No 3G for HP Until 2007 90
An anonymous reader writes to tell us CNet is reporting that HP will not be bringing 3G support to any of their new 'smart phones' until at least 2007. From the article: "[HP] cites the costs associated with the service, coupled with the fact that 3G's killer app -- TV and video streaming -- isn't yet viable on mobile phones as the primary reasons for its decision. '3G is still only occupying 3% of the world pie,' HP's Vice-President for Consumer Products and Mobile Business Group in the Asia-Pacific region, Chin-Teik SEE, told CNET.com.au at the company's 'magical mobility launch' event in Hong Kong last week."
HP makes phones?? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:HP makes phones?? (Score:1)
I suppose I've learned to just ignore anything with the acronym "HP" in the sentence. :-P
Re:HP makes phones?? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:HP makes phones?? (Score:1)
If all parties (Score:4, Insightful)
-Mark
Re:If all parties (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not that 3G might not happen - it's whether *some markets* will end up preferring WLAN before 3G gets a good foothold. Because either way, it's going to be IP that ties it all together before long. It all depends on good phones and good flat-rate data plans.
Re:If all parties (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:If all parties (Score:2)
Re:If all parties (Score:1)
There's no killer app for 3G at present, but it's a great upgrade to the slow GPRS. A coworker of mine owns an IMate JASJAR, which has a large touchscreen and switches seamlessly between WLAN, 3G and 2G Data Networks. Hence he is able to browse the internet at the fastest available speed at a viable resolution wherever he likes. He even uses it in his h
The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:5, Insightful)
The logical application of higher bandwidth on mobile phones is just an extension of current phone capabilities. Namely, increased mail functionality like graphics and graphical icons, and music downloads. In the business sphere, it makes sense to utilize that bandwidth for file transfers from one mobile phone to another.
But streaming video wasn't ever really high on anyone's list of MUST HAVE functionality. At least not on the user side.
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:2)
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:3, Insightful)
Overall, the increased bandwidth will be useful for lots and lots - you get your better graphics, I get my useful wireless connection on a laptop or PDA. I could also imagine mobile videophones finally taking off, once the bandwidth and processing power are there.
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:2, Informative)
If sending camera-phone photos becomes painless (not having to wait 5 minutes for a tiny picture to upload or download), or using non-ASCII characters becomes simple, then you've got yourself what I described in the original post.
If you mean something else, I'd love to know what.
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:2)
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:4, Insightful)
No, but the problem for the telcos is how to soak up that bandwidth and keep charging for it. If you provide a big enough pipe at a price affordable for video, you're also providing enough of a pipe for the VOIP that's going to undercut your high-margin call charges.
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:1)
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:1)
I'd prefer to see voice rates kept lower than packet rates...
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:1)
Re:The logical application of 3G bandwidth (Score:2)
Ever had a job (Score:2)
boss: "Meet me at X between 3PM and 5:30pm..."
Me: "I'm sorry, which-- 3pm or 5:30?"
boss: "be there from 3pm til I get there by 5:30 at the latest"
that's why I kept ebooks in my cellphone..... video wouldn't kill me for that either..
(although paying a lot for it would)
What I want to know (Score:2)
Re:What I want to know (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What I want to know (Score:2)
Yeah, I figured that. [wikipedia.org]
Re:What I want to know (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What I want to know (Score:2)
For the same price in Japan (Score:2)
Which would you rather have?
People keep claiming that Japanese cells are way ahead of American ones. Hogwash. They have lots of irrelevant features that American one
Why is voice worse in Japan? (Score:2)
In return for that, I get all sorts of cutesy icons and featu
Re:What I want to know (Score:1)
Even more strangely, wired pay-phones have been increasing in price in a time where long-distance calls are pretty much free...
Basic supply in demand: For inelastic goods, lowering the price a little won't increase quantity demanded much [not enough to make up for profit lost due to lower price]... Thus, it is in the supplier's interest to keep prices high. I believe
Hahaha, no (Re:What I want to know) (Score:1)
Cellcos, particularly in Europe and especially in the UK, Germany and some other countries, have paid huge 3G spectrum license fees that they have to get the consumer to pay. Governments were very pleased to get such a huge windfall - do you, the voting mobile phone user, think it was such a good idea now? Did you ever think anyone but you were going to pay for that license?
There's also the rather huge cost of deploying the necessary infrastructure.
Both
It's not that long... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's not that long... (Score:2)
Wireless Internet (Score:3, Interesting)
Vodafone mobile Connect (Score:1)
That's fast enough for home use IMO; I used to use a Ricochet for home service in San Francisco.
What stands in my way here is the pricing model. It's £1/MB after I reach my 200MB threshold.
Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality? (Score:5, Insightful)
Telcos don't get it. Provide bandwidth, and let people build services that run on that bandwidth. Being greedy with the apps.. means you get to put a great big 3G waste of money in your pipe (and smoke it).
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:2)
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:2)
They already do... (Score:2)
BroadbandAccess is their name for EV-DO, i.e. average speeds of 400-700 kbps, up to 2.4 Mbps. Unfortunately, EV-DO is only available in major cities; everywhere else, you have to fall back to 1xRTT at 60-100 kbps (up to 144 kbps).
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:2)
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:3, Insightful)
No, actually they do get it. A one way ticket to obsolescence is just being a bandwidth provider. Ask any mid-level dialup ISP from the 90s how they're doing today now that Comcast and SBC have deployed broadband. Where do you think wireless providers will be if someone actually deploys wi-fi throughout a city, or a new technology comes along that provides 5mbit download speeds anywhere?
That's why ever
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:2)
THAT is the point of VCast and every other lame attempt to avoid becoming just pure bandwidth providers.
Everybody loves selling things with zero marginal cost. I know I do.
Would you buy an operating system for your computer from Ford Motor Company? If you could, would you expect it to be produced efficiently and be a quality product? (perhaps I selected a bad example
Telcos are horrible at providing services and media, and they don't know what content or applications people want. Never mind they alread
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:1)
Well, you kind of did, because OSes and cars have nothing to do with each other. However if you look at GM's OnStar service, there you have a good example of a service that a car maker has branched into for added revenue (not that it's helped much in their case)
I agree that telcos are horrible at pro
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:2)
You think the internet rates are insane, but you happily send SMS messages? How much do you pay for one of these 160byte mini-emails anyway?
Re:Is anyone actually using tv phone functionality (Score:1)
US Cellphone system nearly irrelevant anyway (Score:4, Insightful)
CDMA, TDMA, but not GSM for the most part.
Sure, we have a couple of GSM providers, but on an alien frequency (1900).
Add to that the greed of the N. American phone and cellphone providers, and not much in the way of progress is likely to happen here.
So, 3G will slowly push ahead in Asia, where all the tech now is, Europe will follow, and that's all folks.
In the meantime tech like WIMAX will progress, people will soon have portables using that or similar, VoIP on wireless will take off, and pretty soon cell phones as a separate device for talking (only) will become obsolete.
3G is already here ... (Score:2, Informative)
The 3G coverage is still pretty small (Paris and most big cities I think) but 3G phones are being marketed there (mostly high end phones).
As for the services, apparently its mostly TV on your mobile and faster internet speeds.
As for the US, The first US cell phone provider (Cingular)is using GSM, on both 800 and 1900. (Europe is using 900 and 1800), so its not that alien at all. They also have started deploying UMTS (aka 3G) in
Re:3G is already here ... (Score:2)
If you're just comparing the technologies, CDMA still has around 50% more customers in the US than GSM, and CDMA is where the real 3G rollout is taking place here. 1xRTT is available nationwide at up to 144 kbps; 1xEV-DO
Re:US Cellphone system nearly irrelevant anyway (Score:3, Insightful)
You can't buy new TDMA service anymore, and GSM is the only option for new service on T-Mobile, Cingular. Yes, only a couple--two of the biggest nationals, due to mergers/buy-outs, but actually it's quite a few more [gsmworld.com].
And "alien frequency"? Who cares? It's not exactly very difficult to make 1900 (or 850 as also used in the US) when you already have 900/1800...
Re:US Cellphone system nearly irrelevant anyway (Score:2)
ian
Australia seems to be going backwards (Score:3, Interesting)
Although the network has a much larger range then WiMax, the bandwidth won't be cheap and it looks like Australia is going to go through the same crap it has gone through Wired Broadband, suffering poor bandwidth at high prices and a very slow adoption rate.
Hopefully startup's like Unwired who are investing in WiMax infrastructure manage t
Re:US Cellphone system nearly irrelevant anyway (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:US Cellphone system nearly irrelevant anyway (Score:1, Insightful)
Really? I don't see PDAs and the like replacing cell phones unless it's batteries don't need recharging every few hours. If I can't keep it on for more than, say, 6 hours, it's pretty useless to me as a phone, no matter what other "cool features" it has or the insane amount of available
They think it's all over (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe he should take a look at the competition first http://planet3.three.com.au/mobileTV/sport_cricke
Re:They think it's all over (Score:5, Funny)
Re:They think it's all over (Score:2)
Wait.
That would be free. Can't have that can we?
Re:They think it's all over (Score:2)
I think you miss the real problem.
What's stopping you watching a full cricket match on your mobile? Not the bandwidth. Not the provider. Not the licensing.
It's that a full cricket match lasts for a WEEK. Good luck finding a battery that lasts that long :)
Cell Phones (Score:1, Insightful)
IMHO its a waste of bandwidth. Instead of offering ESPN live feeds (a dull "yay") pass that bandwidth so its actually useable.. I'm forced to use a sierra cord on the road.. (verizon) and the speeds are just... not there.. more like a typical dial up connection (
Re:Cell Phones (Score:1)
Copycats (Score:1)
True for GSM, but False for CDMA (here and "cheap" (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:True for GSM, but False for CDMA (here and "che (Score:2)
That's true, but is anyone making money out of it? The only person I know who has a 3 phone is my (ahem) personal trainer, who appears to have switched because it's cheap. And 3's latest campaign to get people to switch is offering to _pay_ for incoming calls (ie splitting t
How accurate is the article? (Score:2)
UMTS is still an infant technology with very few successful rollouts outside of the U.S. and no rollouts whatsoever within the U.S. HP would be very smart not to support UMTS, given its abysmal track record.
On the other hand, not supporting CDMA2000 1xEV-DO in the U.S. market would be suicidal with any new smartphone. Note that it seems like this announcement was made by one of their Asian region VPs, so he may indeed have been talking about UMTS.
One more note. (Score:2)
Thus, not putting in UMTS would be a wise decision for them. Their units will have no problems competing in the U.S. on GSM-based providers, and they're not even bothering to try competing with EV-DO capable CDMA phones - they won't work on Verizon or Sprint networks at all.
ugh (Score:4, Insightful)
Do these morons really think I want to pay them to watch 160x120 videos of the black eyed peas on my phone? This is not the killer app you are looking for!
Re:ugh (Score:3, Insightful)
Just think of it, all those ads you see on MTV for jamba packages with 3 ringtones for 5 euro, no sane person would use that, but still they're apparently making lots of money on it (howelse would they be able to pa
Re:ugh (Score:3, Funny)
Not everyone lives in a country that uses quad damage power ups for money.
Re:ugh (Score:3, Interesting)
They just have not accepted that people just want reasonably priced IP connectivity. They want to lock people to their own services and charge money for something else than just transmitted bytes.
The operators in my country (.fi) have been complaining that there is too much competition to allow them to develop new services. I say: your new services s
Wow, smart guy. (Score:1)
Reasons for embracing 3G (Score:4, Informative)
* 3G video calls are charged at the same rate as your current voice rates. That's very forward thinking in my opinion, as it means there is no cost differential between making a voice call or a video call. Video calling is great, don't knock it till you've tried it. I'm hearing impaired and the streaming quality of 3G is so good that I can lipread the person at the other end and have a proper conversation; something I've never been able to do until 3G and 3G cellular phones were introduced (I'm using a Sony Ericsson V600i fyi)
* 3G data usage is charged at the rate of R2/mb, which is around 0.32 USD per megabyte. That's for out-of-bundle rates, so if you signed up for a data bundle, the per megabyte rate would be even lower. Data speeds are unbelievably fast - last week I had to retrieve an email attachment in the client basement parking (prior to a meeting with the client). Attachment was 2Mb in size, it took less than a minute to download it. I have noticed, however, that this depends on how crowded a 3G cell area is - the more 3G users, the slower the speeds.
The next technology on the horizon that will replace 3G is HSPDA (High-Speed Downlink Packet Access) which in theory should offer around 2Mbit/sec. Until then, 3G is a very good stepping stone that will last for a few years yet, and I would think that manufacturers who don't hop onto the 3G bandwagon reasonably early stand to lose a lot of their potential marketshare.
Cheers
Re:Reasons for embracing 3G (Score:2)
3G data usage is charged at the rate of R2/mb, which is around 0.32 USD per megabyte. That's for out-of-bundle rates, so if you signed up for a data bundle, the per megabyte rate would be even lower. Data speeds are unbelievably fast - last week I had to retrieve an email attachment in the client basement parking (prior to a meeting with the client). Attachment was 2Mb in size, it took less than a minute to download it.
God, I should move to Africa. Here in Canada with Rogers it costs 7 dollars [shoprogers.com] for a plan
What? They already have a 3G laptop. (Score:2, Interesting)
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/321
"not yet viable?" (Score:3, Insightful)
Killer App ? (Score:3, Interesting)
For me the useful things my current phone (Sony Ericsson K750i) does are the camera (2 megapixel) and the MP3 player (1 gig capacity). Means I carry one thing in my pockeet instead of three.
The real killer app for me is the ability to control my PC with it over bluetooth, handy for presentations and stuff, and for the look on peoples face when the PC suddenly gets a mind of its own.
The most I've ever used the internet access for is to check football (soccer) results on a Saturday afternoon when I wasn't near a TV.
"Old" HP vs "New" (Score:4, Interesting)
The new HP is worried about "nascent markets", and is delaying enabling products.
The old HP brought us RPN, and some fine diagnostic kit, that was new and exciting.
The new HP brings us reasonable office printers. I guess it isn't nascent; I like my HP 3015.
They are sure boring now, which is sad because HP is a melange of companies that sure were not boring. HP: first in micro tech, diagnostics, DEC: first in minis, COMPAQ: first in PC cloners.
It looks like first becomes last after two mergers.
Ratboy
Re:"Old" HP vs "New" (Score:2)
This just in... (Score:2)
What is this? The middle ages? I don't know about the US but the rest of us here have moved on from GSM/TDMA/CDMAOne. Hell, I've been using UMTS for over 2 years now and I'm wondering when the hell smart phone manufacturers were intending to catch up.
Power Use (Score:2, Informative)
Perhaps, next generation of 3G radios will provide longer battery life. After all there is only so much one can do with a 3Wh battery.
4G (Score:1)
Meh! I care not, I built my own, sort-of (Score:2)
Ack! Bullshit (Score:2)
Best of all? I've got putty on my phone. You cant beat having access to your servers 24/7. It's nothing you use for casual use, but for emergencies it's unbeatable.
HP is Smoking Crack Pipe (Score:1)
That's strange... (Score:2)