Official BitTorrent Search Opens 309
starrsoft writes "The official BitTorrent search has debuted. The search engine was built by BT inventor Bram Cohen. The question? Will he get sued? The BT search seems to be down right now. (It'll really be down after this story is posted...) Spiegel has more (En): "Naturally other sites such as Bitoogle, Isohunt, SuprNova or Torrentspy have tried before, but either they became fast a goal of legal attacks on the part of the industry or they furnished rather durchwachsene [??] results. BitTorrent search however proves with first tests [that it is] as...Google...fast. The results come from a large number [of] more well-known and unknown... sites, and...permits sufficient restricting to the inquiry, in order to obtain really relevant results.""
Speedy (Score:5, Informative)
So fast that the browser times out on a search for "mozilla". Hopefully they'll get those kinks worked out soon.
Bandwidth generously provided by Hot or Not
That explains everything.
Will he get sued?
I still think that anyone trying to sue Bittorrent or a generic search engine would have a hard time of it. Bittorrent has so many legal uses that it just isn't funny. Here's some example of legal torrents:
Privateer Remake [filerush.com]
OpenOffice [openoffice.org]
Star Trek: New Voyages [blogsite.org] (legal fan made)
FreeBSD [freebsd.org]
Star Wars: Revelations [panicstruckpro.com] (legal fan made)
Xandros Free Edition [xandros.com]
Mozilla Firefox [mozilla.org]
Doom 3 Demo [filerush.com]
America's Army [slashdot.org] (now for Linux and OSX)
I could go on, but I think you get the point.
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
Re:Speedy (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Speedy (Score:3, Interesting)
BT is great if you're not behind a firewall or on a corporate network... for normal usage get used to downloading your 500MB file at 1k/second.
I have 20 machines behind this firewall.. there is no way in hell port forwarding is going to work, so WoW doesn't get updated for a couple of weeks while until the mirrors get up to speed.
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Speedy (Score:4, Insightful)
If I share a movie via FTP on my web server and Google's spiders find it and link to it, is it Google's fault that I've broken copyright law?
The protocol is irrelevent. (The constant game of cat and mouse, protocol-of-the-week antics confirms this.) Even the uses to which people *put* the protocol are irrelevent. What matters is that people are sharing materials to which they have no copyrights, not that they're using BitTorrent to do it.
BitTorrent doesn't share movies. People share movies.
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
Re:Speedy (Score:5, Informative)
The judge in the Napster case defined the litmus test that has been used by successive generations of P2P software. His decision is also what got Kazza off the hook.
As I understand the case, the judge said that a technology would be legal if it was demonstratably useful and intended for legal purposes. Napster failed that test, because there simply wasn't an existing base of legal music files at the time. Kazza succeeded because it was able to show that its design allowed for any type of file regardless of legality.
Similarly, this search engine should be legal as long as it stays within the bounds of a generic service. If it starts favoring particular sites, then the owners are going to be in trouble. Also note that the owners of the search engine will need to promptly remove any links requested by someone claiming a copyright, in order to sustain carrier status under the DMCA.
It will (presumably) tell users where to get information (.torrent files and their associated trackers) on where to get copyrighted content. Is this enough for a case?
Definitely not. Distributing copyrighted material is not illegal. Illegally distributing copyrighted material is illegal. I realize most people around here don't catch the distinction, so I'll attempt to explain.
You see, when the Mozilla Foundation produces a release of FireFox they have an automatic copyright on their work. That copyright gives them the sole control over its redistribution. In MF's case, they decide to freely allow for BitTorrent distribution and redistribution. That is their right as a copyright holder. However, when George Lucas produced Star Wars III he chose to only allow for distribution to theaters under a royalty agreement. Redistribution is not permitted (except for perhaps companies who create film copies on behalf of Lucas) and thus is illegal if found on a P2P network.
Re:Speedy (Score:2, Informative)
>test that has been used by successive generations
>of P2P software. His decision is also what got...
^^^
The judge in the Napster case was Marylin Hall Patel. I had lunch with her a couple of times in college when working on a mock trial. Smart lady.
Lady being the operative term here
Re:Speedy (Score:3, Insightful)
This might have been an issue, but the determining legal point was that Napster was a centralized system and therefore knew full well that copyright infri
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
No, illegal BitTorrent indexes are being shut down. I have yet to see an actual torrent crawler along the lines of Google. Such a crawler would be legal under the carrier status of the DMCA. As long as the search engine keeps up with requests to remove links to torrents of illegal material, they can stay in business. Any sort of FBI purge prior to attempting communications would l
Re:Speedy (Score:5, Interesting)
There are other problems.
Re:Speedy (Score:3, Informative)
So if Google has to filter out protected content per the DMCA, why wouldn't this search engine have to?
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
I'm guessing that because the [illegal item] you're talking about is a bunch of 1s and 0s, a direct comparison can't be made (at least in the minds of lawyers and the MPAA/RIAA). I agree with that statement 100%, but there are many examples of how complex it is to ac
"legally dubious" (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:"legally dubious" (Score:4, Insightful)
Essentially, what it comes down to is under US law, the creator gets more of a 'licence' to his work whereas in other countries his creative works are treated like real property. This is why the bastardized term "Intellectual Property" really pisses me off--there exists no intellectual property in the US. Creators have no moral right to their property. As much as some corporate interests would love complete control of their "Property," their protections are bestowed to them by the Constitution and the Constitution only.
What the **AA will do... (Score:2)
Bram's really handed them a gift: if I ran a torrent site, I would not want it listed!
The sites are that have been sued have been a lot easier to take down: usually they've solicited for torrents and seeders, which means that there is clearly demonstratable intent:
Re:Speedy (Score:3)
Bad analogy. An appropriate analogy would be:
"Could I be taken to court if Joe Bloggs asks me whether there are any good drugs in town, and I not only inform him of the variety of drugs available (search), but drive him to the scene and point out the dealer to him (direct link), and telling him what to tell the dealer so that the
Re:Speedy (Score:3, Insightful)
Can they afford the legal battle?
Until the answer to this question is yes, all others will remain unanswered. As it stands, the mere threat of legal action is enough to send anyone with less than deep pockets scurrying.
Re:Speedy (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus Google is mo better (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Plus Google is mo better (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
Re:Speedy (Score:4, Informative)
Have you been to their site? They have explicit permission to create these episodes. In general, Paramount has stated that they don't mind too much as long as no one is making money off of their trademarks. Same thing with the Star Wars film. George Lucas has given quite a bit of leeway to fans in creating works based on his universe.
I'm 99.5% certain of the legality of all the torrents I've linked to. Even in the (extremely slim) chance that one of them is contested by a trademark or copyright holder, that's for the otherwise upstanding distribution sites to sort out.
Re:Speedy (Score:3, Funny)
Well, that explains Enterprise.
Re:Speedy (Score:5, Insightful)
How so?
Well, if you kept your Metallica stuff (music, T-shirts, videos, I assume), then in the future you might decide that you just don't care for Metallica anymore. So you sell it. And the people who bought your used stuff might not buy new stuff from Metallica because they just bought your stuff.
But now that you've thrown it away (it's destroyed, presumably), this cannot happen, and now somebody will have to buy new Metallica shit, lining Lars' pockets with even more gold.
Good job!
Re:Speedy (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't underestimate symbolism. Aside from expressing how he feels to himself, he expresses to many others how he feels. A band depends on other people for its worth. Actions like this diminish it, even if it doesn't cost them a few quid immediately.
Re:Speedy (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Speedy (Score:2)
Take another look at the torrents I posted. Most of them are from the official websites. Legal content distributers like BitTorrent because it offloads the cost of data transfer to the users, potentially saving the distributer thousands of dollars in bandwidth costs.
In other words, BitTorrent is a really advanced download system, not a P2P pirating network as many people seem to think. The catch is that it happens to be use
help mee (Score:5, Funny)
Re:help mee (Score:5, Funny)
My boss just walked by. He said that he has the same problem with some of his employees. [oops!]
Re:help mee (Score:2, Funny)
use gnutella? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why should we? (Score:4, Insightful)
2) It's difficult - until recently, trackerless torrents have been a dream, so downloading a torrent from a random user might end up creating a bunch of seedless torrents.
3) Most people who use other P2P apps tend to not understand BitTorrent. They stick with what's easy.
Re:use gnutella? (Score:2)
Re:use gnutella? (Score:2)
Re:use gnutella? (Score:2)
Bittorrent givith bandwidth (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bittorrent givith bandwidth (Score:2)
Re:Bittorrent givith bandwidth (Score:2)
Re:Bittorrent givith bandwidth (Score:2)
"The BT search seems to be down right now." (Score:4, Funny)
I think he'll get sued but... (Score:5, Insightful)
When Napster was sued they actually had content in their possession. Not the case here. Even if they were able to prove that you could get content from the network, you aren't technically scearching for the content you get. You're scearching for torrents, which are small files with no real copy righted data in them. They're little road signs that point you where to go. It would be like getting arrested for creating a phone book just because you might be able to find the number of someone who has drugs in the book.
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:2, Interesting)
i wish laws and our courts were more intelligent, but i don't think we can expect the correct judgement from our judiciary system.
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:3, Informative)
Someone further up in the thread put it perfectly. I believe the metaphor went like this -
If you asked me for some illegal drugs and I said, "Sure, here you go," I'd most definitely be going to court over that. However if you asked me for some illegal drugs and I said "Joe Bloggs on the other side of town might be able to put you in touch with someone who has the
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:2)
It doesn't matter. If it was found that the only purpose of the search engine was to assist in illegal activities, it would be just as illegal as if it carried the content itself.
That being said, my understanding is that this is supposed to be a generic search engine. As long as the owner keeps his nose clean, a judge is likely to find in his favor due to an "overwhelming degree of legal uses".
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:2)
*IAA Guy 1: Hey, a BitTorrent search site! Let's sue them!
*IAA Guy 2: Yeah! Enter in a search and see what kind of illegal stuff comes up!
*IAA Guy 1:
*IAA guys die of old age.
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't ask the phone book for class A drugs and get a valid number you can ask a torrent search site for a particular copyrighted film and get the right torrent.
Therefore the phone book is not helping you engage in an illegal activity but the torrent site might be.
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:4, Insightful)
More pertinent to your premise a local chain competing with Radio Shack operated for 10 years or so selling drugs over the counter at retail.
There are these things called "code words", which, as it happens, were included in their Yellow Pages ad. People were, indeed, able to look them up in the phone book and determine that they purported to be a source for illegal drugs.
Massage parlors, the already mentioned escort services and a small host of other businesses that are known to, occasionally, offer illegal goods and services, use the phone book in a like manner and if you know the local lingo you can often determine which ones actually offer such services from their phone book ads. Once one goes deep into the dark side certain unusal names attached to home phone numbers function as code words. Hermine Xenophone, just to make up a possible example on the spot.
There are all sorts of goods that are legal in one context but illegal in another, kinda like some content files (it's perfectly legal to download it for free from this site, but not from that one), and these businesses operate right out in the open in the phone book using "code words" like "Guns," or "Supermarket."
More relevant to the current discussion, the phone numbers you can look up to acquire tools and goods to commit copyright infringement are legion. Your local library, prominantly listed, will not only supply you with the copyrighted goods, but the machinery with which to infringe at only ten cents a page. They don't even monitor whether you are using their services for illegal useses or not (and there is "abandonware" in the book trade. You can buy a legitmate used copy for $200, or copy it for $10)
Nobody's busting them, or the phone company, even after illegal activity has been proven.
KFG
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:3, Insightful)
I assume that by `content' you mean `infringing content'? And by `their possession' you mean on their servers?
If so, what content are you talking about? There were no mp3s hosted on Napster's servers.
This argument would work on mp3.com's `my.mp3.com' thing where you could prove that you own a CD and then it would let you play `it' from anywhere, but I don't see how it applies to Napster.
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:2)
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:2)
Re:I think he'll get sued but... (Score:2)
Durchwachsen (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Durchwachsen (Score:2)
Re:Durchwachsen (Score:2)
Re:Durchwachsen (Score:3, Informative)
In the article, it may be translated to "mixed".
However, "eher durchwachsen" is just a very polite way to say "almost, but not always, completly crap".
The strength of bit torrent (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't get me wrong - I'm sure it will be incredibly useful. I'm also sure, that it will be filled with porn, illegal software, and illegal copies of music (whether you agree with the law or not, it's still illegal). That hurts bit torrent's reputation as content neutral, and will make some larger backers step away.
Apparently, though, the makers find it more useful to be widely used than widely respected. Fair enough, it's their toy. Unfortunate, though, that it can't be used as a shining, piracy free star in an otherwise ugly niche of the internet.
Re:The strength of bit torrent (Score:2)
Ummm, I think the boat was missed on that one some time ago dude. Don't know where you've been, but bittorrent is the pirates tool of choice for fast distribution of new "warez".
Re:The strength of bit torrent (Score:2)
Maybe that's because the software functions better with more users? Bittorrent would be pointless if it was limited to small circles posting approved material.
Re:The strength of bit torrent (Score:3, Insightful)
The real question (Score:5, Insightful)
Will this search engine help other websites get shut down?
I don't think the RIAA can sue the search engine, but it could sue sites that list torrents.
How will this search engine deal with private torrent websites?? Will it cache them? Can that be used as evidence at a later time?
A lawsuit may clear the air... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:A lawsuit may clear the air... (Score:2)
SCOTUS has not produced a formal decision yet. The outcome of that case will go a long way towards destroying or legitimizing these types of services.
cross your fingers...
Read the ToS (Score:5, Informative)
2. Online Conduct
You agree that you will not use the Site or the Services:
* to develop, generate, upload, post, display, transmit, disseminate or store information that: (A) infringes any third party's intellectual property or other proprietary rights, including, but not limited to, using third party copyrighted materials, without appropriate permission, using third party trademarks without appropriate permission or attribution, or using or distributing third party information (whether or not protected as a trade secret) in violation of a duty of confidentiality or otherwise; (B) is or, in BitTorrent's sole discretion, would have the tendency to be, defamatory, libelous, harassing, pornographic, an invasion of privacy, obscene, abusive, illegal, racist, offensive or harmful or otherwise objectionable; (C) constitutes unsolicited promotions, advertising or solicitations for funds, good or services, including junk mail and spam; (D) otherwise violates this Terms of Service in any way; or (E) obstructs or otherwise interferes with the normal performance of another person's use of the Sites or the Services;
Seems they are covering a few legal holes.. but will it stand against RIAA/MPAA's pack of lawyers?
Re:Read the ToS (Score:2)
No. It will not stand up to the RIAA/MPAA pack of lawyers. They have deep pockets. Who is funding this search engine website?
Secondly, The RIAA has their lobbyists. If current laws are insufficent to shut down the website, the lobbyists will get a new set of law passed. Did you know most of the laws that congress passes were written by lobbyists??
The question the OP asks is comprable to "Can Noriega de
Nothing new (Score:2)
Don't expect this to be any kind of legal shield though, because it isn't.
Question (Score:2, Interesting)
Just use google? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.google.com/search?q=filetype%3Atorrent
Re:Just use google? (Score:2)
BitTorrent.com is also using filetype:torrent! (Score:5, Interesting)
from http://bittorrent.com
(emphasis mine)
function sendheader(searchtype) {
var searchstr = document.search.searchtxt.value;
if (document.search.rdfile.checked == true) {
--------> searchstr = searchstr+" filetype:torrent"; <--------
document.search.action = "http://ms128.mysearch.com/jsp/GGmain.jsp?searchf
document.search.submit();
}
So, BitTorrent search is using MySearch.com to perform 'filetype:torrent' searches. This also explains the presence of the MySearch news links.
Re:BitTorrent.com is also using filetype:torrent! (Score:4, Informative)
Evidence of editing on slashdot. (Score:2)
Well, sure, the editing was done by starrsoft, who submitted the article, but I just about had a heart attack when I saw a slashdot article that had been edited to make it more comprehensible.
Now Maybe Finally (Score:2)
Firefox Seach Plugin (Score:5, Informative)
We have a new expression: zero-day features!
Results so far (Score:2)
First search: "The Power of Nightmares".
Results: Timed Out
Second search: "Eyes on the Prize"
Results: Timed out
Third search: Don Quixote
Results: Timed out
Yup - working perfectly so far! M|R|F/IAA doesn't have anything to worry about!
Online Translators (Score:4, Funny)
Does anyone else find that phrase to nicely sum up the state of online translators? It's amazing that they can do as much as they do, but the results are sometimes a little, well, durchwachsene.
RE: Online Translators (Score:5, Funny)
The question is (Score:2)
I'm guessing no, searches are already broken.
Day #1, and slashdot is already attacking you.
At least there's a lot of publicity in that.
Interesting that he picked today (Score:2)
Inital breaking story where the webpage appeared to be hacked: http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=801 [slyck.com]
FBI Release: http://www.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel05/bittorre nt052505.htm [fbi.gov]
ICE release: http://www.ice.gov/graphics/news/newsreleases/arti cles/starwars052505.htm [ice.gov]
MPAA Release: http://mpaa.org/MPAAPress/2005/2005_05_25b.doc [mpaa.org]
Re:Interesting that he picked today (Score:2)
Even the assistant director of the FBI doesn't know the difference between theft and copyright infringement.
Owner of torrent website was just arrested (Score:4, Informative)
What makes this so amazing is, this was not shut down because the RIAA sued, or because they made threats. The FBI raided the house, arrested the owner, and shut the website down. I wonder what the FBI will do with the server logs??
This has to be the dumbest waste of taxpayer money ever. Lets go after places that share music and tv shows.
Re:Owner of torrent website was just arrested (Score:2)
That should make it at least a little harder to let the FBI shut you down!
IsoHunt and TorrentSpy didn't have any problems? (Score:2)
I'm not sure exactly what this is supposed to say, but both IsoHunt and TorrentSpy deliver excellent results and definitely fulfilling their purpose, and they're fully functional today.
Re:IsoHunt and TorrentSpy didn't have any problems (Score:2)
www.elitetorrents.org shut down by the feds (Score:2, Informative)
From the article: U.S. law enforcers said on Wednesday that they have shut down a computer network that distributed illegal copies of "Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith" before it appeared in movie theaters.
Federal agents executed 10 search warrants and seized the main server computer in a network that allowed people to download nearly 18,000 mov
The law is strong with this one (Score:2)
Someone will [bittorrent.com].
Seems to me this makes it much easier to go after those who link to torrents, though I suppose the jury is still out on the legality of linking to copyrighted material.
Lets have a poll (Score:2)
1 Day
1 Week
2 Weeks
1 Month
It's a ploy by the MPAA!
Another good torrent search site... (Score:2)
TorrentTyphoon [torrenttyphoon.com] or ibonsai [ibonsai.org]
to search torrents, they are quite good.
No seeds / peers stats (Score:2, Informative)
This also leads to the question h
Any sites for legal video? (Score:3)
Re:what about GOOG (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Distributed webhosting (Score:2)
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Interesting)
"ICE and the FBI have shut down a group of online criminals who were using legitimate technology to create one-stop shopping for the illegal sharing of movies, games, software and music."
Re:In other news... (Score:2)
Re:On the keeping one step ahead of 'The Man' (Score:2)