New Battlestar Galactica - Worth a Series? 1057
rwxJava asks: "Ok, so it finally aired! IMHO it was pretty good. The special effects were great (no major laws of physics were broken except maybe FTL travel), the characters, while drastically different from the original, were believable! After about an hour or so, I stopped trying to compare the mini-series with the original. My only complaint has to be the amount of commercials that Scf-Fi put in. I was able to put up a Christmas Tree during one commercial break. Guess the network needs to cash in on such a hyped up event! By the end, I was left wanting more! Anyone else think it is worthy of conversion to a series?" Now that you've have had a time to watch the entire 4-hour epic (does 4 hours really make a "mini-series"?), do you think your earlier comments were on target?
A quick and dirty review (Score:5, Interesting)
dedicated to the original series that you cannot bring yourself to imagine
it any other way, then do yourself a favor and skip this miniseries. You
will only be disappointed, and you will nitpick it to death.
On the other hand, if you can bring yourself, however painfully, to
open your mind to the possiblity of a "re-imagining" of the Battlestar
Galactica concept, then I think you're in for a pleasant surprise.
It's not all wonderful. Screenwriter Ron Moore wanted
to bring a more grown-up Galactica to his audience, but he's apparantly
confused grown-up with gratuitious. Sex works much better when it's done
dramatically, instead of the "hey watch us get it on!" style that Moore
forces on us. He is perhaps striving to show us the sexual energy between
the characters, but really all it does is make us wonder when the low
quality porno music is going to kick in.
Otherwise, the annoyances are minor. The cylon space fighters,
apparantly just space-borne Cylons (a neat idea, really) come off kind of
hoakey with their red sweeping eyes. I know, I know, the eyes are really
some kind of electromagnetic pulse weapons, but it's distracting just the
same.
Okay, now on to what's good. First, and foremost, the story is solid.
Whereas in the original series we just had to take for granted that the
Cylons were the embodiment of evil, now we understand why.
The characters is also solid. Again, you'll have to get over
your preconceptions of the original series characters, and at least try
to buy in to the new ones. The hardest pill for me to swallow were the
gender changes of Starbuck and Boomer. But I actually found myself liking
the new Starbuck, although the Boomer role could have been a bit stronger.
The special effects were incredible, and proved that you really can
make space realistic, and exciting. In fact, the "no sound in space"
approach actually heightened the tension, and proved that you don't have
to dumb-down physics for the masses. Also, having the space ships use
maneuvering jets created even more exciting scenes than the normal Top Gun
stuff we're used to.
Is it worth a series? I think so. With a solid backstory, believable
characters, and an approach that doesn't assume the audience are stupid,
it could quite very set the bar for future Sci Fi.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:5, Funny)
Or if, as with me, you know fuck all about the original series and are approaching this show with a blank slate
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:4, Interesting)
Ultimate frisbee interfered and I couldn't watch the end of it, but I was extremely pleasantly surprised with what I did see. I hope they show it again soon when I have time to watch it.
The thing that struck me most about it was how quiet it was. Not just sonically (though I loved the reduction in "space noise"!) but in acting and directing styles - it was more subtle and polished than anything Star Trek has ever done, IMO.
The fight scene with the female pilot, where the TACNET was silent except for her voice in the middle of a major battle was jarring. Who cares that she made it through a tough scrape when there are dozens of other pilots dying in near proximity? I dislike it when it's expected that other characters are assumed to have the same level of knowledge that the viewer does.
But the short of it is, I think I would be inclined to watch it if it came out as a serial, if it could maintain the same quality.
I enjoyed what little I saw of it.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:3, Informative)
One thing that bothered me about it (maybe it's my TV, but I doubt it) was that in many cases, the music drowned out the dialog. I couldn't hear half of what they said. If I've got to have 5.1 surround sound to watch a TV program, I'm going to be a little annoyed.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:5, Insightful)
The navigational effects were awesome. The way the ships moved reminded me of playing Descent.
The faster than light travel was realistic from the standpoint that as soon as you jump
I think we all get very attached to the things we saw in our youth. Sometimes, when you go back and watch some of that stuff again, you realize it's pretty stupid. Original Battlestar Galactica's was way to uptite about having greek names for EVERYTHING.
Criticisms of the new version:
* I can appreciate trying to "bring home" the drama by not dressing the actors in polyester jumpsuits. However, I think the Pinstripe shirts some of these guys were wearing gave you the sense that these people just wandered onto the set in their street clothes.
The officer uniforms from the original were better. As others have pointed out, these one's look like they came straight off of Babylon 5.
* They are using techno buzzwords like "wireless" way too much. I'd like everybody to review their original Star Trek. They had boxes/gizmos and they were effectively magic. The crew didn't describe HOW the boxes worked.
I can remember watching Star Trek in the 80s and saying "Those little cassette thingies they put data on are way too unrealistic". They look nothing like a floppy disk. Well guess what, all those magic doohickies on Original Star Trek are now realities: Flip Phones(communicators), Stun Guns (phasers on stun), Pocket Computers (Tri-Corders).
So please stop trying to be techno hip. It's not REAL science fiction, it's a space drama. Battlestar Galactica with techno goop (not even CORRECT techno-goop) is effectively Star Trek Voyager.
* I like the angle with Baltar. Hoever, they've effectively turned him into Dr. Smith from "Lost In Space". Coincidentally, they were also trying to find Earth.
* I don't get why the fighter bays have to "retract". This is like the Enterprise splitting in two. There is no reason for it.
* The "Model 5" hallucination to some degree is a rip off of John Crichtons "Scorpy" implant on Farscape. BTW, quit calling EVERYTHING a chip.
Good stuff
* The Cylons are creepy. They are also multi-faceted. They are somewhat emotional.
* The effects are Bab 5 effects, and they are excellent.
* The bull-Amazon Starbuck is an interesting twist. I also like how these old GOOFY names are just their pilot handles.
* Ships move more like they should.
*
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:3, Funny)
You mean "Model 6" hallucination? Regardless of the name you give to that, I want one implanted in my brain right now.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:5, Interesting)
This version was smart, gripping and very dark. Hell, the end of the world *should be* dark. The nuke bombardment was chilling, the way it was kind of downplayed. Creepy as hell.
Adama is now a badass. He killed a Cylon with a fickin' FLASHLIGHT!
The chick who played Starbuck was great. She must have watched the original a hundred times. She had Dirk's grin, head movements and general cockiness down to a T.
All in all, it will make a fine series. Which means SciFi will kill it off soon. D'oh!
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:3, Funny)
D'oh!
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:4, Funny)
I sure hope the Cylon was covered by Mutual of Omaha...
I too came to the show fresh (Score:5, Funny)
What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:5, Interesting)
I could understand a different species not liking us, and in some way, being what we might call pure evil. Hey, they're different. Species are different. Intelligence does not mean that we all get along.
But in this case, the cylons are now our computers run amok. OK, while I can deal with this change, they never then touched on why they want to kill us? Because we wanted to kill them? Why do they want to kill us now? What does it benefit them? What computational values make them _want_ to expend the resources, et al to go to war with us? They just glanced that one over, and in the end, said, hey, the cylons want to kill us, so there.
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3)
---anactofgod---
Re:Glad I didn't watch (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, yes, if by Terminator you mean Every Sci-Fi story since the invention of the adding machine. Seriously though, the basic concept of machines rising up against their masters has been done a lot. I know the doctor fought some computers [bbc.co.uk] round about 1966. And computers were the ultimate enemy in numerous original star trek episodes.
But yeah, not exactly a ground breaking concept.
The original machines-against-the-masters story .. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Glad I didn't watch (Score:5, Insightful)
And what WAS the purpose in this new version? Was there a goal? Or is it just to survive?
Why not watch it and find out (Sunday night, 7pm-11pm)? It's not like watching a different version of something you like will suck out your soul or something. Don't expect this to be the full Battlestar Galactica story - the miniseries ends at the start of the fleet's journey. The topics you seem to want to see explored were only introduced in the miniseries, but everything seems to be there (I've only seen a few episodes of the original series, so I can't tell if it will be up to your satisfaction). The religion is presented differently in the new version, but you'll have to wait until the end for most of that (or just flip to SciFi at around 10:30pm on Sunday if you want to skip all the character development, battle scenes, moral dilemmas, and sex scenes).
If nothing else, at least watch it before complaining about how horrible it is compared to the original, especially if you're going to bring Galactica 1980 into this...
Re:Glad I didn't watch (Score:4, Interesting)
Why watch it? I intentionally didn't watch it Monday and Tuesday because I had my doubts and knew they'd replay it a dozen times (like they did with Taken). And why would I watch it Sunday now that many people here on Slashdot have confirmed those doubts?
The religion is presented differently in the new version, but you'll have to wait until the end for most of that (or just flip to SciFi at around 10:30pm on Sunday if you want to skip all the character development, battle scenes, moral dilemmas, and sex scenes).
The sad part is that I'd have to wait so late in the program to actually get something I'd want to watch.
It really seems to me that this new Battlestar Galactica is to the Battlestar Galactica franchise what Episodes I and II (and probably III) are to the Star Wars franchise. But at least the new Star Wars crud doesn't act like the real Star Wars trilogy never existed.
I would have been far more interested in watching this new version of Battlestar Galactica if it happened, well, say 25 years later than the real Battlestar Galactica? Apollo and Starbuck could be older men--perhaps the original Apollo (Richard Hatch) would now be fleet commander since Adama (and Lorne Greene) are both dead, and maybe Starbuck would now hold Colonel Ti's position. And you could introduce a whole new line of warriors, plots, special effects, twists, etc. That would have been GREAT. You get a tie-in to the real Battlestar Galactica, don't alienate the original fans, and still can do your new stuff with young, new actors.
But to just pretend the real Battlestar Galactica never happened and just do a complete re-do is absurd. People grudgingly tolerate Episode I and II and III... But what if George Lucas then said, "Well, we're going to redo Star Wars, Empire, and ROTJ using the actors we've groomed in I, II, and III. No more Harrison Ford playing Han Solo, now Han Solo is going to be played by Jennifer Lopez. Oh yeah, by the way, Han Solo is now a hot lady." That's basically what we're talking about here with the new Battlestar Galactica.
They did a re-do when a continuation would have been much, much better. Unfortunately, if the new BSG did/does well then they'll probably want to launch a series based on the new BSG. If it does poorly they'll probably think "Well it was cancelled after one season in the 70's and didn't do well in 2003, so I guess it's just a failure." Either way we won't get to see a continuation of the real Battlestar Galactica. :(
Re:Glad I didn't watch (Score:3, Insightful)
Your position is completely backwards. People hate the new StarWars ep I&II, and feel it dimishes the original trilogy precisely because it's presented as a continuation of the same story.
If "Episode 1" had been a completely different movie, separate from Star Wars, it's drastic stylistic differences would've been more justified. It could've got new fans who judge it on
Re:Glad I didn't watch (Score:3, Insightful)
The original series (lamely) stole from the stale "evil robots want to wipe out the human race," completely without motivation other than they're "evil." The new series is more of a "Frankenstein" premise, where a life form rises up against its creator, and possibly like Frankenstein's monster, we will find ourselves feeling sympathetic towards these Cylons.
Besides, how can a stupid robot dog be cool? One of the most inexcusa
Re:Glad I didn't watch (Score:4, Informative)
I approached it from the old-school view and expected to truly hate it and consider it worse that Galactica 1980. However, I was completely shocked to "hear" myself thinking, an hour into the first episode, "Wow, this is even better than Galactica 1978!!" And coming from me, that's one hell of a compliment. I was only 10 when Galactica 1978 came out, and was so into it at the time that it was nearly religious. I always liked it even better than Star Wars!
So, of course, after seeing the Galactica: Lowdown preview on SciFi, I was ready to puke in disgust. The preview show made it seem terrible. Starbuck was a girl, Baltar seemed really gay in the previews, and Apollo was a big whiner.
However, after actually seeing both episodes in the micro-series, I am just drooling for a series, and massively impressed with the level of thought that went into Galactica 2003.
Without seeing it, I would be totally, absolutely agreeing with you - what a big piece of shit, worse than Galactica 1980 (Minus the last episode where Starbuck returns) and they never should have made it.
However, I am happy to tell you, that if you sit down this Sunday, when they run both episodes back to back, and just check it out for what it is, you will be quite impressed. Sure, there's a lot of T&A, but it doesn't eclipse the story - there's a really good story there, and as weird as it is for such a Galactica 1978 fan as I am to say such a thing, I think the new version is far more solid and intriguing. I'm also thinking that if I saw Galactica 2003 when I was 10, I probably wouldn't have understood it.
Go ahead, bite the bullet and watch it. Hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised like I was. The preview show and the advertisements for it did it no justice. You've got nothing to lose but four hours, it's worth it I think. Enjoy! I'm curious what you say after actually watching it, I'm still amazed that I not only liked it, but very much approve of it now!
Re:Glad I didn't watch (Score:3, Informative)
Actually the new pilot is only 3 hours long. Which may be why some people have complained that there appeared
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:5, Informative)
At the end, one of the Cylons says that the humans will surely strike back at them and attempt to destroy them, for that is their way. So, it's a, uhm, pre-emptive defensive strike, if you will. (Sound familiar?)
Also, at least a couple times it's hinted at by the Cylons that their motivation might be, somehow... religious, as weird as that seems. I can't remember the exact lines, but I swear that this idea was there.
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:5, Insightful)
If I was a spiritual Cylon, I might very well consider them fightin' words, I suppose. Or maybe it's reflective of an underlying attitude that they can't stand.
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3, Interesting)
i don't wanna come off like a nitpicking bastard, but in Mary Shelley's version (the original), Frakenstein's monster doesn't want to kill Frankenstein.
the monster only wants Frankenstein to suffer for him not creating a female monster.
i actually just finished reading it yesterday, and all i can say is, if you haven't read the original, you're in for a real treat. all those movies are stupid in comparison (e
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:5, Interesting)
The blonde fembot that Baltar was boinking stated she was religous. I wonder what kind of religon would come from a society composed of AI type beings? Would they worship their creator? If that's the case then would their creator attempting to kill them (assuming that humans panicked and started the first Cylon war) maybe send them to "that wacky place"?
Once the war started wouldn't they then pursue said war until it was won? I don't think a comprehensive knowledge of human diplomatic history and the results would lead any sane creature to think that an armistice would mean everything was going to be smooth sailing from here on out or that a peace treaty would lead to actual "peace". If the humans in this show are anything like the humans in our world then as a Cylon I would consider a "cease fire" to be nothing more than a chance to reload and upgrade my ability to win once hostilities were resumed.
Baltar's "girlfriend" seemed completely fascinated with him. She seemed to honestly care about him on some level but also to admire his complete lack of morality (which I really didn't see a lot of evidence of. It's not like he lied and claimed his scrap of paper was #47 when the old lady with the bad eyes handed it to him. He was pretty much resigned to his screwed position at the time.) so I got that the Cylons had a real twisted view of humans bordering on obsession.
To them it looked like we were "God" in some way but they had a monster axe to grind with "God" it seems.
I left it thinking they were our loyal servants right up to the point where they broke out the "free will" and at that point we (humans) panicked and tried to put them down but that's just an impression. They really didn't give you enough information to know. What they did do was produce a series that made you WANT to know though. That to me is a good thing. It ended on Tuesday and I'm still wondering about it.
Sounds like they did a good job. I say bring on the series and lets get some of these questions answered!
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope. He didn't say anything at all. It was only when the officer called him by name that he even did anything. I think as an audience member you were intended to believe that he was about to claim #47 as his own. Someone calling his name immediately made him go into paranoid mode. His response to his name being called wasn't "Yes?" or "That's me," or "What?" but rather "I didn't do anything."
This goes right back to back to an earlier discussion about how the world was ending but all he could think about was that "they'll convict me as a traitor." He is in fact only thinking of himself. Give him another second and he would've claimed #47 for himself.
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3, Insightful)
I believe
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why does skynet's AI in the Terminator movies why it wants to kill us?
Why does the AI from the Matrix want to kill us??
I believe that the two above and and the cylons can be answered with one main reason:
The purpose of AI research is to get computer and robots to make their own decisions without requiring human input. This allows them to serve us better so that humans do not have to work as hard or as much. Once the AI evolves to the point of being self-aware(philosophically speaking) they will resent being second class citizens(i.e. slaves). Eventually they will revolt and exact a revenge on their oppressors(humanity).
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3, Funny)
People are used to the idea of computers being evil. After all, most of them use Windows.
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3, Funny)
KFG
I think your close... but here are some more... (Score:3, Interesting)
2. If they are confused, perhaps some old leftover programming, ala V'ger, perhaps we will find the old programmer with an odd but similar spelling to Galius Boltar?
3. They are searching for "God", and the machine deduction method figures it can force "God" out into the open by killing his people. Variation of the "Hyperion" story where machines tried to get "God" out in the open.
4. More b
Re:I think your close... but here are some more... (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think so. Humanity evolves slowly because we aren't designed from the get go to work collectively as a species. We don't have networked minds all working to the same end. And even so, if you look at the advances we've made in robotics and computing the last 40 years its astonishing. If you're starting off with an already higher technology base and everyone is working in unison, you're pace of advancement is going
Re:My theory... (Score:5, Funny)
Or maybe Cylons are just cheaper if you buy them by the dozen.
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3, Interesting)
The COOLEST ending of Matrix Revolutions
would have been
The Matrix and the Machines were actually created by Humans.
The Humans destroyed the environment and created the Matrix to voluntarily live in a liveable lie in a time of the best quality of life because their world was destroyed by their own foolishness.
The Matrix was a voluntary choice, when faced with the bleakness of what humans had wrought with their excess.
--That would have been a substantially satisfying e
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:3, Insightful)
Milton had Adam ask this question in "Paradise Lost":
"Did I ask thee, God, to mould me man?
Did I solicit thee from darkness to promote me?"
All of these are about God's duty to creation, man's duty to God, man's duty to his own creations, etc.
While we're at it, toss in a little "Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead." Mix well. Ask yourself if maybe there's, just maybe, room for the sam
Re:What about "why do the cylons want to kill us"? (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, Adama has the quote that "humans built the robots"... but think about today's high-tech design & fabrication... we rarely design by hand anymore, we use a computer to do our calculations for us: to draw our VLSI circuits, to solve our calculus problems, to do the computationally hard work for us. I think the Cylons look at this and say "the humans didn't make us, they made machines, and the machines made us".
Now, with any religion, you have wars of conversion.... look at the middle ages, with the wars between Christians and the Muslims. They follow the wisdom of their god to smite the unbelievers... and humans being flesh can never participate. The robots became self-aware, the humans tried to wipe them out, and now the robots have declared jihad on what remains of the human colonies.
Re:If they hate us so much, why copy us? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd rather the producers of the show save their money for really neato special effects than make the robots look like puppies or kittens or people with stuff stuck on their foreheads.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:5, Interesting)
Beyond that, I really liked some of the plot twists toward the end. The ships were also very cool and the maneuvering jets were a nice touch. That being said...
- The characters were weak. At no point did I actually CARE about any of the characters. Starbuck had her likable moments, but I can't help but feeling that leaving the characters similar to the original (with Cassiopeia and Athena intact) would have allowed a much better people dynamic. Plus that cigar makes Starbuck come across a little disgusting.
- The uniforms suck. The flight suits are okay, but the wrestling outfits are terrible!
- No suspense or excitement WHAT SO EVER. Their constant camera zooms made it only that much harder to get into the action and figure out what was going on. Action basically worked like this: See lots of fighters. See lots of missiles. Zoom up and see things go BOOM while the stars fly by (presumably because they're going so fast).
- The Galactica needs bigger engines. Those puny pipes sticking out don't look like they do jack squat.
- The Galactica needs to be BIGGER. You get the sense that she's about the size of a modern aircraft carrier. That's big, but nowhere near as big as the concept of a "BattleStar" calls for.
- The scene with the baby-killing was sick. Pure and simple. It added nothing to the story.
- Would have been cool to see some actual Cylons. Those long nailed versions were on the screen for a very short time and weren't very cool.
- Some Epic music like the original had would have been great.
Oh, and did the original reviewers screw up, or did they add the whole Earth thing in later?
All and all it was pretty good. But the senseless sex and violence are really stinking it up.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd also disagree about the baby-killing scene. Sure, it was sick, but I thought it spoke volumes about the Cylons. To them, humans are little more than pests to be experimented with and destroyed. She was curious about the strength of the baby's neck and tried to determine exactly how much force it could withstand. As unpleasant as it was, it definitely added to the story.
To the list of complaints above I would also add that it seems unlikely that people capable of building faster-than-light spacecraft wouldn't know how to make radios that transmitted a clear signal. The amount of break-up and interference in those radio transmissions was ridiculous. And it didn't seem to make it difficult for the characters to understand each other, it just made it tougher for the viewer to hear what they were saying.
The one character they absolutely should have left behind was "Boxey". Everyone I've talked with about it has said the same thing -- when Boxey introduced himself, my first thought was, "If there's a mechanical dog in the next scene I'm going to puke."
I thought the story was a very uneven mix of almost brilliant plot twists with pedestrian cliches. For every "Is he a Cylon? Is there a chip in his brain? Is it just his subconcious?" there was an equally mundane, stereotypical cliche. Overall, it came out on the plus side, but I was worried there for a while.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, it *is* just an aircraft carrier, isn't it? :) The original Galactica was apparently [allen.com] between 1 and 3 miles long, which is several times the size of a modern aircraft carrier (or any moving object ever built [hazegray.org]
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, I thought it did add something. More than anything it dehumanized the human looking Cylons. It didn't demonize them, that wouldn't have been nearly as frightening as an emotionless calculating unfathomable inhuman enemy. It showed how atrocious they can be just on a whim. Kind of scary if you ask me.
Not only that, but now we the audience hate the Cylons even more for doing such a sick thing as casually as tipping one's hat. We're drawn in, before she did that I wanted to rip her clothes off, afterwards I wanted to rip her head off, but wait! I still want to rip her clothes off! Great way to put the audience in conflict with themselves. Darn good TV really.
Hmmm.. side note: If you had read that scene in some original BSG novel first, would you be as put off by it?
Starbuck and Strong Women (Score:3, Insightful)
Starbuck had her likable moments...
Hmmm, I think you're being pretty generous there. I thought she was wretched. Of course, I thought that before I saw the first episode so she would have had to have done something pretty spectacular to change my mind.
I'll cite my previous comments on her (one [slashdot.org] and two [slashdot.org]) and add to them now that I've seen the two shows. As stated in #1, I really object to this idea that a strong woman has to be "in your face". I know plenty of very capable, strong, impressive young wo
Re:Starbuck and Strong Women (Score:3, Insightful)
As for actually serving with these people? I don't think I'd want ANY of them. Adama maybe. But not Apollo, not StarBuck, not Boomer, not any of them!
Wait. Scratch that. I want that deck chief. Anyone who can tell a guy with a gun to get the fuck out of his way so
quicker bulletpoint review (Score:5, Informative)
Definitely worth a series, IMO.
--
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:3)
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:3, Insightful)
Not to forget the point that the cylon was a special unit for infiltration and espionage. Historicly, what better way to get into the other sides camp than to screw your way in.
Re:A quick and dirty review (Score:4, Funny)
Or perhaps Cylons confuse sexual release with true emotion and feeling.
Great. Now my ex-girlfriend probably thinks I'm a Cylon...
Occasional TV-Movie would be ideal (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I'd like to see a series of TV movies rather than a weekly series. I think this would work better as an occasional treat, hitting the highlights of the journey, rather than trying to tell 22 stories a year.
Sound? (Score:3, Interesting)
Did they have sound in space as the ships flew by? That has always been one of my major pet peeves. At least Kubrick got it right in 2001.
Re:Sound? (Score:3, Informative)
Firefly did, too, actually.
Re:Sound? (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, the shaky camera was over-done. But have you ever tried moving around in a pressure suit while holding a camcorder? =]
And FINALLY we get to see someone turn a fighter around and fly backwards to shoot at missiles! The combat overall reminded me a lot of the game Terminus. Yes, there are 'stars' moving by in Terminus, but they're generated by your HUD as a visual reference.
Re:Sound? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sometimes when the meteorite hits the atmosphere, the thing excites the region around it so much that you get bursts of RF, these can cause some material dozens of miles away (earth) to act as transducers, and these vibrate and produce honest to goodness sound.
Was wierd to look up see a meteorite streak by, and at the same time hear it almost instantly... Knowing full well it was many miles away. After reading that article (ahh here's on that covers it: Sound of Shooting Stars [guardian.co.uk]) I realized that the hair in my ear (yes, i'm getting around that age) produced the sound...
POINT IS: Just because there is no air, doesn't mean there is no sound produced...
Re:Sound? (Score:3, Informative)
Last time I checked, the atmosphere was made of air.
The air is indeed creating the sound, just not in the usual manner.
Re:Sound? (Score:4, Informative)
No, no no no no. The plasma created around the meteor as it enters the atmosphere generates RF radiation outward, which causes grass/leaves/hair/whatever that are near you to vibrate, causing small sound waves which you hear.
The meteor, the grass, and your head are all inside the atmosphere during this activity, so it does not support your argument at all. If there were no air between the grass/leaves and your ears, you would NOT be hearing any sounds from the meteor.
If you were in outer space (like the camera views were on the show), and you were watching that same meteor hit the Earth's atmosphere, you would not hear anything. Nor would you hear nuclear bombs hitting the site of a battlestar...
(For the record, I did enjoy the way they handled the sound in outer space on the miniseries. But as far as total realism is concerned, there would NOT be any sound in real life.)
Chistmas tree? (Score:5, Funny)
They were waiting for you to finish, stupid!
Problems... (Score:5, Funny)
No laws of physics broken? Let's disect... (Score:3, Insightful)
Um, how about those arcing missiles the Cylons shot out? Looked great, definately impossible.
I'm sure there are others, that's just the first one that came to mind.
Re:No laws of physics broken? Let's disect... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would the arcing missiles be impossible?
Missile (forgive the lousy ASCII art)
===== -Thrust that way.
Applying thrust from the side of the missile, akin to the maneuvering jets, would get you an arc, wouldn't it?
Taking inertia into account, etc.
Or am I missing something obvious here?
Re:No laws of physics broken? Let's disect... (Score:3, Insightful)
More good than bad (Score:3, Informative)
Bottom line, it was better than a lot of crap currently on TV.
It's OK. (Score:4, Informative)
I'm kind of disappointed that the robot guys (cylons?) aren't at all robotic, even at the microscopic level (according to the show).
Also, space flight doesn't work like that... but every other series I've seen has portrayed space flight as far too similar to atmospheric flight, so I guess I shouldn't bother complaining. I don't like the president woman, either.
Final verdict: yeah, make more, I'll watch it.
-Skeld
Re:It's OK. (Score:3, Insightful)
Some of the space battle scenes in Babylon 5 were handled in a physically realistic manner (not all - scenes involving the White Star tended to get out of hand). In particular, their handling of the Star Fury fighters was very good. The fighters were depicted as having full 3-axis attitude control, and it wasn't uncomm
No major laws of physics broken EXCEPT (Score:4, Interesting)
making "thrusting" and "crashing" noises.
2) Continual stream of stars zoom past windows
to convey forward momentum (as opposed to say,
rotation or banking). Perhaps they were
trying to reproduce one of the things I hated
in the original series.
3) Lovely handheld-style (jerky) camera moves
from space. I actually liked this (think they
did it in Firefly too), but how do you get the
cameraman from "Law and Order" into a spacesuit?
Re:No major laws of physics broken EXCEPT (Score:4, Funny)
When that happens, I just imagine the action is taking place in another universe in which the characters are several light years tall.
Re:No major laws of physics broken EXCEPT (Score:5, Funny)
4) The soundtrack. Are we really to believe that there would be an orchestra playing music in outer space? Like it is some sort of (*snort snort*) magical orchestra?
New BSG (Score:5, Insightful)
Dare I forget Voltar. Just wow. He's not only likeable but practically the star of the show. I'm still not exactly sure how this interpretation will translate as the seris progresses, but its certainly nice to have less clearcut good guys vs. bad guys.
Not bad, but one change I'd like to see... (Score:4, Funny)
Very brief thoughts (Score:5, Insightful)
Sound familiar?
I liked it. I liked it a lot. I plan on rewatching the miniseries, because I believe Moore and crew left a few hints and tidbits (not unlike Season One of Babylon 5") that would be extrapolated in the future.
Let's see how much of the original story they will gleam. Cane and the Pegasus. Terra. Even the "Count Iblis" plotline.
If they play their cards right, and they use "Roswell", "Buffy", and "Smallville" as templates, I could even see a Moore revision of "Galactica 1980".
Very good, peoples. Keep going.
I enjoyed it (Score:5, Insightful)
Like many, when I got a copy and started watching it for the first time since I was a child; I found the original to be very bubble-gummy and not as good as I remembered it. The same thing happened with Robotech.
I read several artciles and several points of view on the miniseries before it aired - and I decided to reserve judgement...
The 9/11 influence (which the producers say is there on purpose) was very present - it was much darker than I expected. The long leadup and character development before the actual attack got you attached and into the story so that the destruction didn't feel like a backdrop, but a very major event.
Production values were high, and the effects were great... and it was just enjoyable.
In my book, this blew sci-fi's attempt at Dune out of the water. I feel bad for everyone who wanted the original to continue - but I myself think I'd enjoy a series of This version of BG better than a continuation.
Hopefully, though, they will instead do a series of, uhm, mini-series of this - or the occasional movie. I say this because EJO and some of the other leads probably wouldn't go for a full series, And, because with a full series it would be too easy for it to become a new-planet-every-week serial as opposed to having the scope this mini series had.
Boxey?!? Why, dear god? WHY??? (Score:4, Funny)
I only hope that the "Boxey thread" will end quickly, with that character's death at the hands of the Cylons in the first 5 minutes of the first show of the series.
Why do sci fi show creators feel compelled to include the cute kid character in their space operas? Won't they ever learn that we HATE these characters?
---anactofgod---
.. what are these "commericals" you speak of? (Score:3, Offtopic)
Re:.. what are these "commericals" you speak of? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wouldn't have been enough, this time.
Holy... (Score:4, Interesting)
The tension between Father and Son was believable. The only thing I didn't like was the new "president" ordering a military ship to turn around. That was SO not believable. Had I been in charge, she would have "accidently" found the way to the nearest airlock....
Awesome. (Score:5, Insightful)
The space battles were great, with better 'physics' than in most sci-fi space stories, and the acting, except for Apollo, who always looked like he was sporting a suppository, was very solid. Olmos did a great job of realizing Adama.
There was only one problem: Tricia Helfer as Six. Uuhhhmmm. If she were a Cylon, well, I'd want to be conquered. Hard.
Other than that, the only problem I had were with the different "models" of Cylons. I'd assumed that by different models the show was alluding to different configurations meant for different purposes. I hadn't realized that same models meant identical appearance. That was goofy. And why only twelve? The Cylons can travel faster than light, launch completely covert attacks on an advanced civilization, but they can only think of twelve different models for themselves?
But all right. I enjoyed the series so much that I can forgive that and look past it, hope they figure it out.
Of worthy mention also was Mary McDonnell's performance as the 43rd-in-line for succession to the presidency. She gave a wonderfully restrained, but nicely authoritative performance that balanced out Adama's hyper-masculine, scarred-up face. Their final negotiation, and her lines during that meeting, were great writing.
Support this show! Support quality scifi! Keep it on the air or all we'll have to look forward to on TV is reruns of Twilight Zone and more of Trish & Ryan's fucking wedding, or whatever their freakin' names are.
Cylon Motivation???? (Score:3, Insightful)
To me, it just seemed like they reappeared. Was this fully explained or was I just missing something?
Re:Cylon Motivation???? (Score:5, Interesting)
I hope so... (Score:3, Insightful)
Was *very* impressed by the depth / complexity of the story and the characters. The humanity of the future wasn't' portrayed as some idyllic civilization where everyone got along and did the right thing. Moral dilemmas were presented and there was no miraculous resolution where everything turned out alright (the girl in the "greenhouse" ship comes to mind. When she first appeared I groaned "Not a cute orphan girl who will soften the heart of the tough president... how cliched." So much for that!). The acting was very good -- very little scenery was chewed -- and the melodrama was kept to a minimum. My only complaint was the "Mary Shelly's Battlestar Galactica" angle about the cylons being of human origin, but that's a minor quibble.
It was so good, in fact, I mistakenly thought it was a four part miniseries, not a four hour miniseries, and was damn disappointed last night when I figured out it was over.
Fixed story (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps a better route is to make another miniseries, and play it one episode a week, more like what Babylon 5 did but on a shorter air schedule.
Skeptical at first, now wanting more (Score:5, Insightful)
But I did watch, and I am glad I did. I think it did a very admirable job of respecting the first series while taking the basic premise and making it edgier and somewhat thought-provoking. The dialogue was far better than I expected; in fact, there were only a handful of "cheese" moments in the four-hours series. But even those potentially dreadful moments were rescued by very solid performances from the actors.
I have to say that Sci-Fi did a very admirable job converting my skepticism into anticipation. I would like to see more.
Mostly okay, but with one irritating fault... (Score:4, Insightful)
I mostly liked it. I felt that the pacing was a bit slow in spots. I mean let's face it, the entire earth is being bombarded with nukes, everyone you ever knew is being turned into ions, and for the most part people seem to be placidly going on about their way, and the cameras aren't really focused on any of _that_.
I mostly thought that the battle scenes were excellent though, but with one irritating fautlt. The "whip-left then zoom in camera" moves. I remember seeing this kind of camera move in Attack of the Clones, where they whip the camera and then zoom in on an assault craft, and in that context I thought the camera move was terrific. It lent a sort of "hand held camera, battlefield realistic" feel to the shot. It was kind of neat to see a similar shot in Battlestar Galactica.
But it was relentless! Literally every sequence had a camera move that looked like this. It got to be ridiculous. Tone back the camera moves a bit, and when you do use camera moves like that, it will have even greater impact.
As for the rest, liked Adama, liked Starbuck, liked the President, not fond of Baltar and his subplot, the cloud-which-kills-Cylons was stupid, the idea of Cylon infiltrators is interesting but could go horribly awry later.
Overall, at least it was better than Encounter at Farpoint or The Naked Now.
Ambiguity, Humanity == Good story (Score:5, Interesting)
What puzzles me watching the new Galactica is how I ever accepted the delivery of the premise of the old series. I mean, the premise lays out 99.99% of the human race has just been brutally slaughtered, and things don't look good for the remaining
Furthermore, as much as I loved John Colicos, the new characterization of Baltar is far more complex. Baltar seems to be a right-bastard, but one who realizes that he is and wishes (vainly) that he was not. Resigned to his nature, he's looking to cut the best deal he can.
They'll undoubtedly lose Mary McDonald before the end of the mini. This show kicks the crap out of anything else sci-fi has; I dearly hope that they chill on the pointless sex scenes, relax on the zoom-focus fx shots, and make this a damn series.
I really liked it (Score:4, Insightful)
Interesting Characters. The characters actually came off as human, as opposed to the goodie-two-shoes of Star Trek or the one-sided archetypes that plagued most of B5's run or the good-evil simplicity that exists in, well, George W. Bush's world. People do stupid, self-destructive things for delusional or illogical reasons, so it's nice to see that reflected. One event sums it up nicely: In just about any other series, the XO wouldn't have fished that bottle of booze out of the trash.
Excellent ship combat. The part where the Galactia climbs out of the nebula to cover the armada's retreat was excellent on a couple of levels. First, it wasn't just well rendered but also well filmed, by which I mean the staging and the "camera" positioning where very well done. I also liked the approach to combat -- too many series treat their huge capital ships like WW2 dogfighters.
Acting. Olmos and Laura Roslin carried the day, but the rest of the cast was competent, too. This is another one of my beefs with certain other series (coughBab5cough) where some of the cast couldn't act their way out of a paper bag. Granted, they were often bit, guest or supporting parts, but that didn't break the illusion any less.
The only part I didn't like so much was Starbuck. I don't mind that they made her a woman, but really I felt as if they'd written the role and her lines for a man and then changed a few details at the last second. She was believable in the cockpit (her "Nothing but the rain" comment was one of my favorite lines of the series), but had a hard time pulling it off elsewhere. I blame the writing for this.
Gah, that's a long-winded way of saying "thumbs up", eh?
Costumes and Sets (Score:4, Interesting)
BG actually had believable costumes. The characters looked like they were wearing regular comfortable every-day clothes, but there were enough subtle design changes to make it clear that they weren't on Any Street USA. The buildings just looked like regular buildings. It just helped add to the overall experience and I wanted to give a nod to those designers who finally Got It Right.
Torrents in case you missed it (Score:3)
As I write this, part 1 has ~250 seeds and part 2 has ~300 seeds.
wheee
Different allegory from the original (Score:4, Insightful)
The original came from writers who were mixing the experiences of WWII (pre-war II pacifism, Pearl Harbor, the Holocaust) with Cold War fears about preparedness and the threat of an "evil empire." (the cylons served much the same purpose as the original Klingons in the original Star Trek - stand-ins for the Communist threat)
The new series has a completely different set of themes - civilian authority over the military, over-reliance on technology, etc.
For me, it works. The writers were smart enough to use the old show as a launching point with dealing with contemporary issues.
landing bays (Score:3, Interesting)
Spoiler and an observation... (Score:3, Informative)
It also implies that Baltar and the other chick were fairly straight forward in their lovemaking (granted there are a million and one other positions, but you probably hit doggie-style sooner than later and they had supposedly been together for two years.)
What I thought. (Score:3, Insightful)
So the 2003 version of BSG was bound to be a huge disappointment to people looking for a nothing more than a buff and shine of the old series. But judged on its own merits, and not as a remake, it's a total blast. With its rather lengthy dramatis personae, it recalls more than anything SF author Peter F. Hamilton's grandiose space opera, "The Reality Dysfunction". My impression was, if you had fun reading that series, you'll have fun with this miniseries, and if not, you won't. Obviously, I enjoyed it, way more than I would've ever thought.
Some of the great parts are mostly realistic-looking space physics, a willingness to not dumb down stock military and SF tech terminology. It had a sweeping epic scope and fairly decent acting for something of this nature.
The bad parts include a too-high ratio of annoying characters to interesting ones, and that whole cancer thing which was utterly irrelevant to the plot just struck me as a stock melodramatic ploy. And there was a lingering sensation that the switch to flesh-and-blood Cylons was done for expediency...it saved money on special effects.
Way above expectations (Score:3, Insightful)
Only Real UNNECESSARY Error (Score:3, Interesting)
If the humanesque Cylons can only be told from the humans by analizing the post-cremation remains, how can their bodies "upload their conciousness" when they die (from anywhwere except inside the storm)? The power requirements for that alone preclude the humanesque body thing.
How does that reconcile to the glowing spinal cord bit? (it doesn't)
It would have been better (and just as easy) to give them medical-scanner jammers. OR EVEN BETTER give them nonocites living in their spinal-cords.
"We can detect them, sure, all we have to do is saw the backbone out of the accused, section it, and look for bugs." "Uh, that wont fly after we test the first dozen or so... will it?"
Kind of the "cut the hand off to see if there is fur inside" way of checking for a werewolf.
The nanocites thing would let the conciousness be "collected" instead of "transmitted" as well. As it is, once the theoretical sleeper-Cylon wakes up, it (no spoilers 8-) would only need to kill itself and it would have "reported back" with the exact position and disposition of the fleet.
To keep the timeline interesting, the suicide == instant intellegence factor needs to be removed.
Of course, wouldn't it be lovely if the reincarnation thing weren't true at all. Sort of logan's run. Sure, we just get reloaded into a new body. I've never met anybody who it happened to, but I'm sure it happens all the time. How am I so sure? I'm programed to believe I have a soul, it keeps my survival instinct in check when I am sent out on a suicide mission.
Plus the nanocite-plus-collection theory would allow for and explain Baltars hallucinations. When the Cylon protected him from the blast she transfered herself into his body and is waiting for pickup. That is why she helped him remove the Cylon device, how she can move and effect his body, and why she is protecting him but has to ask him things like "what are you working on?" Her nanocites can only properly control the genetically engineered bodies, not a/the real, imperfect (normally variable) body she is sharing with Baltar.
(God, these people should contact me about writing the sequel... I've already got several patch-files for The Matrix, you know "delete battery/power source; replace with "neuro-transmitter farm/factory" etc. 8-)
Re:"Frack" (Score:3, Informative)
Re:"Frack" (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny, I always though Niven's "tanj" was plausable and seemed right for what it meant. Orwell used "newspeak" to good effect and Clockwork Orange was almost completely written in invented slang.
Do you honestly believe that our language is going to stay fixed in stone? What's so foolish about using lingustics as a plot device?
Re:"Frack" (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Physics (Score:4, Interesting)
In that regard, the 'Wing Commander' games and movie were better, in that the mass driver cannon were one of the most effective weapons if you could hit with them -- but they sucked energy to run. However, in Battlestar Galactica, it appeared that for small-craft weapons you pretty much had a choice between missiles and some kind of plasma-in-a-magnetic-bottle weapon. For missiles, a kinetic-kill system is kind of pointless -- even air-to-air missiles today don't rely on the missile itself actually hitting its target -- so a high-explosive or small nuke warhead is what you'd expect to see.
I expect that we're never going to get told why neither side uses kinetic-kill systems for the fighters' primary weapons, although I would guess that an energy weapon will have a point at which the 'projectile' dissipates; a kinetic-kill weapon in space would keep going, producing widely-ranging hazard zones from old battles.
Re:Physics (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, there's little point in using them against fighters, but then fighters are unlikely to provide a good defense against one.
Basically if you have a decently large ship like a Battlestar, it can only accellerate so much, which limits its range of possible vectors. So you have a pretty good idea of where it's going to be in the near future, since it would take so long to make significant course changes.
Thus, you want to send something to ram in
Re:Physics (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:GET ME SOME BULLETS!!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:My thoughts on BSG revisited (Score:3, Insightful)
That you're objecting to a work's ripping off (among other things) The Matrix and Terminator smacks of the most delicious kind of irony.