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Mozilla Foundation's Future: No Mozilla Suite 1.8

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the calling-it-quits dept.

Mozilla 486

batb0y writes "The Mozilla Foundation has published its Mozilla Application Suite transition plan, confirming that there will be no official Mozilla 1.8 release. There will be a 1.7.6 release to be maintained by the Mozilla Foundation. All future suite versions from the Foundation will be minor updates only." Don't despair, however, as there is already a community effort underway to continue development.

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Mozilla Suite is Dead! (1)

Nuclear Elephant (700938) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905818)

Long Live Mozilla Suite!

Re:Mozilla Suite is Dead! (4, Funny)

Raul654 (453029) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905845)

It's not dead - Netcraft hasn't uttered a word yet ;)

Re:Mozilla Suite is Dead! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905904)

I wouldn't put too much stock in Netcraft. After all, they think you don't exist [netcraft.com] .

Have a good one. :)

Re:Mozilla Suite is Dead! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905997)

Parent is not true:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=you.ca/ [netcraft.com]

Re:Mozilla Suite is Dead! (4, Funny)

Curtman (556920) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905927)

It's not dead

To quote Firefox's "about:mozilla" URI:

  • And so at last the beast
  • fell and the unbelievers rejoiced. But all was not lost, for from the ash rose a great bird. The bird gazed down upon the unbelievers and cast fire and thunder upon them. For the beast had been reborn with its strength renewed, and the followers of Mammon cowered in horror.
    - from The Book of Mozilla, 7:15

Re:Mozilla Suite is Dead! (5, Informative)

Duct Tape Jedi (802164) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906054)

Here is a link to The Book of Mozilla [mozilla.org]

stick a fork in it. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905823)

Did someone say "fork" ?

Re:stick a fork in it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906113)

No, "bend over..."

I won't believe it (5, Funny)

Neil Blender (555885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905824)

Until it doesn't happen

DUPE (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905830)

DUPE

Firefox forever! (4, Interesting)

qewl (671495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905831)

I guess now we now for sure where the foundanion is headed. The new Netscape can probably take the place of a lot of the suite.

Re:Firefox forever! (2, Funny)

Nuclear Elephant (700938) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905861)

I guess now we now for sure where the foundanion is headed. The new Netscape can probably take the place of a lot of the suite.

Congratulations, you completely bastardized the intelligence of the typical mid-twenties slashdotter by defecating all over our spelling and grammar rules with a single sentence.

Re:Firefox forever! (1)

Nuclear Elephant (700938) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905881)

s/slashdotter/netscape user/

Re:Firefox forever! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905929)

Don't tell me you've never heard of Athos, Porthos, Aramis, and their friend Foundanion!

Re:Firefox forever! (2, Funny)

mooingyak (720677) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906055)

I thought of it more as one of Santa's Reindeer. On Prancer! On Dasher! On Foundanion!

Re:Firefox forever! (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905946)

What the hell does that mean?

Re:Firefox forever! (1)

Neoncow (802085) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906111)

It is the search and replace command for certain Unix text editors.

s/<word_to_find>/<word_to_replace>/

Re:Firefox forever! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906163)

And does it work to slashdot posts?

No?

So why post it?

yo (2, Insightful)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906102)

That should be spelled as "congratumalations." FYI.

Re:Firefox forever! (4, Informative)

bofkentucky (555107) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905879)

Umm, netscape 8 is based on Firefox/Thunderbird.

Re:Firefox forever! (0, Flamebait)

kernel_dan (850552) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906107)

I guess now we now for sure where the foundanion is headed. The new Netscape can probably take the place of a lot of the suite.

This is moderated interesting because of the contortions your brain must undergo to understand what the poster typed out.

but continuation of the suite by community process (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905833)

So not all is lost :)

No... (2, Insightful)

Trillan (597339) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905944)

If Mozilla Suite had community enough to support it, they would have been integrated into the Mozilla Foundation to begin with. That it's been dropped like this shows there are plent of people willing to talk about supporting it, but not enough people willing to actually do it.

Mind you, maybe this will shake some supporters out that didn't realize things were in such rough shape.

That sucks (4, Insightful)

Tet (2721) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905837)

I may not use the mail, news or chat parts of the suite, but the browser rocks. Firefox has done wonders for popularizing the Gecko rendering engine, but Mozilla is still the better browser. Let's hope Firefox can come up to speed soon.

Re:That sucks (1)

christopherfinke (608750) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905863)

What exactly do you like more about Mozilla than Firefox? I used to use Mozilla only and didn't like Firefox, but now I can't stand Mozilla and use Firefox exclusively.

Re:That sucks (4, Informative)

Rick_T (3816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905902)

> What exactly do you like more about Mozilla than
> Firefox?

One thing I like is searching or entering URLs in a single large bar. By default, Firefox has separate search and URL bars on the same line, which mean you can see less of the search term/url you're entering.

My wife says that it's easier for her to open tabs with the mouse from mozilla (the new tab button is immediately obvious to her in Mozilla, but not in Firefox).

Re:That sucks (1)

daeley (126313) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905952)

Well, get rid of the search form widget and type "google foobar" in your location bar. Or "imdb foobar" or whatever. Read up on Quick Searches and create your own.

Re:That sucks (1)

snorklewacker (836663) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906029)

If they stopped stubbornly adhering to that dumb "I'm feeling lucky" default, you wouldn't even need to type "google". I fixed it myself, manually, but of course I have to do so in every profile. I now just type searches into the location bar myself, having long ago given up the pretension that one should only use the interface for its "proper" function. When the interface DWIMs what I type, and I understand the DWIM mechanism so it doesn't surprise me, I'm damn sure going to let it DWIM. (That's "Do What I Mean", BTW)

On the opposite end, my gf still stubbornly prefixes all urls she types into the location bar with "http://" and chides me for doing otherwise. She also types probably five times faster than me though, so it's nothing to her...

Re:That sucks (1)

christopherfinke (608750) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905956)

You know, those were the two things that were hardest for me in switching over, when I eventually did, but I rarely think of them now. I especially like Firefox's tie-in with Google's "I'm Feeling Lucky" option though.

Re:That sucks (1)

Curtman (556920) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905995)

My wife says that it's easier for her to open tabs with the mouse from mozilla

Whats wrong with middle mouse button? It works on bookmarks as well as links.

Re:That sucks (2, Informative)

Denyer (717613) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906077)

One thing I like is searching or entering URLs in a single large bar

Just edit keyword.URL to http://www.google.com/search?q=

about:config is a lovely thing. Rather like things such as TweakUI for Windows, the defaults are fine for most people, but there are few little extra enhancements that can be easily made, and which appear in plenty of hints & tips guides.

You Do Realize (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906079)

that the new tab button can be added to Firefox by right clicking on the button toolbar, customize and drag the button onto it?

Re:That sucks (-1, Flamebait)

notthe9 (800486) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906086)

If you don't like it, stop whining and rewrite it yourself.

Re:That sucks (2, Insightful)

SCVirus (774240) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906090)

So lets have someone spend ten minutes and make a mozilla skin for firefox.

Re:That sucks (4, Insightful)

SerialEx13 (605554) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905942)

Firefox for the most part appears as a dumbed down version of Mozilla Navigator. Kind of like comparing Windows XP and Windows 2000. Many of the options in Firefox have been removed from the Preferences. This requires more changes to be made in about:config. Firefox enables options that are similar to IE by default (resiszing images). Firefox's default download behaviour of automatically downloading has forced people who I've gotten to try and move away from IE to end up moving back because they get rather annoyed that they aren't asked where to download a file. One user's problems got even worse when it decided to switch between saving to his Desktop and Home folder. Mozilla doesn't have an annoying tiny search bar! I rather prefer being able to type long queries and see the whole text and simply either click Search or press Up and then Enter. Many people also tend to forget that when you install the Suite you have the option to not install components such as the Mail client. Whenever I install it, I only install the browser portion.

Re:That sucks (1)

ClamChwdrMan (790007) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905874)

I feel about the same here. I just hope that the upcoming FireFox is based on what was to become Mozilla 1.8 as was originally planned. It's quite a bit faster than FireFox is right now.

Re:That sucks (4, Interesting)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905893)

Yes. Mozilla as a browser is still much more customizable than Firefox -- or hell, I don't know, maybe it isn't, but its customization works in a way I find instantly understandable, which isn't the case for FF -- and I for one like the interface a lot better. FF, like Safari, looks like it's trying to be IE. People may bitch about how "Mozilla looks like the old Netscape," but you know, it was the old Netscape that popularized the Web. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re:That sucks (3, Insightful)

Bradac_55 (729235) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906162)

"FF, like Safari, looks like it's trying to be IE."

That's the point, create an open source browser that looks similar to IE and then do a better job than MS. That's the real strength of the Firefox team. They've made the Windows version the primary development product over the Linux and Mac versions. Once the Window version is at an acceptable level work on the others (not that the Linux version is worse, but the same can't be said of the Mac version).

Once the common home users start making the switch in mass it's easier to show them other projects like OpenOffice, etc. Then after they are accustomed to looking for and using Open Source projects it'll be easier to move them to a Linux distro.

- Brad

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905840)

First Post

Not to mention... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905846)

More to the point, the Mozilla foundation is dealing with a whole bunch of products from the original Mozilla suite (Thunderbird, Firefox, Sunbird, and others). What would be the point of pulling Firefox away from that?

It seems like the Mozilla Foundation made a decision that they preferred the Firefox development model. Firefox, Thunderbird, and Sunbird are set to be the *new* Mozilla suite, and the old one is in maintenance mode. It seems like this is comparable to people complaining that Microsoft isn't putting enough development into Windows 3.1.... Well, yeah, it's the old product that they've discontinued.

Now, it's all open source, so if someone wants to work on it, go ahead. But why people are trying to convince the Mozilla foundation to offload their new, exciting, successful, popular line-up of software and head back to what's become a bit of a dead-end, I don't know.

Re:Not to mention... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905867)

Could someone beg and plead with them to port the whole thing over to OS 9?

Re:Not to mention... (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906053)

Why are you still using OS9? The only time I use it is to play the old bungie games, and that doesn't count because I'm running OSX at the same time.

Re:Not to mention... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905955)

Fuck - can we pretend NOT to cut and paste from prior posts, mod parent down - repeatative.

Re:Not to mention... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905957)

jesus christ even the posts are now dupes. fuck this shit. i may as well be high watchin tv.

No problem. (1, Offtopic)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905868)

There is Firefox 1.0 and the soon to be 1.1 and if Mozilla 1.8 will not be there, theremight be 1.9 or 2.0 since development continues. Right?

Good job! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905869)

Another fine example of an open source business!

Re:Good job! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905885)

Another fine example of an open source business!

Another fine example of an open source business!</without_sarcasm>

Suggestion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905884)

For all the people complaining about Firefox/Mozilla being developed too slowly, the `interesting decision processes in the Foundation, the lacking of features needed for corporate roll-outs, the high barrier to entry to developing for it, how about an open mailing-list Linus/Linux-kernel development model KHTML-based browser for Windows which uses native widgets?

Uuh... (5, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905890)

From TFA:

Our primary concern in the short term is with being able to ship a SeaMonkey front end on
top of a Gecko


That doesn't sound like a developer's list, that sounds like a post on alt.sex.zoophilia.

So? (5, Insightful)

the pickle (261584) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905897)

Honest question. What does it matter? Is there some great advantage that I'm not thinking of to having a giant bundled suite of apps, rather than five or six individual downloads?

As long as there's good interoperability -- and I don't see how this decision is going to hurt that -- does it really matter whether there are five apps that each do one thing or one app that does five things?

p

Re:So? (2, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905913)

Is there some great advantage that I'm not thinking of to having a giant bundled suite of apps, rather than five or six individual downloads?

You get it in one giant download, instead of five or six measly, unsatisfactory ones...

Re:So? (1)

christopherfinke (608750) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905972)

This is one of the reasons I like Firefox. You don't have to download all of the other packages. I wish OpenOffice were written in a way to allow you to only download/install individual components of the suite...

Re:So? (3, Insightful)

SerialEx13 (605554) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906004)

Neither does the Mozilla Suite force you to. Download the net installer and just download Navigator.

Re:So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905926)

multiply GREs.

why do I have two? if ff is open, so is tb.

Re:So? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906025)

It's not so much about the downloads as about what's running on your system.

With Mozilla Suite, you can have a browser, mail client, chat client, addressbook, and calendar open, all running on one gecko rendering engine. Or you can have some subset thereof, still on one gecko engine.

To compare against the individual apps, you'll have Firefox on gecko, Thunderbird & addressbook on Gecko, Sunbird on Gecko, and Chatzilla as an extension to one of the above.

Re:So? (3, Informative)

Matt Perry (793115) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906064)

Honest question. What does it matter? Is there some great advantage that I'm not thinking of to having a giant bundled suite of apps, rather than five or six individual downloads?
It's not just the bundling. I use the suite but all I have installed is the browser component. I just like the suite's browser better than Firefox.

Re:So? (1)

gregmac (629064) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906139)

Honest question. What does it matter? Is there some great advantage that I'm not thinking of to having a giant bundled suite of apps, rather than five or six individual downloads?

There's no reason there can't be a "bundle" installer, that installs all the programs in one go (and one download).

I think it's a good thing they moved away from the all-in-one application. It's nicer to pick and choose individual apps. The best illustration of this that comes to mind is StarOffice: version 5.2, the major new feature was that it had a new integrated desktop, and all the apps were combined together in one giant executable. In version 6 (the next major release IIRC) the major new feature was no more integrated desktop, and all the apps were split apart ;)

Re:So? (1)

Matt Clare (692178) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906164)

Stubborn zealots have been doing it for years.

Obligatory Matrix Reference (0, Offtopic)

slipnslidemaster (516759) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905916)



All things that have a beginning, have an end.

Re:Obligatory Matrix Reference (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906122)

Except for the beginning of that rule.

'cause then there would be an end to all things beggining having endings, and therefore things that became in the future may not neccissarily have an end. Or something.

Uh back on topic... mozilla suite firefox gecko fork netscape etc etc etc.

Let me get this straight. (4, Insightful)

blamanj (253811) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905923)

As I read this:

1) Mozilla (suite) is dead. Long live Firefox.
2) Gecko lives as the main development focus.
3) Mozilla (suite) will be born again as Seamonkey, but won't be high visibility.

From a development point of view, this may make sense. From a branding point of view, it seems odd. It appears that the Mozilla "brand" is being de-emphasized in favor of the individual component names. While Firefox is a memorable name, it seems like a loss not to take advantage of the Mozilla name recognition.

Re:Let me get this straight. (1)

boarder8925 (714555) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905985)

From a branding point of view, it seems odd. It appears that the Mozilla "brand" is being de-emphasized in favor of the individual component names. While Firefox is a memorable name, it seems like a loss not to take advantage of the Mozilla name recognition.
Maybe that's because Mozilla Suite is abbreviated as "MS." Then again, if they emphasize "Mozilla Seamonkey" instead of "Seamonkey," the decision makes no sense.

Re:Let me get this straight. (1)

Tezkah (771144) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905993)

From what I've heard, there may not be anymore "Firefox" and "Thunderbird".

There was plans to rename them as "Mozilla Browser" and "Mozilla Mail".

And lo and behold, my hunch is correct.

From the branding strategy [mozilla.org] :
Use the names "Mozilla Browser" and "Mozilla Mail" to describe the Firefox and Thunderbird projects after the 1.4 release.

So there will be Mozilla Firefox 1.4, but 1.5 and so on will be called Mozilla Browser. Firefox's popularity might change these plans though.

Re:Let me get this straight. (2, Informative)

cortana (588495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906035)

That's talking about the 1.4 release of Mozilla. The page you reference is about 35 years out of date.

Re:Let me get this straight. (2, Insightful)

MasterOfDisaster (248401) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906104)

Changing brand names at this pont would be ten kinds of retarded. A few every day people are starting to realize that there's an internet outside of Internet Explorer. Fewer still are realizing that firefox exitsts. To change brand names again will kill any chance they have of gaining a substantial amount of mindshare.

Re:Let me get this straight. (1)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906112)

Did you look at the timestamp on that file? 25-Apr-2003

I say keep the goddamn names as they are, maybe with the exception of having the Suite branch off as a separate project, perhaps as SeaMonkey. But don't disrupt the marketing and the image. You have three very striking project names, with three striking images. Keep them.

Sorry, minority opinion here. (1)

rhizome (115711) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906048)

It's got a great and long history, but I think the plain truth is that the word "Mozilla" sucks. It was funny in the Netscape 4.x days, "Huh huh, mozilla. Netscape rulez," but it now sounds like a nerdy in-joke. While valuable to the culture of the developers and OG users, there's just no way I could bring myself to tell people, "I use Mozilla browser and email." An irrational personal problem to be sure, but what's so wrong with the animals? Their icons are certainly better and more identifiable.

Re:Let me get this straight. (3, Interesting)

bwthomas (796211) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906074)

While Firefox is a memorable name, it seems like a loss not to take advantage of the Mozilla name recognition.

That's just crazy talk. In terms of branding the name 'Firefox' has what 'Mozilla' never really had: buzz. Even people that call IE "The internet" have heard about Firefox, even if they don't know what it is. Firefox, as a brand, has momentum.

They would be much better served if they called their organization "Mozilla", their stack of applications "the Mozilla Suite", and left the individual names alone.

Re:Let me get this straight. (1)

DraconPern (521756) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906127)

I don't think it's odd that they are de-emphasizing the Mozilla brand. AOL is now resurrecting the Netscape brand, I have already gotten a few CD's from AOL touting the 'Netscape Internet Service' That said, it is in their interest to downplay the Mozilla brand, but still keep Gecko development going.

Re:Let me get this straight. (2, Informative)

snorklewacker (836663) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906158)

> While Firefox is a memorable name, it seems like a loss not to take advantage of the Mozilla name recognition.

You: Oh yes, Mozilla, of course itself a name pun on Mosaic, when Marc Andreesen couldn't call it Mosaic anymore what with it being connected to UIUC and all, so he started developing a new commercial browser, calling it "Mozilla". Well, of course that didn't make a respectable brand, but if you look in the old Netscape readme files, you'll see "It's spelled N-E-T-S-C-A-P-E but it's pronounced `Mozilla'". (Polishes glasses, looks off to the distance) Ahh, those were the days.

The Public: Mo-who? Is it like that Firefox I saw in The New York Times?

What A Supprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905924)

Jesus - It was coming from the minute the number of people supporting Firefox outnumbered Mozilla 2:1 - that was a while back now..

ah well - now lets see the spyware target firefox...

Re:What A Supprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905945)

Jesus supports IE...

Firefox needs Moz suite components (4, Interesting)

linebackn (131821) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905950)

Firefox was supposed to be the replacement for the Mozilla suite for a long time now, but I find it a tad lacking because the e-mail client is separate, and is the composer even being maintained any more by anybody? It wouldn't be such a big deal if Firefox had all of that included. (as optional components of course).

I am also still not crazy about some of the new features in Firefox 1.0, but I imagine these will be worked out in time.

Perhaps now that they are officially abandoning the suite and focusing in one direction, there will be more of a push to include or exclude features to make former suite users happier.

Re:Firefox needs Moz suite components (4, Informative)

koreth (409849) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906039)

No, Firefox is the replacement for the browser part of the Mozilla suite. The whole point is that it doesn't include those other pieces.

Thunderbird is the replacement for the e-mail part of the Mozilla suite. Nvu is (arguably) the replacement for the editor part of the suite. Et cetera.

Re:Firefox needs Moz suite components (3, Informative)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906060)

The composer is alive and it's being maintained [glazman.org] actively [nvu.com] .

The current version is 1.0-Beta, and it's much better than any alternative I've seen in the OSS world, much better than mozilla's equivalent. Take a look [nvu.com] or download [nvu.com] it.

Re:Firefox needs Moz suite components (1)

fhic (214533) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906142)

is the composer even being maintained any more by anybody?

In Oct 2003, Michael "short attention span" Robertson announced [linspire.com] a that he was funding a plan to create a replacement for Microsoft's FrontPage, called NVU [nvu.com] that was based on the original Composer code. It's been sitting in beta ever since. Rumor has it that it's being developed by one programmer who shares his time with other projects. It's supposedly at 1.0 beta (actually version 0.8) but it's been sitting there since last year. It may not be abandonware, but it's as close as it can be. Needless to say, it's got no hope of ever being a FrontPage-killer....

Isn't Mozilla a repackaging of Firefox et al? (2, Interesting)

panaceaa (205396) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905954)

Can someone please explain what the Mozilla Foundation did, and why it is being discontinued? I thought, in the most recent versions, the Mozilla suite was Firefox and Thunderbird and the other mozilla.org projects bundled together. Or was Mozilla still the old Gecko code from before it was pulled out and put into a stand-alone browser?

Does this announcement mean that bundles of all the Mozilla suite pieces will no longer be created, or is the old architecture of the Mozilla browser going away? Is some other group or project going to do the bundling instead?

Thanks for answering my questions!

Re:Isn't Mozilla a repackaging of Firefox et al? (1)

paulbiz (585489) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906006)

I believe it's the other way around. The seperate programs are based on (an older version of?) Mozilla.

Re:Isn't Mozilla a repackaging of Firefox et al? (5, Informative)

arthurs_sidekick (41708) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906031)

Mozilla == the successor to Netscape Communicator. It spoke HTTP(s), SMTP, POP, IMAP, IRC and other stuff. It was the original "kitchen sink" wrapper around the Gecko HTML/XML rendering engine.

Firefox and Thunderbird were split off as standalone apps that embedded the Gecko rendering component and a few other goodies from the original Mozilla suite, but they've always been their own critters, from an application standpoint.

So, now it looks like major development on Gecko-based products is going to be on apps that do one small cluster of things well, instead of a large app that does lots of things.

clear 'nuff?

Good thinking! (4, Insightful)

SteelV (839704) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905964)

Obviously the stand-alone apps like Firefox and Thunderbird are where the future's at. They aren't quite as bloatetd, and allow the user to choose what he wants. It also isn't as difficult for me to tell my friend to download a new browser (firefox) and try it out. Try telling him to download a whole software Suite when he might be using a webmail like outlook, and another calendar program! Never going to happen :)

Re:Good thinking! (1)

Martin Blank (154261) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906021)

I'm inclined to agree with this. What I think should probably be added is a modular API that will allow developers to code applications in such a way as to be easily added to or subtracted from the suite, with corresponding icons appearing sort of Mozilla-style at the bottom of the window (or wherever the theme allows). Say someone wants a browser and calendar program, but uses GMail for correspondence. OK, download Firefox and Sunbird and plug them together. Or perhaps they want an Outlook replacement, but prefer Opera. They can then use Thunderbird and Sunbird. The list of possibilities goes on, and it would allow additional modules -- maybe for IM, or RSS, or whatever -- to be added in to the user's content.

I guess it would be sort of like super-extensions.

Not a major issue (2, Insightful)

Todd Knarr (15451) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905967)

Reading everything, this looks like a minor issue. They're just saying "Mozilla-the-suite is going away. If you want a browser, use Firefox. If you want mail/news, use Thunderbird.". The code isn't going away, if I read it right, just the one-big-suite front-end as a product on it's own.

Makes sense, but (2, Interesting)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905970)

It is natural that they would want to eventually stop maintaining two seperate product lines.

But, it was nice having an integrated suite. Perhaps they could offer a suite of firefox/tbird/sbird/composer? Preferably they would all share common code like Gecko.

The Death Knell (3, Interesting)

hacker (14635) | more than 9 years ago | (#11905973)

But why? Before you mod me down, hold on a second...

Mozilla's suite, speaking just about the browser component, is FAR superior to what Firefox offers. Not only are there many more options for security, cookies, Javascript, saving form data, and many other things... that killing the suite, even if it was just this ONE component, would really be a bad move on their part.

Personally, I don't like Firefox at all. Even though they're both based on the Gecko engine, Firefox renders CSS much differently than Mozilla in some cases. Mozilla tends to be more accurate with placement. Its not as flexible, and it just looks plain ugly (as compared to Mozilla again, even with the same theme).

I can't speak for the other parts, because I only use the browser component of the Mozilla suite (and I'm a full-time, very-pedantic, anal-about-standards, web developer, so I can speak with absolute authority on this; my internal QA/test suite includes 13 browsers before I release a site to a client). Firefox, while great as an MSIE replacement, can't even remotely compare to what the Mozilla Suite browser component offers.

Don't kill the Mozilla Suite, please, and if you do, at least keep the Mozilla Browser component around.

Re:The Death Knell (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906092)

Actually, the failure of mozilla and the success of firefox in a way reflects the failure of Linux and the success of Windows. 99% of computer users have no use for all those features of Mozilla. They want an app that just works and doesn't need, or want configuration. FF fits the bill, small, simple.

Windows comes in basically one flavor, you install it or buy a computer with it installed and that about the end of the configuration, then it's all about using Photoshop, or Word.

Re:The Death Knell (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906106)

Firefox is currently using an older version of Gecko

The latest version will be fully integrated in 1.1 and will in fact be one of the major upgrades of 1.1

As far as I know, this is the reason FF renders differently, so it should be the same as Seamonkey by then

no 4GB files though (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11905992)

until either of them support downloading 4GB files, they can both kiss my ass pipe. they are kids' browsers. they need to man up.

How Fitting: (5, Interesting)

homeobocks (744469) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906007)

In Douglas Coupland's book "Microserfs", "Seamonkeys" is a term used to describe a project that is never going to be completed.

Re:How Fitting: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906056)

I don't get it. Why?

Don't put too much hope in the community effort. (2, Informative)

Trillan (597339) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906013)

The Mozilla Foundation has been looking for people to work on the Mozilla Suite for a while now. Nothing prevented people from doing work on it.

That it was killed indicates there just wasn't enough support to continue it.

Thus, the help for the community is limited to those who either were not aware help was needed, or are willing to work on a rebranded Mozilla Suite (it's trademarked, isn't it?) but not on the original Mozilla Suite while the Mozilla Foundation drove it.

In short, new developers and people who fork for the sake of forking.

This FP fOr GNAA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906014)

sta8tling turn [goat.cx]

Is this really an issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906027)

We used to use Mozilla suite, now we use Firefox and Thunderbird. The migration was easy and we like Firefox + Thunderbird combination better than the original Mozilla suite.

Don't really see what the big deal is.

Camino (1)

buckhead_buddy (186384) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906040)

Does anyone know if this will impact Camino [jasperhauser.nl] (the Mac OS X front-end using a Gecko backend). It sounds like they've already had to make a leap similar to what the SeaMonkey effort appears to be contemplating now, but even with just a voluntary effort these changes may be significant.

Josh [mozillazine.org] (one of Mozilla's recent hires) posted what sounded like great news about Camino's short and medium term release cycle back on March 5. But these latest revelations may have raised some employment questions for guys like him and Mike [mozillazine.org] . Camino is mostly (completely?) volunteer right now, but even in that light job insecurity can raise questions in how much one can volunteer.

What about Firefox? (2, Interesting)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906066)

Does this mean there will be no more Firefox and the whole mozilla/gecko/whatever has stopped or that only the bundled mozilla suite will stop and it will continue as firefox, thunderbird etc? If only the bundled suite has stopped, how does this affect firefox etc? Doesn't firefox etc benifit from the development of the mozilla suite by taking much code from mozilla suite?

I don't see what the fuss is about (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906069)

They announced 2 YEARS ago that this was going to happen.

People have had plenty of time to organise a continuation of SeaMonkey...now the time has come for them to take up the reigns, they are crying about it!

Re:I don't see what the fuss is about (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906145)

Yes, and in a matter of weeks after announcing it they changed their minds.

Google Conspiracy? (5, Funny)

sho222 (834270) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906101)

Can someone please tie this into a Google conspiracy for me? I don't understand /. articles unless they somehow involve Google taking over the world.

Re:Google Conspiracy? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11906154)

Well Google now pay the wages of the lead Firefox Engineer...

Clearly they have also engineered the discontinuation of Seamonkey so that everyone focuses on firefox which they now control..

It's all falling into place....

*puts on tinfoil hat*

They should keep the brand (4, Insightful)

teslatug (543527) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906128)

They should keep the brand Mozilla, by maybe offering a package of Thunderbird, Firefox, and friends, and calling that Mozilla (Suite?). It's not going to be as integrated, but at least they're not losing the brand name (for which so many people have fought for a long time).

Fumble at the goalline (4, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 9 years ago | (#11906161)

Aren't they saying that they're transforming the project from an "suite" of Mozilla browser and Thunderbird mail/news, with lockstep releases, into ongoing Firefox development, and ongoing Thunderbird development? With ongoing maintenance of Mozilla 1.7.x, turned over to the community (not funded or directed by the old group)?

All their announcements (posted by different people, linked to other websites for "clarification") talk about a failure to communicate expectations to developers, consumers, members of the team. Well, this announcement is confusing, and exactly the reason why corporations continue to consume inferior Microsoft crap: because Microsoft clearly communicates what will be released, so corporate IT can plan around it. Even when Microsoft lies about releases, they give a clear communication for PHBs to use in their management jobs. Which is the number one priority for success in corporate environments.

This transformation might very well produce a continuing improvement in Internet client apps, as the project team members claim. (Though the separation of the Internet Search field from the Get URL field from Mozilla -> Firefox will surely cripple my own productivity :(.) But announcing the transformation in terms of the demise of the organization, and "I'm sorry there will be no next version", is a total fumble. It will scare off consumers, and developers. I just hope that loss doesn't reduce Firefox's momentum below the critical mass it's developed, just before Microsoft releases their (probably competitive) next version of Internet Explorer. Accompanied, of course, by the maximum PR and documentation to exploit the Mozilla fumble.
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