Bram Cohen to Release BitTorrent Search Engine 420
AI Playground writes "Within two weeks, a BitTorrent search engine will be available at BitTorrent.com. From the Wired News article: 'Bram Cohen and a small cadre of developers and entrepreneurs are in the final stage of launching an advertising-supported search engine dedicated to cataloging and indexing the thousands of movies, music tracks, software programs and other files for download over Cohen's popular BitTorrent protocol.'"
Google isn't enough! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Google isn't enough! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Google isn't enough! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Google isn't enough! (Score:5, Insightful)
Torrent Club (Score:3, Funny)
2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about TORRENT CLUB.
3rd RULE: If some tracker says "unreachable", goes offline, or cannot scrape, the torrent is over.
4th RULE: Many seeders to a torrent.
5th RULE: Many torrents at a time.
6th RULE: Shirts and Shoes optional.
7th RULE: Torrents will go on as long as they can.
8th RULE: If this is your first night at TORRENT CLUB, you HAVE to download.
Re:Google isn't enough! (Score:3, Insightful)
They're going to name it... (Score:4, Insightful)
RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of people said this sort of thing when DeCSS hit. To sum up:
Cat's out of the bag, and
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
That is
There's nothing anyone can do about it anymore. He's not fooling anyone. Dude obviously needs to eat, and he's making a sponsored search engine. All I can say is "kaching".
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:5, Funny)
Is this another damned KDE utility? Don't we already have enough caching utilities?
-Jam
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:3)
You upload your file and let it propagate and if your server ever goes down then no need to fear as you have most likely hundreds if not thousands of people hosting it for you
I think its just a logical step
bittorent does not need legitamising
A tool is a tool , you can use a tool set to build weapons or you can use it to help construct a shed
The
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:3, Insightful)
"They wanna call me a thief, I'll *show* them a thief."
Honestly, they're going to demonize Bittorrent no matter what he does. They control the mainstream media, remember? For instance, take the Star Wars 3 piracy -- every single article I read on that very prominantly mentioned Bittorrent, often several times.
It doesn't matter that Bittorrent itself is legit, they don't want us even thinking about ways we could possibly subvert their hold on entertainment.
As fo
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:2)
So
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:3, Informative)
Related to that are various agency rules that apply for works which aren't government works, but which do involve government funding. And also the due process guarantees of the 14th amendment and various state laws could preclude copyrights on various forms of state laws, rules, caselaw, etc.
There's al
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they've been subjected to legal blackmail, i.e.,"shut down the site or we'll sue you for $XXX,000." There has not yet even been a lawsuit of copyright infringement against an individual in the US. (IANAL, but at least with respect to "modern" copyright infringement, i.e. sharing via P2P, I believe I am correct.) And until someone significantly rich is threatened with a lawsuit, we probably won't see one.
Maybe you call this "successful legal action." I call it bullying. Give me your milk money or I'll beat you up.
Re:RIAA to release lawsuit in two weeks. (Score:4, Funny)
bo
Actually... (Score:5, Informative)
So the search engine will actually become a benefit for the RIAA. Which I'm perfectly OK with, since Cohen never intended BT to be a pirate tool.
Re:Actually... (Score:5, Interesting)
So the search engine will actually become a benefit for the RIAA. Which I'm perfectly OK with, since Cohen never intended BT to be a pirate tool.
I'm firmly in this camp here. For instance, downloading a copy of ROTS is patently illegal. Ditto for the rest of the **AA stuffs.
If, with this 'search engine', the **AA folks actually have a better tool to be used to go after the infringers, and it leads to a general cleaning up of the currant situation by virtue of the takedown notices that sites that do have the material will receive, and the filing of suits for a *reasonable* level of damages against the receivers of such material, then I see this as a net positive development.
BTW, my view of reasonable, provided the receiver hasn't passed on any further copies, is no more than 10 times the cost of a theater ticket to see the show, times the number of people living in that household.
That, and court costs, but no attorneys fees. Costs will probably exceed the damages that **AA will recover, and it will send a strong enough message to the average person, but it will not be a significant item in the **AA members bottom line. Net losses could well eat any profits from doing the civil suit, so it turns into a CODB for them, and something to minimize.
OTOH, the takedown notice should be delivered in the form of a site-wide machine seizure, then followed up with a civil suit, based on the forensic data recoverable from the site that would give a good picture of how many times it was downloaded from that site. That would often lead to a net profit making it a worthwhile item on the quarterly report. This of course mixes the criminal and civil aspects, so its not that simple. Really, it should be, but combining that would put a lot of expensive legal people on the bread lines so the chances of that happening are somewhere between zip and point double ought (excrement).
However, if the **AA make the mistake of going after the program itself, then I would hope the courts have sense enough to toss it out. That however, would appear to depend on how many judges they have on a leash, and what the leash is made of.
The program has the potential to do much good, and I cannot see that true justice is being served in any venue that attempts to control 100% of its use.
--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Re:Actually... (Score:3)
They dont have any rights as far as im concerned. None. Zero. Zilch.
And in related news.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Doesn't Bram Cohen see this coming?
Re:And in related news.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And in related news.... (Score:2)
Maybe because Google has its own money and lawyers?
Mabye because Bram can be made an example to show other people what happens when you try to take software development and innovation into your own hands.
Slashdot May 24th 2005 (Score:4, Funny)
The mysterious letters 'RIAA' An 'MPAA' were found branded on his still quivering bottom.
Re:Slashdot May 24th 2005 (Score:5, Insightful)
Wonderful idea (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Nonsense. With Napster the problem was that it was a device for exchanging illegal content. The judge found that the small amount of legal content was nothing more than an excuse to allow for illegal wares.
In the case of BitTorrent, it has a LOT of uses that are perfectly legal. That is what this search engine is targetting. Want the entire Mozilla source tarball? BitTorrent it. Trying to get the latest 180MB release of Privateer Remake? [solsector.net] BitTorrent it. OpenOffice, Mozilla, FreeBSD, Linux, America's Army, Doom III demo, Star Wars Fan Films, Star Trek New Missions videos, the list just goes on and on. BitTorrent is a response to the ever growing size of these files more than a method of distributing illegal wares. It just happens to work well for the illegal stuff as well.
The result is that a judge will no more condemn it than he would condemn the entire Internet.
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:2)
might i recommend that you read the article?
But Navin isn't worried -- because the new search engine indexes every torrent it can find without human intervention, the company can't be held liable for results that happen to point to infringing content, he says. Lemley says that's probably right, at least as a matter of law: The Digital Millennium Copyright Act provides safe harbor for "
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:2)
I did. Note how the CEO used "Mozilla" as an example, while Wired blathered on about illegal content.
Their business model is to make money by displaying advertising on their search results page (hmmm, where have we seen this before?). They couldn't or shouldn't care less about what they index as long as they draw the traffic. In the long run, they might change their attitude due to legal harassment, but the existence of a single authoritative search engine has
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:2)
Which is why i mentioned possible legal harassment - basically being bombarded by "un list this torrent" mails. Of course they could do the google thing and link to copies of the complaints on chillingeffects.org. I remember (in a vague and non-url backed way) stories about people receiving automated cease and des
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Indeed. Although one has to wonder if it wouldn't become a feedback loop? i.e. As torrents become more accessable, it will probably encourage some types of content creators to use it. Which would only lead to more tools (perhaps a built in Torrent download manager in Mozilla?) which would then encourage even more content. If things do look bleak at first, it may be a very short time before they don't.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:2)
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:5, Interesting)
I think Bram is going to seek the same protections most search engines enjoy. No doubt if a suit came out, he would argue that he is only linking to files that link to peers. This is no more illegal than the "filetype:torrent" option on Google, and that has never been challenged. It would essentially be akin to outlawing
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wonderful idea (Score:2)
The problem is that you don't need a special torrent search engine for the legal content, google does fine, you only need one for the illegal content. So unless they are working really hard on blocking all obvious illegal content I don't see how this should survive for more then a few weeks, other torrent indexes have already been targeted for exactly that reason.
Sue Me Please (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sue Me Please (Score:2)
Now that it's going to have torrent search, that chest size bulls-eye is now a bomb size one. It won't be long before the AA's Come knocking on Cohen's door with a CAD or a Lawsuit now.
Oh good going bram (Score:2)
way to open yourself up to legal liabilities
As cool as this might be... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a good idea, and probably going to be a nice piece of software... but right now is probably about the worst time you can release something like this.
Re:As cool as this might be... (Score:2)
And yes, that's a real shame. The original concept of using BT as a legitimate load balancing method was good, but nowadays it's unfeasible since BT is being constantly labeled as a piracy application, and therefore many places block it and because they t
Nice Troll, Wired News (Score:2, Insightful)
"...dedicated to cataloging and indexing the thousands of movies, music tracks, software programs and other files for download..."
Wow, way to troll, Wired "News".
Re:Nice Troll, Wired News (Score:3, Insightful)
I guarantee you that if they start indexing major tracker sites, the majority of what you will see will be exactly that.
Wow, way to point out the obvious Wired News.
Re:Nice Troll, Wired News (Score:5, Funny)
Already been done? (Score:4, Informative)
Second: Torrentsearch.us [torrentsearch.us]
this site already indexes torrents and even has an option to search multiple torrent sites @ once. (beware the enormous java ad)
torrent searches (Score:3, Informative)
Any other good ones out there?
I wonder (Score:4, Funny)
How's he dealing with the legal issues? (Score:3, Insightful)
IANAL (which for years I thought means "I am ANAL", but that's neither here nor there), but Usenet folks can get away with downloading since downloading copyrighted material is not technically illegal - but uploading, or, probably more accurately, distributing copyrighted material without the consent of the intellectual property owner is. So Usenet folks can download Episode III (though why they would is beyond my ken) without fear of lawsuits, but Bittorrent folks, from the second they activate the torrent and upload a packet to someone else, can be considered a distributer under the eyes of the law.
Which is why web sites such as Suprnova.org are now out of business - MPAA came a callin' with their trucks full o' lawyers claiming that giving people access and hosting torrent files is itself a violation of copyright distribution. I guess if Mr. Cohen doesn't host the files himself but merely links to where the files may be found, he could wiggle through that legal loophole.
Either way, good luck - I see a lot of good use for Bittorrent as a method of distributing large files for the masses such as Podcasts or the eventual Video Podcasts that are now popping up, perhaps even as a way to protect against slashdotting (just build bittorrent into web servers and form "unions" to spread the bandwidth or something like this), but I'm not so confident that such as business venture will work out without some legal challenges (whether appropriate or merely standard M/R/IAA "death by lawsuit" tactics).
Re:How's he dealing with the legal issues? (Score:2, Funny)
For all the IANAL lovers, you can download lots of it on the new search engine. Even DP! (which I always thought was Divorce Proceedings)
Re:How's he dealing with the legal issues? (Score:2)
Usenet folks can get away with downloading since downloading copyrighted material is not technically illegal
Yes it is. See 17 USC 501 and 106(1) for the statutory law, and cases such as Napster for the caselaw.
I guess if Mr. Cohen doesn't host the files himself but merely links to where the files may be found, he could wiggle through that legal loophole.
No, t
Re:How's he dealing with the legal issues? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:How's he dealing with the legal issues? (Score:2)
Next Napster (Score:2, Interesting)
I like things how they are, ask you friends, or try torrentsearch.us...
Kevin Poulsen of the Watchman book? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Kevin Poulsen of the Watchman book? (Score:3, Informative)
.Torrent distribution via Usenet? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:.Torrent distribution via Usenet? (Score:2)
It's already been done, but no-one that I know on usenet really uses it - when I do see them, in a high-traffic group, they end up being lost in the noise, probably due to the small size of the torrent itself. .torrent files would more than likely survive usenet better in a 'lower' traffic group that's seen by more ntp servers.
they might be able to survive the higher traffic
Magnet URI's would be better on usenet (Score:3, Interesting)
You would'nt have to distribute the torrent file. A one liner with a Magnet URI address of a torrent swarm managed by the distributed hash schemes networks now in use would be all you would need in the Usenet post.
In fact, I'm rather surprised since the latest version of Azureus supports it (and it's easy to find out what the URI address is of the torrent you are part of..there is an option to copy it to your clipboard in Azureus) that I have'nt seen Magnet URI addresses on websites on web si
Re:Magnet URI's would be better on usenet (Score:3, Interesting)
pop quiz: which of those two harmless pointers is currently "more illegal"? :)
Sinking feeling (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know how it will be justified yet, but it seems like this is exactly what needs to be done to get the lawsuit ball rolling.
How is this different than other sites? (Score:2, Interesting)
This should be interesting to watch unfold... (Score:3, Interesting)
This creates something that BitTorrent has until now lacked, which is a centralized node to target....But Navin isn't worried -- because the new search engine indexes every torrent it can find without human intervention, the company can't be held liable for results that happen to point to infringing content, he says. Lemley says that's probably right, at least as a matter of law: The Digital Millennium Copyright Act provides safe harbor for "information location tools" if administrators promptly remove links to infringing content upon notice by the copyright holder."
Also doe anyone have any technical details on how this works. I mean how do you index a torrent automatically. i.e. If I start a torrent how will the search enginer know?
Re:This should be interesting to watch unfold... (Score:4, Insightful)
For example, if I want to download the latest slackware distro via BitTorrent, I grab the torrent file from slackware.com, and can go knock myself out.
The same applies for any other torrent files... just download them from the source. If the thing is truly freely redistributable, finding that source should be fairly simple... probably can even be done with google if one is genuinely unsure.
Re:This should be interesting to watch unfold... (Score:2)
For example, a search for "linux": http://www.google.com/search?&q=filetype%3Atorren
It's already live! (Score:5, Informative)
Firefox Plugin Available (Score:2)
Why is a torrent search engine required? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why is a torrent search engine required? (Score:2)
Or maybe I'm just curious if there's a demo available for UT2004. How do I find if there's a torrent without looking for it?
Then again, maybe your intuition is a little better than the rest of us. Or maybe you've managed to download Google directly do your brain.
Re:Why is a torrent search engine required? (Score:2)
Re:Why is a torrent search engine required? (Score:2)
Re:Why is a torrent search engine required? (Score:4, Insightful)
Wait, what?
Search != Napster (Score:5, Insightful)
The MPAA has maneuvered to get some torrent sites pulled offline, almost all of the sites are places where users publish content to the site manually.(PUSH) A search engine pulling content from existing locations (PULL) is a completely different type of system.
In the future you'll be able to torrent your brain (Score:4, Funny)
Categorized results? (Score:5, Funny)
A search engine is a decent idea, but if you can't find your files already, you aren't doing something right. I'm not sure BitTorrent is the kind of thing that should be catering to the dumb computer user. Part of the reason it hasn't been locked down totally is because the masses haven't figured it out. Make it as easy to use as Napster, and it will be shutdown as fast as possible.
The parent is modded as funny, but makes a point (Score:2)
Poor little MPAA... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think anybody feels sorry for the MPAA. The fact that they had the balls to use "Sith" as an example was both moronic and ironic. I mean, Sith went on to have the 2nd most profitable opening EVER. [cnn.com] How do they have the balls to keep making these claims that bittorrent is hurting them?
hurting the image (even more) (Score:2, Insightful)
if this is a quick cash grab on brams part i hope he's considered how quickly legal fees can kill even the most profitable business...
Double edged sword? (Score:4, Interesting)
Or instead they could invest in good stories, believable plots, decent actors, cheaper popcorn, to attract people in cinemas.
Who am I kidding.
I just saw XXX-2 and my brain is still recuperating.
RIAA/MPAA (Score:4, Funny)
Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:5, Insightful)
As contradictory to the "Cause" as this may seem, doesn't anyone see that Bram is probably doing this because the RIAA/MPAA and other major industries are blaming his project, a project that produces a protocol, for the rampant copyright infringement on the Internet?
The irony here in recent news is that the RIAA/MPAA are directly blaming BitTorrent for the Star Wars EP3 leak, but its been repeatedly shown that the leaked copy came from inside, and was released before the movie hit the public.
...and somehow BitTorrent is to blame?
Are we blaming Boeing for the 9/11 tragedy too? Or blaming Kabar for making high-quality blades, because someone killed with one?
This is ridiculous, and I personally applaud Bram's efforts here to absolutely saturate the mainstream media and dark corners of the Internet with as much media as possible, using his legitimate tool. I personally don't care for any of the copyrighted dreck on television or the radio these days, but others might.
Also, whenever you can, please keep correcting people who regard this as "piracy", "stealing" or "theft". It is nothing of the sort. It is "copyright infringement", plain and simple. If I "steal" your bicycle, I have deprived you of something you previously owned, which I now posess. Making digitally-perfect copies of a work is not "stealing" or "theft", though it is very much illegal in most countries.
You can't steal profits that weren't already earned. You can't steal "projected" profits. Keep up the pressure on these companies who continue to misunderstand the terms they're spewing in public. There's a certain Heinekin commercial that is grossly misrepresenting the nature of copyright infringement.
I corrected a Wall Street Journal reporter for a front-page article in the Marketplace section of the dead-tree version for promoting the "sharing of music" by burning copies of music and handing it out.
He wrote a story that included how some woman (which he named), was bored with the looping music playing in her resort in the Caribbean islands and decided to use her laptop, complete with burner, to burn several CDs of her favorite music to give to the resort to play instead. He was promoting the "advance of technology" for "enabling" people to do these things. This is disgusting.
THIS is where we need to start directing our angst... at the mainstream media misrepresenting these technologies.
Re:Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:3, Insightful)
And even if, as the content industries would like us to do, we considered it "stealing projected profits" when someone discourages others from buying copies of a CD or movie (which is the only way illegal copying can affect profits at all), what would that do to the First Amendment?
When Roger Ebert or any other reviewer publishes a negative write-up of a movie, that must have more effect on ticket sales than any sing
Re:Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm... nope, you're gonna have to explain this alleged vast difference, chief.
If I give you a copy of The Incredible Hulk, you might say "god, this sucks" and decide not to buy a ticket or a DVD. OTOH, if *I* watch The Incredible Hulk, I might tell you "god, this sucks", and you might decide not to buy a ticket or DVD because you respect my opinion so much. In either case, the movie theater and the studio aren't getting your money.
The only difference is that in one case, you get to see the movie anyway, which harms no one at all (except yourself, if the movie really is that bad).
There is no slippery slope here. It's a question of getting something for nothing, or getting nothing for nothing. The latter is perfectly acceptable.
As is the former. You can walk past a club where a loud concert is going on, and hear the music for free. You can even stop for a few minutes to listen in. You can go to a friend's house and watch his DVDs for free. You can go to the library and read books for free. You can turn on the radio and hear music for free. You can turn on TiVo and watch TV shows for free, without even watching the commercials.
People seem to have gotten the idea that it's somehow illegitimate to enjoy any bit of content unless you've paid for the privilege. Not so.
Re:Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's unimportant, as there is a world of difference between listening to a muffled, quiet rendition of each song and actually being there in the crowd. For me at least, the atmosphere is half the point of going to a gig, and you don't get that outside.
You can go to a friend's house and watch his DVDs for free.
If you believe the legalese on the back of the DVD case, you may well be on shaky ground there. My copy of
Re:Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:2)
The initial file came from inside, but widespread distribution was only possible with such tools as BitTorrent.
Of course they are wrong, but they will grasp onto anything they can. The main thing they don't seem to get is the difference between BitTorrent and P2P things like Na
Re:Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:2)
Only if the unnamed carribean nation has implemented US-style copyright laws. I bet they have not, which would make what the lady did completely legal.
Re:Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:5, Insightful)
In the US, this is a pretty common occurance. Victims of gun crime are now suing gun manufacturers and there have been a few cases against hunting knife makers that have been settled out of court.
Re:Does anyone see the irony here? (Score:2)
Use of the word "piracy" in place of "copyright infringement" has been commonplace for decades, if not longer. See for example here [cambridge.org] and here [reference.com].
No, it isn't accurate. Yes, it was almost certainly started by content producers to try to provoke a negative emotional response in people. But just like the "hacker vs cracker" debate,
just a thought... (Score:3, Interesting)
if the source is released under an open source license it would make it nearly impossible for a "gold standard" bittorrent search engine to emerge...
getting the community to help with the development would spread out not only the work, but the blame if it ever comes down to litigation...
Bram changed his mind? (Score:2)
Well, this is going to have one good effect... (Score:4, Funny)
Napster conflict all over again? (Score:2)
Then again, Napster got sold for umpteen millions and is now a pay service... maybe what Bram is doing is good in the long run for him but not for bitTorrent as we know it.
It all makes sense! (Score:5, Insightful)
You have two choices when it comes to torrents. Either disown the sharing of copyrighted material "Piracy is Bad. We don't support piracy at all. Torrents can be used for GOOD!".
Or, you can try to legitimize "piracy" itself. Ie. Make the downloading of copyright material, so widespread, and so common, that the content providers have NO CHOICE but change their business models. Essentially force a revolution.
I'd guess, thats what Mr. Cohen is up to. The MPAA and RIAA aren't going to be convinced that Torrenting is "good" or "just a protocol". So rather than try in vain, he's gonna play by their rules, open the gates wide open, and legitimize piracy.
Remember, content providers are not gonna change by choice, they are not going to do the right thing because we ask nicely. The only way they will smarten up is if they are given no choice "change, or die".
So the plan isn't to deny piracy. It's to embrace it, make it so big it's unstoppable, to induce a paradigm shift in the industry. To bring on the revolution.
Heck, it might even work.
Aggies
Bitoogle (Score:3, Informative)
Perpetuating the myth (Score:3, Insightful)
By listing only the illegal things that appear on the P2P networks, you help perpetuate the notion that they are inherently bad, and become a willing stooge for the MPAA [slashdot.org] and its lackeys. It wasn't germane to your post, anymore than mentioning
In other words... (Score:2, Insightful)
advertising-supported piracy. Sounds sweet. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that P2P is in itself bad or anything. I'm not saying that P2P *is* piracy. What I'm saying, though, is that probably 90% of all users will be searching for pirated stuff (software, movies...). And if the searching is advertising-supported, it all becomes extremely rotten - that's what it seems to me.
In extreme scenarii, we could even envision people looking for a pirated Photoshop version while looking at an Adobe advertisement
Promote legal content: make more available (Score:4, Interesting)
If this helps create a situation where unlawful content drops into the noise in comparison with all of the lawful content, BT will be seen less and less as a tool for pirates, and it will be more obvious the value that (practically all of us here know) it provides.
I would say that if everyone just decided to start posting torrent links everywhere -- especially now that it can be done trackerless -- this is exactly what will happen.
So, my recommendation: post appropriate, well classified, well keyworded torrent links, and download only legal content, so that any of the usual poisoning attacks will fail.