Brazilian Government Continues Push For Free Software 295
rmello writes "The 'Legislative Free Software Week' in Brazil ended last week, drawing 2,000 people, including 3 ministers and presidents of congress and senate. Computerworld reports (in Portuguese, translation by submitter), among other things, that 1) House of Representatives will NOT renew MS-Office licenses, but is looking at free software alternatives, 2) The free software parliamentary front was announced in congress, 3) The e-mail system of the house of representatives is being replaced by a free software one, 4) The federal government is looking at concrete measures to stimulate free software as means of saving money and stimulating the national software industry.
Looks like free software is here to stay in Brazil. Kudos to the many Brazilian free software groups working to make such victories a reality."
not renewing... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:not renewing... (Score:4, Informative)
That's the standard term. What else are they supposed to say?
does that mean that until they decide to go with open source alternatives (or not), that they will be illegally using the software?
No. Existing licenses don't expire prematurely just because someone publicly announces that they won't be renewing.
I think it's pretty clear what they are saying: they aren't going to give Microsoft any more money, and they intend to be using an open source before the issue comes up.
Re:not renewing... (Score:2)
If that's the case, good for them. Just because the U.S. is trapped under the thumbs of the likes of Microsoft and SCO doesn't mean the rest of the world needs to be.
Re:not renewing... (Score:3, Funny)
Just not renew licenses which, suprisingly enough, is even still legal in the U.S. despite all of the efforts to the contrary.
Discount (Score:3, Insightful)
Rus
Re:So in other words.... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It said FREE SOFTWARE, not open source (Score:5, Informative)
That's the catch: the original article has "livre" which means "freedom", as in speech.
Re:not renewing... (Score:2)
It's a step in the right direction (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:It's a step in the right direction (Score:5, Insightful)
Farming out developement of other software has got to be cheaper than paying M$ obscene liscensing fees. Furthermore, when you hire contractors, you can get a solution which fits better than an out of the package software-suite. At the beginning, they may have to send some of that work overseas, but they will probably find local talent pretty quickly.
Microsoft's reaction will be ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Microsoft's reaction will be ? (Score:2, Interesting)
If they send Ballmer, Brazil might prohibit proprietary software altogether, so vehement was Villanueva's response (and so effective is Ballmer).
Next up, Texas!
Re:Microsoft's reaction will be ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft's reaction will be ? (Score:3, Informative)
---
Yeah, we are almost broke.
Re:Microsoft's reaction will be ? (Score:2)
The only effective counter offer that Microsoft could offer is a guarantee that 100% of the revenues it receives in Brazil are spent in Brazil.
Microsoft Sure Screwed the Pooch (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft really screwed the pooch on this one.
Whether this is an example of third world brilliance outthinking their arrogant American counterparts (getting Microsoft to effectively subsidize their move to free software by selling them such inexpensive, limited time licenses, thereby decreasing their costs of transition dramatically), or just countries getting incredibly lucky as a result of Redmond's panic, I don't know. Probably a combination (not to mention examples of outright corruption, with corrupt politicians being replaced by less corrupt ones who revive these initiatives, examples of short sighted politicans balking when it comes time to pay the piper and renew licenses, instead renewing the free software initiatives they tabled earlier, and who knows how many other variations on this theme).
In any event, the irony is delicious. We as a community lamented the short sightedness of so many third world countries selling out to Microsoft in exchange for cheap licenses that would expire in a few years, when in fact Microsoft was being far too clever for their own good, helping to underwrite all these nations' transition to freeer platforms. They squandered their last chance to get licensing fees from these nations, and effectively did nothing to prevent them from transitioning away from their product anyway.
Or at least some of these nations, like Thailand and Brazil. Who knows how it will play out elsewhere, but for now I'm chortling with delicious glee.
It's not static, Microsoft won't sit still (Score:4, Insightful)
John.
Special Interest groups (Score:5, Insightful)
You always have interest groups pushing for one solution or another. In the case of free software, it's tens of thousands of people who will have jobs they wouldn't have otherwise.
Switching systems like this requires more people (more jobs) for training and support. And even though the cost for the governament doesn't dramatically shrink, the money, not only stays in Brazil, but also creates thousands of new jobs.
It's about time the politicians of the world understand that important part of using free software!
Re:So in other words.... (Score:5, Funny)
Chances are though that Brazillian officials are much more likely to spend their embezzled money in Brazil than Microsoft programmers are.
Brazil is the oddest place on the planet (Score:5, Informative)
Rich and poor, very defined. Kids huffing gas, and police squads killing kids.
Big celebrations and they are fun.
Free software supporting.
Hospitals going defunct, and leaving medical equipment that is radioactive on the streets up for grabs. No one knowing any better putting stuff in thier mouths cause it looks cool.
Free software supporting.
Hmm. I hope it saves them some money, then I hope they help thier people.
Anyone from Brazil please weigh in on this.
Re:Brazil is the oddest place on the planet (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Brazil is the oddest place on the planet (Score:2)
Re:Brazil is the oddest place on the planet (Score:5, Informative)
they buy the lawmakers who pass laws that help them get richer and richer.
in my opinion and experience the country doesnt grow because of the catholic church and what it does to poor people...
i am from brazil btw...
From Brasil, too, but... (Score:4, Informative)
Not different from US, UK, Spain...
Didn't look up what "huffing gas" means, but it has being some time now since last killing squads (rogue police groups) made a hit on minors here.
This, like the last one, happened in the 1980's. More care is being taken, now.
I seriously doubt this would be different in any USian or EUian ghetto and, believe me, I know some pretty hard EU ghettos.
Someone else in this thread pointed out: renew licenses Vs. feed people is an easy decision to make, right?
And it is about feeding the people, cause we are in a deep recession; if you start developing free software, knowledge is formed and stays in the country, the money goes to people that has the knowledge here and pumps the economy up.
I didn't get quite what you mean, yuri82. What exactly the CC does, that hinders the country growth?
Re:From Brasil, too, but... (Score:2)
Re:Brazil is the oddest place on the planet (Score:5, Insightful)
Except that the government is supporting free software.
Re:Brazil is the oddest place on the planet (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Brazil is the oddest place on the planet (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't mean globalization, btw, just how the cards have been dealt in the past two or three decades, that happens to have been screwing us up. But I'm generally optimistic. I think we are getting better, and, most importantely, more of our children are getting a basic education, which is essential to the advancement of standards of living.
As for whose at fault for our problems, that's really simple: us. We
Start of a change (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, lets see "PAY LICENSES" or "FEED PEOPLE"
Ok the argument is not always about feeding the people. Paying license fees is not what third world countries want to do. I mention this as a start because it will shift to other things other than software, eg Drugs Patents, Copyrights, etc. The West better be paying attention, because people like the RIAA say, "Why do you need bread when you can eat cake!"
Re:Start of a change (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Start of a change (Score:5, Interesting)
Companies have begun to offer large prizes (4 years average programmer salary) for 3D games which run on Linux, and have fast tracked the certification of an "official" OS and office suite for the country, which have been developed by an arm of the gov't, NECTEC. My school will get free promotion from them when we open our OS/FS training courses next term.
The Thai goverment hopes to free itself from outside control. The national anthem says "None are allowed to oppress and destroy our independence." Thais are very proud of their colony-free heritage, and look at foreign software as part of that.
Re:Start of a change (Score:5, Interesting)
The move to snub Microsoft comes after the software giant asked the Shanghai Education Commission to buy licenses for the office suite on every school computer. Antipiracy officials earlier raided several schools in the city for using pirated versions of the software, according to the report.
In this case they did not go with open source but the competing product cost half as much.
People all over the world are getting a clue except the American PHBs who are not only sticking with MS but some are actually paying licencing fees to SCO.
Makes you wonder.
Re:Start of a change (Score:5, Interesting)
I say be careful what you wish for... I like Open Source. I make my money with Open Source, because earlier in the 90's I saw that Closed source was coming to an end. Or at least the "big bucks" was coming to an end
However, this trend by other countries is good for Open Source. It does not however translate to money in my pocket with trade. I am ok with this because I figured out a way to get around this.
Many people will not be ok with this and this is what is happening right now. Witness SCO. SCO is only digging the grave for all business in the US. Do you REALLY think SCO has a snow ball's chance in hell trying to force their "rights" in Brazil, or China? Of course greed by SCO is fogging the big picture issue.
Likewise with patents and other copyright issues. Like the guy with the patent against Microsoft. Or the RIAA. These companies are only damaging themselves and the market they manage. They are deluding themselves into thinking that if they can only last a couple of more years everything will go back to normal.
No times have changed, and the West better a clue REAL fast or the West will have to start looking for handouts from the "third" world nations.
Re:Start of a change (Score:2, Interesting)
The US has an abundance of natural resources. It has lots of trees, minerals, fertile soil and water. Granted all those resources are being abused but there is enough left to last for at least another generation if not two. If we cut back even a little on consumption they might last for decades. Most of the rest of world has already eaten through it's natural reso
Re:Start of a change (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, USA has some natural resources, but you are very far away from being able to sustain your living standard on your own. This is not just about having iron ore in the mountains ; have you any idea how much each and every American has to cut back on consumption in order to get down to European levels, not to mention eg. China or others? You guys have a completely grotesque overconsumption of things like energy and clean water.
"Most of the rest of world has already eaten through it's natural resources and will be buying them from us for a long time."
Hmm, yes, right. Try to read something about this subject. Why do you think your rich-boy's-club president and his thugs chose to attack Iraq - a country with huge oil reserves? Because their hearts were bleeding for all those poor Iraqis who had to go without American style demockery?
"Combine that with the enourmous amount of captial that has accumulated in this country and you will realize that we will not be lining up for handouts anytime soon."
Your enormous wealth is based almost entirely on American military power and presence in the world. As long as the US Dollar is the de facto standard currency for most international trade, it is easy for American companies to borrow money whereas other countries are at a disadvantage; in effect America controls the world market that way. However, the Dollar is losing out to eg. the Chinese RMB and the Euro (OPEC have been talking about trading in Euro - another very good reason for Bush to go to war against Iraq, as a warning).
On top of this most American companies and individuals are in deep debt; so I would say that America's incredibly fabulous wealth is just a bit fictitious. You may find yourselves looking for handouts before you think.
How does MS raid Chinese schools? (Score:2)
I would have thought that these schools would not have had any reason whatsoever to let MS (or "antipiracy officials" in general) anywhere near their systems. If anything, I would have thought the Chinese education system was about as immune to this type of treatment as any group of people on the planet, courtesy of a long history of piracy being tolerated in China and the Chinese education system not taking a pro-A
Re:Start of a change (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, lets see "PAY LICENSES" or "FEED PEOPLE"
We Europeans are facing the same problem. It is not licenses vs. food, but something like licenses vs. education, health care, rebuilding the country after 50 years of communist rule, ... These are on the priority list after food. Most of the software license fees go to US. Same applies to many copyrighted things, like movies and music.
I think Germany (or actually Munich) is showing the way to Europeans.
Paying license fees is not what third world countries want to do. I mention this as a start because it will shift to other things other than software ...
The people in poor countries have stopped paying license fees a long time ago. Visit any bazaar in China or Russia to check what is their attitude to Copyright. It is more about ability, not willingness. Governments can't hide behind the corner, the DVD pirates can. They are much easier to sue, and software vendors have their lobbyists. In practice, software vendors has US government, WTO, and other powerful supporters. Corruption is also an issue. Finally, getting any major change through a government is very slow. Changing anything in a democracy takes at least five years.
I am advocating for free software in a political party (about 10% election support at local level, 3rd largest). At first, most people were not interested. In January 2002 we had to buy a new computer, and I suggested we try OpenOffice before buying the MS version. "It's free, you won't lose a dime." And we never bought MS Office. At September 2002, we suggested that the local government should consider OpenOffice. (Before that, we had a few words on free software, mainly to keep me silent). Now, we are suggesting that again. Office 97 (yes, we are poor and backward) "dies" in January 2005, so maybe we have a chance of getting this through next year. After that, migration takes at least one year.
The savings are in TCO not just license fees (Score:2, Informative)
Good for companies like Sun and the FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
So German government stated they were making the switch in 2001, China is making a switch, who's next. Could spell big trouble for MS' revenue considering China, and Brazil are just HUGE. This could be a break for Sun Microsystems though if they would do something with Solaris under x86 ala Linux or BSD. (freely downloadable I meant to say).
3) The e-mail system of the house of representatives is being replaced by a free software one,
Damnit, with the mention of another hole found in Sendmail I hope it wasn't that.
4) The federal government is looking at concrete measures to stimulate free software as means of saving money and stimulating the national software industry.
rants page): Let's say that OS #1 costs a small company $499.99 for about 10 licenses, we'll call this company Foobar Incorporated. Foobar incorporated is now getting pounded with about 20 virii per year, and it takes their administrators about 20 minutes per machine to update the operating system every time something new causes chaos on the network.
Either way you decide to do the math, it is going to be costly. Place 2 administrators in Foobar Inc., and have them patch up the system at a total cost of 100 minutes per person for the update. 20 minutes per machine multiplied by 10 machines divided by two administrators, we'll now give these administrators $10.00 per hour and the cost for this one instance is $33.33 for this one instance. $666.66 per year, for this one company. So how many small companies are there? Should we be generous and say 10 million? $6,666,660,000.00 in lost revenue.
These figures are only on viruses, not program crashes, not system downtime, strictly salary. Sure I know some geek wizard is going to scrutinize this be my guest... There are pros and cons to free software being you won't necessarily receive great tech support for it as opposed to some (note I said some*) companies tech support.
Now before someone unloads the holy grail of follow ups, I said *some* tech support. We all know that certain unnamed companies blow when it comes to tech support, but remember not everyone is going to browse through sites like kernel.org, nor jump on IRC for support. Many endusers still prefer pretty to geek.
</rant>
Re:Good for companies like Sun and the FSF (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, I must of missed that news because the internet was down due to two massive Microsoft Windows worms. I'll be sure and tell the sendmail authors how I feel when I can finally open up my firewall to allow incoming mail again.
Re:Good for companies like Sun and the FSF (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would Sun want to make Solaris freely available? Why would Brasil want to buy more proprietary hardware from the US? You`ve missed the whole point of what Brasil is trying to do here: native support, native distro, native jobs and IT industry.
Even open source leaders like Red Hat, who do make source code available, stand to benefit little immediately: the native-blood syndrome is too strong.
I would imagine that Brasil is more than willing to go `low-tech` on some of their infrastructure as long as it is free or homegrown: they don`t need Lotus notes, email will do; they don`t need Oracle 9i, PostGreSQL will do, etc.
Re:Good for companies like Sun and the FSF (Score:2)
If Sol made Solaris free, eventually somewhere down the line hardware will hav to be purchased as you can only upgrade for so long. Sun could benefit by offering low cost hardware to accomodate some of the fundamentals of Brazil like their gov. for their infrastructure, and their Univ. which in turn as many have seen could possibly produce those willing to give back to Sun via way of pro
Re:Good for companies like Sun and the FSF (Score:3, Informative)
AMD has been selling their (32 and) 64-bit Opteron for a while now. Linux and BSD are both geared up to support this. Eg., NetBSD already has their amd64 port fully functional, and slated to ship in the next NetBSD release, FreeBSD has it running and supports it as a Tier 2 platform. Some LInux vendors have also promised support. There is e
Re:Good for companies like Sun and the FSF (Score:3, Insightful)
It doesn't matter whether it's freely downloadable, if it's not free as in OSS. Using Solaris would not be a strategic move, it would be a temporary measure in the migration path to Linux.
Building systems on Solaris is better than building them on Windows (because of the open standards), but using Solaris on a productivity desktop is just pure idiocy.
Re:Good for companies like Sun and the FSF (Score:2)
Damnit, with the mention of another hole found in Sendmail I hope it wasn't that.
Are you talking about the DNS map problem? A problem with a feature that nobody uses, in versions of sendmail (less than 8.12.9) that nobody should be using.
Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
So... all M$ would have to do would be to distribute free copies of their software to the Brazilian government in order to solve this, correct?
If I were Ballmer and Co., I would take this as opportunity to nip this in the bud. But I'm not evil. [sarcasm] And I hope that M$ doesn't read this and steal my idea... because you just know that they've never done this before. [/sarcasm]
Re:Well... (Score:2, Informative)
Actually no. The issue of FS in Brazil, altough being shown to the media as "cutting costs", is also largely political.
Until recently, Brazil's politics scenario was largely dominated by right-wing parties, with the only significant left wing party, the "Worker's Party" (PT), housing all kinds of people who wanted to protest against "the system" in one way or anot
Re:Well... (Score:2)
You mean "give the man a fish" instead of giving him the means to fish? No, if Brazil truly wanted to use the savings from not paying Microsoft licenses to stimulate its own economy.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Before you know it, Microsoft have given every government on the planet free software. How long before large businesses and even individuals start making the same threats?
Microsoft will continue to
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Why so happy? (Score:2, Funny)
The only direct advantage of this is that the knowledge that open source hobbyist learnt on his spare time can now be implemented in the department... Wait, I take back that statement... The poor bastard will then have to support all the other ignorant users.
"Mauricio, how do I install this flash plugin on Mozilla?"
"Mauricio,
Why so negative? (Score:5, Insightful)
You should rather ask yourself: Why am I so negative?
Re:Why so negative? (Score:2)
I would like to apologise to you regarding the failure on my part to compose my prior post within <rant class="joke"> tags.
I hope this has not inconvenient you in any way as well as clouding your rosy view that money saved from MS (a.k.a. the abusive monopoly behemoth) will go to everything pro-Free Software and/or pro-Open Source... because as we all know, Brazillians have nothing else to do with their money anyway since the massive loan default incident of 2002.
Yours mistakenly.
Re:Why so happy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anything that adds to the userbase helps linux. More users mean more and better drivers and less IE only web site. Also some small percentage of those users will actually contribute back. If they spawn another Miguel or two the world would be a better place.
Why? (Score:2)
Country where people are encouraged to share (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean what advantages does this development give to Linux users?
It makes Brazil one of those nice places where an individual can develop things independently and share their work, and are encouraged to, legally?
Unlike the USA, Japan and (as of next week) EU, where individuals and small businesses are selectively persecuted, and always under threat.
There they have a system called "patents on virtually every widely used idea", most of which are harmless but a few are selectively enforced. Much like
Seeing the future without a subscription. (Score:3, Insightful)
Will Brazil truly pull a Munich [slashdot.org], or are they just playing the game Thailand thinks it won [osnews.com] with Microsoft.
Re:Seeing the future without a subscription. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Seeing the future without a subscription. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not so sure about that.
Either Microsoft will keep cutting prices [...] with the resulting reduced margins and hopefully dropping profitability
Thats short term. They might not be earning their full potential, but they aren't bleeding. And in return for that mild payment, they buy the lucrative lockin of a relatively virgin market. This is no loss on their part, this is investing into cultivating a stable market.
or people will see through them and they'll lose customers.
If they
Re:Seeing the future without a subscription. (Score:4, Interesting)
The rhetoric around this issue in Latin America has included "paying tribute", "software imperialism" and other politically loaded phrases. When it becomes a matter of national honor, and when M$ is seen as the greedy absentee landlord sucking profits from the country and giving little in return ... it's over.
Pics (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.gulms.org/fotos/SL_congresso/ [gulms.org].
Great news for all of us (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone asked "Why so happy?". Well now there will be many people working in parallel to use open source software in a large enterprise environment, and don't tell me you have to speak English to be a (good) hacker. People will solve problems, submit patches and improvements (if welcomed), and develop new software which we can use and leverage too.
Also it should divert money that would have gone to the richest man in the world, to pay programmers, and to encourage young people to study programming, starting with open source as a given not as an eccentricism. It is entirely possible that you will get an environment in Brazil in which Windows becomes a minority. Could you imagine what kind of things would be possible when the magnifying power of open source is combined with even a small budget? I'm looking forward to hearing stories about Brazil in the future where it becomes famous for a "can-do" attitude (and they actually do it!), when solutions are shared by many and developers are able to enjoy exponential successes.
If this can be documented and nurtured it just might suggest that there is another path for human development in general - capitalism is great but for some sociological or economic reason it hasn't done well in Brazil. Maybe open source can be used in programming and many other fields to codify knowledge and give Brazilians a boost so the money they do spend is most effectively disposed.
I think this goes beyond the general idea that the network is stronger the more nodes it has. We are talking about people who are going to be getting tools put in their hands, the equivalent of an investment of millions or billions of dollars worth of software, and they are going to attack problems and solve them by both tapping into support from the world at an individual level and by recognizing that problems can indeed be solved. The only things I would like to add are that food, sanitation, safety, machines, and free telecom are prerequisites for this. If the government has anybody with a clue (sounds like they do!) they will figure out a way to provide free highspeed internet connectivity. Conceivably this could be done around libraries or community centers, perhaps someone from Brazil or other countries with such experiences can provide some ideas. I am very interested in hearing what the result of this would be if started from Brazilian values, perhaps it could be refreshing.
One thing I can tell you is that one mature person educated in the world can make a difference. A journalist friend of mine has been able to build a hospital, orphanage, newspaper, and a hundred schools in Cambodia from donations around the world. I would guess that Brazil is far, far ahead of Cambodia, at least they have still got their brainpower among the living! Let's help them!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but how is this going to stimulate the industry if there is no money to be made for the software "companies"? Surely this will damage the software industry?
The money doesn't disappear (Score:3, Insightful)
At the end of the day, lower prices for software may or may not help the software industry. But they definitely help every other industry that purchases software.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Unless by "software industry" you mean only "on the shelf" software companies (which, in Brazil, are mostly companies from other countries), no way, but even if you do...
Brazil has already some companies on the open source paradigm of software industry (support, local solutions, etc). A big example is Conectiva, which even shi
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Whether or not you realize it the software industry, and music and movie industry, contribute huge amounts of money to the US economy - i'm too lazy to look up the links - but without those industrys the US' trade deficit would be much higher than it already is, and it's already too high.
The Brazilian government, and all those who switch to linux and other free alte
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:2)
Somewhere along the line so idiot thought it would be a good idea to make the rest of the world be America's "IP" bitches without considering that the rest of the world would object. Perhaps its time for Americans to wake up and smell the (Brazilian) coffee before it's too late.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:2)
Also, if you looked at the trade deficit/surplus figures between the US and Brazil my *guess* would be that american puts in about as much money into brazil as we take.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree. It's a complete waste of money to send license-money to the USA for programs that could be better and cheaper made at home.
Take Germany as an example. There's around 80 million people, and around 50 million computers. The average cost for Windows and Office alone is something like 400.
If you assume the average user buys a new version of software from MS every 3 years on the average, then this works out as 6.6 billion a year.
For this money you could hire about 130.000 full time programmers permanently. Read that again.
It gets worse: Even if you *did* need 130.000 programmers permanently to keep Linux and OpenOffice competitive for the tasks you need, it would *still* be preferable to hire them, rather than buy the software from MS.
You see, those programmers would pay taxes. They would also do most of their shopping in Germany, paying VAT. They'd hire german carpenters and electricians to build them houses etc etc.
In reality, it'd probably be cheaper and better for the local economy of Germany to hire a quarter million coders permanently instead of buying the software from MS.
Something to think about indeed.
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
It would be far better for just about any country to invest
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but..You are wrong. (Score:2)
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:3, Interesting)
If the Brazilian gov't wants customized/tailored software, it can get it now - cheap, because *anyone* can bid on the contract to do the source modification and release things back into the public domain.
It may not be millions of dollar-contracts and beef barrels any more (thank god), more likely it'll be small, fast, light development companies that spring up (new industry forming) to take on the role of 'custom software development' using t
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong, but.. (Score:5, Interesting)
However, the shrinkwrap applications that are in common use account for a disproportionate amount of software spending, and by encouraging the use of open source one would free up huge amounts of money otherwise spent on license fees that could be spent on hiring people to adapt various software packages to your specific conditions.
For Brazil that would be hugely beneficial, as most money for shrinkwrap software end up in the US, while software engineers hired to add features to open source software would be more likely to be local.
But even though the US stand to lose short term, it too stand to lose longer term as open source over time reduce the cost to develop software (because of the increasing amount of software that can be used as building blocks free of charge). Looking at the history of software development, this is unlikely to reduce the number of available jobs for software engineers overall - in fact it is likely to make more jobs available, as cheaper software development means significantly more projects become cost effective.
It's like car manufacturing - Ford massively automated the process, but that didn't put people making cars out of work, it massively grew the industry since the lower cost lead to lower prices, which led to a huge increase in demand.
A very sensible plan... (Score:4, Insightful)
Using and promoting free software stimulates local know-how and will generate many jobs.
This is just one more sign that by electing their president Lula, the Brazilian people got the government they deserve (in a positive sense).
Let's see on september 1 (the vote on the Software Patents Directive) if we Europeans can we be equally happy with our Parliament...
Free the SPRING GIS package (Score:3, Interesting)
Perhaps, they might start looking in their own backyard and have their National Institute for Space Research (a goverment backed organization) open source the excellant SPRING GIS package from what is already a free download, but no source. Works on Linux/Solaris and Windows, and is rather easier to use than GRASS.
http://www.dpi.inpe.br/spring/english/ [dpi.inpe.br]Cheap (Score:3, Insightful)
Independent non-US Software Industries (Score:4, Insightful)
Thus, a healthy European software industrie based on OSS is needed in order to be independent of the US.
I truly hope that our parliaments will realize this before it is too late.
The future of IT is becoming clear... (Score:4, Interesting)
On the other hand, the rest of the world with an eye on the budget, choosing for free software and eventually developing their own. India, Brazil, China, and eventually Africa too. Countries where innovation continues because it's a matter of survival, and where the corporations can't impose their US laws because governments are incapable and unwilling to enforce them.
Why does the US still suffer from a fragmented and pathetically old-fashioned telephone system while even the most war-striken, bankrupt nations on earth already have one or two national GSM networks? Because where there is nothing, people can create.
Similarly, the IT industry in the West has moved to a phase of terminal stagnation, and will eventually be reduced to a simple service industry, with the innovation being done in those places that today choose open source.
No coincidence that another article today mentioned Microsoft's gradual takeover of the US's CompSci departments. Innovation through Windows? Now that's funny!
The big picture (Score:3, Insightful)
Brazil. In many ways, it is perhaps better to see it as the culmination of
a process that has being going on a long time. There have already been free
software initiatives at many levels in this the fifth largest country in the
world. Most notable of these is in the state of Rio Grande do Sul, which
hosts each year a major free software event [softwarelivre.org]. I also know that in Brasilia itself they have been
funding free software development to support [interlegis.gov.br], for example, information
exchange between all the different legislatures in Brazil.
Moreover, the support for free software would seem to extend across
political parties. A workshop I attended in Sao Paulo last year, to
encourage cooperation between Latin America and the EU in the IT was
explicitly asked to be about free software by the administration preceding
that of Lula da Silva. This means the Brazilians already have a wealth of
experience in using free software and for finding mechanisms to fund its
development. It also means that there are already a lot of firms and
administrations that have committed to this process. Some of the comments
here have suggested that Microsoft must merely flash out its cheque book to
block the push for free software. I think it would have to flash out many
cheque books at many levels and would step on the toes of many local
interests.
Two other aspects of free software in Brazil do not seem to have received
much attention. The first is the wealth of good free software programmers
already in Brazil. Several key Zope developers come from Brazil and the
first language into which the popular content management system Plone was
localised was Brazilian Portuguese. A lot of good work is also going on in
free software GIS systems such as SPRING.
The second aspect is represented by the presence in the congress of the
Minister of Culture, Gilberto Gil. I note that the title of the congress
mentions "free software" and not "open source". The interest is not just in
economics or software engineering, it is also cultural and extends into
other areas, such as the support for creative commons [creativecommons.org]
licenses.
Viva Brazil! Viva o software livre!
for-the-people.org [for-the-people.org]
Brazil does have some local IT knowledge (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Brazil does have some local IT knowledge (Score:3, Insightful)
A country that uses closed software is not free. (Score:4, Informative)
A country that uses proprietary, closed-source software is a country that is not free. A country that uses proprietary, closed-source software is partly under control of the seller of the software and of government of the country in which the seller is located.
Why is it that the government of Brazil is quicker than the government of the United States to realize the necessity of running a government with open source software?
To understand this, it may help to understand other differences between Brazil and the United States. One country is more primitive in some ways and less developed than the other. For example:
The United States government has bombed 24 countries in the years since the second world war. The Brazilian government has bombed none.
The United States government supports culture. It has an organization called the National Endowment for the Arts. Apparently that is the group that puts on those unbelievably boring shows in the U.S. capitol. The Brazilian government supports culture. The culture minister, Gilberto Gil [jsonline.com], is a musician and singer who is famous throughout the world.
Officials of a large city in one country visited the officials of another country to learn how to run a city in a more humanistic way: Officials of the city of New York visited the officials of Curitiba, Brazil, to learn the mayor's methods for making a city an enjoyable place to live.
Brazilians are generally slim and good-looking. Americans are the most overweight populace that has ever existed. This seems to be because the Brazilians are more skilled at making themselves happy than Americans. Definitely Americans eat when they are not hungry, and indication of unhappiness.
The city of Rio de Janeiro has a reputation for violence. The homicide rate is 43 per 100,000 people. The city of Washington, D.C, the capitol of the United States, does not have a reputation for violence. The homicide rate in Washington, D.C. is approximately 77 per 100,000 population, close to double that of Rio.
The United States government has powerful organizations that operate in an almost completely secret way as a world-wide police force, forcing U.S. government ideas and culture on other countries. For example, there is the NSA, CIA, and FBI, and some agencies whose existence is almost a secret from U.S. citizens. The Brazilian government is far from perfect, but it has nothing comparable.
The Brazilian culture is far from perfect. For example, Brazilians generally don't like to plan, so things that require planning are often done poorly. But in the areas above and in other areas, things are better in Brazil.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Too lazy to click? Read it below: (Score:5, Insightful)
> desires of rob malda for young boys, not only
> approving pro-free software laws
C'mon, can't you even READ it before moderating?
*sigh*
Re:This plan is brilliant!!!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
Contrary to poplular opinion, it costs money to create, distribute, and train people to use free software. The obvious benefit for Brazilians is that the money earned from writing it stays in Brazil rather than fattening the already bulging coffers of a certain U.S. monopoly.
Re:Ah but there is no need to pay anyone. (Score:4, Insightful)
They will need to programmers and administrators to maintain and run the systems. But, even if they didn't it still money that stays in Brazil and out of Bill Gate's pockets.
Re:This plan is brilliant!!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is how I think it may stimulate the economy a bit. Brazil's population was 155.82 million in 1995 according to their Embassy's stats [brazil.org.uk], so for argument's sake let's say it still is 155 million. Let's take one percent and say that they buy software. This would be 1,550,000 buying say MS at a very low price of 50.00 (US). That would equal $77,500,000.00
Now what if instead of spending that money on MS bs, they took that money and opened up research labs to develop products of their own. Wouldn't you say somewhere down the line, they would be better off if they could make revenue by saving on software as opposed to throwing it out the window. So how does it stimulate the economy? Well money could be shifted elsewhere that's how, it doesn't necessarily have to be using some notion that free software itself is going to generate revenue now. It sure does however make sense to make the switch. Maybe your sense of perception isn't on a business level who knows.
Re:This plan is brilliant!!!!! (Score:2)
Let's instead take 1% of the Brazillian population and say that they will begin to donate their time to help with the existing free projects. That will mean 1,550,000 new testers, documenters (in Portuguese, no less!) and coders!
Re:This plan is brilliant!!!!! (Score:2)
If they spend it locally, on hiring developers to improve open source products or on entirely other things (like education etc.), they can spend it multiple times: Part of it will be taxed as it is spent (VAT/sales tax, income tax on salaries etc.), and the government will spend the money
i'll see your rant and raise you two (Score:4, Informative)
No one would be happy, but the tone sounds as if you would like to have something of a monopoly on a product. Let's change this to cars for a second. We all like cars and some of us depend on it for livelihood. You see car A that does everything you want, has been loyal to you for years, etc. You stick with it. Even if car B suddenly comes out touting the same trustworthiness would you be quick to dump car A for car B? I would hope not. Now supposing car B is better, it's cheaper, more efficient, would you keep throwing your money away? I would hope not.
Would you jump up and down in sheer happiness for them before that trip to the umnemployment office? Or would the grim reality of just losing a customer set in? Then how would you feel when Brazil starting importing THEIR products here?
Before I answer this let me just snip this out of your comments: products are just that, products. Capitalism is the selling of products for financial gain. Financial gain is what pays employees You've managed to answer your own thread without even realizing it did you know that. Capitalism sometimes keeps companies on their toes, and searching for the next big thing. Would you rather have innovations spawned or the same old boring deck of cards? Refer to my car example since I think it's as plain as black and white. Now if you want my thoughts on another subject oh say... Buy American? I'll take the bait on that too. It is my money and I will spend it on what works for me. Whether or not people agree with this statement it is my hard earned money, so jumping into the car theme again, if a Japanese car works better than an American one, then I'm all for it.
bendito (Score:2)
If America is allowing this to happen (unfair trade) practices, why would I be upset at Brasil? I would be upset that my country didn't do right to correct the issue. I don't want to get into this too much because your comment: White guilt (and before you get all liberal angered, I'm Hispanic)? was way off. So much so I lost respect after I had thought it would be a good thread.
Re:Answer me this. (Score:5, Insightful)
As a supporter of capitalism, answer these:
How many profitable, wealth-creating, job-creating companies use software?
How many profitable, wealth-creating, job-creating companies sell software?
If software becomes much cheaper, because more software can work from public free code bases, how many companies do better and how many companies do worse?
As an application programmer for, say, a bank, what is the effect of cheaper infrastructure software on my job security? If the projects being considered for me to work on become cheaper does that make them more likely or less likely to be approved?
If you work for Microsoft, you have my sympathy, but there are more of us than there are of you. Capitalism isn't about producing products, it's about producing products for customers, and when something else comes along that's better for the customer, his benefit outweighs the loss to the producer whose product no longer meets the need.
Free Software Creates Wealth (Score:5, Insightful)
I know several companies in the Seattle area (still suffering high unemployment and economic recession) that are successful *because* they use free software. They are able to adopt a piece of software, extend it to incorporate the features they need in their particular situation, and then add enough value to their company that they are turning healthy profits while all their competitors are flailing.
Let's take one piece of software -- the Apache web server. Even though acquiring the software requires little or no capital expenditure, deploying the software is pretty easy, and extending the software is only slightly more difficult, it is the foundation for several companies. Without that particular piece of software, they could not have built their business. Just having the software available to people creates wealth and value.
When Brazil unleashes a couple of million dollars from its IT spending and turns it into the pockets of Brazilian developers, testers, and documentators, it is going to begin the process of adding value to Free Software in Brazil. The companies and businesses will be able to utilize this software in their organizations, and add a bit of their own as well. The increased value of having the whole country united behind free software will bring such wealth that the previous revenue that licensing would've created would be seen as a drop in the bucket.
You have to view software from a holistic economic approach.
Re:This plan is brilliant!!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
The Brazilian government spend around US$1.000.000.000 (yeah, one billion... and yeah, dollars) with MS licensing. That amount will be spent somewhere else (health, education, training, etc) within Brazil and for Brazilian citizens.
One billion of dollars is an impressive amount here in Brazil that can make a difference.
By the way, the Brazilian government is the largest licensee of MS in Brazil.
In portuguese, an int
Re:Who cares? (Score:2)
Re:Good News!-WB and OSS (Score:5, Insightful)
Possibly, but more likely it is due to the fact that when a government spends money on Microsoft software the money goes to Microsoft which does nothing to stimulate the local economy. Even if it costs them twice as much to switch to free software they still come out ahead in the end because the money spent can be spent paying people who are far more likely than Microsoft to buy other Brazillian products and services.
Re:Good News!-WB and OSS (Score:5, Informative)
Moreso than that, they are investing in the education and development of the IT staff, who are part of Brazil's evolving economy.
They will most likely be boosting the local IT development by educating people to use and to contribute to the free software projects that benefit them. In the long run they will be saving millions of US dollars which can be better spent on Brazil. From a software perspective, the only money they'll be spending will be an investment on their staff and software that they have control over.
All the high TCO crap that comes out of bogus reports (slightly trollish, but true) has been seen through by the Brazilian politicians, who see this as an opportunity to invest Government money in Brazillian people and hence keep it in Brazil. No more upgrade fees. No more expensive support contracts but instead real computer admins and programmers on site who are part of Brazil's evolving economy.
Most of us here have long known the realities of TCO and Microsoft. The only big cost with free software is in retraining staff. And retraining can be done for free - give a hungry man a can of food and he'll find a way to open it.
I guess with all the economic trouble in South America of late, governments such as that of Brazil are being forced to recognise that reality. Microsoft can probably no longer buy their way into Government contracts with 'discounts' and whatever other tactics they might use.
When you're poor you gotta stop paying for convenience and doing things for yourself. Why have an automatic dishwasher when you can wash your dishes by hand.
Re:Good News!-WB and OSS (Score:3, Interesting)
In this case a lot, the real issue for Brazil is the balance of payments. Software is a major part of their imports.
I went to the morning presentations in Brazillia last Wednesday, I think folk are reading far more into the situation than is there. This is not about the legislature buying into open source ideology, they are being very pragmatic. At present 100% of their soft
I disagree (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people, like me, work for a company doing inhouse development, modifying existing programs and writing new ones.
Open source is also good for "local" developers, since no program fits a company perfectly and there's always room for improvements. That's a few new jobs right there for those who want it.
Please don't try to scare the Americans with some old McCarthy'isms about socialism and communism. It's not fun and it's not doing anyone any good.
Also, if hospitals and other government agencies can pay less for software and have more money to heal people, I don't have a problem with that. The same goes for other companies, if they can cut prices by not paying license costs, I'm just happy about it.