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Linux For Losers According To De Raadt

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the fair-and-balanced dept.

1314

elohim writes "Theo has some scathing comments about Linux in his new interview with Forbes Magazine. From the article: 'It's terrible...Everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, "This is garbage and we should fix it."'"

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"Scathing" != "Untrue" (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840860)


"Linux For Losers According To De Raadt"

Nowhere in that article does he say "Linux is for losers" or use that label. The headline of the story rhetorically asks that question, way to generate flamebait, Forbes & Slashdot editors!

Now I'm going to get a coffee and enjoy the comments which will probably not differ much from "Theo is teh ghey! L12nux r00lzzzzzz!!!"

Re:"Scathing" != "Untrue" (0, Redundant)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840882)

Great first post.

Re:"Scathing" != "Untrue" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840887)

hint: look at the title of the article ;)
then look at the tone setout inside the article.

Re:"Scathing" != "Untrue" (5, Funny)

Fr4ncis (763671) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840910)

Theo is teh ghey! L12nux r00lzzzzzz!!!

Re:"Scathing" != "Untrue" (-1, Redundant)

l3v1 (787564) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840991)

Theo is teh ghey! L12nux r00lzzzzzz!!!

ROTFLMAO :D :D :D And this was modded Interesting :D :D :D

Flamebait (1)

Morosoph (693565) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840925)

My reckoning that it will generate a preponderance of flames, rather than flamebait.

Re:Flamebait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840947)

I meant they generated flamebait which will attract the flames. I see the confusion. Blame the .ca school system, eh?

I've just got one thing to say (0, Redundant)

narooze (845310) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840930)

Theo is teh ghey! L12nux r00lzzzzzz!!! :P

THEO IS TEH TOOL;; L1nux r00lz -- oh wai (1)

doc_traig (453913) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840934)


Oops... jumped the gun again. Damn those editors are good at getting me all hot and bothered...

Re:"Scathing" != "Untrue" (4, Informative)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840959)

Yes, and no. He doesn't say "Linux is for losers" but I would say "scathing" is a pretty fair description of "It's terrible...Everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, 'This is garbage and we should fix it.'"

Anyway, interesting in regard to yesterday's debate on "Whimsical Comments In Code: Vital Human Right Or Proof Of Idiocy?" is:

Lok Technologies, a San Jose, Calif.-based maker of networking gear, started out using Linux in its equipment but switched to OpenBSD four years ago after company founder Simon Lok, who holds a doctorate in computer science, took a close look at the Linux source code.

"You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, 'Does this belong here?' "Lok says. "What kind of confidence does that inspire? Right then I knew it was time to switch."

Re:"Scathing" != "Untrue" (2, Interesting)

SatanicPuppy (611928) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840987)

"It's terrible," De Raadt says. "Everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, 'This is garbage and we should fix it.'"

Seems pretty scathing to me.

Of course, anyone who is that dedicated to OpenBSD is bound to have some issues. It must be hard to be devoted to the unloved stepchild of the Open source movement, and have to watch as everyone worships Linux.

I found it amusing how they touted the BSD foundations of OpenBSD as being superiour to Linux's from scratch origins, and whined, in almost the same breath, about the lawsuit that nearly shut them down. Need to make the connection there boys; where would linux be if SCO had managed to come up with solid evidence?

He does NOT say it is for losers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840861)

The article's author titled it "Is Linux for Losers?" There's a HUGE difference.

Grapes... (1)

MECC (8478) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840865)


Sour grapes? Maybe.

No..!

Re:Grapes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12841008)

NOOOOOOOO!

Sorry, just trying to help

Garbage? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840872)

What's garbage is that I got this FP in. LOLZ!

Clearly... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840874)

It's Bush's fault!

Of course it is! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840913)

He uses an iPod.

reasons? (1, Funny)

SolusSD (680489) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840875)

he obviously isn't a unix user. Just because it doesn't copy windows doesn't mean its "crap".

Re:reasons? (1)

cbv (221379) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840901)

he obviously isn't a unix user.

Uhm, you DO of course know that he's the overlord err head of OpenBSD, right?

Re:reasons? (1)

SolusSD (680489) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840938)

well i did get modded funny. ;)

Re:reasons? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840931)

Eh? The founder of OpenBSD isn't a unix user?

Re:reasons? (0)

nitio (825314) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840949)

Obviously...

From TFA:
De Raadt makes a rival open source operating system called OpenBSD. Unlike Linux, which is a clone of Unix, OpenBSD is based on an actual Unix variant called Berkeley Software Distribution.

Re:reasons? (2, Funny)

SolusSD (680489) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840997)

please.. it is really way too early for anyone to be taking my post seriously. I read tfa. I still stand by the well known fact that De Raadt has never used unix in his life.

At last!!! (5, Funny)

DaHat (247651) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840877)

You mean for once I am not a loser? I never thought I'd see the day when running Windows was... cool.

Re:At last!!! (3, Funny)

bodester17 (892112) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840948)

I was always imbarrased for using windows. I would hide in the corner at coffee shops with my toshiba laptop hiding from the disapointing eyes of those harolded mac users. But now I am free. Loosers use linux, not windows. Hurray!!

Re:At last!!! (1)

karnal (22275) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840986)

Imbarrased... nevermind the spelling, would that mean that you are internally embarrassed?

Re:At last!!! (5, Funny)

SoupIsGood Food (1179) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840989)

You assume that being a loser is a monopoly, an understandable assumption, as you run windows. No, I do hate to break this to you, but many people can all be losers at once, and compete with each other for uncoolness and anti-cred. OpenBSD users see Linux users as losers, but thet also see you as a loser. No coolness for you today, try tomorrow.

SoupIsGood Food

Here we go... (1)

DrinkingIllini (842502) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840880)

3...2...1...Flame On!

Theo in Forbes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840885)

More interesting than the fact that Theo is ragging on Linux is that Forbes interviewed him. Maybe they're looking for an anti-Linux view from another open source leader so they can generate some buzz and sell some more ads.

Dan Lyons (5, Interesting)

Perl-Pusher (555592) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840951)

Dan Lyons has made a career out of trashing linux in Forbes.

Dan's Resume [google.com]

Re:Theo in Forbes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12841045)

Maybe also Theo is trying to get some of that funding back that DARPA pulled.

What I don't like about BSD (-1, Troll)

caluml (551744) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840886)

That's funny. I don't use BSD because there are things I do't like about it.

1. /usr/local. Everything that you add afterwards goes in there. It's just extra to type. And is apache config in /usr/local/apache/conf or /usr/local/etc/apache/conf ?
2. The interface names change with the drivers of the card. em0? or fxp0. Who knows. What a silly idea.

Re:What I don't like about BSD (1)

Roofus (15591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841014)

This is a joke, right?

First off, just put /usr/local/bin in your $PATH variable. You do know what that is, don't you?

As for Apache, it installs (if compiling from source) into the same directory on ANY *NIX OS. /usr/local/apache[2]/. That's not BSD specific.

As for the interface names, Linux is in the minority by naming every ethernet card eth0, eth1, etc. Most use names that vary with the card type/make.

Re:What I don't like about BSD (3, Insightful)

mrm677 (456727) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841015)

1. /usr/local. Everything that you add afterwards goes in there. It's just extra to type. And is apache config in /usr/local/apache/conf or /usr/local/etc/apache/conf ?

Maybe a more experience sys admin can chime in here, but /usr/local is exactly where additional software, not included in the base OS, should be installed. More typing?? For what? /usr/local should be in your path and manually going to this directory should be rare.

There are many reasons why one might _not_ want to use BSD, but this is the silliest yet!

Re:What I don't like about BSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12841026)

you are kidding about #1, right? Every once in a while, I have to sit down at a random linux box (tm), and change the settings of a given daemon. It's always a fun guessing game to see if it is at /etc /usr/local/etc /opt/etc /usr/etc... and so on. If I install any userland software from the ports tree on freebsd, I always know the /etc class file will be in /usr/local/etc . Any personal customizations (like if it's an irc client that takes a config file) is at /usr/local/examples/. How exactly is this difficult?

Re:What I don't like about BSD (5, Insightful)

grimwell (141031) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841027)

Ah, grasshopper... take a bath. Data hygiene is a good thing.

Funny, the default mixing of apps and OS in linux distros is what I dis-like the most about linux.

Keeping added apps seperate from the OS highlights the beauty of *nix over windows. With everything you installed after the OS in /usr/local, you can re-install the OS(e.g. partition corruption, junior admin fubar'ing, etc) without having to re-install your apps.

Trust me, I've been there. Windows admin hoses OS, I re-install OS and I'm done. The needed apps are already in place & configured. /usr/local , /opt is a good thing.

Theo de Raadt? (1)

scosol (127202) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840888)

Lacking tact?

*shock*

Classy Response to Theo by Linus Torvalds (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840890)

From the article:

Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is "difficult" and declined to comment further.

I must say, Linus really comes across as a classy, quality person. It takes mature restraint to deal with "difficult" people like Theo, and Linus does so with class.

Re:Classy Response to Theo by Linus Torvalds (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840973)

What!?!?!

The dude says someone is "difficult" and then goes off in a sulk, refusing to comment further, and you consider that to be mature?!?!

You consider that to be classy and quality, you deserve Linux my friend. You do not deserve the snappy, hard as nails, not pretending to be cool BSD.

Now go back to your keyboard, and pretend to your friends that you've kissed a girl before.

Re:Classy Response to Theo by Linus Torvalds (5, Insightful)

JohnFluxx (413620) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840985)

Actually the worst part is that Theo is often right, which means you do have to actually listen to him rather than the easier just ignore him.

Re: Classy Response to Theo by Linus Torvalds (4, Funny)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841003)


> > Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is "difficult" and declined to comment further.

> I must say, Linus really comes across as a classy, quality person. It takes mature restraint to deal with "difficult" people like Theo, and Linus does so with class.

He knows he can count on us to fill in the details.

Score... (3, Funny)

Paiway (842782) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840894)

-5 Flamebait

Re:Score... (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841000)

My thoughts exactly. I thought the idea was to _not_ have trolls on /., but apparently its okay to be a troll as long as you post it as a story.

So, who should have gotten modded down, elohim or Zonk?

-2, Flamebait, Troll (-1, Redundant)

JayJay.br (206867) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840897)

Nuff said.

stupid lameness filter makes me type a whole lot of bullshit just to get this comment posted

Here you go some more

And more.

Hoo Boy (2, Insightful)

TripMaster Monkey (862126) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840900)


Talk about throwing gasoline on the fire...why would DeRaat say such hateful things?

From TFA:


De Raadt makes a rival open source operating system called OpenBSD.

Ahh.

Here's another quote from TFA:

"Linux people do what they do because they hate Microsoft. We do what we do because we love Unix," De Raadt says.

Apparently, you also do what you do because you hate Linux...

Don't be hatin'...

Friday flamefest? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840902)

And... cue the linux zealots! I'm going to crack open a can of beer and enjoy the silly freak show.

I bet that in the end this article will feature 1000+ indignant, shocked and appalled posts. "How can he say something like that? Lunix is the greatest thing evar!!1!1one!onehundredandeleven!1"

Shocking News! (4, Funny)

GypC (7592) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840909)

Theo De Raadt Abrasive and Opinionated! Film at 11

greenlit troll? (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840912)

I thought trolls were supposed to be modded down here? Isn't the best thing to do with an idiot like this to just...ignore him? Why is /. giving him attention?

Favorite quote... (1)

peter_gzowski (465076) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840914)

Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is "difficult" and declined to comment further.

Theo has never run Linux (5, Insightful)

pebs (654334) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840915)

The funny thing is he has never run Linux. Quoting this interview [newsforge.com] :

Theo de Raadt: I don't know. I have never run Linux.

Dear, (1)

pangloss (25315) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840918)

Linux is for Lovers!

Re:Dear, (1)

Dutch_Cap (532453) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841010)

Make Linux, not war.

Re:Dear, (1)

saintp (595331) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841020)

I totally want a shirt [thevirginiacompany.com] that says that.

Re:Dear, (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841042)

Sorry, I think Virginia [virginia.org] already took that one. ;-)

I noticed (0, Flamebait)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840920)

With the CD writing thing. I realise that has worked out well for most people, but for me and anyone else with a Cyberdrive CW058D it hasn't. It's a real pain. I also noticed with the whole reiser4 issue. Linux was always a kludge to get things running for a bit until hurd came out. Now that's starting to bite, as kludge is piled on kludge to get things running. Linus being dictatorial really doesn't help, because the rare times when he's boneheaded are far more harmful than the many times he's being sensible are helpful. If it's the right thing, almost everyone can see it's the right thing.

Re:I noticed (1)

mattdm (1931) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840995)

With the CD writing thing.

You mean the thing where someone could send a software command that would totally wipe out some hardware? Man, sure sucks that that got fixed.

Linux was always a kludge to get things running for a bit until hurd came out.

I think you've confused "always" and "never". May want to check a dictionary.

Linus being dictatorial really doesn't help, because the rare times when he's boneheaded are far more harmful than the many times he's being sensible are helpful.

That's some weird math you've got there.

If I was Theo de Raadt (5, Interesting)

Raindance (680694) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840922)

I'd be angry too. About how the Forbes article portrayed me as a raving lunatic out for blood, after giving what was probably a thoughtful interview.

All the article consisted of was trotting Theo out for choice quotes about how Linux sucks, and a tiny bit of BSD history. Only 2 out of the 16 paragraphs even started to cover *why* Theo thinks the way he does. The rest is tabloid-style trash-talk and what seems to be an ADD-inspired history lesson. There's nothing approaching a coherent argument.

I'm giving Theo the benefit of the doubt on this one- he probably gave a fleshed-out argument then Forbes eviscerated it. Even if that's not the case, they should have written a better article. This is awfully shitty journalism.

Re:If I was Theo de Raadt (1)

shades66 (571498) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840975)

>This is awfully shitty journalism.

Well what do you expect from forbes these days.

Re:If I was Theo de Raadt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12841025)

Yeah, except Theo is a very intelligent very technical guy. I expect he gave a well thought out list of problems, and the forbes guys eyes got really glassy, and he heard "Whomp whomp whomp." kinda like in peanuts.

Story = (1)

Locarius (798304) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840923)

Why would anyone post this to Slashdot? Perhaps the pageview revenue was too good to pass up.

Linux is a winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840924)

Linux is a winner inspite of a few glitches. By the way Windows is full of bugs but has managed to get paid for the trash. Linux is better, cheaper and sturdier.
Every winner has some weaknesses so we should work towards clearing up th mess rather than complaining.

Re:Linux is a winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12841011)

Lay off the crack mate, 100% hardware compatibility (for me) and never crashes. Never got a virus or spyware. And thats using the windows firewall, MS antispyware & AVG free. Where do you Zelots come up with this crap.

Both Operating systems are good (some more user friendly than others).

And how would he know? (5, Insightful)

jdaluz (512425) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840928)

In a NewsForge interview a couple of days ago de Raadt was asked about technical comparisons between Linux and BSD and replied, "I don't know. I have never run Linux."

http://os.newsforge.com/os/05/06/09/2132233.shtml? tid=152&tid=8&tid=2 [newsforge.com]

Suddenly, he's an expert on how bad Linux is?

The only losers here... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840929)

...are the Slashdot editors.

/usr/src/usr.bin/mg/theo.c is the key (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840936)

This is where you will find theo's words of encouragement and something related to Linux.

On OpenBSD, of course! Don't look for it in Linux.

Remember What our Mommies told us... (1)

sglider (648795) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840937)

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all...

With that said: Would you like cheese with your whine, Theo?

Linux Losers??? (0, Troll)

http101 (522275) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840941)

From the article: 'It's terrible...Everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, "This is garbage and we should fix it."

And this is where he's completely wrong. Yes, Linux users add to the interface, yes, they add new utilities, but NO, it's NOT garbage! Linux is an excellent alternative to Crapple and Microshit, has a plethora of tools for productivity, analysis, and features stability that most other OSs can't offer. However, at the same time, I'm concerned about all the different flavors of Linux. This is something Microsoft got right. They limited their distros to 5 flavors of XP; Lite, Home, Pro, Corporate, DataCenter, and are making a killing in the market.

With Linux, there are what... a hundred or so? I have no idea what the others do, how they work, they vary in appearance and capabilites and offer so many "in-depth" tools that the common user won't know what the hell they're looking at! So, in one way, he's right, but I can't totally agree with his philosophy of Linux users being losers. He needs to pull his head from his ass and look at the world from our perspective. Journalists...

Re:Linux Losers??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12841018)

"Linux is an excellent alternative to Crapple and Microshit"

You, Sir, are an utter idiot. Stop posting.

Re:Linux Losers??? (1)

falcon5768 (629591) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841029)

Crapple? Give me a break here, you listed all the things good about Linux and word for word that SAME stuff can be said about Apple, except.

a) It works OUT OF BOX

b) its not free (but it IS cheap)

I mean seriously you Linux people are making us Mac guys look good in the fact you will plainly look over the fact it takes a lot of damn work to make it run right and 99% of computer users out there want the computer to just run.

Theo (3, Interesting)

evenprime (324363) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840942)

Theo is openbsd's greatest strength (a fanatical security coder) and their worst handicap (a PR nightmare)

I am a troll... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840943)

because anyone who has ever run high throughput traffic through openbsd knows just how quick it'll kernel panic stock.

Where to start, where to start? (1)

otter42 (190544) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840950)

Oh, hell, there's nowhere to start. A start implies a finish, and I'm just not motivated enough to deal with all the hyperbole, straw-man arguments, logical fallicies, etc.

De Raadt == whiny bitch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840955)

His work isn't being used by the masses. His ego is bruised. End of story.

Nitpicking (2, Interesting)

allenw (33234) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840956)

I think the coverage for the BSDs is great. Really. I think it will help them in the corporate mindset. But, Dan Lyons, the person who has the byline, really should have had someone technical proofread his article. Only three open source BSDs? When did Solaris switch back to using a BSD kernel? That last one is particularly embarrassing given the amount of coverage Sun is getting with the whole opensolaris thing.

thank goodness someone has the b@llz to say it! (1)

packetboy (450781) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840958)

after linus's interview last week in which he states, "the linux kernel is good enough", i about sh1t my pants... i had never felt more shame for having once used linux.
THANK GOODNESS FOR THE BSD's!

BSD may be great for admins, but OpenBSD isn't (2, Informative)

chunderfest (755217) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840960)

I ran an OpenBSD system at work for years. There's one single reason that I ran screaming to Debian at the first opportunity: lack of binary security patches. OpenBSD happily distributes their releases on CD-ROM, but the instant there's a patch needed for some obscure library you've never heard of, you have to rebuild your entire libc subsystem from scratch. With (as of several years back at least) almost no documentation.

Doing this on the older Sun hardware they claim to support is incredibly painful. Until Theo changes this one way or the other (preferably towards providing security patches in the same form as releases) I have to consider them a developer-only product, not a use-in-the-real-world one.

Oh yeah, and there's the wipe-and-reinstall mentality for each release too.

Talking out of his butt (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840964)

He openly moans about Linux, but admits that he's never used it.

BSDs=good stuff, De Raadt=nuts, it's the license (0, Redundant)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840965)

I use linux, but I have the upmost respect for the BSDs.

I think the difference in popularity mainly comes down to the license. As I understand it: stuff you contribute to BSDs can be pirated by msft, and others, and put into their binary code. Whereas, the GPL offers a little more protection.

Pot/Kettle (2)

TomorrowPlusX (571956) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840968)

Sure, I'm not a linux or BSD guy. I run OS X, I'm out of all these loops. But get this quote:

Torvalds, via e-mail, says De Raadt is "difficult" and declined to comment further.

I've tried never to say this on slashdot, but: LOL.

Isn't this what we want afterall? (1)

KrisCowboy (776288) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840969)

Linux has never been about quality. There are so many parts of the system that are just these cheap little hacks, and it happens to run."
As high as 85% of Linux users I know don't really care about the code. Linux works the way I expect it to work for me; let other's do the coding. As long as Linux works for me, I don't really care about it's quality. I tried switching to FreeBSD once but the damn thing refused to recognize my ext3 partitions. So, still glued to linux.

try it first (1)

Lord Ender (156273) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840972)

You really need to try OpenBSD before you dismiss this guy. Compared to Linux, OpenBSD is MUCH better designed. By this, I mean to say the whole system seems to be more coherently engineered, while every Linux distro I've used (and I've used all the big ones) seems to be much more thrown together than engineered. Linux is "good enough" to get the job done, and has more features and hardware support than OpenBSD, but it is not well architected at all.

Does this belong here? (1, Troll)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840977)

"Simon Lok, who holds a doctorate in computer science, took a close look at the Linux source code.

"You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, 'Does this belong here?' "Lok says. "What kind of confidence does that inspire? Right then I knew it was time to switch."
"

So he has a PHD in CS and he decided to change based on a comment? Not the actual code mind you but the comment?
I guess the idea that comments are for the developer and not for some teacher is lost on him. I often make comments like "There must be a better way to do this" in my code. They are markers for me to go back and see if I can clean it up or make it faster.

Frankly I am a little scared of using OpenBSD now... Sure it seems secure but can you trust developers that are sure there code is perfect and that everyone else produces crap?

Linux for losers !? as if (1)

scenestar (828656) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840978)

BSD users get laid so much more often.

All the way to the bank... (4, Interesting)

qweqazfoo (765286) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840979)

Too bad Forbes wouldn't know who Theo was if it wasn't for Linux.

Remember folks, UNIX was fragmented and dying before Linux became mainstream. BSD and GNU were nothing but obscure academic projects. The popularity of Linux brought UNIX to a whole new generation of users, and BSD has benefited from the uprising as much as anyone. Even the big boys, like Solaris and AIX, are trying to be more like Linux.

And the whole quality thing is a myth. Linus approaches the kernel with the approach of an engineer, and the rest of Linux mirrors this approach. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to work. Theo thinks of himself as an artist, and his arrogance does as much to hurt BSD as it does to help it.

Sigh...... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#12840983)

Theo has been (uncharacteristically) cautious with what he says in interviews lately, and particularly so when asked questions about other OS's such as Linux, so as to avoid headlines for trashing other peoples favorite OS (it's like insulting someone's religion). I hink he knew he'd said too much, and that Forbes would highlight anything he said that might cause controversy ... I doubt he will ever comment on another OS after this ... lesson learned.

He sounds resentful (1)

James_Aguilar (890772) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840984)

I admit that I've often had similar complaints to his about Linux, but also, his bitterness kind of seems to have a source. From the article:

De Raadt says BSD could have become the world's most popular open source operating system, except that a lawsuit over BSD scared away developers, who went off to work on Linux and stayed there even after BSD was deemed legal. "It's really very sad," he says. "It is taking a long time for the Linux code base to get where BSD was ten years ago."

He sounds like he just wishes that BSD was as popular as Linux, and because it isn't, he's a little pissed off.

PS: Yes, this article was in its entirety flamebait. De Raadt makes no comment on the kinds of users Linux has, only (accurate) comments about the kind of coding it's built by.

Microsoft? (1)

Luscious868 (679143) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840992)

Everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is.

Are we talking about Linux, or Microsoft? :-)

its all the same (1)

kkgna42 (888982) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840994)

when it all comes down to it, its all still *nix. Doing stuff on the differnt systems is almost always the same, cause I don't have to do anything very advanced... Its all the same

Linux is for People Who Want More Options ... (1)

killdashnine (651759) | more than 9 years ago | (#12840996)

Honestly, I'm confused ... I use Linux frequently and I'd have to say that the only thing I really am tired of is seeing ten million different distros.

I don't hate Microsoft, per se, mostly because when I want to play games or use standard Office-type stuff it's convenient. My company, however, has adopted Linux to develop its software on and it proves to be a constant headache because the "guts" of Linux change frequently and things break (even with Red Hat Enterprise).

I'd really like to see a de-Balkanization of the Linux universe to a large degree. I'm really tired of the RedHat/SuSE/Debian/ad infinitum battles. Is it really cool to make your own distro just because you don't like the way one developer does something?

The pot is calling the kettle black here (1)

donscarletti (569232) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841005)

There's also a difference in motivation. "Linux people do what they do because they hate Microsoft. We do what we do because we love Unix," De Raadt says. The irony, however, is that while noisy Linux fanatics make a great deal out of their hatred for Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ), De Raadt says their beloved program is starting to look a lot like what Microsoft puts out. "They have the same rapid development cycle, which leads to crap," he says.

OpenBSD people evidently do what they do because they hate Linux, NetBSD and FreeBSD and have a dismissive opinion of Windows. It always amazes me when someone like Mr de Raadt tries to claim that Linux is wholly driven by a deep dissagreeable nature, especially given his history with the Net BSD project. Maybe he could have proved that he was only motivated by love of UNIX if he managed to swallow his pride and cooperate with Net BSD and possibly held his tongue with respect to Linux. However he shows us time and time again that what he does is all for ego and to degrade other open OSs.

It's finally happened (1)

Araxen (561411) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841009)

The trolls have made it to the front page of Slashdot and got an article posted!

Any OS has it's good and bad points (1)

medix1 (883305) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841013)

I do not care if it is windows, Lunux, BSD, unix or whatever OS you use, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I like both windows and *nix OS's depending on what I am trying to do. I would not go into an office and just put linux on every desktop just because "it is much better than windows." There are a lot of other things to consider such as training costs and is there an available port to any business critical programs. I am beginning to hate these "my OS is better than your OS" arguements.

7-11 versus National Bank. (4, Funny)

Nijika (525558) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841019)

So the National Bank says to the 7-11, "your security sucks!" The 7-11 says "Yeah but we've got slurpees."

And that's about as much sense as this conversation makes.

Well... (1)

FidelCatsro (861135) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841032)

Its not for losers but i would say its nearly ready for lusers.
De-Raadt says nothing about it being for losers but he does say its terrible and in my opinion he is wrong ,i wont get drawn into a slapping war about this as i like *BSD aswell

Could be worse (1)

myenigmaself (602643) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841033)

At least
// does this belong here?
is better than
// what does this do?

TheDailyBSDWTF.com (1)

christoofar (451967) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841035)

We need to start a www.dailtywtf.com just based on OpenBSD source code... alone!

Damn (1)

It doesn't come easy (695416) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841037)

My computer just burst into flames...

Switched from Linux because of a comment? (4, Insightful)

cpn2000 (660758) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841038)

From the article ...

Lok Technologies, a San Jose, Calif.-based maker of networking gear, started out using Linux in its equipment but switched to OpenBSD four years ago after company founder Simon Lok, who holds a doctorate in computer science, took a close look at the Linux source code.

"You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, 'Does this belong here?' "Lok says. "What kind of confidence does that inspire? Right then I knew it was time to switch."

So this guy switched from Linux to BSD not because he saw some poorly implemented code, but because of a comment?
That is absolutely insane.

Forbes bias (2, Insightful)

zifferent (656342) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841040)

Simply put I think Forbes has a teensy little bias.

From the other Linux related stories box on the page:

Wind River Gets Smart

Peace, Love and Paychecks

Linux Scare Tactics

Kill Bill

Linux Loyalists Leery

Linux's Hit Men

IBM Refuses To Indemnify Linux Users

Red Hat's Mad Matt Vs. Humongous SCO Lawsuit

IBM Takes Linux To A New Level

Why You Won't Be Getting A Linux PC

The Limitations Of Linux

PeopleSoft Jumps On The Linux Train

The Cult Of Linux

Honestly, Forbes obviously is FUD central when it comes to Linux.

Theo lacks class (2, Insightful)

capn_buzzcut (676680) | more than 9 years ago | (#12841043)

No matter what your endeavor is, blabbing about how bad your competitors are shows a lack of professionalism and class. If this is the prevailing mentality of the *BSD guys, I'll stick with Linux just BECAUSE they think it sucks.
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