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Linux "is not piracy" Says Microsoft Lawyer

CmdrTaco posted more than 12 years ago | from the well-how-generous-of-them dept.

Microsoft 735

dipfan writes "Further to this Slashdot piece on the activities of the Business Software Alliance, the BBC reports on a European conference on piracy organised by the BSA. The good news is even Microsoft distinguishes between open source software and piracy; it quotes Microsoft's top in-house lawyer Brad Smith as saying: 'Linux is a way of developing software whereas piracy is copying.' The rest of the article is the usual panic-attack about the size of software piracy in general, and how this is holding back the software industry in Eastern Europe, according to Brad. Although the article notes the irony that despite all the piracy, software sales are forecast to grow from $50 billion in 2000 to about $90 billion by 2005."

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First Post? (-1, Offtopic)

SqueakRu (212186) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429591)

esp

full text (2, Informative)

trollercoaster (250101) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429592)

Jane Wakefield
BBC News Online technology staff
line
Tech industry leaders gathered in Brussels have reiterated the growing threat of piracy to the software industry in Europe.

The warning was issued at a conference, organised by the Business Software Alliance (BSA), which attracted delegates from firms such as Microsoft, Apple, Adobe and Symantec.

The meeting was told that in 2000 the software industry in Europe lost $3bn to pirates.

This figure is thought to be only a tiny fraction of the amount of piracy that is going on every day on the internet.

"We can't estimate how much piracy is on the net but in one day we found a million sites under a search for one of the codenames for pirated software," said a BSA spokesperson.

Unacceptable

For an industry that commits millions of pounds to research and development, and that contributes six times as much to Europe's GDP as the consumer goods industry, the levels are unacceptable, the BSA says.

"It is a risk most other businesses don't have to deal with - having 34% of your product stolen," BSA's president Robert Holleyman told the conference.

According to Microsoft lawyer Brad Smith, piracy has transformed the nature of the software industry in Europe.

"If there wasn't piracy there would be more software companies in Russia and Eastern Europe," he said.

Instead Russia has become an enclave for pirated software and Microsoft has recently declared a five-month amnesty for Russian and Ukrainian internet cafes to switch to legally licensed software.

Software pirates range from professional businessmen to teenagers selling illegal programmes from their bedrooms to organised criminals.

Organised crime is giving the BSA the biggest headache.

"Criminal organisations can sell software direct, as well as through retail channels," said Symantec lawyer Art Courville. "So, it is harder to monitor."

Tightening legislation

Europe has a greater rate of piracy than the US - around 34% compared with 25% in the US. Software leaders put this down in part to differing rules in Europe.

"Some countries in Europe had copyright laws dating back to the 1940s," pointed out Apple lawyer Peter Davies.

The last thing that you want is to create havens where the legislation is weaker

BSA spokesperson
That is about to change as the European Commission puts into force a directive intended to harmonise civil laws governing how courts deal with cases involving intellectual property.

All BSA members are hopeful that this will act as a deterrent.

"The last thing that you want is to create havens where the legislation is weaker," said a BSA spokesperson.

Change of attitude

There is also work to be done on educating the public about the importance of intellectual property, especially as a web counter-culture advocating free software, such as music downloads, continues to grow.

Open source software such as Linux is not seen as a threat to the work the BSA is doing, however.

"Linux is a way of developing software whereas piracy is copying," said Microsoft's Brad Smith.

He does believe that stopping the pirates could have a dramatic effect on the current pricing of software, however.

"As the legal market grows, there is more investment in new products and enhanced competition. A healthy market leads to more attractive prices for consumers," he said.

Despite the efforts of the pirates, the software industry in Europe is looking pretty healthy.

It is forecast to grow from £35bn in 2000 to £67bn by 2005.

Re:full text (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429654)

Well thanks for mirroring that. After all, its only posted on the BBC. The only fucking news server that was left standing during September 11th No really, that was a good heads up on the possible Slashdot effect. Fucktard.

Re:full text (0)

trollercoaster (250101) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429711)

You are very welcome. Please, in the future, refer to the terrorist attacks in September by the catchy term nine-one-one. Don't forget to reference NYC as "ground zero." Thanks and have a nice day.

Re:full text (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429772)

I would rather refer to it as "The day the U.S.A finally fucking woke up and realised that the rest of the fucking world hates them"

Calling it "nine-one-one" is also as retarded as the USian ass-backward date system. To the rest of the civalised world (The part of the world that fucking hates the U.S.A), the date was 11/09/01.

First post... (-1, Offtopic)

OgdEnigmaX (535667) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429594)

First post? I revel in the possible primacy of this post. Wheee!

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429599)

first post

In other news... (-1, Troll)

swordboy (472941) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429605)

Consensual Sex is not Rape!

Who paid to find this out?

Re:In other news... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429615)

Why does this have a score of 2? The trolls must be moderating today.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429648)

Someone moded this down!? Read the article before moding!

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429674)

What idiots modded that down?

In other news (0, Funny)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429609)

The sky is blue

Grass is gren

Voicemail is cool

Re:In other news (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429744)

I was going to say...

the sky is blue

water is wet

bill gates is satan

but you beat me to it

Ehh, Microsoft again... (0)

Local_h61 (208135) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429610)

Hmm, another plot to take over the world by microsoft... now surprising. I think General Bill Gates is up to something ;) Just look at all the microsoft news that are coming up.

Linux is not piracy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429617)

But it is very, very gay.

funny thing is (2, Insightful)

Jacer (574383) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429623)

for each new copy protection scheme, you'll have ten ways to circumvent it from release groups (fleet, razor, ect.) and most of the people who pirate would never buy the software in the first place (like me for instance) so, i'd be a wise choice on their part to drop the charade on fighting piracy, pocket the money they save by not actively persuing it, and enjoy the software growth

Re:funny thing is (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429749)

If you wouldn't by it then you shouldn't need to use it or pirate it in the first place. Curiousity is not a legal reason to break into someone's house is it ?

Duh... (0)

david z, horse guy (574893) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429626)

...how can you steal something that's free?

Was there a question? (1, Redundant)

rnb (471088) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429627)

I never realized it was possible to easily confuse open source and piracy. One says "take our software--please!" and the other says "take our software and die die die!"

Maybe I just haven't been following these things very closely, but those two things don't seem to be all that similar.

Re:Was there a question? (3, Insightful)

johnburton (21870) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429739)

Well even the GPL license states that you can't just copy the software without agreeing to the license agreement, and so it's pretty safe to assume that unless you know otherwise that it's "piracy" to just copy the software. That's true for both "commercial" and "free" software - you need to agree to the license (including paying any fees etc.) to be able to copy the software legally. As most "non-computer" people have little idea about how their software is actually licensed, it's probably fair to assume they don't know the difference between free software and pirated software. We might not like that level of ignorance, but I suspect it's true.

Re:Was there a question? (0)

timlyg (266415) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429769)

What an understatement

If Linux is piracy, then Microsoft is PIRACY TOO, and Even WORSE.

Shame on you! Mr. Lawyer.

News To Me (5, Funny)

rubinson (207525) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429630)

Linux is a way of developing software...

And all this time I was under the impression that Linux was an operating system kernel!

Re:News To Me (1)

quinto2000 (211211) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429725)

"We can't estimate how much piracy is on the net but in one day we found a million sites under a search for one of the codenames for pirated software," said a BSA spokesperson"
Perhaps "way of developing software" is BSA's codename for kernel.

Re:News To Me (2)

Dr. Awktagon (233360) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429799)

'Linux is a way of developing software whereas piracy is copying.'

And I always thought "piracy" was the illegal plundering of ships and boats. I love newspeak!

BSA (3, Informative)

DoctorPepper (92269) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429635)

I heard a radio commercial for the Business Software Aliance this morning while driving into work. This was a first in the Jacksonville, Florida area. I suppose the BSA will start harassing businesses in this area now.

Re:BSA (5, Interesting)

chill (34294) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429695)

Just now? They've been all over Orlando for the last year and a half. The company I used to work for got their HQ (Long Island City, NY) audited and scared the hell out of the Orlando office I had converted to about 1/3 Linux. They forked over big $$ for licenses they don't need, use or want -- just to avoid the hassle.

The BSA is nothing more than a legalized protection racket.

Re:BSA (3, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429697)

It's amazing how they come off all reasonable like on the radio, isn't it?

They ran ads back in January in the SF Bay Area (e.g. KCBS 740) about how important it is to keep a clean shop and comply by the grace period end. Nothing about imperial stormtroopers installing software on your PC's or Servers, or demanding audits which would be unthinkable in short timeframes, or even the extortion of large wads of cash and total capitulation as the only other option.

Still Unclear on MSFT's Strong Dislike of Linux? (5, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429636)

Here it is in a nutshell:

Ideas developed and shared undermine Intellectual Property. i.e. If you invented a better moustrap and GPL'd the design, then MSFT wouldn't be able get a patent on it, and thus license for big fees or lock any other developer or competitor out.

Having to include source to something they didn't invent and can't get along without is their problem and, like any reasonable minded person, don't want problems. They like to keep it simple, by owning or having license agreements on IP.

How anyone actually associates Linux with Piracy is beyond me and reflective of a lack of understanding the spirit of MSFT's gripes.

Re:Still Unclear on MSFT's Strong Dislike of Linux (3, Insightful)

elflord (9269) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429696)

How anyone actually associates Linux with Piracy is beyond me and reflective of a lack of understanding the spirit of MSFT's gripes.

The problem is that you have software like Napster that represents the freeloader movement getting confused with the free software movement. Popular websites like slashdot do more to hurt than to help with this problem. A lot of people are under the false impression that Linux and open source are about "free beer", and if you believe that, then it's not an enormous stretch to conclude that Linux is about piracy.

Re:Still Unclear on MSFT's Strong Dislike of Linux (1, Redundant)

flatrock (79357) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429699)

Microsoft is a Software company. They make their money selling software. They don't want to try selling support or hardware or some other product to fund their software development. They want to charge for the actuall product they sell rather than shift the cost of developing software on to some other product. That's why they don't like GPLed software. With GPL software you can't sell the software itself, the expenses of developing the software must be shifted elsewhere.

Re:Still Unclear on MSFT's Strong Dislike of Linux (2)

rutledjw (447990) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429735)

With GPL software you can't sell the software itself, the expenses of developing the software must be shifted elsewhere.
Sure you can! RedHat, SuSE, etc all sell Linux. You have to provide the SOURCE for the GPL'ed portions, that's what has to be provided. I don't think SuSE even provides dowloads of thier distro anymore.

They provide the source, but not the actual ISOs or other form of download. I consider myself pretty savvy when it comes to dealing with OSS software, and I wouldn't want to take on compiling all of the elements of a distro!

Minor difference? Am I nitpicking? Maybe, but it's still important!

Re:Still Unclear on MSFT's Strong Dislike of Linux (2)

jordan_a (139457) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429741)

That doesn't explain why they are on a holy war against all things GPL. If they don't want to use it, that's fine, but why bitch that nobody else should use it either?

Slightly offtopic (-1)

Burritos (535298) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429637)

If I do not own Windows (I run Red Hat and Debian on my boxes), is it illegal for me to download a DOS boot disk?

Piracy is copying? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429645)

"piracy is copying."

So 18th century pirates just boarded your ship, copied everything, and left?

Re:Piracy is copying? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429706)

Arr matey, we didna listen to th'fsckin church wit thar bullshit 'bout clonin'!

We cloned thar women'n thar booze'n then let 'em go. Arr, it worked out good, me harties, cause they'd come back th'next month and we'd do it 'gain!

Linux ok. MS-OS free machines not (5, Funny)

bildstorm (129924) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429650)

Is it just me or does this contradict things?

They tell us we can't buy machines without an OS. Then they say that we're not allowed to remove the OS. Oh, and we can't give away the machine without a Microsoft OS either.

Oh, and you can be sure that they think that a machine with Linux preinstalled is an OS-free machine.

These guys play both sides so much you'd swear they were U.S. negotiators in the Middle East. Well, granted, Microsoft has been more successful. Bill Gates to solve the crisis in the West Bank???

Re:Linux ok. MS-OS free machines not (-1, Troll)

adam613 (449819) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429722)

Bill Gates to solve the crisis in the West Bank???

Now THAT is something I'd like to see. Which side would he take? The Israelis, who simply do not get it, or the Palestinians who have a monopoly on God?

(since nobody ever understands what I'm referring to, this thing would have been over years ago if the Israelis knew how to manipulate world opinion like the other countries in the Middle East. And Muslims have a long history of destroying everyone else's holy places when they occupy a new land, because their god is the ONLY god. The Jews and Christians don't because their god is the biggest, not the only.)

eh? (1, Offtopic)

Danse (1026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429757)

The Jews and Christians don't because their god is the biggest, not the only.

Show me one place where Christians or Jews acknowledge the possible existance of any god but their own.

Re:Linux ok. MS-OS free machines not (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429782)

Jews, Christians, Muslims, and members of Baha'i Faith all worship the same god--the god of Abraham.

Also, Muslims have historically been much more peaceful than Christians: who took the Jews into their homes during the inquisitions and Crusades?

Dont forget... (4, Funny)

Bob McCown (8411) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429651)

..standard includes:

#include "StandardWhineAboutExpensiveSoftware.h"
#include "WhineAboutOnlyUsingItOnce.h"
#include "RantAboutNeedingPhotoshopInsteadOfGimp.h"

etc...

Well Duh.... (3, Insightful)

adam613 (449819) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429652)

Of course Linux isn't piracy. It would be extraordinarily difficult for me to pirate RedHat when I can get it legally from their website.

This is another one of those "We'll look like we're compromising on this minor point so that people can buy into our other major point" things. Linux may not be piracy, but it is viral and anti-capitalist and bad for consumers because it's supported by hobbyists with PHDs in CS rather than a major company whose tech support knows as much as their average supportee (is that a word?).

What is the market for Linux like in Europe? Does M$ have any more reason to be worried over there than they do here?

(sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm an American so I have no clue what goes on outside of my own country)

Re:Well Duh.... (1)

iamwoodyjones (562550) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429746)

M$ has every reason to be worried in every market. Just as a word is used so often, that it loses its copyright and becomes public domain so will OS's. It's bleeping edge apps that will be the only things without GPL equivalents.

Re:Well Duh.... (2, Informative)

quinto2000 (211211) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429758)

This is another one of those "We'll look like we're compromising on this minor point so that people can buy into our other major point" things.
It's bigger than that. All that MSFT needs to do is associate the word "Linux" with "piracy," and the innuendo is enough to scare off many businesses.

And in Europe, yes, Linux is much more popular. A number of people don't want to rely on an American company for their OS.

Re:Well Duh.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429762)

I believe Microsoft has a lot more to worry about in Europe than in America. Lots of Goverments and Corps are thinking seriously about switching, mostly because of the new and fscked licensing schemes of Microsoft. The Linux desktop has gotten far enough that this is possible, only I don't know what office software they will use, likely it'll be Sun or Open Office.

Re:Well Duh.... (3, Interesting)

minion (162631) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429819)

They have much more to loose in Europe than here. When our government brought Microsoft to court, every country that uses Microsoft software took notice. Why? Because here you have a company, who's products you use to make your business function, under scrunity for illegal business practices, under foreign laws. That worried many counties. Legal ramifications that you have absolutely no control over.

To those people, Open Source software just got a lot more appealing, because a foreign power can't take it away from you.

Atoms != Electrons (1, Interesting)

asmithmd1 (239950) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429655)

I know it has been said before, but this quote makes me mad.

"It is a risk most other businesses don't have to deal with - having 34% of your product stolen," BSA's president Robert Holleyman told the conference.

Why do they insist on equating an illegal copy with a stolen copy. The "thief" in the stolen copy case has not deprived the owner of the copyright of anything, the victim still has everything he had before the "theft"

Re:Atoms != Electrons (2, Insightful)

56ker (566853) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429719)

I would say that part of the secret behind Microsoft's success is that there are plenty of people out there running pirate versions of Windows on their desktop. Without these - Microsoft would have far less of a monopoly.

Re:Atoms != Electrons (0)

First_In_Hell (549585) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429737)

I think the stealing aspect refers to the potential sale of the software. Perhaps without any way to get it for free people would have no other choice but to buy it. That is not to say that all of the 34% of stolen copies they referred to would have been purchased, but I am sure that some of them would have resorted to it.

You also have to realize the pirated copies that are then sold on a street corner for 75% lower than retail value.

The point is the potentail sales went over to people getting free copies or pirated copies at a high discount and in each case the developer of the software gets nothing.

Re:Atoms != Electrons (1)

Minstrel78 (28344) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429738)

Yep, this is my biggest gripe with the spin on copyright infringement of software (piracy for you media folks). Sure, piracy doesn't help the software creators any, but it absolutely does not equate to the theft of physical product.

The way they cook their numbers is by potential lost sales of the product; each person illegally copying a piece of software didn't buy it, so a sale is lost. This is only half as bad as the impact of the theft of a physical product. If you steal an apple from my fruit stand, not only do I not get to sell the apple to you, because you've stolen it (loss of one sale), but now I can't sell that apple to another person either (loss of another sale).

Re:Atoms != Electrons (1)

PW2 (410411) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429751)

Why do they insist on equating an illegal copy with a stolen copy?

They probably feel they need to justify their existance this way.

Re:Atoms != Electrons (4, Insightful)

spectecjr (31235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429752)

Why do they insist on equating an illegal copy with a stolen copy. The "thief" in the stolen copy case has not deprived the owner of the copyright of anything, the victim still has everything he had before the "theft"

Here we go - in very tiny words for you, ok?

You go into a store. Software Product A is sitting on the shelf for $10.

You go around to your friend's house. Software Product A is copied to you for free.

Producer of Software Product A has now lost a $10 sale.

Whether you would have bought it for $10 or not is irrelevant - you made a copy, so it obviously has value to you.

Therefore, you are depriving the software company of their profit on that product.

If you disagree with this, then fine, disagree with the software company too - and DON'T USE or COPY THEIR PRODUCT.

Simon

Re:Atoms != Electrons (1)

MrFredBloggs (529276) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429795)

Yeah, thats all very well, but where is the `theft` and where is the `piracy`. Both these words already have meanings in dictionaries which have nothing in common with the definitions as implied in the article - indeed in almost every discussion about software `piracy`.

You might just as well compare murder with breaking someones windows cd.
"ooh, look at him - hes guilty of software murder! Murderer!!"

Re:Atoms != Electrons (1, Flamebait)

spectecjr (31235) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429818)

Yeah, thats all very well, but where is the `theft` and where is the `piracy`. Both these words already have meanings in dictionaries which have nothing in common with the definitions as implied in the article - indeed in almost every discussion about software `piracy`.

*sigh* I bet you bitch about the difference between hacker/cracker too.

The theft is in the copying. You have made/taken a copy which you were not allowed to do so. Therefore you have taken the data without their permission. Given that you have something which belongs to someone else which you didn't have before, and you have it without their permission, that is theft.

Simon

Software Sales ARE growing, well the PRICE is! (2, Informative)

AKAJack (31058) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429657)

I know that our cost for MS software is going up at least 25% because of their new requirements for "software assurance" (basically upgrade insurance.) Our company bought into the FUD of the Microsoftie sales guy. That and no more upgrade licenses available as of July will cause our software costs to rise dramatically just to maintain the status quo.

So I'm not really sure if I belive that "sales" are increasing. In all reality the cost of standard software is going up and therefore so are "sales."

wesley willis (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429658)

rock over london, rock on chicago
goatse.cx: spreading knownledge in the ass end of cyberspace

Re:wesley willis (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429779)

goatse.cx: spreading
yes, yes it is

knownledge
knownledge?

Wrong assertion from the lawyers (5, Insightful)

bokmann (323771) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429659)

No... Piracy should be defined as 'breaking the license the software was issued under'.

If they get away with defining 'piracy'=='copying', even in people's perceptions, the main distribution method of linux will be severely hampered. I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone receive a burnt CD with 'Red Hat xx' scribbled with a magic marker, and they ask something like, "is this legal?". It just 'feels' like you are doing something dirty.

It is only illegal to copy it if you have specifically given up that right. As the GPL says, "Most lices are created with the purpose of taking away your rights..."

another wrong assertion (4, Informative)

stevenj (9583) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429798)

It is only illegal to copy it if you have specifically given up that right. As the GPL says, "Most [licences] are created with the purpose of taking away your rights..."

You've got that backwards. It is only legal to copy a copyrighted work (other than for fair use) if you've been specifically granted that right by a license (e.g. the GPL). (IANAL)

The default under copyright law is to forbid copying; most shrink-wrap "licenses" try to restrict your rights beyond the ordinary powers of copyright.

Re:Wrong assertion from the lawyers (1)

Nightpaw (18207) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429812)

It is only illegal to copy it if you have specifically given up that right. As the GPL says, "Most lices are created with the purpose of taking away your rights..."

I thought they were there to make your head itch.

Re:Wrong assertion from the lawyers (2)

bokmann (323771) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429827)

In fact, now that I think about it, the BSA's role is 'enforcing the license to prevent piracy'... Maybe someone should ask their help the next time someone takes something that is GPL'ed and tries to turn it into a closed-source product... wouldn't that be 'making illegal copies'? The copies don't follow the license agreement the person agreed to...

No wonder (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429661)

No wonder he says that, GPL is backed by the copyright law. And Microsoft supports the copyright law. Hence, GPL is a virus...

I think their numbers may be off (4, Interesting)

quinto2000 (211211) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429665)

"We can't estimate how much piracy is on the net but in one day we found a million sites under a search for one of the codenames for pirated software," said a BSA spokesperson"
They forgot to mention that all of the sites had the same broken links to servers that had only porn popups, not warez.

And wow, it sure took them a long time to figure out the "codeword" for pirated software :)

Someone needs to call shenannigans... (3, Informative)

Danse (1026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429787)

I can do a search for "warez" right now and probably come up with at least a million sites. These guys are so full of shit it should be criminal. They are deliberately misleading people about this issue. So, is anyone standing up to call them on it? Who has the clout to be heard there?

Re:I think their numbers may be off (3, Funny)

TheTomcat (53158) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429802)

Google:

Searched the web for pirated software. Results 1 - 10 of about 73,600. Search took 0.11 seconds.

Did you mean: warez

---

Searched the web for warez. Results 1 - 10 of about 4,110,000. Search took 0.07 seconds.

I's an ebil haxxor.

---

S

A whole day? (5, Funny)

JediTrainer (314273) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429808)

It took them a whole day?

Geez. A quick Google search on 'warez' [google.ca] yields not merely a million, but 4,290,000 sites!

Search took 0.04 seconds. How much are they paying these guys?

Re:I think their numbers may be off (1)

Zwack (27039) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429822)

Wow, Only 1 million in a day... Google gives me over 4 million hits in a few seconds...

I guess they were using a different "codeword"

Z.

orwellian (1)

koekepeer (197127) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429672)

software sales are forecast to grow from $50 billion in 2000 to about $90 billion by 2005

sounds like a typical case of doublespeak to me

If there is anything that is viral and bad: (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429679)

It is Microsoft software. Period. End of story.

420 Lewis !!!

Eastern Europe? (3, Insightful)

ymgve (457563) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429683)

If anything, I believe piracy has progressed the software industry there, atleast the MS-centric part of it. If they didn't have illegal copies of Windows and VC++ to develop on, there is no way they'd be able to afford the real thing. So in a way, pirated software helps Microsoft, because then more people are able to develop Windows applications.

Re:Eastern Europe? (3, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429767)

Your right.
You know how MS got so popular? People took copies home from work, installed it on ther machines so they could 'work' from home.

My 98 system went down this weekend, lost everything. I went to reinstall Ofice 98. Turns out there where in the box that got lost when we moved. You think I'm going to buy my next copy?

Grammar flame (1)

kubrick (27291) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429773)

If anything, I believe piracy has progressed the software industry there

'Progress' is an intransitive verb. Using it transitively (i.e. taking an object) makes it sound like part of a business report, and thus that sentence effectively loses all meaning, as no-one believes business reports :)

Make up your minds... (3, Funny)

Drachemorder (549870) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429684)

Make up your mind, Microsoft! Is it piracy, or is it just a virus?

Sheesh. Are there any insulting comparisons Microsoft hasn't yet made?

Re:Make up your minds... (1)

xenode (570497) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429788)

Well, at least they haven't said Linux is like Windows.

in other news today (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429687)

-The Sun Rose This Morning. Again!
-Gravity Works
-Light Found to Move Very, Very Fast.

My thoughts on the article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429688)

I think the $50 Billion - $90 Billion is grossly exaggerated. I think about anyone out there would say the market is stagnant, halted, or even in REVERSE for software. I have all this outdated crap software that I never ever ever will touch ever again for the rest of my life.. And you think I'm about to pay $60 for another software package? ha.. yeah right. This is why the market is crashing.. people don't and *won't* pay. ;)

Lower prices? Yeah, right. (3, Insightful)

Chewie (24912) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429689)

My favorite part was the quote from the story:
He does believe that stopping the pirates could have a dramatic effect on the current pricing of software, however. "As the legal market grows, there is more investment in new products and enhanced competition. A healthy market leads to more attractive prices for consumers," he said.
Anyone want to wager what the odds of BSA members dropping their prices will be? I'm guessing something involving a snowball and Hell.

Re:Lower prices? Yeah, right. (2)

phloon (519605) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429707)

You don't think it'll lower prices? Remember when music started coming out on CDs? They said that would lower the price of music recordings...

They were so right.......

Re:Lower prices? Yeah, right. (1)

kubrick (27291) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429796)

Also, enhanced competition? This in an industry in which the major play for any new company is 'get bought by Microsoft'?

Open source: the solution to piracy (2)

mikosullivan (320993) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429694)

It's darn nice of Microsoft to admit that it's not stealing if someone gives it to you. What they and the BSA are still dancing around is that open source is one of the very best solutions to piracy. An organization that uses only open source won't have to waste its time and money maintaining license compliance. Of course, this doesn't help software sellers, but in the spirit of the very capitalism they claim to support: that's their problem. The companies who make money in some way besides selling software (i.e. most of us) aren't obliged to provide welfare to Microsoft.

New Acronym? (2, Interesting)

ocie (6659) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429698)

software sales are forecast to grow from $50 billion in 2000 to about $90 billion by 2005

What do you expect. Software is write-once sell-many (WOSM)


at least people are getting closer . . . (1)

jmt9581 (554192) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429701)

"Linux is a way of developing software whereas piracy is copying." At least people are getting a little closer to using hackers' terms correctly, last time I checked Linux is a kernel for an operating system that uses tools developed mostly for the public domain. But it's good to know that not even people at Microsoft think that Linux == piracy.

Eastern Europe ?! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429704)

"If there wasn't piracy there would be more software companies in Russia and Eastern Europe,"

This has nothing to do with the piracy. This guy knows how is in E Europe or Russia ? There are no money for food, let alone software. The water and heating for a small apartment (for one month) is more than half of a monthly salary for a University teacher. Do you resonably expect any individual to buy ANY software ? An for the companies, if they had money, they would first give more money to their employes (the usual monthly salary beeing 40-60 $).

Wow he looks good for his age. (1)

QuaZar666 (164830) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429715)

According to the picture he looks maybe 50 (if that) but according to the test he is at least 115 years old.

"Smith graduated summa cum laude from Princeton University, where he received the Class of 1901 Medal"

(i know its a type)

What happened to real news? (-1, Offtopic)

Mulletproof (513805) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429716)

What is it with all the "duh" articals involving MS and why are they even being posted? Yes, it's no surprise Gates lied and we know Linux isn't Piracy. Would any more Slash editors like to post the obvious? "MS admits to using point and click interface!" Mod me down, bay-bee!

Opportunity cost (4, Insightful)

Kris Warkentin (15136) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429724)

Lots of money will continue to be made in software simply because piracy is a pain in the tuckus. If you come right down to it, most software hasn't really gotten that much more expensive over the years.

Take games for example. They still usually cost around $50 bucks, just like they have for years. I pay $50 dollars for my tax program every year now because, after all, what's $50 bucks? 10 years ago it cost the same and we used to get 5 people together and pay $10 bucks each. Now we just buy it because it's more of a nuisance to pirate than it is to just pony up the cash.

Games are relatively cheap too. If you use a pirated version, half the time you're having problems like, "I need the latest 1.09 patch for such and such bug/feature but it breaks my 1.07 pirated no-cd version". It's just easier to buy it than it is to go surfing warez sites/kazaa, etc. My time is more valuable than that.....surfing for warez takes time away from gaming. ;-)

Re:Opportunity cost (2)

Danse (1026) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429825)

Everything else even remotely related to computers has gotten drastically cheaper over the years. Everything except Microsoft's software. It has actually gotten more expensive. Gee... I wonder why that is... could it be... monopoly?!

Linux Piracy numbers (2, Funny)

fabiolrs (536338) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429728)

In other news: "Mozilla piracy has grown 12% last year according to MS sources. Also, GIMP piracy has also grown considerably."

Come on MS... come on... grow up!

Duh. (2)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429729)

Even Gates never failed to make the distinction. Linux is a cancer, remember, not piracy.

Besides, at least the pirates use windows. Us linux users are much more lowlife, in their opinion.

It's so nice to have their sanction! (3, Funny)

Tri0de (182282) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429730)

In other news Micro$oft spokesman says "we magnanimously concede that breathing oxygen is not, in and of itself, stealing from us".

To me, the big brotherish quote was:

"Criminal organisations can sell software direct, as well as through retail channels," said Symantec lawyer Art Courville. "So, it is harder to monitor."

yep- can't have that ol' free market in the way, somebody might be doing something unlawful

Well... (2, Offtopic)

Sarcasmooo! (267601) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429732)

It may not be piracy, but it sure stole my heart.

aawwwwww...

Easter Europe (5, Interesting)

pmancini (20121) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429736)

The remark about piracy holding Eastern Europe back is partially right. In Russia, Ukraine and other states you can pick up just about any software for next to nothing. Imagine paying $1.80US for Windows XP Professional? The piracy rings there are so good you get it fully cracked, you get it in nice packaging and if you need help they can sell you a ton of books that have been scanned into PDF format also on CD.

The problem isn't piracy. It is a lack of respect or even awareness of Intellectual Property in my opinion. There is no respect for it at all, it seems, in these countries. Their legislatures are just now starting to examine laws concerning it. I am not sure which industry is bigger: China's piracy rings or Russia's. In China the piracy goes to aid specific Red Army units (in fact the rings are allegedly controled by Army Generals).

It is an interesting problem. While we want to business with these countries, lack of protections makes it nearly impossible. At least under the rules and structure of Capitalism. While those rules can lead to our current situation where we have an agressively bad and dangerous monopoly controlled by Bill Gates, they generally are good and promote sane business practices. My hope is that Eastern Europe reforms. With China, I don't see and end coming to their ways of doing business.

Piracy works for Microsoft (2)

totierne (56891) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429743)

Microsoft would secretly love to carpetbomb Eastern Europe, Russia, China etc. with their software.

People learn to use Microsoft and end up paying later, or encouraging other people to use microsoft through a network effect ('everyone uses Word/Excel'). If Microsoft software was available only at full price they would be more likely to try other alternative. The main battle is for mindshare not dollars.

Piracy allows microsoft to effectively sell cheap, without being accused of dumping.

Well, at least they are making that clear (5, Interesting)

JudasBlue (409332) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429755)

This is probably off topic, but I feel the need to share it.

It is easy for those of us hip to the open source movement to laugh at this crap from MS, even though we know that some end users and such might be taken in by it. But the depths to which MS FUD penetrates the general IT community is bloody incredible to me.

Yesterday I was talking with a mid-level QA engineer from Apple. This guy is working on a very complex product. He knows how to code.

We start talking about software development, and I mention some things I am working on, mostly centered on Linux. At which point he says:

"That's cool, but anything you do on Linux you would have to give away for free, right?"

Contrary to what everyone is thinking, this guy isn't stupid. He isn't even technically inept. He works on a complex project and knows what he is doing in his problem domain.

Anything that MS might say about Linux and open source that isn't totally negative should be lauded, because a LOT more people than some of us realize, people we think should know better, apparently are buying pretty much everything MS is trying to spread about open source and Linux.

Yeah, industry (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429761)

For Microsoft the "industry" probably consists of sales centers. I'm romanian, Microsoft employs lots of romanian software developers, but not in Romania. They have to go to the USA.

Don't get me wrong: piracy is bad. On the other hand, Microsoft should keep a low profile when talking about software industry in Eastern Europe.

Gotta Love It (1, Offtopic)

4of12 (97621) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429778)

That backhanded clarification is just what I needed!

"There is no truth to the rumours that Slashdot editors were denying that they were visited by authorities during a recent crackdown on child pornography on the internet."

Probably we can expect further helpful educational tidbits that properly conform to Political Advertisement 101 Guidelines for drive by association with bad company.

[Watch me go!]

"The misguided expenditure of taxpayer money to persecute an American success story has nothing whatsoever to do with the purchasing power of special interests such as Sun Microsystems, Oracle and AOL/TW that are envious of Microsoft's leadership position."
I think I left out Terrorism® and Working Families®, but otherwise it's pretty easy to write crap like this.

Piracy is good for Big Business (1)

Steveftoth (78419) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429790)

It is good for Big Business because it encourages vendor lock in. Just look at the most popular pirated packages, Windows, Photoshop, Office, 3DStudio Max. The only people who are really hurt by this are people who need the money to eat. Most 'real' work is done on licenced copies of the software. There's always going to be a rogue program or two around the office, but it seems to me that more pirating is done on off hours at home.

Many of their 'losses' they claim are really not losses since many pirates don't actually use many of the programs they download. They just have them to have them, they are collectors. (Collect the entire Photoshop set version 1-10)

Pirating has always existed, will always exist and in general I think helps the software industry. A copy is not as good as the original and if a company is only selling you a cd of information, with no value added by actually purchasing the program from them (nice manual, good support, etc), then they probably won't be in business for long anyway.

Pass the word, it's time to changeover to Linux! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429791)

Sample text to post to any windows web forum.

No reason to run Windows anymore. No reason to keep paying Billy Gates his ransom. Mandrake Linux 8.2 is free and easy to use, not virus prone, doesn't crash and....
LOOKS AND WORKS just like windows, plus....
"SOT, a Linux-distributor is offering SOT Office, a free productivity suite partly based on OpenOffice, it is fully compatible with MS Office and StarOffice."
More and more games are available now from major companies, all the hardware out there is pretty much supported now, and Linux comes with a lot of software already installed, nothing to buy!
E-mail programs, web browsers and more are already installed! It's time to make the switch, and it's easy.
You can FTP the CD-ROMs for free from this FTP site [uni-bayreuth.de] or other mirrors [linux-mandrake.com]
(make sure you use binary mode in your FTP transfer)

KDE is "Windows" for the Linux OS, it's easy and is just like windows, but with all the software already installed for you.
And there's always the Lindows project, but it's not ready yet. lindows [lindows.com]
The OpenOffice story is at slashdot [slashdot.org] or the SOT site [sot.com]
And a good newbie site is HERE [linuxnewbie.com]

Why is this important to Windows users? One reason is if the RIAA has their way, Windows will be forced to make any MP3 type players copyright protected. Your only choice for freedom will be with Linux and open source.
Windows always crashes and you get used to it. I remember when I ran Windows all the time I got used to the crashes and saving things every 2 minutes just in case. Now I leave things overnight and come back and it's still there. Even if a particular program crashes, the OS doesn't! I have seen Win 2000 crash blue screen too so it's not any better. $300 for NT isn't a good choice either.
I spend several hours a week helping my friends with problems from viruses and locked up IE (spamware popups and hidden registry startups) and have been slowly changing them over to Linux.
Linux doesn't get those viruses, I download them all the time just to look them over in a binary editor, people think I am crazy but they can't affect Linux. Viruses are very hard to make work on Linux, open source developers are security minded. What does that say about the Windows developers? Why run a OS that threatens your privacy and security?
"Wine" for Linux will let you run some windows software, it is what Lindows is doing, and DOS runs fine on it. When "wine" crashes, you restart the WINDOW! it's funny!
You have total control with Linux, you can run it 24/7 without worry, it's more hacker proof than any other OS and it's what the WWW is built on! Browsing and transfers are faster and the TCP/IP stack is designed better. Software RAID is possible and easy to do, hardware cards are supported. With Mandrake sharing a dial up connection over your private LAN is easy as pressing a few buttons.
You can relax now, no more worries about spyware, crashes, restarts, viruses, hackers, firewalls, strange popups and a screwed up registry. There is no "registry" required in Linux, what a stupid concept that was. Spyware would be very hard to sneak past people since it's open source.
Your "root" directory is protected, unlike windows, linux protects it's main "system" files from "user" files. No more calls to your "computer guy" in the middle of the night.
I have personally installed Mandrake on 3 laptops and many, many different PCs, old and new. It is very, very easy now that 8.2 mandrake is out. I haven't paid for a software program in over 4 years now. I used to buy one every few months for Windows.
After showing people Linux on my laptop they all want to try it out and are amazed at how easy the conversion was because it's just like windows!
Give it a try! Linux programs are waiting for you to try them out! Spread the word! Pass some Linux CDs to your friends. It's time.

Think of the Children! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429792)

Although the article notes the irony that despite all the piracy, software sales are forecast to grow from $50 billion in 2000 to about $90 billion by 2005.

EGADS! Just imagine how much money could be made if we clamped down on piracy! $92 billion? $93?

stick after stick shoved right (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#3429804)

It was an official Looking email alright, It said I could win a home entertainment system! I minimized the Email and went to I won and sure enough they ahd a contest for the exact same entertainment system, But Why.. Why, I thought, Would they send me this email stateing If I register I could win, I mean, I was already a member and they knew that! I went back to The Origonal Email, It had a Link, " Click here to enter" I held My Cursor over it and The string Had a Bunch of Nubers in it, / Iwon/ Contest and Other varoius symbols, It had no where in it, My Id, I went ahead and clicked it to see what would happen, To see If Norton Would pick it up, It was'nt a Virus, It was'nt a link to a virus either, It was a sign On screen, Had a place for my I won Name and password, Check this Out, My name Is Not My Screen name, Or any part, But, In the Name Box It said My screen name for aol.

I Typed In a false Name, I typed in a fals password, Guess what happened? YUP! It went straight to an I won Looking page and Told Me
congratulations I was entered!

Do You see where this is sooooo Freaking easy? See How they do it? If I had typed in my Id Name and password, and It was the ONE, And I stress
ONE, That I used for everything, well, They could Just try'em all. They Might Take a few hours But They would eventually get a hit and then what?

Yup! They would max It out immeadiatly and get all they could. I would veture to say that about 50% Of AOL and Other Internet account holders use The ONE Password for everything Deal to make it simple for them to rememeber, I bet ya It's More than 50% But If It were 50%, The hackers
would have it easy for a very long time, They could make thousands Daily.

This Is soooo Messed up It's Unbelieveable, It's hard To believe that this kind of fraud is going on unpunished. The Traceability Is there But Nobody is folowing through with it, You can turn people in all day long, It does'nt help. They are getting Rich and we are Getting Stick after Stick Shoved right in our ass.

I am Just About To give up myself, I want to get out and go back to the way Life used to be Before I ever knew how to turn one of these damn things on. Make one last Deal on Ebay and sell off my system, Yup! Money Orders Only! Bajajjaaaaaa LOL

Take Care And watch your back cause those bad Guys are'nt just gaining on you dude, They are Right there in you stuff just waiting to get another nickle out of your pocket.

In other news... (1)

spruce (454842) | more than 12 years ago | (#3429824)

In a recent interview Satan confirmed that the use of Windows does not automatically condemn you to an eternity of hellfire.

"Well as it turns out, most of my subjects were Windows users, but there's no direct relationship. However with the MS purchase of evil [bbspot.com] who knows what's in store for the future."
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