Female Gamers Duke It Out 91
It's March, and that means that Women's History Month has rolled around again. The latest event put on by 'Women in Games International' was held in February; Both Wired and Gamasutra have rundowns on the event. Wired's coverage highlights the two camps of female gamers, the 'Frag Dolls' and the 'Casual Gamers' that populated the event. Gamasutra's piece discusses the exploration of women in all gamer roles. That, indeed, was the focus of the event: Women as players, designers, and gamers. From that article: "Margaret Wallace (Skunk Studios), also on the panel, railed against the industry for disenfranchising women. 'There's a push against women gamers from within the game industry,' she said. Games have been made 'with puke-humor' thought to be edgy, she said, wondering why developers don't see the direct correlation between the 'sophomoric' humor put into the games and women not liking them. 'They treat women as a mysterious nut to crack.' Wallace's advice: 'Make a game mechanic accessible.'" GameSetWatch also a blog post linking to some advice for female FPS players, especially 'aggressive young girls'.
Re:Obligatory (Score:2)
-Eric
women... cat fight? (Score:3, Funny)
Elaine: Ok, why? Why do guys do this? What is so appealing to men about a cat fight?
Kramer: Yeye cat fight!
Jerry: Because men think if women are grabbing and clawing at each other there's a chance they might somehow kiss.
Re:women... cat fight? (Score:2)
Trust me, there's nothing sexual in an angry woman. Not even with her body exposed. It'd look like some kind of monster... *shudder*
Re:women... cat fight? (Score:1)
Re:women... cat fight? (Score:1)
"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:3, Insightful)
Get off your asses and do something, or don't complain.
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:1)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:1, Insightful)
Knowing what I want does not translate into having the time and talent to pull it off.
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2)
-Eric
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting. So all women who wish games were less male orientated not only must be programmers, but enjoy the fun and exciting life of a game programmer- low pay, long hours, and a crappy high stress environment.
Luckily, there ARE more female friendly games out there: Kings Quest, Monkey Island, The Longest Journey...basically any game from the Adventure genre. Unfortunely, very few of these games are made an
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2)
All of a sudden those degrees in Women's Studies actually become useful.
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:1)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2)
I'm a man, a programmer and I love games (both tabletop and video), and I wouldn't touch the American gaming industry with a ten foot clown pole.
Which is really a shame. Of course, I have no idea about the gaming industry in other countries, like Japan [joystiq.com] (I did find that one article).
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2)
Has anyone here ever even *MET* one of these mythical creatures, much less been in a position to harass them out of the "gentlemen's club?" Where exactly are these hoards of would-be women game designer greats who are being held back by us evil men, anyway? I don't think I've ever met one, seen one at any conference, or even heard of one.
-Eric
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:1)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm thinking that getting Game Developers to write a realistic male would be nigh-impossible. Games tend to be a form of escapist fantasy that are intended to put you in situations you want to be in rather than situation you already are in.
Thus the male heros in games tend to be totally ripped, unnaturally smart, or outrageously funny. Now if you extend this to the female characters, what do you think happens?
Perhaps the only thing worse than the overendowed girls with useless body armor is the "tough girl" image. Thank goodness that the Samantha Carter character in StarGate moved away from the "I can pull 6Gs and win any hand-to-hand knife fight" character into a more realistic person. The show was much more interesting for it.
Now if only they hadn't had her get into a romantic relationship with every new regular on the show...
Sam's romances (Score:2)
Martouf and the Ancient guy whose name I can't remember. That's about it, really, aside from her undying love for Jack O'Neill. Oh, and there was Pete, who was BARELY recurring. So really, four-ish characters in 9 years... not terribly strange or excessive.
Re:Sam's romances (Score:2)
Re:Sam's romances (Score:2)
Captain Jonas Hanson - The former fiance to Samatha Carter. (Season 1 Ep. 6)
Fifth - The Replicator Dude that Sam gets to betray the replicators due to his infatuation with her. He later creates a RepliCarter who becomes a villian.
That makes 9.
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:1)
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:1)
Seriously though, don't some of these game designers have wives? Couldn't a couple of them run home and ask the lady what she thinks? Or are these not normal women (ie: non-gamers/rpgers/nerdy) either?
Perhaps have a game where the female characters with the ridiculous breasts just end up having them get in the way or complain about their backs. Or have her complain a lot in general (Anna Nicoleish) and annoy the player. Then slowly move t
Re:"...treat women as a mysterious nut to crack." (Score:2)
Two things: (Score:5, Insightful)
2. Disliking "sophmoric humor" in games isn't a "female" thing. It's an "I'm-not-twelve" thing.
Re:Two things: (Score:2, Insightful)
But that's exactly the thing. A significant number of males who play video games do so exactly because they want to feel like they're twelve again.
Re:Two things: (Score:4, Interesting)
I find the Fragdolls [fragdolls.com] website sort of amusing. It seems to do nothing but promote a few girls who play video games.. What else do they do?.. well they're semi-attractive 20-somethings, of course.. just look at their profiles [fragdolls.com], it's an amature modeling site.
That's unlike any clan I've ever been in. Most of the people in clan [DXM] were so overweight I doubt they could even stand upright for a whole photoshoot..
Their site is paid for by ubisoft, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make a bit on the side so they can devote more time to gaming and attracting males to specific areas such as x-box live games.
And what kind of "serious gamer" puts x-box as their mainstay? Last time I checked, half the genres out there are nearly unplayable without a mouse.
I'd imagine this type of thing would deter more women to play games than anything else.
I could be wrong though, I know when my girlfriend played Battlefield 2 she was all about flirting with the other team to get them to type more than play. We'd win nearly every round.
Re:Two things: (Score:3, Informative)
One of the Frag Dolls is also one of the co-founders of my clan, the PMS Clan [pmsclan.com], and a few more of them are members. They're not pretty faces that can barely play, they're all
Re:Two things: (Score:1)
Re:Two things: (Score:2)
"He said you're really an ugly girl
But I like the way you play"
It's really sad that, for a lot of people, attractiveness is more important for a woman then any skills she might have. If she's pretty, additional skills are a bonus. If she's not, then whatever skills she has are considered a waste. I've discussed this with my wife many times, about how its really no wonder that so many geeks have a hard time getting a girlfriend. They can't
Re:Two things: (Score:2)
Re:Two things: (Score:1)
Re:Two things: (Score:1)
Thank you.
Re:Two things: (Score:1)
Re:Two things: (Score:2)
I could be wrong though, I know when my girlfriend played Battlefield 2 she was all about flirting with the other team to get them to type more than play. We'd win nearly every round.
*sigh*
Re:Two things: (Score:1)
And that is the absolute, honest truth. A friend of mine works with her boyfriend. Went in to GAME to have a look around - "Hang on, isn't that? Isn't she that girl from the Frag Dolls?"...
They're so cool.
Re:Two things: (Score:1)
Re:Two things: (Score:2, Insightful)
Agreed. (Score:2)
I remember when the Atari came out and just salivating over it. I knew my large and barely middle class family could never afford it so I befriended a girl in my neighborhood I didn't really like who had Atari just so I could play it.
Pathetic? Totally, but it means I'm a gamer at heart and gamers like good games. Period.
My first and foremost love is and always will be Tetris, I used to go to great, silly, lengths to make sure I had the Tetris highs
WAS held in February (Score:5, Funny)
You trot them out once a year from the depths unknown and then tell us about it after it happened!?
Re:WAS held in February (Score:3, Funny)
Re:WAS held in February (Score:2)
-Eric
Re:pointless (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:pointless (Score:2, Informative)
Re:pointless (Score:1)
Re:pointless (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:pointless (Score:1)
Re:pointless (Score:2)
Greetings, citizen! You are in violation of section 38 of the Political Correctness Statute. Please place your hands in the yellow circles and prepare for a police action. Have a good day, citizen!
Anyone know famous female gamers? (Score:2)
Under-represented! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Under-represented! (Score:1)
Now my daughter plays anything -- she's seen to much of her Daddy and (older) brother playing not to get in on the action. I think we're still at it's another one of those "not a girl thing to do" stereotypes that will wear off (and it slowly is) as video games become more the norm in our daily lives. Think: video games as a mark of conservative
Re:Under-represented! (Score:2)
Re:Under-represented! (Score:2)
She must still be young. When my daughter was a kid, she would play anything. When she became a teenager, it was pure "girl games" from then on out. The closest she comes to "hardcore" gaming now is an MMORPG. And she spends most of her time on The Sims Online.
-Eric
Re:Under-represented! (Score:1)
I don't know...how can you resist the chance to frag Daddy?
Re:Under-represented! (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's just say that I was up until 6am on both Friday and Saturday nights last week because I finally got Black & White 2 to work on my computer. That game is just amazing -- probably one of the best I've ever played.
I like other genres too, though. I've wasted long hours on adventure games (King's Quest, Space Quest, etc.), virtual pet games (Petz, Creatures), and various multiplayer RPGs (MUDs in the past, WoW these days). I enjoy Civilization too, and I used to play Prince of Persia, Commander Keen, Duke Nukem, and Castle Wolfenstein when I was little.
I'm not sure if there's any one big secret behind female gamers. Just as there is no one genre that all men want, there isn't any one thing that every woman will like/want/buy. I mean, we're half the freakin' population -- why do people expect us to somehow NOT be as divided in our likes and dislikes as our male counterparts?
Seriously, just make good games in a variety of different genres and girls will play them.... and at least then you won't lose your entire male audience (along with a lot of girls as well) by dumbing everything down and coating it with pink.
Re:Under-represented! (Score:2, Informative)
More boys are born than girls, but more girls survive childhood than boys.
Re:Under-represented! (Score:2)
Most of the women I met in Second Life weren't interested in playing God, they were interested in designing clothing and stylish furniture.
-Eric
Nuts... (Score:2)
KEEP BREAKING MY HEART WHY DON'T YOU!!! *shawshank pose*
Story time (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Story time (Score:2)
Yeah, umhhh "relate". I'm sorry, but we don't do that.
"Anda's Game" is about as likely to get us to "relate" as "Jim's Game" is to give you "a hard-on for some blood-and-guts slaughtering!!"
-Eric
Women Roleplaying (Score:2, Insightful)
The also brought more hugs and kisses to the game.. No duh..
Re:Women Roleplaying (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Women Roleplaying (Score:2)
Re:Women Roleplaying (Score:2)
Hello? (Score:3, Informative)
Editors should catch this crap.
OT: link to the article instead of the blog (Score:2)
If blogs are going to be the unnecessary middleman of typewritten content(like intrusive ads), then let's just forget about logs.
But I never had really any faith in Zonk's story reporting.
A hint to some women. (Score:5, Insightful)
DOA Beachball or whatever it is called is aimed at the guys. There are 3 billion of them and while not all guys like DOA beachball even if a mere 10 percent likes the idea that is still a shitload of games.
To these women who wonder why some games are not aimed at them I ask them this. Why were there no carchases in Titanic? No sword fights, no half naked ninja killers asian teenage girls? We guys NEED THAT. The crappy soppy romance crap without any of the hardhitting political criteque that was in the original offends US!
There a guy games and their are girls games and their are gender neutral games. Just as for every other piece of entertainment. Soppy mindless romance drivel movies for the girls, crappy senseless violence for the boys. Or not.
Why do all games have to appeal to all people? Frankly the women becrying the guy games seem to want to turn all men into women. Not going to happen ladies. Especially not since those same women will be raising the next generations of crotch scratchers.
Don't blame game designed for guys that they don't appeal to girls unless your 100% sure games designed for girls appeal to guys.
I hate to see a game that appeals to everyone. Disney tries that. Ewh.
Re:A hint to some women. (Score:2)
That's true. He forgot to account for homosexuals.
-Eric
more "interesting" villains (Score:1)
Picture your character with the unions, cops, Feds, and gangs all trying to kill heesh (as you complete each mission, you get a new permanent ene
Opinions of men... (Score:4, Interesting)
Hey, I'm a GUY and I don't like seeing women objectified in video games. Not just because of how I think it might effect our culture, but because it really feels like a threat to my intelligence, and it reenforces male stereotypes just as much as it does female stereotypes. Game companies putting in big-titted, thongly dressed women over and over again just says to me, "we think that men only ever think about is sex, and from a purely physical standpoint." You see this stereotype reenforced everywhere in our culture, but this is usually completely exadurated. Sure, it makes sense to cast characters that are reasonably attractive, especially if we are supposed to connect and empathize with them, being "easy to look at" is a positive feature. But making them completely abnormally sexual, either in appearence or in personality, just destroys all empathetic connection with that character. If I wanted to just look at sexual women all the time, I'd probably just hang out at METArt all the time or subscribe to Penthouse.
Strangely enough, in narrative games, such as RPGs or adventure games, I think that there is a lot more diversity in female characterization than male charactization. For the guys, 95% of characters either fall into: "tough talking hero", "silent, hard-boiled badass", "innocent young boy", "wise, though cool, old geezer", and "silent seifer protagonist". For the women, you have you're typical "starry-eyed romantic lead", "boobulicious, overbearing young woman", and the "annoying, but cute little girl". Yet, I would only say that about 50%-60% of female characters in games fit into those distinct catagories, and even the ones that do tend to have much richer personalities than the guys.
Re:Opinions of men... (Score:1)
The dialogue commences:
'Guys, I think I've heard of an occurrence like this somewhere before. I believe it's called...I can't remember...the reindeer effect?'
The others look up from their terminals, checking to see if the guy was totally serious.
Hasnt this all been said before. (Score:2, Insightful)
'People are assuming that games have to be mindless in order for women to play them' - Since when??? the top game for equal play by the sexes is the Sims. Thats pretty much common knowledge in the industry how would that translate to the industry thinking women need a brainless game and at what point did they think this only ap