Come the Revolution 165
GamesIndustry.biz has a piece looking at what game developers think will be required to ensure that Nintendo's Revolution doesn't go the way of the GameCube. From the article: "While this mutual exploitation between indies and Nintendo may grant the GameCube some stay of execution, the Kyoto giant's next home console will require a very different approach to marketing. Solid details about the Revolution remain sparse, yet Nintendo has stated it hopes to attract a different audience to the one being aggressively chased by Microsoft and Sony. This is the console that will support a back catalogue of twenty years' worth of Nintendo games, as well as new titles utilising the intriguing new controller."
Older is better (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Older is better (Score:3, Interesting)
Game Boy Player and Revolution Live Arcade (Score:2)
You mean like the Gameboy Player addition for the GCN?
Yeah, but you'll probably still have to leave your GameCube hooked up, as the Revolution isn't expected to have the GameCube High Speed Port through which the Game Boy Player sends input, video, and audio data. In addition, a lot of Game Boy titles don't work on the Game Boy Player; most notably, these include 8-bit games that use an external keyboard, 8-bit games that use the early 4-player adapter, those that use a tilt sensor, sun sensor in the Ga
Re:Older is better (Score:2)
"Decades of Games
Revolution will play all of your favorite Nintendo GameCube games, and deliver downloadable access to 20 years of fan-favorite titles originally released for Nintendo 64, the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) and even the Nintendo Entertainment System (NES)."
I would say that qualifies. Check it out at www.nintendo.com/revolution
Gamecube - premature death? (Score:4, Informative)
Agree (Score:4, Insightful)
It's alive and kicking at my house. I do not plan to replace it anytime soon. We get a game maybe 2x per year. The games are fun for everyone to play, same as the older nintendo games.
Re:Agree (Score:2)
Re:Agree (Score:2)
Re:Agree (Score:2)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm in the UK, and the article is pretty accurate, the 'Cube has dissapeared from most retailer's shelves (partly pushed out by the PSP, and ironically, the DS), and it's pretty much relegated to small amounts of shelf space in specialist games shops. I'm sure people get lots of play out of their 'Cubes, but Nintendo will probably have trouble selling more games and consoles when they can't pursuade shops to actually sell them.
Nintendo fans shouldn't worry totally, the cash cows of the Game Boy and DS are doing far better.
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
i have a ps2 myself but my next one shall be a nintendo revolution i think.
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:1)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
Yes, dead as a platform (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yes, dead as a platform (Score:2)
Re:Yes, dead as a platform (Score:2)
Is development for the Gamecube slowing down? No question - it's slowing down for EVERY current-gen system. Does the PS2 trump the 'Cube in software library size? Yes, it does. But I don't get people who act like
Re:Yes, dead as a platform (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yes, dead as a platform (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:1)
There's one thing that I clamor for openly, and as a flashcart user : Nintendo needs to sell flash carts with a downloadable games system. Stick fifty games in the cart, no issue, put it in the GBA slot, and voilà. Nintendo's flashme system, with a nice, legal interface which would allow indies to develop tons of fun little games.
Hey, Ninty! We also code HOMEBREWS THAT KICK ASS, so stop t
Nostalgia alert (Score:4, Insightful)
Gaming is just as expensive now as it's ever been. The atari 2600 launched at $3-400 in the seventies. SNES carts like FFIII, Chrono Trigger, and The Seventh Saga (which SUCKED) made their debut at 74.99 and STAYED there. The concept of "greatest hits" titles didn't show up until the psx era...the $19.99 game is a VERY new thing, relatively speaking.
In regards to your "flash cart" idea..it's not bad but it's already being done one better. Xbox live arcade has good classic and independent games available for only a couple of bucks. You don't even need the hard drive, you can use the memory card. Nintendo is making their classic library available to download to the built in flash RAM on the Revolution. (prices haven't been announced but come on now, we're talking 15 year old ROM images here.)
combine this with a booming used games market and you have nothing to complain about. There's a good case to be made that 2006 is a cheapass gamer's wet dream.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Nostalgia alert (Score:2)
Re:Nostalgia alert (Score:2)
The 19.99 greatest hits concept is not new.. I used to buy 2nd tier Atari 2600 games for $19.99. The better games went for $29-39. My how times have changed...
Re:Nostalgia alert (Score:2)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
That's because that's where Nintendo stands out. When I choose which platform to buy a game for I use basically two broad criteria. Cost and "experience" (platform fanboyism isn't one). If a game is cheaper for one of the platforms I'll get it for that one, unless it's significantly "less good" (such as no online). Cost being equal I'll then choose the game that gives me the best experience. This is s
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2, Interesting)
Basically I had the PS2 for the Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, and GTA franchises. The Cube is what I used for everything else.
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
I think that the Revolution will suffer from this even more than the GC did. The GC controller wasn't bad, and I think was the most comfortable of the controllers for this generation if you were playing a game designed for it, but it was just diff
Re:Gamecube - premature death? (Score:2)
Go where? (Score:5, Insightful)
You mean, make a profit from the start, build a good base of great games, and offer a wide range of stellar games? They make money, have a good base of people, and offer the best multiplayer on 1 system without falling short. Games are smooth are intriguing. I have no intention of buying a $400-500 system.
My money is going to Nintendo, espically for castlavania, Smash Bros, Mario, Zelda, Golf, Baseball, and all the party games. Rock on Nintendo.Re:Go where? (Score:5, Interesting)
If the Revolution sells fewer units than the GameCube, it's going to be hard for anybody, even Nintendo fanboys and Nintendo themselves to see that as anything but a failure. As the article explains, they need move beyond their niche appeal and break into the mainstream somehow if they don't want their home console business to sink into the abyss. If the rate of decline of sales in this generation doesn't improve from the last generation, the Revolution will barely sell more units than the Dreamcast.
I personally think Nintendo will recover in this generation, though. That's what I'm hoping, anyway. The 360 launch debacle and the PS3 delay certainly can't hurt. Nintendo is in a position to pull off a huge upset if things fall into place.
Re:Go where? (Score:5, Insightful)
NES - practically no competition. 60 million units
SNES - competition was the Genesis, which did somewhat weakly. 49 million units, still not bad.
N64 - up against the PSX. 32 million units is still pretty strong sales considering what it was up against
GameCube - 21 million. Up against the PS2 and Xbox.
While using the 60 million as a baseline for future sales is bad metrics, it puts things into perspective when you consider the competition each iteration of Nintendo hardware was up against. The N64 sells half as many units as the NES, but unlike the NES has strong competition to go against. GameCube has 2 strong consoles to compete against, and sells 1/3 as many units.
Re:Go where? (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not going to sound the death knell for Nintendo, but when your installed base decreases while your potential market increases, there's no way to make that look positive.
Re:Go where? (Score:2)
That despite lower unit volume they're making a nice profit? That they're making a profit while one of their so-called "superior" competitors is hemmoraging money? That they're dominating the hand-held market?
Yes, their console isn't numero-uno when it comes to marketshare - but what value is marketshare without profit? I ask that honestly - the goal of a business is to make money. If marketshare helps them do that, then great - but in the case of consoles, it seems like Ni
Re:Go where? (Score:2)
That's true of the XBox and XBox360, and may be true of the PS3 as well. However as far as i know the PS2 succeeded on its own merits (if one includes Sony's predatory marketing division as one of those merits) and not because of any subsidizing of the console itself.
I like Nintendo, i like their consoles and their games and i think any
Re:Go where? (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I am a Nintendo fanboy. But they don't sell as well as Sony or MS. That's a fact... the competition is there, but the same is true for the competition too.
PS2 sold 100 million consoles worldwide, and it had competitors. Why is it interesting the Cube sales? They aren't, and they sucked. Yeah, yeah, profit and all that, but you shouldn't talk about market share this way. Can't fool the numbers
Re:Go where? (Score:2)
How long were they available? (Score:2)
First of all, the Cube sold 1/3 as well as the NES. That's a whole lot better than I expected.
Second, does anyone know how long these consoles were available? I think the NES had a pretty long life, while the early introduction of the 360 makes the Cube's life rather short.
Re:Go where? (Score:2)
No shit, Einstein ;)
Considering the success of the DS, the Revolution is likely to break out of the profitable niche Nintendo is currently operating in. Yes, a profitable niche. You don't need to be #1 to make money, as proven by Nintendo and others, such as Apple. But I believe that the Revolution, like the DS, will attract new players, expanding the market, and making Nintendo truckloads of money on the process.
Re:Go where? (Score:2, Interesting)
I love Nintendo games. Their back catalog is far and away the best of any developer. Their games weren't just good, they had a timeless quality. They are a top quality developer all the way to this day too. Still, you gotta be realistic here.
Nintendo's real success has been in software, not hardware. In hardware they had a near monopoly 15 years ago and it has been in free fall decline. They've gone from first place by far to niche player in the market. The N64 and Gamecube both completely missed
How does the Gamecube misses? (Score:2)
Re:How does the Gamecube misses? (Score:2)
But nowadays the Gamecube are chipable aswell. But I guess the games are harder to come buy than for the Xbox and even PS2.
Re:Go where? (Score:2)
In fact, this past Christmas, I could've bought an Xbox 360 but instead I asked my wife for a Game Cube and Metroid Prime 2. I've been playing it since, am 90% through the game and I *love* it. And it only cost $120 (GC plus MP2) and came with another game. We have a few games for it that we all enjoy, bought An
Please give me a list (Score:2)
Metroid Prime I and II
Zelda windwaker
Prince of persia: The two thrones
Worms 3D
Super Mario Strikers
Re:Please give me a list (Score:2)
Pikmin 1+2
Mario Sunshine
Paper Mario
Re:Go where? (Score:2)
The Gamecube may have great games, but it appears to UK gamer would much rather buy PlayStation 2 or Xbox stuff instead. People do note the Japanese like different games to the US, so it's obvious that the UK is going to have different tastes to the US, and that includes less of a love for Nintendo.
I should note things like Eye Toy and other PS2 par
My $.02 (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm very happy that Nintendo is willing to take a gamble and keep with their trend of making GAME systems. One only has to compare the DS with the PSP to find that a GAME system is what more people want. Yes there are people that like the PSP for all its media functionality, but should that be in a game system? Why not just buy a PDA for that? You'd have the ability to view a wider range of media in that case
When I first heard about how Nintendo was planning on this new controller idea, having the back catalog of games, and keeping it just a game system I knew I wanted one. Nintendo has always been more focused on gameplay I feel. I did own a GameCube, and the Nintendo franchise game validated the purchase. I only wish I still had it for the upcoming Zelda game.
Personally I think that MS jumped the gun a bit with the 360. As has been mentioned countless times prior, it isn't much of an improvement over the previous XBox. I have a feeling that the PS3 might get pigeonholed into that same category (though I still will likely get one for Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, and other PS only series), but the Revolution is the one thing that I'm truly waiting for because it's the only one to promise doing something new and different.
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
That should say a lot about the PSP to Sony, but they don't listen well. Instead we get more DRM enabling happiness and a web browser.
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at (Score:2)
That sa
Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at (Score:2)
Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at (Score:2)
Gee, good thing it's not a desktop CPU.
Nobody has yet to come up with a way to turn standard game code into 9-way SMP DSP code.
A) There's been no incentive to make "standard game code" run on an architecture like the Cell... because no previous consoles utilized such architectures.
B) I'm not particularly even talking about "standard game code". I really don't care if FIFA '07 or CS: Binary or whatever runs well on the Cell. I'm excited by the pos
Re:The PS3's hardware is nothing to sniff at (Score:2)
When I said "Real World Applications" I meant Games. What are you expecting? That they next generation of Hardware is going facilitate some software revolution? That the games of 12-36 months from now are going to magically transform into programs that don't follow a standard game loop of
while(GameIsRunnni
Let's break that down... (Score:2)
Practically a no-op, in CPU terms.
DoAI()
Parallelism shines here for large-scale AI (i.e., many actors).
UpdateWorldState()
With AI out of the equation, this is essentially game logic and physics. Physics calculations are particularly well-suited for offloading to an SPU (or three). I expect the actual utilization here to be quite high, considering the emergence of specialized game physics libraries. Game logic is rarely CPU-intensive enough to warrant mention.
PlaySound()
PlayMusic()
Ag
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
Re:My $.02 (Score:1)
Dude, its a game console. Designed for games, not a media center.
So far the games are pretty slick. Play Kameo for a half hour and you'll be hooked.
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
Go to Best Buy/CompUSA/Etc. and try to buy a Windows computer that does NOT run MCE...
It is far more than the
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
Yeah, you may be right, but in that case they're competing with the Mac mini and the ipod. For digital convergance Apple is the one ahead of the game there.
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
Re:My $.02 (Score:2)
The elephant in the room (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The elephant in the room (Score:2)
Re:The elephant in the room (Score:2)
Aside from the UK being the boondocks of the console game market, Brits haven't been very keen on buying Nintendo (ever). Why should they follow Microsoft's example in Japan when there are plenty of people in other markets more than happy to buy Nintendo hardware and software?
Re:The elephant in the room (Score:2)
That was my initial thought as well, but guess what else is scheduled for a fall release? That's right, the Nintendo Revolution. So the Twilight Princess isn't exactly going to be the game that is going to hold us over until the release of the Revolution. If anything it may be the first game we play on the Revolution. It's the GameCube's swan song, or the Revolution's fanfar
Re:The elephant in the room (Score:2)
Re:The elephant in the room (Score:2)
The Revolution will be great (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, my xbox can play every NES, SNES, Gameboy, and N64 game. I hate that the only options I have to play a lot of these games is to buy the system / games used on eBay which in no way rewards the original developers.
Plus it would be cool if they add online functionality to games. Anyone up for an online game of Goldeneye?
Re:The Revolution will be great (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:The Revolution will be great (Score:2)
Btw, it is misquoted. Due to slashdot's truncation, I presume?
Money Talks. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Money Talks. (Score:1)
Re:Money Talks. (Score:2)
There are some HDTVs that can display a low resolution picture and it looks just fine, but there are also some HDTVs (LCD) that are at a set resolution. Have you ever
go way of the gamecube? (Score:4, Insightful)
ummm what would that be? out selling the xbox 360?
I'm not even joking or pulling numbers out of my arse or anything, just look here [dsfanboy.com] and see for yourself. The GameCube is outselling the xbox360 in Japan.
Re:go way of the gamecube? (Score:2)
Although the Gamecube hasn't done as badly as the Xbox did in Japan, it kinda ran out of steam a couple of years ago, and has been in a decline ever since.
Re:go way of the gamecube? (Score:1)
Re:go way of the gamecube? (Score:2)
Re:go way of the gamecube? (Score:2)
When my favorite band's CD comes out, I'm generally not worried about it selling out, so I just go pick it up at my convenience. When my favorite band comes around in concert, there are limited tickets, so I generally line up for it (well...except that ticketbastard has pretty much killed that option off, with their presale BS and random line shuffling BS, but now I'm off
So is... (Score:2, Insightful)
I had a point somewhere...
Well.. uh.. the GPX2 is probably outselling the Xbox as well..
Nintedo Dojo (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Nintedo Dojo (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm 30 years old, I've been gaming for over 20 of those years, I own every current (xbox360) and previous generation console (NGC, PS2, Xbox) and I've never played a Zelda game. Ever. I'm sure they're great, and lots of people seem to love them, which is nice, but they just don't appeal to me. When I was younger I didn't have a NES or SNES - in fact, Nintendo seemed to have very little penetration in my locale - ev
Re:Nintedo Dojo (Score:2)
For the record, the only Zelda game I could get into was Zelda II. Zelda I, and maybe I'm a total wuss, didn't ramp up the difficulty smoothly... it seemed like I was doing pretty good then I get to a part and bam, dead, bam, dead. (Of course the end castle in Zelda II is about the hardest thing EVER, but other than that
Re:Nintedo Dojo (Score:2)
Marketing the Revolution (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, I can kind of see the marketing problems that Nintendo will have to overcome, but I don't think it'll be that bad. One TV, one Revolution hooked up to the Internet, one or two controllers. Demo three launch games that make the most use of the fact that the controller is the way it is (I dunno, Pilotwings, Zelda and Super Duper Duck Hunt come to mind) and demo 10 downloadable games from past generations. Then stick a sign next to it saying you can play all 2,000 Nintendo games... ever.
Then make it look pretty. Can't be that hard, but you are relying on the open-mindedness of the consumer to this whole concept. Alternatively, open up Nintendo Stores, a la the Apple Store concept of three (or so) years ago... (keeping in mind that Sony [sonystyle.com] has already done it, to less effect)
Re:Marketing the Revolution (Score:2)
My take on it (Score:5, Insightful)
What's funny is I bought an N64 years ago, and I was pretty thoroughly disatisfied with the quality of the games for my age group. At the time I guess I was really into violent games and what have you. I loved Goldeneye and Zelda and Mario 64 but the rest just seemed too kiddish for me. I also didn't like how staying with cartridges seemed to chase out some third parties.
Now I'm a bit older, and as I play most new games I'm starting to realize they are striving for graphics over gameplay, and that the control design isn't even on their mind anymore. A FPS controlled with both thumbs at the same time isn't my idea of fun or interesting design. Consoles have come to be FPS machines as much as computers, except with mouselook it's easier to control. And the day I buy a mouse and keyboard for a console game is the day I stop playing console games.
Nintendo, doesn't seem to be focused on gearing things to adults. Which, at times can make you feel like a stupid man playing a kid's game. However, at least they try to innovate. Sony was more than happy to have everyone controlling 3d games using a d-pad until the N64 came out. Some of the best strategies for controlling 3d on a console were developed by Nintendo.
And now, I find myself looking at a market gone haywire. I skipped the xbox, PS2, and gamecube generation of consoles because I felt I had been burned so badly on having to buy both N64 and playstation to get my fix. And now, the price of consoles has gone up to an exorbant amount and every console maker seems intent on making a living room computer instead of a gaming system that would be fun to play with friends. But I already have a computer. I don't want to spend 500 bucks on something that plays FPS already played better on my computer. I want a console that will be fun, innovative, with games that look and feel different from the last 5 years of gaming. In short, I want a change from this MS/Sony norm, I want revolution.
While the other console makers are busy putting in every last doodad, into what will still simply be a game console to the public, and charging 5000 bucks for it. Nintendo slides in with a unique design, promises innovation and a developer platform for 1000, console at 150, you have to love that.
After all these years I'm thinking of doing what I thought I would never do again. I'm thinking of going back to the land from which classic console games came...Go revolution!
Re:My take on it (Score:2)
The Gamecube, IMO, largely fixed this problem. There were kid games, there were adult games, and th
Re:My take on it (Score:5, Insightful)
The only people who are worried about only playing "mature adult games" are 17 year old boys. Now the 17 year old boy market isn't going to disappear, as there'll always be more of them. But they're all going to grow up, and some of them are even going to get married and have kids. Then they'll be shopping for games one day at the age of 25, and realise "Madden 2008" and "Super dethkill 7" are kinda... boring. And they'll pick up a Revolution. Nintendo will make a profit on every one sold, Joe six-pack will get games he can play with his family, and he'll have an extra $200 to spend on beer / his kids / buying his missus the $50 present once a year on valentine's day for a little play.
Sony and Microsoft will continue to "have the most successful consoles", and be super-1337, and losing money hand-over-fist. Who cares?
I'll be at home playing Zelda.
Re:My take on it (Score:2)
The Madden series is generally a solid buy if you're a big football fan. If you play it a lot, it's worth spending $50 yearly to get roster updates and whatever other incremental improvements.
And Super Dethkill 7 was a good evolution of the series, which further refined the art of online Dethkilling.
Re:Lack of Mature Games (Score:2)
Its not a choice Nintendo made (Score:2)
I am concerned for Nintendo's long term success if great games do not come out on their console simply because they have aquired an image of being child friendly. Trying to skew their market towards people that are not traditionally gamers may turn out to be a great strategy. But you cannot deny that peoples perceptions pl
Ignore the Games and focus on Features (Score:2, Funny)
After all, it's always true that following the true path:
1. make FPS or Sport Game with little or no story line
2. put it on a console that you lose money on
3. expect people to buy lots of games, like say Final Fantasy I to XII.
4. Profit!
Let me put it this way (Score:3, Interesting)
Then I played on it
Now I hope the Revolution comes in purple.
Re:Great advertising! (Score:2)