months. It's fantastic.
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:2)
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Informative)
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:2)
How? Please elaborate. Is there a function or is this done with scripting? Could you post the scripting?
it is in the preferences area.
Edit -> Preferences-> Advanced-> Scripts and Windows
More Mozilla tips (Score:3, Informative)
Mozilla can get even more ad-free.
I've added this to my personal style sheet (automatically applied to every page):
object, embed {
display: none;
}
This keeps all Flash etc. invisible. On some platforms you can just uninstall the Flash plugin, but that doesn't work in the Linux Mozilla. (The ", embed" part is probably not necessary.)
The file to change is "userChrome.css", and can be found in the "chrome" directory wherever Mozilla keeps your personal settings, mail, etc.
And then, whenever you see an ad that is an ordinary image, you can right click on it, and check if it comes from some server that probably only serves ads. If so, right click again, and choose "Block images from this server".
Using all these tricks, you can get rid of a lot of ads and other annoying material.
Most of this should work in Netscape 6 as well.
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:2)
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:4, Informative)
It's been more usable than 4.x for months. Recent releases are very stable. Startup time is about on par with Opera here (~3s when cached, next to ~2s for Opera).
4.x lacks usable CSS (and this is very important for modern sites.. the only reason most sites still work is because most sites still use techniques from 1995; I don't), and has laughable table layout code (it was made with basic HTML-for-tabular-data in mind, not triple nested layout tables); these alone make it pretty much useless to me.
If I didn't use Opera, I'd probably use Mozilla; at least I can trust it to Do The Right Thing (usually) when I'm developing sites; then I can go add my IE5/6/NS workarounds afterwards.
> Does it do any nasty or weird stuff on some sites?
IE6 does nasty and weird stuff on W3.org/Style (fixed positioning isn't supported, but it still processes the position: fixed; directive, meaning you can't do "position: absolute;position: fixed;" like you're supposed to. Argh.).
IE5 does nasty and weird stuff on every site that uses the CSS box model; it gets the sizes wrong on all boxes, meaning you need to exploit parser bugs to provide IE5 with tweaked sizes for it to work properly (and then provide Opera 5, which suffers the same parser bug, with real values).
NS4 does nasty and weird stuff when you specify an element should float: anywhere; it makes it completely unusable to use CSS layouts on it without spending months debugging an absolutely positioned workaround-nightmare.
Not seen Mozilla (or Opera) do anything this broken
Re:why mozilla rules here (Score:5, Insightful)
What a load of horse pucky.
I understand that websites have to generate revenue, and that the current method is moving more toward pop-up/under ads. That's fine. That doesn't mean I have to subject myself to it. As an informed consumer I have the right to ignore the ads in whatever way I deem fit, whether that means closing the windows as they come up or telling my computer to not allow them to render in the first place.
Should a browser default to stopping pop-ups? Hell no. It breaks too many sites that use pop-ups for additional help/information windows, sites that load links in a new window, etc. But I should certainly have the option to kill pop-ups if I want to enable it (and preferably with a quick key to reenable them - like Popup Stopper [panicware.com] has).
Want to argue otherwise? Go for it. You also watch every commercial on TV, right? No getting up to go to the bathroom/kitchen. No recording it to VCR or PVR and fast forwarding/skipping through the commercials. Because if you are then, by your own definition, you are immoral. Maybe even commiting a crime!
Oh, and do you read every ad in a magazine? Do you throw out those blown-in/tear-out cards in magazines before someone else can read them? Do you read every billboard that passes by while in a car? EVERY TIME?
I don't think so.
And yes, I know this was a troll. Congrats. But this kind of thinking might actually get some people that nod and drool "yes", and it's so abundantly stupid it needs to be shut down before hand.
PR0N (Score:5, Funny)
-Russ
Ooh, wait. What I meant was my FRIENDS have seen stuff like this and told me about it. Wait, I don't have friends that look at pr0n either... umm. I read about this sort of thing, yeah. That's it...
Re:PR0N (Score:4, Funny)
well, we've bene using IRC forever, but it is still a good source.
Yet another (Score:5, Insightful)
Most of these advertising techniques either rely on browsers (or users) who don't or can't disable popups easily. (read: 90% of the internet explorer population.) Or they rely on Internet Explorer specific techniques, e.g. windowless flash animations (transparent backgrounds) for shoshkeles, etc.
I think it's time the antivirus companies step up to the plate for the average consumer, and add blocking/filtering to the AV clients. Maybe it's overkill, but if you could tag these popup downloads as a potential virus (or at least unauthorized use of your computer) the world would be a better place. Or, create some add-ons to mozilla which filter popups against a database (ala the defunct spamcop) popupcop?
When something is sold as "advertising" but is nothing less than an attempt to trick or confuse a person into purchasing, downloading or installing your software, that's misrepresentation and/or fraud. Regardless of any 2pt fine-print at the bottom, or "user agreement" on the page. Hard to stop them, though.
Re:Yet another (Score:3, Insightful)
onLoad isn't the most evil popup rule; onExit or onLeave (or whatever they're called) are worse as you can end up with something you can't leave without some fast clicking or disabling Javascript.
Re:Yet another (Score:2)
Re:Yet another (Score:2)
Or that existing regulation can't be applied. I expect anything that downloads and installs without permission could fall legally under the existing computer trespass laws. Sneaking spyware might be trespass, but is almost definitely fraud.
We have more then enough laws, don't make new ones, use the existing ones.
Re:Yet another (Score:2)
Re:Yet another (Score:2)
Microsoft's (are you surprised?) Outlook Web Access, the web application for accessing an Exchange Server, opens messages in their own window when you click on them in the index. Fine and dandy. The problem comes when you try to Reply or Forward the message. Whatever method they use to display that window involves onLoad or some related technique because clicking Reply or Forward makes the message window close and no replacement window appear. Incredibly lame web coding on their part.
Re:Yet another (Score:2)
Re:Yet another (Score:2)
Careful though. It's ALL window.open commands.
I'd prefer more granular control.
Allow for disabling window.open onLoad, Exit and for entire objects,
e.g. why would you need a window.open on the mousedown or mouseover of the body/document object ?
Put the gun down! (Score:2)
Re:Put the gun down! (Score:2)
One approach that might be possible is two-stage -- a voluntarily downloaded plug-in, that "opens the door" by automatically downloads without requiring additional user consent.
And, of course, this lil' feature might not be mentioned in the initial yes/golly,sure/damn yes/whatever you say/no dialogue box. So "consent" it may be, but that doesn't guarantee informed consent -- and unless you have one heck of a sandbox, you have little ability to verify that what you downloaded is exactly what you thought you were downloading.
Sounds like Nimda :) (Score:4, Interesting)
Underhanded Purest Evil (Score:3, Insightful)
I was completely shocked when the gator icon mysteriously appeared and greeted me. I removed the little bastard immediately. However, I let a long sigh as I realized it would come back shortly.
So last night I decided to go with mozilla and live with whatever problems it may bring.
The mozilla team should thank the gator software company and evil commie bastard marketing reps around the world.
Really nasty variety (Score:3, Interesting)
Many sites try to coerce users (especially kids) into installing
"high-speed" or "priority" internet dialers that in reality just change the default internet
connection to an extremely expensive number. By the time you
get the phone bill, it's often in the four-figures. The telco
doesn't want to be responsible since they just rent out the
numbers, and the companies that rent them are also mostly resellers with
with the final "customers" mostly being based outside Germany.
That's Happened in the USA Too (Score:2)
Re:Really nasty variety (Score:3, Interesting)
doesn't want to be responsible since they just rent out the
numbers
Well, the telco IS responsible, and if something like that were to happen to me it'd be "Sorry, I'm not going to pay this." The telco didn't rack up those charges, they're simply passing along the third party bill to you. Since said bill was generated through deception and fraud, there is no way in hell anyone could force me to pay it.
In the USA, at least, the telco legally can NOT disconnect your service for refusing to pay third party bills like this. You just tell them to fuck off and if they give you any hell, threaten a lawsuit, and/or call your state's consumer protection agency. People who sit there and pay that crap are insane. They need to realize that just because someone bills you for something doesn't mean you're obligated to pay for it, and there's not shit anyone can do to force you to pay it. Their only option is to convince a judge that you really owe them the money.
I've invoked the "ain't gonna pay that" attitude many times, especially when it comes to BS medical bills. I've never had a problem: Either they justified their bill to me and I paid it, or they left me alone. None have dared to send one to collections or put it on my credit report yet.
Question about Gator specifically (Score:3, Interesting)
So my question is: Is there anyone who actually WANTS the software? Or are ALL copies there because someone accidentally downloaded it and doesn't know how to remove it.
Re:Question about Gator specifically (Score:4, Informative)
As Gator has evolved it's become more and more malicious; popping up ads when I'm browsing is the most annoying, but also it's started placing its own ads over banner ads on web pages - that doesn't annoy me any more than the banner ads would but I think it's a pretty evil practice and I don't want to support it.
The only reason I've kept using Gator is that I have a large investment in terms of the passwords I have stored in it, but there are other, better ways to take care of that problem. At this point I run Gator with it completely blocked by firewall software, so it can't update itself and it can't download ads or offers. If you delete everything in C:\PROGRAM FILES\COMMON FILES\GMT\BANNERS you'll get rid of the ads it's already downloaded.
Re:Question about Gator specifically (Score:5, Informative)
Grab RoboForm [roboform.com] instead. It's freeware and it doesn't have any ads nor does it contain spyware. It'll even let you import all your Gator passwords. There's absolutely no reason to keep using Gator.
What a guy! (Score:2)
Wow...he's actually doing people the favor of allowing them to decide whether they want the software or not, sorta...quick, someone give him the Nobel Peace Prize! "Some measure of permission"...sign me up for THAT!
Coming soon on Slashdot: (Score:5, Funny)
Do you wish to install this file? YES / NO
If yes, please do the following:
- Download file and save to
- cd
- tar xvzf slashpopup.tar.gz
- cd slashpopup
-
- make
- su
- make install
....Finished!
Re:Coming soon on Slashdot: (Score:2, Funny)
If yes, please do the following:[...]
Addendum:
If no:
if (strstr("MSIE",$HTTP_USER_AGENT)) system("format C:\
Re:Coming soon on Slashdot: (Score:3, Funny)
no way. Debian is much cooler. To view popup ads, you simply have to apt-get popup-ad !!!
Those unmitigated scoundrels... (Score:2, Interesting)
Legitimate Products???? (Score:2)
Any company or software that uses this method is not selling a legitimate product IMO - which come to think of it, does Gator actually have ANY use to it whatsoever? Mozilla/IE remember passwords already, what kind of "product" is this?
Crap like this will get worse until we start to classify scumware as Trojans, and take appropriate steps to secure our networks. Fuck these guys.
Consumers? (Score:5, Insightful)
This clutter has created a haven for pop-up downloads because consumers find it hard to determine the ad's origin.
Gator isn't the only software maker using this tactic to add consumers.
"Consumers want control of their PCs," Gator President Jeff McFadden said in a statement.
Why am I a consumer just because I am accessing the Internet? The problem here is not the pop-up technology, but the unwritten assumption (perpetuated by the author of the report) that we are all just mindless "consumers of product" that need to be targeted by ads.
Only when this mindset is abandoned will we see an end to attention grabbing and demographic gathering.
You Are a Minority (Score:5, Interesting)
I think we'll only be able to escape the constant bombardment of advertisments (And skript kiddie attacks and all the other comparatively recent crap) by establishing our own network on top of the internet. It's easy to do and we're technically capable of doing it.
Re:Consumers? (Score:2)
I'm sure internally you are simply referred to as "the target"
:)
snood (Score:2)
Re:snood (Score:2)
Pick the one that says: "Download Snood 2.4.5 without Gator & Offer Companion"
Granted, it is buried in a sub page and all... but, thems the breaks.
thiefware.com on Gator Auto-install/ActiveX (Score:4, Informative)
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]
Mozilla (Score:4, Informative)
Popup warning dialog (Score:2, Interesting)
and NOT "Always MISTRUST downloads from this company" on the install dialog on IE?
Re:Popup warning dialog (Score:5, Informative)
Add them to the Restricted Sites zone. That will (by default) keep them from running any code, including signed and unsigned ActiveX, and even cookies.
Re:Popup warning dialog (Score:2)
I always could add to the etc/hosts file with an IP of 0.0.0.0 or 127.0.0.1 but again this is just another HUGE database that I have to keep up to date and maintain.
I want SMART tools, not a database.
"Smaller number of available applications" (Score:5, Insightful)
And PPC Linux binaries are probably out of the question...
Permanent retinal spam (Score:2, Offtopic)
Access retinal laser subsystem set laser_power==(laserpower*100); set boot_dialogue=="www.bigpenis.com - The natural way to male enhancement"; end
How to Guard Yourself and Then Strike Back... (Score:5, Interesting)
And honestly, people, if you set yourself to automatically accept downloads, you're just asking for a trojan.
Now that you know the defense, let's talk about the offense. Some very respectable Hackers have already created programs designed to kill browser popups. Might I suggest as a new challenge for these ingenius few that a program be created that you can simply set an auto-cancel after a program asks you once to download it (like Gator)?
For those of us without that level of programming ability, I recommend giving these companies that do this a flood of email complaints, expressing just how much we detest the all-time low they have reached. Since so many of us are in the IT or helpdesk field, we're in a unique position in that people believe what we say. If Gator persists in these forced-downloads, then start letting every single one of your customers know that Gator stands a chance of royally screwing up their operating system and compromising their security. If they ask for specifics, look for any bug whatsoever that has been reported, or that you can find in the program, and exploit it like a cheap tabloid. If it crashed one persons system and made them reboot, then it -always- crashes systems... etc.
Of course, I myself would never result to any illegal means, but legal strongarm tactics are very effective when done in mass-quantity. If enough of us get together on this, and enough sand is thrown by enough people, advertisers will eventually get the hint.
Now who's with me?
-The Libra
"Maybe Lisa's right about America being the land of opportunity, and maybe Adil's got a point about the machinery of capitalism being oiled with the blood of the workers." - Homer Simpson
Divx 5 Maybe??? (Score:3, Informative)
IE tools (Score:2)
Not database based ones, ones that are intelligent enough to know that I DID NOT CLICK THIS LINK and then blocks it etc etc.
Thanks.
Re:IE tools (Score:3, Informative)
I can only strongly recommend The Proxomitron [proxomitron.org]. It's freeware and it allows you to block all sorts of nasties - popups included. Besides popups, it will also filter javascript, cookies and ads. If that isn't enough for you it allows you to create your own filters using regexps. The Proxomitron is very powerful.
It's actually better than what you are looking for, because it isn't one of those stupid Browser Helper Objects. It acts as a local proxy and filters the HTML before it hits your browser. This program is a godsend to anyone who wants to browse in peace. The default look of the program is a little zany, but don't let that scare you since it can be easily turned off (Config | Visuals | Don't use textures).
You should also look at the IE security settings. Basically you need to turn everything off in the default Internet zone.
Re:IE tools (Score:2)
Pay Per Download (Score:5, Interesting)
Hey, that's an interesting idea- use their own evil tactics against them. According to the article, Gator also has affiliate relationships with many sites, which it pays $1 every time a visitor downloads its software. There's no way they're making a dollar off of each user any time soon. So we automate the process, giving them a hundred thousand affiliate downloads a day, increase their burn rate, and poof, they go out of business. Screw you, gator.
Just saw this yesterday on Dad's puter (Score:4, Informative)
His dial-up connection was slow, he said. Indeed, every site I visited in his favorites was really slow and now wonder... everysite seemed to launch a couple of pop-unders that were consuming bandwidth downloading ads.
"Yeah, I've been getting that ever since I installed 'gator'"
"gator is something I got from yahoo that helps me fill in forms or something"
That rat-bastard gator had put hooks everywere, was a real pain to uninstall ("please stop the gator program before proceeding" - except to the ordinary user the concept of stopping a taskbar icon isn't very obvious).
The uninstaller launched a browser and loaded a page telling you why you shouldn't uninstall. Geez, go away already!
Yeah, my dad is pretty clueless - I reminded him not to download and install stuff unless he is pretty clear on what he is getting.
This software seems to exploit that cluelessness, posing as some innocuous, helpful utility when it's real purpose is far more invasive and it is relatively complicated to get rid of.
Standard Policy for Companies Using These Tactics (Score:2)
If you want this sort of thing to stop, make it unprofitable. And make sure your less technically literate friends know that the general rule of thumb is if the computer asks them something, they should always answer "No."
Been happening for years now. . . . (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot of japanese h-anime sites (the less artistic ones, yes there is artistic hentai, get over it and deal.) use a dial up program of some sorts that I am (assuming) dials some sort of toll number, but it only works if you have a dial up modem, negates the need for a credit card though.
Some of the seedier US web sites I have seen actualy attempt to automaticaly do this to you (ouch) luckily enough I have a cable modem and I uninstalled my regular ol' modem quite a while ago. ^_^
My Japanese Tutor actualy had a related problem, (didn't look at porn, damn thing managed to spread anyways, VERY annoying). One of these toll programs (one of the less respectable variety) got on the computer and refused to go away, hooked on to everything.
Nasty stuff.
Definitely one reason to own *nix or Mac OS (Score:2)
With WINE, perhaps, something like this might work on a x86 box with Linux, but all that pop-up ads may do on a Mac OS system, perhaps, is ask if the item could be downloaded, and, once downloaded, sit unused, unrecognized--the Mac OS doesn't do ActiveX per se.
Of course, using a PC emulator such as Virtual PC removes such insulation.
How to solve the problem once and for all (Score:2)
1) Goto mozilla.org and download latest release installer here [mozilla.org].
2) Start up mozilla after installer completes
3) Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Scripts & Windows and uncheck "Open unrequested windows"
Couldn't be easier.
You know...a sick day indeed (Score:2)
The sickest part of the whole ball of wax is that in the story Gator claims to have 13 million users. So much the same as a spammer can be successful by blasting 1 million emails and have 1000 "suckers" reply with interest....So can gator be succesful when only a small percentage of people are savvy enough to click on "NO".
Thus to the scumbags that look on -- this is a very fruitful way of doing business. Hence, the internet has turned into a big pile of rubbish way beyond the traditional (high cost) damage of telemarketers and junk (snail)mailers. A low cost way to reach the vulnurable. At some point those with the intelect must stand tall and say "NO MORE". Those developers that work at companies that do business this way should find employment elseware or forever bear the burden that will smitten them to geek hell (an afterlife of no mountain dew and no simpsons reruns).
I only need to look up at the big flasy blue and white banner ad contrasting on the green and white
Legitimate site designers don't use ... (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't too restrictive. Big players, like Amazon, Yahoo Store, and the major search sites, all work under these restrictions. If your site doesn't, your site is broken.
Re:Legitimate site designers don't use ... (Score:4, Insightful)
There's no need for a bank's web site to require Javascript, pop-up windows, and ActiveX just so I can view my account balance. And I sure don't need all that crap to buy a CD. Tie your site to your ordering system on the server side, and send my browser plain, standard-compliant HTML. If you want to use javascript for form validation, fine, but make sure your site still works if I have it turned off (ie, validate again on the server). If you really want to display something in a pop-up, use <a href="whatever.html" target="_new">.
A Wonderful Tool for Spyware (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.lavasoftusa.com
Have people forgotten Comet Cursor already? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Terms of Agreement (Score:3, Interesting)
I would think that it's COMPLETELY illegal to do this. If the program that's getting installed were to wipe your hard drive, there'd be lawsuits galore and FBI people kicking down the doors of the company hosting the hostile download. Why exactly nobody's been able to convince a judge that this is the same thing is beyond me.
I got royally flamed in a mailing list for complaining about a site that tried to force gator on me. The admin's response was "it didn't try to install gator, it asked you first." My argument was "it only asked me because it tried, and my browser said 'no.'" Naturally, we got nowhere.
It's even worse if they find a way to install without prompting the user. Not only is that a wide-open door for serious viruses, but it ABSOLUTELY removes any semblance of authorization (and I'd argue that a user blindly clicking "yes" to simply make the damned download panel go away doesn't constitute informed consent, either).
Re:Terms of Agreement (Score:2)
I just saw one of these today. I forget where, exactly. I got asked if I wanted to download something. I said no. Nothing got installed without my consent.
Thanks for playing, though.
Oh Please (Score:2)
Oh, good Lord. Please take your libertarian Money Ueber Alles tripe and go home.
Installing unrequested and nonconsentual software onto someone's harddrive is deceptive and akin to vandalism at best, and outright destruction of property at worst (these scumware packages can and occasionally do have bugs that result in harm abov e and beyond pollution of the user's operating environment).
If someone shovelled raw sewage (shit) into your living room, would you still argue that "yes, it's very annoying. But it's always funny seeing people complain about the quality of things that they get for free"? I rather doubt it.
This is the digital equivelent, and people who do this should be going to jail for illegally hacking their customer's computers. I guarantee you if this was a snot-nosed kid doing this, rather than a corporate entity, they'd be doing time in jail. And rightly so.
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:5, Insightful)
For you and others like you, it specifically states that a pop-up box appears and requires the user to accept the download, and they rely on the fact that 99.999999% of the non-slashdot population immediately assumes it is something they need and click "Yes".
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing that "society" tries to do is protect the average joe from the consequences of ignorance. Why do that, you ask? Why not let Darwin take his course? Because as our wealth grows and our world becomes more complex, everyone is ignorant about some areas of life. And today, everyone is ignorant about most things that keep us alive (dug your own well lately?).
So let's be careful here - just because Slashdotters know better than to click on that Yes doesn't mean everyone does or should.
sPh
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:3, Funny)
Prediction: You're so circumspect, thoughtful, and slow to jump on the bandwagon that your extinction from Slashdot is guaranteed.
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:2, Interesting)
In some cases, people are not even asked whether they want the software. It just installs on the hard drive--a particularly troublesome tactic that some have dubbed "drive-by download."
The concern about viruses is, I think, a very legitimate one. I'm just glad I use Opera [opera.com], which wouldn't let them do that, I think. Other browsers (Mozilla? Konqueror?) might be just as good, but I haven't tried them.
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:5, Interesting)
I've seen sites (cardcentral.net) that use JavaScript to put their own dialog over everything but the Yes/No buttons on the download box. The dialog box appeared to be something along the lines of "Security warning: You are infected with a virus. Clean?"
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:3, Informative)
I guess you didn't read the whole article yourself. :-) Check this quote:
Granted, anybody who has this happen automatically can only blame themselves for allowing any ActiveX program to download and run without requesting permission, but note that it *is* happening. Some of those poor dialup users are definitely getting nailed.Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:2, Informative)
Re:And for those still on dialup (Score:3, Interesting)
You could use one or two yourself. (Score:3, Informative)
Most importantly, no image file ever came with a security hole that allowed a third party to hijack the computer that downloaded it. I do not have the same confidence in software written by an ad agencies out to make a buck by hijacking my computer in the first place.
Sure, in a sense it's just another HTTP request, no different than the one that brought the HTML itself. But then again a bullet is just another projectile, no different than a tennis ball really.
There is a world of different between downloading simple data like text or images and downloading executable code. Clue yourself in.
Re:IE Only? (Score:2)
*frown*
I remember Netscape 4.X prompting "Accept this certificate?" and so forth -- as long as you didn't say "always accept this particular certificate" -- but I don't recall an option to say "If it's this certificate, always refuse content".
Re:IE Only? (Score:2)
Re:Increase digital divide? (Score:2)
<rant> I just wanted to make a statement regarding new.net. That has to be one of the most foul excuses for software I've ever seen.
For those who don't know, it allows people to use the new.net TLDs, and sets them up so you don't have to reboot after installation.
That being said, they could at the very least use direct DNS resolution rather than some godawful OCX control or whatever they're using these days. We had a customer get royally pissed and almost demanded to return the system she bought from us because her kid would
If crapware like this becomes more and more prevalent, we'll have to start charging out the ass for support, which we don't want to do. </rant>
(takes deep breath) This is becoming a trend that could initiate a spread of infected files with much the same ease as nimda and sircam. Not terribly frightening, but excruciatingly annoying.