Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

624 comments

fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321023)

frist p0st!

This is a first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321024)

Posting first... surely I got it.

first anti-M$ post (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321031)

umm.. yeah.. i'm a linux geek

i hate microsoft because they are the largest corporation

i don't shower

bye bye now

What's the thrill? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321033)

Fisting is one of the more extreme sexual acts that human beings perform. It is certainly one of the more dangerous. People who get into fisting will often describe it as their 'ultimate high', the best expression of their sexuality, 'the most sensuous act'. For others it is just 'serious raunch'. For the fistee, part of it is the physical sensation, which can be tremendous, particularly when the prostate is stimulated. For the fister, there is the tremendous kick of being inside someone so deeply, where you can feel the warmth and the strength of the pulse. For both parties, there is the mental thrill, the intimacy and the trust.
Trust is vital to fisting. If you want to be fisted you should be able to say, hand on heart, that you trust the fister to look after you. Some people can make that decision a few minutes after meeting. Others could take months. How long it takes to decide does not matter. The trust matters. Without that trust a fistee will find it difficult to relax. If he can't relax he either won't be able to take the fist or it will hurt badly. Either way it increases the risk of injury.

It has to be said that the best fisters are fistees as well. They know what it feels like to have a fist inside them so they know what hurts and what doesn't. If you're new to being fisted you could do worse than choose an expert for your first attempts.

Project HeilStorm (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321037)

I don't know why you guys hated HeilStorm so much!

MS is running outta juice! (2, Interesting)

bpd1069 (57573) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321038)

Is it just me or can you just feel that MS's trajectory has passed its apex and is on its way back to earth??

Re:MS is running outta juice! (2, Insightful)

CmdrTaco (editor) (564483) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321098)

No, it's not just you. The problem seems to be that MS has tried to expand too quickly at quite an inopportune time. Their attempts at horizontal integration of the entire consumer electronics industry has backfired with the current antitrust issues going on.

The half-assed attempt at a console, also known as the X-Box, is surely just an investment for the future home entertainment systems created by Microsoft, but at the rate they're going there will not be enough cash on hand to take the losses normally associated with selling console systems.

It will be interesting to see how successful Microsoft will be with their current networking desires that follow their .NET and passport ideas, and whether or not these too will fail or just become immensely unpopular. Regardless, the deathly grip they hold on the OS market has yet to see a legitimate adversary, so it will be a long time before we see the complete downfall of Microsoft.

Re:MS is running outta juice! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321103)

You do realize that each year has meant MANY times increases in sales for them, they are showing no signs of slowing down, no more than anyone else in this tight economy. Anything else is wishful thinking on your part. Think about their future, XP, Pocket PC , .NEt, the best is yet to come.

Re:MS is running outta juice! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321106)

Yes, and trust was their thrust.
Looks as if they run out of it...
..I guess that's why Companys usually
don't behave like Microsoft did.

Re:MS is running outta juice! (3, Insightful)

nzgeek (232346) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321138)

Yeah I've had the same feeling for a while

IMHO, subscription licensing and .NET (or at least the plan for Hailstorm-integrated .NET apps) are just a couple of things that will mark the end of MS as we know it.

There just seems to be a groundswell of (shock-horror!) FUD against MS. Mom & Pop Win98 user are happy running MS's desktop OS, but let them run banking security? No way!

Don't get me wrong - Bill will find a way (e.g. X-box/consumer eletronics) to still make piles of cash and dominate a market - but I know of more than a couple of hardened MS-heads that are seriously considering alternatives. These are the same guys that swear by Win2k, Active Directory etc..

At risk of being modded down, you've gotta give the guy (Bill) credit. He's always got alternatives - and if not the sheer size of his cashpile will enable him to buy into the Next Big Thing (remember their late internet entry?)

Re:MS is running outta juice! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321164)

No, what you are feeling is a penis tearing open your sphincter as your dirty GNU hippy roommate is getting the only as that he can.

nope (5, Funny)

telstar (236404) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321196)

It's not that Microsoft's trajectory has necessarily passed its apex, it's that websites like slashdot focus more attention on pointing out Microsoft's missteps. Take ANY large company and put it under the microscope ... and you'll find the exact same thing.

Worried about .Net? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321040)

When people trot out that .Net is an evil system to make everyone turn into Microsoft slaves by turning over our personal records to them, it is a disgusting display of ignorance of what .Net really is.

It is a set of services, including web services, that is designed to compete with Java.

Just because Hailstorm was to be implemented as a service of .Net does not mean that Hailstorm == .Net.

Please get a clue.

Re:Worried about .Net? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321082)

>Please get a clue.

You are asking FAR too much from these dimwitted slashdot freaks.

Re:Worried about .Net? (2, Troll)

ttyRazor (20815) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321097)

Considering that Microsoft doesn't even know exacty what .Net is supposed to be besides the realization of glossy near-scifi software you see in crappy hollywood movies and will practically write itself, its no wonder everyone else is ignorant.

.NET is actually pretty sweet (5, Interesting)

VFVTHUNTER (66253) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321211)

I had used Linux and FreeBSD excusively for about two years - I even once posted a (rejected) Ask Slashdot question entitled "Why Windows," arguing that with the multimedia (mplayer) and browser (pick konq/galeon) support available in Linux, that no one needed Windows.

My viewpoint has changed radically. I have an XP box now - it's actually a pretty stable OS. And .NET delivers on all the promises that Sun had made of Java. (M$ has beaten them - intsead of "write once, run anywhere," .NET offers "compile once, run anywhere.")

I still use Linux/Apache/MySQL for all of my servers - and with SQL 2000 at $20,000 per processor that won't change anytime soon - but Windows has gotten more stable. Linus once said that he started Linux because he wanted software that didn't stink...win3.1, win95, and win98 all stink, but 2K and XP are actually pretty nice.

I will probably switch back over to an all OSS setup when Miguel et al finish Mono. That's gonna be sweet, too - imagine the day when you can compile an executable (not java bytecode) on a {Windows, Linux} box and then run that executable on a {Linux, Windows} box.

That's the nice thing about .NET - M$ has actually embraced industry standards. ASP.NET can be accessed from any client provided you have an HTTP connection. That's the only requirement. I sitll support the paranoid people, because there is always the chance that M$ will extend and extinguish what it has embraced, but with them having submitted everything to ECMA, that's really an outside worry.

Re:Worried about .Net? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321128)

No one had clamed .net to equal Hailstorm!

Talk about jumping the fucking gun!

Plus Java and .net don't really compete, .NET is almost competely MS only, and is the MFC, Win32 and VB replacement, Java is a platform independed tool for writing "enterprise" (read server stuff) and small cross platform applets (as in mini-applications not web page-applets).

Nice troll, but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321168)

No one had clamed .net to equal Hailstorm!

Microsoft Gives Up on Hailstorm
As a person worried about the future with .NET, this is a bit of a relief.

.Net is still being pursued, so any relief with regards to it should still be in effect. If, however, the author thought that Hailstorm's demise meant .Net's demise, he's completely mistaken. Frankly, this kind of misinformation is presented as truth here on /. far too often.

.Net competes directly with Java in the enterprise. It is not relegated to only MS platforms.

Your claims to the contrary are simply proof that I'm responding to a troll. Congrats, I've bitten.

Re:Worried about .Net? (-1, Troll)

jsimon12 (207119) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321175)

Wow, you are exactly right, .NET is great I am going to use it from now on. Yeah right, I will use .NET when pigs fly out my anus. Get a clue buddy Microsoft is a "Big Evil and Heartless Company" that wants to rule the world. Where the hell have you been for the last couple decades.

Re:Worried about .Net? (2)

Dephex Twin (416238) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321186)

Just because Hailstorm was to be implemented as a service of .Net does not mean that Hailstorm == .Net.

Very true. The statement about .NET was unclear, but it was meant more along the lines of: "it's nice to see that Microsoft can't get everyone to go their way with their new strategies, as I'm worried about .NET."

Mac OS X (my OS of choice) has native Java support, and I'd really not like to see .NET overtake Java, especially since I don't even know if .NET will be available on Macs.

mark

Re:Worried about .Net? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321206)

I don't even know if .NET will be available on Macs

The specs for the IL are open for implementation on other systems (see Mono for Linux). It is possible that Mono will be ported to Macs. Technically, it is superior to Java in many ways. But what it makes up for in tech, it lacks in userbase. It's still in a Catch-22 situation, but it has the force of MS behind it which is always a bonus for those who are on board.

If Mono gets rolling, it's not out of the question that Macs may see a version of .Net too. The one problem is mustering the development effort needed to bring the code over from Linux.

Re:Worried about .Net? (2)

MagikSlinger (259969) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321204)

The way Microsoft was pushing .Net, you'd think it was! This misconception is as much Microsoft's fault (for encouraging people to think of Hailstorm and .Net as 'inseperable') as it is ours for not making that distinction.

Although I always knew it was separate; I was worried about the way Microsoft talked about implementing all of .Net's security services through it. Could you imagine the coding nightmare to make .Net not go through Hailstorm?

first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321041)

first post

Why? (-1, Troll)

Renraku (518261) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321044)

Why do all corporate projects have to have a violent or threatening name? I guess we're going to hear about a project soon known as, "VITAS" or something.

"Oh Really? (1, Interesting)

1010011010 (53039) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321045)

Just like "Bob" became "Clippy," I'm sure this thing will re-surface.

It's like when a dead guy is dumped in the river... he'll float to the surface eventually.

Re:"Oh Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321096)

Wow, someone else got this impression too. I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one to see the similarity in the insults to intelligence.

Re:"Oh Really? (1)

Phroggy (441) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321132)

Just like "Bob" became "Clippy," I'm sure this thing will re-surface.

Bob became Clippy? I thought Bob was a desktop shell thing, replacing Explorer? Bob was to word processing as MSN Explorer is to e-mail? Something along those lines?

Re:"Oh Really? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321162)

Someone mod this idiot down. Bob was a desktop shell and Clippy was an office assistant.

Re:"Oh Really? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321184)

And I am still amazed Clippy hasn't been ported to the Linux office suites yet. You lame fucks copy everything else.

Does this mean they are canning Passport (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321050)

I thought that Passport and Hailstorm (or Persona) were somehow inter-related. Does this mean they are dropping Passport as well. Passport scares me - so 'Big Brother' of Microsoft!

fgt!!!1 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321052)

fgt!!!1

Woohoo! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321054)

Just felt like saying that.

Is this post a "1" or what...?

MSN support? (1)

metalhed77 (250273) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321055)

i understand that MSN uses hailstorm, does that mean that it's reverting to whatever old tech it had? Or are they keeping the old hailstorm?

d00d... (2)

Mr.Ned (79679) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321056)

Dude, Michael, you're 10 days late :)

Questions the article doesn't answer (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321060)

  • What happens to passport?

    Microsoft was going to open up passport authentication to third-party ID servers via passport, right? Or am i just confused about that? Is that not happening anymore?

    Is microsoft abandoning their drive to make Passport the authentication mechanism for *everything*, Starbucks and such, or are they just going to drop the pretense of making it an open system?

  • The way i understood it, Hailstorm was a relatively decentralized technology as designed and didn't really DEPEND on microsoft being there to hold it all together. Right? Is it possible for people to take the hailstorm protocol, if they so desire, and set up an independent, decentralized hailstorm network that just happens to not be affiliated at all with microsoft?
  • Was GNOME MONO planning on implementing hailstorm as part of their .net workalike? Are they still going to?

(typo) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321079)

Microsoft was going to open up passport authentication to third-party ID servers via passport, right?

That was a typo. I meant to say "Microsoft was going to open up passport authentication to third party ID servers via Hailstorm, right?". Stupid me. I assume, hopefully, that everyone worked out what i meant. Sorry!

Re:Questions the article doesn't answer (2)

J. J. Ramsey (658) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321084)

"Was GNOME MONO planning on implementing hailstorm as part of their .net workalike? Are they still going to?"

I think Mono was mostly focused on implementing C#.

Re:Questions the article doesn't answer (1)

Juln (41313) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321119)

The article says Microsoft is now considering selling My Services to corporations in a traditional package form, rather than as a service. The companies would maintain the data for their own users.
Sounds like MS wants to design this system and sell it to other people to use, instead of implementing one by themselves for what Passport is designed to do. I like that. Microsfot shoudl be involved in making software, not stupid consumer money-sucking plans like becoming a middleman between me and my hospital.
My thoughts are that this is bewildering. They must be planning to reintroduce this idea with different PR later on, hoping it will be mroe accepted? Or, maybe this is part of their recent refocus and change of strategy, including the departure of Rick Belluzo. Hmm.. I don't like Ms much, but their 'Consumer' services like MSN and Hotmail are particularly annoying.

hotmail is annoying due it's crude BSD orgins (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321202)

Crappy old BSD is holding back hotmail from being a decent email service. While smart people have moved to Linux for e-mail, Snotmail has remained a hotbed of incompetant BSD morons. No wonder they SUCK so bad/1

For once, perhaps marketing was a good thing? (5, Interesting)

ShaunC (203807) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321061)

>It seems the companies didn't like having a middleman between them and the consumers

Gee, who'd have guessed. Microsoft, the company who's trying to incorporate every possible end-user application into their OS (thus killing the middleware, shareware, and even some commercial software industries) didn't see this coming? They couldn't imagine that other companies might have the same interests in mind? Aside from the obvious consumer objections, it should have been obvious to Microsoft from the get-go that other companies aren't going to trust them to keep track of userdata.

CBDTPA universally rejected and Hailstorm bites the dust. I have to say, today was a good day.

-s

Re:For once, perhaps marketing was a good thing? (1)

sidecut (126820) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321215)

Famous last words!

I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. Bill's pretty crafty. This'll probably be revived in a more sinister form next year.

The (1)

theolein (316044) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321063)

MS:0 The rest of us:1

On a more serious note, I don't think this will stop MS from coming out with a version2.0 of this sometime or another. Maybe next thing you know they'll embed it into the OS :)

Re:The (2)

flynt (248848) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321114)

MS:0 The rest of us:1


When did you start keeping score?

Re:The (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321212)

He also beat Michael Jordan at basketball.

Final Score: 2-0

Give up? (1)

QuodEratDemonstratum (569501) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321065)


Nah. There's lots of things in hailstorm that can be repackaged, reused, remarketed, etc.

Messaging - MS aren't going to give up on that.
Passport and wallet - MS will keep them less integrated for a while and pop them in somewhere else.
Directory services - this can be repackaged in a vendor neutral way.

Woohoo! (1)

High Jumbllama (412619) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321066)

Woohoo! With this and the represnetitives actually taking notice of people's opinions in reference to the CBDTPA. The tech world is a little better.

Yay - now get Messenger outta my face (3)

ryanvm (247662) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321068)

Maybe now they'll stop trying to cram Windows Messenger down everyone's throat (signing up gets you a Passport account). If you've used Windows XP you know what I'm talking about.

Re:Yay - now get Messenger outta my face (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321163)

hehe... if you are patient enough it eventually stops asking (after something like 5-10 times). Microsoft not providing a default option to uninstall the damn thing without resorting to hacking an .inf file is pretty annoying though.

On the other hand, I chat with peers and various clients on all the major IM services (AIM, MSN, ICQ, Yahoo via trillian [www.trillan.cc]) so having a passport account for MSN isn't a big deal for me. It even allows me to track support incidents for the products I've bought and registered with Microsoft.

Re:Yay - now get Messenger outta my face (5, Informative)

MrP- (45616) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321174)

Hopefully if you've used Windows XP you know about Start>Run>

RunDll32 advpack.dll,LaunchINFSection %windir%\INF\msmsgs.inf,BLC.Remove

to uninstall MSN Messenger completely.

Now if only they had this for mediaplayer 8 =(

damn bad timing (3, Insightful)

Alien54 (180860) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321069)

"They ran into the reality that many companies don't want any company between them and their customers," said David Smith, vice president for Internet services at the Gartner Group (news/quote), a computer industry consulting and research firm. [...] "There was incredible customer resistance," said a Microsoft .Net consultant, who spoke on the condition that he not be identified. Microsoft was unable to persuade either consumer companies or software developers that it had solved all of the privacy and security issues raised by the prospect of keeping personal information in a centralized repository, he said.

Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt [*cough*] it seems like they jumped the gun just a bit.

After all they are just now wrapping up the one month security review they started back at the beginning of february. yep, that is still going on.

So this is a case where vaporware was not being bought at all, working against them instead of working for them.

Re:damn bad timing (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321123)

It is official; Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying

No, Hail Yeah (1)

Izanagi (466436) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321071)

The site would need a disclaimer stating that a portion of your purchase goes directly to Microsoft.

.Net != "Hailstorm" (1, Insightful)

VividU (175339) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321076)

"As a person worried about the future with .NET..."

It's kinda sad to see how uninformed some people are about what .Net actually is.

It's been a long day in front of the PC so I'm not gonna bother explaining .NET for those who have'nt taken the trouble to learn what .NET truly is.

But, needless to say, it would be a huge mistake to think that this is somehow related to the success or failure of .NET as a whole.

Re:.Net != "Hailstorm" (5, Informative)

alyandon (163926) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321112)

http://arstechnica.com/paedia/n/net/net-1.html

For those that are interested in learning what .NET actual is and is not. The article gives a nice broad technical overview.

Re:.Net != "Hailstorm" (1)

jrothlis (223342) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321115)

It's kinda sad to see how uninformed some people are about what .Net actually is.

Amen brother! In fact, make that *.microsoft. Rabid anti-Microsoft sentiment doesn't cut it as a statement any longer (if it ever did).

Re:.Net != "Hailstorm" (4, Interesting)

The Raven (30575) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321133)

Microsoft has pretty consistently touted the networked XML web services part of the .NET framework as the 'best part'. Which I think is complete bullshit. The 'best part' about .NET is the fact that it is compiled, managed, sandboxed code with a truly awesome set of tools to play with. Improved data management, almost every object in it is serializable (you can save it to the HD in text or binary format, and reload it later, built in, no extra coding).

There are a lot of reasons to like .NET... in fact, the only reason I know of NOT to like .NET is the usual 'Windows Only' bullshit. But it's a MS product... that's a given.

Re:.Net != "Hailstorm" (4, Interesting)

Dephex Twin (416238) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321148)

There are a lot of reasons to like .NET... in fact, the only reason I know of NOT to like .NET is the usual 'Windows Only' bullshit. But it's a MS product... that's a given.

Well, as a Mac user for over 10 years, I'd rather not have .NET overtaking the market., and having to deal with another Windows-only situation.

(I submitted the article, BTW.)

Maybe that clarifies a bit...

mark

Re:.Net != "Hailstorm" (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321185)

Microsoft has a habit of porting their major applications (IE/Office) to the Mac platform and considering Microsoft released a shared source version of .NET for BSD (which OSX is based on to some degree) I wouldn't be shocked to hear about a .NET implementation for OSX in the future.

I disagree (2)

AdamBa (64128) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321151)

If .Net just winds up being another version of Java, that is a wasted opportunity. The goal should be to not have to worry about sandboxing the unknown code you bring down from a website to run on your machine -- because you don't do that. Instead, you make RPC calls to that machine. That is what the XML part is about.

What dumping Hailstorm shows is that Microsoft's plan to use Hailstorm to establish the .Net platform was bogus. They need to first get .Net established. Then they can worry about .Net "applications" like Hailstorm.

- adam

Re:.Net != "managed" && .Net != "sandboxed (1)

theolein (316044) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321188)

.Net allows you to use c and c++ and pointers, so much for sandboxed.

Re:.Net != "Hailstorm" (3, Insightful)

BigNachos (50202) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321141)

Oh really? According to the article, if you had bothered to read it:

The service, originally code-named Hailstorm and later renamed My Services, was to be the clearest example of the company's ambitious .Net strategy.

Re:.Net != "Hailstorm" (2)

ttyRazor (20815) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321150)

He was worried about it in the same way someone would be worried about being stuck with IE when they get windows.

!(Net !="Hailstorm") (1)

1015 (239564) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321197)

> It's kinda sad to see how uninformed some people are about what .Net actually is.

The good thing about .NET is that its so undefined that if someone complains, you can always claim he or she is "uninformed about what .NET *really* actually truly is".

Some Quotes from Bill Gates' Speak on Hailstorm (http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/speeches/2001/ 03-19hailstorm.asp):

"""We're excited to have this chance to talk about a key piece of our .NET strategy.... So today is a milestone for us... This is what we call a .NET building block service. In fact, it's probably the most important .NET building block service."""

My opionion on what .NET really is: SLOW

is this passport? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321078)

is hailstorm the same as passport? if not, what is the difference?

Re:is this passport? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321160)

One is a set of services ...
One is an authentication method ...

They're VERY different animals.

Cheers! They realized it was doomed from start... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321081)

Back when the Hailstorm idea was first announced ... No business or government agency that I dealt with was even slightly interested.

When Microsoft announced its requirement as part of future "e-business" and [forced] integration into their Office Suite and Windows workstation licenses the consumers and IT departments went crazy. Nobody liked the idea of giving Microsoft MORE control. After all, running IIS already gives "Hackers" (actually crackers) more than enough control ... Why would anyone want Microsoft to be even more powerful?

I can say though... EVERYONE that I know with an MCSE and/or works at a MCSP (MS Cert Solutions Provider) was in support of the Hailstorm idea.

I can't express it enough that I am happy for this failure :)

Lawdy, lawdy, we all is shittin in high cotton! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321083)

Thank you, Lawd Jesus.

Oh Lawdy we is eatin poke chops and 40s !

Hurrah! (1)

Saeger (456549) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321085)

Good news everyone! &lt/Farnsworth>

Today I hear that the SSSCA/CBDTPA looks like it'll fall flat on its face (this session), and now this bit of news. Baby Satan must be crying.

--

Middlemen (1)

Macrobat (318224) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321087)

It seems the companies didn't like having a middleman between them and the consumers.
Yay, rah and all that. But why doesn't something like this happen more often because consumers don't want a middleman between them and their companies?

Re:Middlemen (1)

chicoy (305673) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321173)

Because the greater majority of consumers are merely herded into a technology. Unfortunately, marketing plays a bigger role on our choices than technical merit. It's not so bad that most of us use the same technology. It's only bad when THAT company stifles competition (which is important) using anti-competitive tactics (which is illegal).

Personally, I don't trust M$ enough (surprise?) to use it for what they are proposing.

Not Convinced (1)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321088)

I am not seeing anything about this on the MSFT site. Go and look in the press section [microsoft.com] and check in case I am wrong.

And btw, what is the difference between Hailstorm and .NET anyway? I had always thought that they were the same.

Wonder how long till they give up on .net ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321089)

Wonder when they will give up on .net?

And wonder what they will move onto then -- paying dividends? Settlements to Sun and class action lawsuit plaintiffs?

The Sun will set on the ignoble empire....

uninformed , ignorant, both (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321090)

As a person worried about the future with .NET, this is a bit of a relief.

Yes, modular software design with interopable components and standard data storage techniques is an absolute nightmare! Somebody stop them!

Re:uninformed , ignorant, both (1)

hoover10001 (550647) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321144)

Not to mention easily understandable web services and remote APIs, not like COBRA, EDI, EJBs.

Definitly, Microsoft should be stopped!!! How dare they make programming easier.

Brian

Re:uninformed , ignorant, both (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321176)

The nerve! Making interroperability easier? SOAP? XML? UDDI? How dare they!

Hail? They asked for it! (1, Flamebait)

MavEtJu (241979) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321093)

What do you expect from a company which is relying on windows?

Perfect Headline (5, Funny)

Ilan Volow (539597) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321107)

Hailstorm fails to put dent in market.

Re:Perfect Headline (2, Insightful)

psamuels (64397) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321143)

Hailstorm fails to put dent in market.

Sheesh, I wish people like you would stop working for news media. I am a great supporter of the art of the pun, and the lame ones reporters always come up with really give the art a bad name. Please, oh please, can I read an article in InfoWorld about Java services that doesn't refer to some vendor "brewing" new solutions?

Well, Whaddya Know! (2)

istartedi (132515) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321108)

An "evil, aggressive, monopoly" can't sell stuff to people who don't want it. Will wonders never cease? Nevertheless, I think we need a few more years of litigation followed by government regulation to stop Hailstorm anyway. You know... just in case.

(close captioning for the sarcasm impaired: THAT WAS SARCASM. Thank-you.)

Hmm (2, Funny)

NiftyNews (537829) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321113)

Don't worry guys, I heard from a good inside source that Operation: CodeBloatHurricane is still in steady development...

The real reason it failed... (3, Funny)

Guido69 (513067) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321124)

Couldn't get it to run on Apache over BSD.

Monopoly Power (1, Flamebait)

JamesOfTheDesert (188356) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321125)

Once again, the Microsoft monopoly has shown that it can dictate market direction and consumer desires because it is an unrestrained megalith, responsible to no one.

Only massive government intervention can put an end to this evil domination.

Re:Monopoly Power (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321145)

But Hailstorm has FAILED! How does that equal MS is dictating the market direction?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND!?

My Services (1)

blanktek (177640) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321126)

I always thought it was peculiar that Microsoft was investigating selling a service rather than a product since they have traditionally been a product based company. Well they are trying it with MSN but I don't think that is such a great idea either. It's not like you get technical support from Microsoft for their products, you get a MCSE from a third party. Personally I would have expected them to offer some type of product that would allow customers to provide this type of functionality by themselves. Maybe Microsoft should stick with their strong point: developing software.

What comes after the hail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321127)

Ha! You think there is nothing to worry about now that the Hailstorm threat has past? As a meteorologist, I assure you that tornadoes pop up after the hail has past!

They'll just keep trying (3, Insightful)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321129)

If MS truly sees the market as being essential to their revenues, they'll just keep going until they borg out the other players. In fact, this is in line with their history of rejected/crappy first releases/attempts.

Now that's interesting (4, Informative)

bigmouth_strikes (224629) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321130)

This isn't exactly the first time Microsoft has chosen to scrap a project that has been so heavily advertised, but it's definitely one of the most prestigious ones they have cancelled.

Hailstorm/Persona was supposed to be a .NET service that "authenticates users, provides the ability to send alerts, and stores personal information, including contacts, e-mail, calendar, profile, lists, electronic wallet, physical location, document stores, application settings, favorite Web sites, devices owned, and preferences for receiving alerts." (from Microsoft)

I think the key problem for Microsoft is the following (from the article:) "They ran into the reality that many companies don't want any company between them and their customers,"

Bill and Steve are probably a bit surprised, not used to having people say No to them, especially not the big companies that they have started to court now that they have a consumer market monopoly. .NET is crucial to get penetration on the Big Market, i.e. mission critical business application software.

Hailstorm/Persona was seen by many as a reference implementation of .NET's, showing off its capabilities. Now it's going to be interesting to see how the industry acceptance for .NET evolves.

Out of curiosity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321146)

As a person worried about the future with .NET, this is a bit of a relief

What does this line have to do with anything? Hailstorm != .NET, as has already been pointed out.

However, I am curious. Why are you worried about the future with .NET? Do you feel that you aren't capable of understanding .NET and will be made redundant? Do you think that a competitor to Java will instantly cause you to keel over an die? Do you feel that .NET is SATAN (by the way, *nix has had SATAN for a while)? What is this worried shit all about?

Please mod me offtopic, since this comment has nothing at all to do with the story posted!

One degree of seperation? (2, Offtopic)

Peyna (14792) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321153)

Wasn't .NET supposed to give you 'one degree of seperation' according to all the commercials I saw on TV? Wouldn't that mean no middle man?

Persona? (2)

Tachys (445363) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321157)

When did they rename it Persona?

Hello. My name is Michael. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321165)

Hello, my name is Michael, and I'd like to share with you information about one of my favorite hobbies.

Fisting is one of the more extreme sexual acts that human beings perform. It is certainly one of the more dangerous. People who get into fisting will often describe it as their 'ultimate high', the best expression of their sexuality, 'the most sensuous act'. For others it is just 'serious raunch'. For the fistee, part of it is the physical sensation, which can be tremendous, particularly when the prostate is stimulated. For the fister, there is the tremendous kick of being inside someone so deeply, where you can feel the warmth and the strength of the pulse. For both parties, there is the mental thrill, the intimacy and the trust.

Trust is vital to fisting. If you want to be fisted you should be able to say, hand on heart, that you trust the fister to look after you. Some people can make that decision a few minutes after meeting. Others could take months. How long it takes to decide does not matter. The trust matters. Without that trust a fistee will find it difficult to relax. If he can't relax he either won't be able to take the fist or it will hurt badly. Either way it increases the risk of injury.

It has to be said that the best fisters are fistees as well

-- Michael S.

This time, M$ discovers that FUD is a 2edged sword (3, Insightful)

dcavanaugh (248349) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321167)

Their lack of credibility has finally caught up with them.

IMHO, Microsoft is incapable of leading any kind of initiative that requires third party support. That would require finding third parties that trust Microsoft -- a dubious proposition indeed.

Re:This time, M$ discovers that FUD is a 2edged sw (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321216)

If it's about commerce, Microsoft will not find any financial allies. No one wants to give up even a fraction of their commissions or processing fees - not the banks, not VISA, Mastercard, AMEX. This is also why B2B companies such as Ariba and Commerce One were doomed to fail.

Re:This time, M$ discovers that FUD is a 2edged sw (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3321217)

Yup, you are correct. Microsoft has certainly never done anything that required third party support. Nothing at all. Except make the dominant operating system(s). Or the dominant browser. Or the dominant media player.

Dumb question for the /. editors.... (2, Troll)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321178)

As a person worried about the future with .NET, this is a bit of a relief.

I assume that since this story wasn't rejected, that somehow the editors of Slashdot agree with this sentiment as expressed in the submission.

My question is this: if Slashdot editors really feel this way, then why is Slashdot advertizing Visual Studio .NET in its banner ads?

Just curious.

Microsoft Marketing (5, Insightful)

jjonte (145129) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321190)

I see Microsoft as 2 distinct groups.
  • Microsoft marketing
  • Microsoft Developers


Who do you think had the whole HailStorm idea? Marketing.

You can almost hear the conversation in the meeting
Marketing: "This will be great! People can log in from anywhere!"
Developers: "Yeah, that's technically possible."
Marketing: "Then Go! Go! Go!"

I imagine starting HailStorm and canceling HailStorm were topics of fiery debates inside the Fortress of Microsoft.

Finally a techno Exec probably said "This is stupid. Who is really going to sign up with us? Pay Microsoft to authenticate their users?"

One more thing....Figure out what .NET before you talk about it. FUD.

Registration (2, Offtopic)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321198)


Registration for NY Times articles drives me crazy. Call me a Karma Whore, but here's a RFC: NY Times reg.
  • username shall be firstword of 'submitter name'
  • password shall be firstword of 'headline.'

For example, registration in this case is username 'dephex' and pass 'microsoft'. Story submitters will please register according to these guidelines when they sumbit stories to /., and save us all a lot of hassle.

Does this violate the DMCA?

Wither the Liberty Alliance? (3, Interesting)

MagikSlinger (259969) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321213)

So now that their competition has gone away, what happens to the Liberty Alliance? Will they stick together, or each go their separate ways creating their own separate identity database schemes?

NY Times (0, Offtopic)

Stackis (308395) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321223)

What really sucks is that I can't read the freaking article until I fill out a form and join for free....and they'll never ever share any information w/anyone...

Hegelian Synthesis (1)

surfimp (446809) | more than 12 years ago | (#3321224)


"We're sort of in the Hegelian synthesis of figuring out where the products go once they've encountered the reality of the marketplace," said Charles Fitzgerald, Microsoft's general manager for platform strategy.

You go with your bad self, Microsoft! Throw enough shit against the wall and something's bound to stick! LOL!!!

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...