The Near Future of Intel 136
wh0pper wrote to mention a Design Technica story about the near-term future of Intel. They've been getting beaten in the press pretty soundly by AMD of late, and at the Intel Developer's Forum they did their best to convince attendees they were on the comeback trail. From the article: "It wouldn't be IDF if there wasn't a solid performance message. This time, Intel clearly had AMD in their sights. By a series of their products' massive performance improvements, Intel hit the ball back into AMD's court. With Microsoft's Vista operating system coming out at the same time, Intel showed how they have the higher performing solution. Clearly, we won't know until final systems ship. But Intel presented their case strongly, suggesting they can match AMD, if not beat them."
Gets you thinking... (Score:5, Funny)
Think of putting that network up for a hacking challenge on the web and having it totally violated in even less time than it took you to setup... Phew!! Good thing Intel isnt inside an Apple... ohhh shit. [ducks]
Vista to run in SMP mode only on new Intel procs (Score:1)
An attempt at humor. I'm sure they'd never stoop to this level.
Intel has been catching up lately... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Intel has been catching up lately... (Score:5, Interesting)
Lately AMD's development rate has slowed. Initially, I suspected they did this to hold better product back until Intel became competitive again, but after a year or so I believe they started to sit on their laurels.
The new intel designs will push AMD to work harder, which is a good thing. AMD's developers are very, very talented. It's sad to see the business side of the operation (even though its very practical for them) to tell the developers to slow down a little bit.
Expect AMD to start going full-tilt again.
You really think it works that way? (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason chip companies sometimes hold back on new product is because they can't always be certain of the exact time at which breakthroughs in these other areas will be made. Their companies depend on having a solid, reliable revenue stream, so they have to use release schedules to smooth out the apparent advances in chip speed. If they didn't do this, we'd all be sitting around, hoping against hope that this month would be the month the new chips come out, and worried about buying in case they come out tomorrow.
Which is more or less how Apple worked for a long time, because IBM wasn't able to smooth out its development curve. It wasn't pleasant.
Anyway. Overall chip development does not just scale depending on the moods of the employees at chip companies. Intel went off-track by being overconfident at one point, sure, but that was a five year thing involving a bad choice of roadmap. The idea that AMB is sitting on their laurels after a year is ridiculous.
Re:You really think it works that way? (Score:1, Troll)
Re:You really think it works that way? (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe you need to check more often then every 350 years. Fortunately, the Journal of Applied Physics has some RSS feeds [aip.org].
Re:You really think it works that way? (Score:3, Insightful)
Intel and Amd have fallen into a game of releasing microscopic advancements to pass each other. It's easier and it offers the long term potential of selling chips.
There aren't many doublings in power left before people just don't need anymore power.
For the average user who doesn't need to compile code there is already way too much
Re:You really think it works that way? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Intel has been catching up lately... (Score:3, Insightful)
Specifically: movies playing in a shorter time may not be important, but how about movies at real time? MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 can easily push current processors to the limit at HD resolutions when encoded with maximum codec complexity.
Check the source its Rob Enderle (Score:2)
Re:Check the source its Rob Enderle (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Check the source its Rob Enderle (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Intel has been catching up lately... (Score:2, Interesting)
Intel are increasingly developing technology that work *against* the customer rather than *for* them... and this is their future direction.
Everything done by Intel in the last 5-8 years has been driven completely by Digital Rights Management, and ensuring that the PC platform is completely locked down -- even if they so desperately want to avoid talking about it publicly. Remember the fuss over the "Fritz chip" -- it was a bill intended to force all electronic manufacturers to include a security chip to gu
Price war (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Price war (Score:5, Informative)
Ironically, it is slower in Freespace 2 (the new open source engine with fancy effects anyway) and SWAT 4, mostly for the lack of hardware T&L. Especially with relatively basic lighting effects in newer games, you can "feel" it slowing down as the CPU has to handle it. But a system amazingly over the top for modern gaming and heavy programming and other usage, that's quite a lot cheaper than how much you could get even a slightly usable system in 2002. I wish they made an AGP to PCI-E or even AGP to PCI adapter so I could use my Geforce 4 Ti4200-8X, which has absurdly reliable performance.
Plus there's the fact that it uses so little power, and runs about 32C stable, while under heavy gaming/compiling prolonged usage, with about 30C when not having to do much, amazingly quiet as well.
Re:Price war (Score:1)
Can't wait! check out their video.
Re:Price war (Score:1)
umm... how is that cheating? (Score:2, Insightful)
So let me get this straight... Intel could have left the AMD chip at the factory clock settings and thrashed it by a mile or it could have OVERCLOCKED it to give it an advantage against Intel's upcoming chip. This leads me to believe that you are just another retard who doesn't know what OVERCLOCK means. OVERCLOCKING from Wikipedia:
Yay go Intel! (Score:3, Funny)
if he cant do it, I BET AMD CAN!
How is this news? Intel's BRAND NEW processor can outperform a 1+ year old AMD X2?
Hey did you know that I can slap a buncha logic chips together and create a faster processor than ENIAC? DEAR GOD SOMEONE GIVE ME A MEDAL!
Re:Yay go Intel! (Score:3, Interesting)
It's even worse than that. This isn't a brand new processor, it's a future processor that they hope to have out in 6 months.
Re:Yay go Intel! (Score:3, Interesting)
Indeed. This is a new situation for Intel. What they have done is given out copies of early silicon to reviewers, to publish reviews of a product that they don't plan to have out of their fabs at any significant production level for quite some time. Quite embarrassing that Intel has been reduced to this, really. We're getting reviews of a product that no comsumer can buy, and won't be buyable for quite some time
Re:Yay go Intel! (Score:1)
Were you talking about Conroe or the upcoming FX-62? (both due at about the same time).
Re:Yay go Intel! (Score:1)
Conroe of course, coming out in six months.
Watch for it to be thrashed by the FX62
Re:Yay go Intel! (Score:1)
Heh... the AMD machine was what the FX-62 is going to be...
Re:Yay go Intel! (Score:2)
Not sure if this is a troll or just a delusional AMD fanboi. AMD will not gain a lot with DDR2. A64 chips are not bandwith starved. The Conroe core looks badass and I don't beleive the benchmarks will have the gap the Intel benchmarks presented but Conroe will regain the performance crown, IMO not by much but Conroe will win. Of course, you fail to see if AMD is the only good CPU mak
Re:Yay go Intel! (Score:3, Interesting)
Dell = Osbourne? (Score:1)
If you have an immediate need, it seems like an AMD chip is the one to buy today. In six months, that may change, but for today it's pretty clear.
There's a reason Intel has never before released processor details this far before availability. Their next quarter sales are very soft an
Re:Dell = Osbourne? (Score:2)
Re:Dell = Osbourne? (Score:1)
Fluff? (Score:3, Interesting)
So if you have not RTFA then don't worry your not missing anything!
Re:Fluff? (Score:1)
Re:Fluff? (Score:1)
Re:Fluff? (Score:2, Funny)
You're advising the
Clearly, we won't know until final systems ship. (Score:5, Insightful)
Need we discuss this any further?
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
TFA is weak, Here is Anand's updated benchmarks (Score:5, Informative)
Here is Anand's updated benchmarks.
http://anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=27
Re:TFA is weak, Here is Anand's updated benchmarks (Score:4, Interesting)
So Intel is finally catching up to and beating AMD in some regards. Mind you this is only one set of tests, but it may be indicative of a tightening of the processor battle.
Re:TFA is weak, Here is Anand's updated benchmarks (Score:1)
getCPUId() (Score:2, Funny)
Re:getCPUId() (Score:1)
Re:getCPUId() (Score:1)
Article is drivel. (Score:5, Insightful)
Typical quote: What? What are you talking about? Are you suggesting manufacturers will ship games on flash chips? And what the hell do laptops have to do with anything?
Nothing I've heard about intel's plans to use flash technology would improve any system performace other then boot time.
Welcome to slideware (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:2)
I feel exactly that way after most of the times I've spent reading Slashdot...
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:1)
why do i drain my life reading this junk.....?
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:1)
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:2)
The idea is that the OS predicts what pages of what files you're going to need based on it's analysis of your usage of your computer, and caches those on any faster-than-disk-but-not-RAM storage you may have, like a flash drive.
So if a game occasionaly needed to load something up and the prediction algorithm figured this out, then it'd be cached on the flash drive where it can be read faster than going to disk to get it.
It's a great idea, but
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:3, Interesting)
The idea is that the OS predicts what pages of what files you're going to need based on it's analysis of your usage of your computer, and caches those on any faster-than-disk-but-not-RAM storage you may have, like a flash drive.
Yes, I figured out he was talking about SuperFetch, but it's still drivel. SuperFetch is unproven and overhyped
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:3, Informative)
Games read data WAAAAY more than they write data.
and games manufacturer's are still going to want everything loaded off CD to attempt to prevent copying.
Darned near every game I have loads all the big data onto the hard drive for speed. A few games require the original CD be in the CD drive during gameplay. That type of scheme is generally unecessary for online games, where you're authenticated by other means, so the situation is generally improving.
The idea o
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:2)
Re:Article is drivel. (Score:1)
You mean I have one?
Good (Score:4, Funny)
Innovation => Faster/Better Chips
Faster/Better Chips => Faster/Better Comps
Faster/Better Comps => Giant Robots
And I for one want a giant robot.
Re:Good (Score:1)
Re:Good (Score:1)
Now a Giant Ninja Robot...that's something I'd be scared of.
pshaw! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Good (Score:1)
Re:Good (Score:1)
which leads to small [com.com] robots.
Irony! (Score:4, Interesting)
Performance improvements (Score:4, Funny)
Let me guess - they demonstrated how Intel's top end chips can handle 10 way conference calls with Skype, while AMD's only handle 5?
AMD - Time to wakeup (Score:4, Interesting)
Alas nothing of that sort is happening. Still resting on the glory of the on-die memory controller, the core is now 7 years old!
Every other chip company is doing interesting things.
1. Sun Niagra T1 is amazing
2. IBM Cell rocks!
3. Intel Itanic may have failed, but was no doubt interesting.
Well
Re:AMD - Time to wakeup (Score:4, Insightful)
Whatever criteria you are using to judge amd64 as the same core as k7 would also label merom a 686 core. And that is an old ass core.
Re:AMD - Time to wakeup (Score:2)
Will Apple make something better/cooler... (Score:1)
Turning off PC and going home for weekend (Score:1)
Ah...may be not that near future.
interesting quote (Score:5, Insightful)
But Intel presented their case strongly, suggesting they can match AMD, if not beat them.
Improvements? (Score:4, Interesting)
AMD (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh...they haven't?
AMD? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:AMD? (Score:2)
Some important things (AKA garbage article) (Score:5, Insightful)
"By a series of their products' massive performance improvements, Intel hit the ball back into AMD's court."
These are products that are not out yet. Benchmarks look good, but you are comparing a product on the shelves (that's been there a while) with one that is not OK.
And by the time they come out, AMD will likely have moved on to. This is a fast paced space, so 6 month time gaps matter when doing comparisons. Product matchups in the actual market are what matter.
AMD's M2 platform looks good. The performance / watt issue matters a lot, and it will be interesting to see how that develops. Both companies are clearly chasing the power/watt area, so should be a lot of fun. The notebook space especially which is currently dominated by intel will be fun.
"Intel showed how they have the higher performing solution." This should read intel MAY have a higher performing solution sometime in the future.
I'm tired of the big announcements of victory on non-shipping parts. ATI with crossfire (lunched twice). The hype around the P4 "netburst" architecture. The itanium hype of course. PS2 movie like visuals (still a nice platform, but please).
Fun to watch, great it's a great race.
Re:Some important things (AKA garbage article) (Score:1)
Re:Some important things (AKA garbage article) (Score:2)
That said, good points. Given that AMD is not bandwidth starved, I can see them going the multi-core route, and so far I like the multi-core solutions a bit better then Intels. Next step would obviously be a quad core. Be interesting to see when their next process m
The last time AMD coasted... (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyone who has been keeping tabs on AMD knows they are in the process of expanding their manufacturing capability/capacity.
I think AMD is playing the part of "lion in the weeds"......
Feeling like... (Score:1)
Just a note for AMD fanbois (Score:3, Insightful)
AMD may have had the upper hand on processor designs for the last few years, and even Intel is practically admitting that by switching their mainline core architecture to the Pentium M derivative (which is a PIII derivative). But Intel has had them beat in one area and probably will for a very long time: production capacity. Intel's fabs can crank out processors in a day that matches AMD's production in a year (exaggeration, but run with it). There is NO way that AMD could meet the demands of the business world in sheer scale of orders. If Intel closed up shop, computer CPUs would triple or quadrupal in price overnight due to scarcity. Fabs take YEARS to build, and can take even more years to full ramp up to full production while shaking out the process bugs. Intel has a LOT of experience with this due to the shear number of fabs that they own and operate.
Competition is good, for everyone. Give props where they are due though. Intel is turning around after making a very bad roadmap choice many years ago, and I think it will only benifit consumers in the long run. AMD had very good designs and will probably have some more good ones in the future. But don't pick on or the other exclusively and wish for the other to disappear. That would lead to a VERY bad situation for everyone, even you.
Re:Just a note for AMD fanbois (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus if Intel closed up shop, suddenly there'd be lots of fabs and extra supplies up for sale...
Nobody claims that Intel should not exist, but their
Re:Just a note for AMD fanbois (Score:1)
To parent: If Intel were to disappear tomorrow, I guess AMD could become as big as Intel was overnight! See? No supply problem.
Re:Just a note for AMD fanbois (Score:2)
Re:Just a note for AMD fanbois (Score:2)
Completely untrue, and I can't imagine how this complete bullshit got started.
Even with AMD taking more and more business away from Intel, it's still Intel that has been having real problems makin
excellent competition (Score:4, Informative)
1) Floating point performance wars - Before AMD came out with the K6 processor, Intel had the floating point crown and neither AMD nor Cyrix could compete. Although AMD and Cyrix had inexpensive intel-compatible processors, most people used their cpu's for low-end desktops.
2) That all changed when AMD released the K6 processor with an excellent floating point unit. Then the war became a Mhz slugfest between AMD and Intel in which Cyrix was marginalized. Intel reached the 1000Mhz mark first with the P3 but AMD wasn't far behind with the Athlon.
3) AMD changed their approach with the Athlon focusing on P3 crushing performance regardless of the actual clock speed. Intel kept the Mhz focus with the P4.
4) AMD released the hugely successful 64-bit Athlon that dominated the P4 even though the 64-bit Athlon operated at a much slower clock speed. Intel lost much market share in the desktop and server market to the new 64-bit Athlon and the new 64-bit Opteron processors.
5) Intel finally realized that the educated consumer didn't care about raw Mhz anymore, they switched to their own performance number rating scheme.
6) The latest oil crisis hits the world and consumers become more energy conscious. Many computer enthusiast websites point out how much energy Intel processors demand and how little AMD processors demand in comparison. Intel and AMD respond by making their processors more energy efficient and cooler running.
7) Dual-core processors are released from both companies trying to squeeze more performance out of their aging cores. The Intel processors can't scale as well with multiple cores due to the already high energy and cooling demands of their processor cores. AMD gains further ground in this area.
And that's where we are today. AMD has seriously damaged Intel's marketshare with some excellent products. Intel is feverishly working on new products to get that marketshare back. The benefit is that we will see very good products from the 2 companies over the next 12 to 24 months.
Re:excellent competition (Score:4, Informative)
That is not true at all. AMD reached 1GHz first by a couple of days. I hate the way these things get turned around. Next you'll try to tell me that Intel was first to dual core because they paper launched it two days before AMD, even though AMD was the first to have actual shipping parts...
Re:excellent competition (Score:2)
You could go out and BUY a 1GHz Athlon at retail within days.
Re:excellent competition (Score:2)
Re:excellent competition (Score:2)
The K6, K6-2 and K6-3 (mostly laptop) processors all really sucked badly in the FPU area, integer wise they were better than similarly clocked PII parts. The K7 (Athlon) was the first AMD processor to trounce Intel in the FPU arena. I
Re:excellent competition (Score:2)
K6 didn't have a terrible FP unit, but it was much worse than the equivalent P2 FPU. John Carmack is well known for stating as much at the time when glquake was making FP performance matter for the desktop consumer for more or less the fir
AMD is waiting (profiting) (Score:2, Interesting)
OTOH, Intel has been fattening (and has expanded into MANY oth
Intels near future (Score:1)
Only platitudes...no substance, no news (Score:2)
It's AMD baby! (Score:2)
I think what AMD has done deserves some form of brand loyalty. Intel was giving us trash and charging us through the ass for it. AMD forced Intel t
Inefficency. (Score:1)
Re:Inefficency. (Score:1)
woo hoo! (Score:2)
Re:It is just not enough... (Score:1)
Re:It is just not enough... (Score:1)
Re:Intel too expensive (Score:1)
PenGun
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