Linus on GPL3 In Forbes 316
musicon writes "In an interview via e-mail with Forbes, Torvalds discusses GPLv3, digital rights management and sharks with laser beams. From the article: 'I'm sure changes will be made [to GPLv3]. The fact that the FSF and I have some fundamentally different views of what the GPLv2 was all about makes me worry that we won't find a good agreement on the next version.'"
oh man! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:oh man! (Score:2, Insightful)
Only if you're one of the "evil communist world domination" GPL people :)
Us hippies prefer the peace-and-free-code-_kernel_module.
Re:oh man! (Score:2, Funny)
emerge sharks-with-laser-kernel
[wait]
Re:oh man! (Score:3, Funny)
Is Forbes going to let RMS tell his side? (Score:2, Informative)
Otherwise, it seems that Forbes is biased and acting in the interests of the Intel [slashdot.org], Sony [slashdot.org], Tivo [slashdot.org] and other business interests that want to hijack the hard work of open source developers in order to hancuff users and consumers [eff.org] with draconian treatcherous computing [gnu.org].
But then again, writing stories that are merely disguised propaganda for the business cartels is nothing new [onlamp.com] for Forbes.
tainted (Score:3, Funny)
sharks-with-lasers: module license 'mad scientist' taints kernel.
Nah. (Score:3, Funny)
I, for one... (Score:3, Funny)
Couple of things here... (Score:5, Interesting)
For the most part, I completely agree with Torvalds on his points--and I can't say I'm at all surprised to see Stallman and the FSF take this direction with version 3. Simply put: they are "zealots" for lack of a better term. For them, free software is less about open source and open development and more about a form of political agenda.
Now I'm not trying to bash Stallman or the FSF, they have made some wonderful contributions to the community. But let's call a spade a spade here and look at what GPLv3 is about: attempting to hide attempts to restrict developers under the guise of being an update to the world's most popular open source license. For all of the FSF's talk against bad copyright policy and software restrictions, this license introduces their own set as if to say, "we don't like their way; so you should definitely do it our way instead."
Too much politics and agenda and not enough open source development.
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:4, Interesting)
Did Linus get copyright assignments from every contributor? If not, then there's no way it can ever be really GPLv3, not legally.
Even if the contributors put the "or later" clause, that would still give end users the option for using Version 2.
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:3, Informative)
It's actually pretty simple. Portions of code licensed as "GPL v2 or later" can be incorporated into a GPL v2 program or a GPL v3 program. Portions of code licensed as GPL v2 only can only be incorporated with GPL v2 programs (or other licenses compatible with GPL v2, of which I believe there are precious few). GPL v3 is not strictly compatible with GPL v2, because it "adds additional restrictions." When you integrate GPL v2-or-later code into a GPL v3 program, the result is GPL v3.
This is sorta like h
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:3, Informative)
Unless you actually own the copyright you can't modify the license, so you can't take away the end user's right to choose GPLv2.
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
Well, first of if you're in good FSF spirit you'd choose "V3 or later"
Re: From my vantage point (Score:5, Insightful)
I see a GPL that prevents companies from using DRM (which wasn't around for v2) to get around GPL requirements. Basically those same requirements that we liked from v2.
Re: From my vantage point (Score:5, Insightful)
No, one of the fundamental GPL v3 changes is, by intentional design, antithetical to the continued proliferation of Linux in certain types of embedded devices, including TiVo-like devices, set top boxes, etc. Thus, there is and always will be a fundamental tension between RMS's notion of ideal freedom and the Linux community's goal of "Linux everywhere".
This isn't something that can be changed by a simple wording change. IMHO, GPL v3 is basically DOA as far as the kernel is concerned; you can pretty much be guaranteed that if Linus did try to push GPL v3 into the kernel, all the embedded Linux developers would fork, and that fork would result in some really ugly politics and a very dramatic decline in the number of Linux (v3) kernel developers.
Re: From my vantage point (Score:3, Insightful)
Just to throw my two cents in, that's exactly how I read it as well.
The thing is, if we really do get "Linux everywhere," enough people are going to want to start hacking that it'll create an economic incentive to cater to the hackers. Witness the Linux variant of the WRT54G.
IMHO, DRM will only die by collapsing under its own weight, and by heightening consumers' awareness of the issues. Fighting DRM head on by denying access to its underlying technologies (when, as Linus states, those technologies them
Re: From my vantage point (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem to suggest that Linus wants Linux everywhere also? From the article his opinion seems to be rather well rounded with no real interest other than making a great kernel.
I was rather disappointed with the following quote:
Re: From my vantage point (Score:3, Insightful)
No. You're missing the point of multiple licenses. If you distribute software to me that says GPL2 or later, it means that I can redistribute with any of GPL2, GPL3, or any future version. What I can't do is add "or later" to software that was licensed strictly GPL2.
It's the same as if you distributed software to me with a BSD or GPL clause. I can redistribute the so
Re: From my vantage point (Score:2, Interesting)
The GPL does not require the licensor to allow the licensee to run modified code on particular hardware. It is not there, ergo it is not a requirement.
Arguments that it was an unintentional or unenvisioned loophole are wholly unpersuasive. RMS was fully aware that compiled code could be burned onto a PROM and incorporated into a hardw
Re: From my vantage point (Score:2)
Sweet! Zealot B.S. for the 7,000th time (Score:5, Insightful)
If Linus is fine with TiVo's method of coopting the kernel and making it for all practical purposes unmodifiable, that's his business. But lots of other people have contributed code to free software and are not.
PS: this is how I understand it so far. My opinion is subject to revision
Re:Sweet! Zealot B.S. for the 7,000th time (Score:2)
Re:Sweet! Zealot B.S. for the 7,000th time (Score:3, Insightful)
Unrunnable? On the hardware they make, yes. These are specialized devices for specific purposes. But anybody can take a look at the code and use it for their own TIVO device.
I hate it when people are locked out of the devices that they use. I think it is of no business to anybody if I decide to alter things that are legally mine. But I do not think that this is a cause
Re:Sweet! Zealot B.S. for the 7,000th time (Score:4, Interesting)
There's been a similar thread discussing companies working around the GPL recently on my local LUG mailing list. In this case, discussion concerns a piece of hardware which uses GPL'd code but requires a hacked GCC to compile.
The theory is:
"The code says:
int do_something(void) {
#DO_SOMETHING
}
The compiler is hacked to insert the real code when it sees #DO_SOMETHING. The company which distributes the compiled source code doesn't distribute a compiler, so is not obliged to release the source code for the compiler itself, thus providing an end-run around the GPL."
How true this is, I don't know. It's speculation. Please don't mod me up just because you think this makes sense!
Essentially, GPLv3 adds a "Don't take the piss" clause. AIUI, the problem is putting this in legal parlance.
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
First off, please forgive my ignorance, but is it really *that* important for Linus to decide to move Linux from the GPLv2 to the GPLv3? Just because version 3 of the license becomes available does not automatically invalidate the version 2 license does it? Why is this such a hot button issue?
I'm sure his mailbox is filled with GPLv3 questions, and of course he can't just ignore GPLv3 since I'm sure there will be attempts to add code to the kernel with this license. Seems that he is saying that GPLv3 code w
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:5, Insightful)
Dude, copyright and patents are a political agenda by identity.
KFG
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2, Insightful)
But is that what a software license about? Or rather; should be about? In my eyes (and apparently in Linus' eyes as well) its about fostering open development because its a better way to do things, not pursuing an agenda.
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
The Free Software People want licenses that make the source available for social/political reasons, because they believe that the general purpose computer is too important a tool to allow anyone to control it.
The Open Source People want licenses that make the source available for practical reasons, because they believe that doing so makes for better software.
These are two seperate groups, and while their needs and aims often coincide, they don't always. Linus is an open source
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
RMS can be accused of many things, but rarely attempting to hide things. He's
always been active about describing his reasons.
The GPL is about politics. It always has been. So has GNU. This is what it is
for. FSF is attempting to change the way that an industry worth billions behaves.
How can this not be about politics?
Linus' postion is also about poltics, but a different sort of politics.
It's entirely reasonable to argue that the FSF position has the wrong so
Re:They didn't say you have to use GPLv3! (Score:4, Insightful)
RMS and the FSF aren't saying saying "All your old GPLv2's are invalid and now you must upgrade to our new GPLv3!!!"
They are giving developers the options to restrict what others from restricting the next guy down the line from doing something with their work.
You don't have to use GPLv3 if you don't want to.
If someone else releases their work with a GPLv3 license and it bothers you...
Then tough. The original author has the right to release it under any license he wants be it BSD, closed source, or GPL.
If Linus doesn't want to use GLPv3 then it is his right. He can keep v2 forever. The GPL license doesn't belong to RMS. He just made up the wording of the contract that others can use to release software with.
No one is being forced to anything they don't want to...
Well other than the people who are being restricted from adding DRM and various freedom restricting to other people's work released in GPLv3.
Well if you really want that DRM so bad... Then make your own program from scratch. Don't use someone elses open source code whose express wish is to not have his work used in ways he did not mean it to.
GPLv3 gives the original author this ability.
Zealotry can be good (Score:5, Insightful)
Simply put: they are "zealots" for lack of a better term. For them, free software is less about open source and open development and more about a form of political agenda.
Stallman repeatedly states that software freedom is his goal, and not its widespread adoption by "practical minded" corporations. He has nothing against corporations if they do not interfere with his primary goal. That make's him a zealot, I guess. I call it clear thinking. Time [gnu.org] and [gnu.org] again [newsforge.com] he has been proven correct in the face of criticism.
Re:Zealotry can be good (Score:3, Insightful)
He is a zealot, because he is willing to use coercion to promote his ideology. He has demonstrated this by calling for a software tax to fund Free Software, and has supported government regulations requiring the use of Free Software.
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:3, Insightful)
RMS did not change his views on developping software to empower users. The world of Open Source Software did and is in great danger of falling in the same trap again. This time DRM/DMCA and patents are the trap set by the corporations to gain control of OtherPeople IP (TM).
RMS does not force you to abide by his rules. You can use whatever license you want and
GPL v3 makes compliance verifiable (Score:5, Informative)
Now has Blue Hat complied with GPL v.2? No one outside Blue Hat can know. The only way to verify that some source corresponds to the binary you're running is to compile it and run the result. If you can't do that without a key, and Blue Hat won't give you a suitable key, they could violate GPL with impunity.
It doesn't require that BH give up their ultimate private key, just one sufficient to sign source. This is all that GPL 3 requires in regard to DRM and keys.
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
Well, from TFA, Mr Torvalds seems to have disagreements with FSF about what GPL2 really means. If that's the case, the Linux kernel needs to move to something else, which both Mr Torvalds and the people who own the
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
The Tivo comment you make is surely a bit of a Troll? Sure, they're just trying to make a buck, and nothing wrong with that, but making a buc
Re:Couple of things here... (Score:2)
Somewhat Dupe ... (Score:5, Informative)
Torvalds Explains Dislike For GPLv3 [slashdot.org]
Linus Says No GPLv3 for the Linux Kernel [slashdot.org]
Re:Somewhat Dupe ... (Score:2, Insightful)
The GPL v3 is aimed at ensuring that you always have the right to modify a GPL v3 program and still have it work as it did. That's all. It's rather unfortunate that lots of people hear the term "DRM" and immediately think of music/video piracy, because DRM is really about the control of applications, and preventing you from modifying them.
You see, one of the main aims of the GPL v3 is to stop Trusted Computing from being used *against* the owner of a machine. With the previous version of the GPL, it's qui
Re:Somewhat Dupe ... (Score:2)
This Forbes interview will make business-types who know nothing about software, but recognize Linus's name and think him a genius think that the GPLv3 is bad news, and they won't read any RMS rant on some random blog that gives the other side of the argument.
Most popular OSS? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not sure....would maybe Firefox have more overall users? Seems that it's on 80-90% of Linux boxes, plus an ever growing number of Windows machines and other OS's as well.
I was thinking gcc. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I was thinking gcc. (Score:2)
I'm sure meant "graphical webbrowser" ;-) The default install of OpenBSD has lynx installed, though I don't use it often, it's very handy when you need some kind of web browser, like reading docs that is in html format.
Yeh, I thought so too but (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Yeh, I thought so too but (Score:2)
You should.
Re:I was thinking gcc. (Score:2)
"popular" is a measure of how many people would be using it, not how many installations. I think firefox is used directly by more people than linux, unless you count the fact that google uses linux and more people use google than they do firefox. So, yes Linux does win the popularity contest, just the people voting don't know it.
Re:I was thinking gcc. (Score:2)
Re:Most popular OSS? (Score:2)
The article was written by a poor journalist. The theme of the article hovers around GPL3 -- so I believe its context was meant in that of "Most popular GPL program"
Firefox is not released under the GPL.
I would be willing to bet that xfree/xorg are more popular though, being on Solaris, BSD, Linux and more boxes. GCC is also another p
Re:Most popular OSS? (Score:2)
Redhat alone sold 215,000 sold 215,000 Linux licenses [itjungle.com] in just the 2nd quarter of 2005.
Think outside of your tiny world of single-pc households and do the math. There are a lot more Linux installations than there are Firefox installations.
community split (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think it's a matter of right and wrong, but a battle of ideas between purist "ivory tower" types and the real-world that has legitimate needs for OSS and the business community to work together. Like I said before, if you think that businesses like IBM have purely altruistic motives for supporting Linux and OSS then you are sadly, sadly mistaken. Businesses have a responsibility to their shareholders to make money. Linux/OSS is a means to an end. But in the meantime, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Simple solution (Score:2)
Re:community split (Score:2)
Fallen hero or lone wolf? (Score:4, Interesting)
Call me a fanatic, but open source isn't worth crap if it can't be redistributed. This is _THE_ principle of open source, that anyone can make AND RUN their own version. There are business-ready licenses out there, but the GPL was made to perpetuate the programmers' and users' freedom.
I think Linus needs a reality check. Perhaps a few months of working for Microsoft will make him realize his mistakes. There ARE evil people, evil corporations trying to take over the world, just look at the patent business.
I'm kinda disappointed after reading this, I always had seen Linus as a hero, and thought he was as enthusiastic about open source as many of us were. Sad to see he's just yet another programmer who went corporate, like Steve Jobs. He just happened to cooperate with the open source movement.
Oh well. We should be thankful he's still cooperating, and consider him an ally rather than a leader.
Re:Fallen hero or lone wolf? (Score:2)
BSD's seem to be doing just fine.
Commercial vs. Proprietary (Score:5, Insightful)
The FSF folks would be ecstatic to have busnesses actually embrace the open source model, be commercial, and sell lots and lots of support, installation, and maintenance for software that is still modifiable by the end customer.
People keep trying to paint the FSF folks as anti-commercial, or anti-business. They are most assuredly not. They are trying to educate companies and the public about a better way to do software, whether as a business or not.
And neither companies nor people should adopt FSF principals out of altruism. They should adopt them because they realize that once customers understand what the free software rights really do for them, they will begin to demand them by not doing business with companies that don't grant them. Just as you wouldn't buy a car from a dealer if you could only ever get it fixed at that dealership (for whatever rates they choose to charge), you will stop buying software that can only be modified by that software company. It doesn't mean you won't go to the dealer for some or all repairs, it just means you don't want to be forced to.
Of course, pushing the car analogy, this only really happens when you become aware of local car repair companies. And this is where companies like IBM can really help -- by offering the "Jiffy Lube" of free software -- a national, well known chain of software maintenance, configuration, and repair for open source.
Re:Commercial vs. Proprietary (Score:2)
GNU/Linux kernel? (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder if Linus even has the real authority to unilaterly switch to an alternative license. I don't think so. By his own admission he is not a deep thinker about the philosophical (he says polical) part of the job. Many of his colleagues are. Any change would have to be accepted by the core kernel developers. If not a fork is all but inevitable (GNU/Linux anyone?). My guess is he will talk like this from time to time but will be under pressure to maintain the status quo.
Re:GNU/Linux kernel? (Score:2)
Re:GNU/Linux kernel? (Score:2)
Lets say he sues distributor C. C argues he has done nothing outside GPL 2. As far as the additional encumbrance clause C may argue that B lacks standing over the entire kernel and the license applies to the whole. Who is he going to sue where he has enough
Re:GNU/Linux kernel? (Score:2)
Torvalds should stick to technical matters. (Score:4, Insightful)
He doesn't. The Linux kernel hasn't been under his exclusive copyright for most of its existence. Not even his fork is under his copyright alone because he doesn't collect copyright assignments from contributors to his fork. This seems to me to be right in line with the general lack of foresight and considerable confusion about software freedom I've come to associate with him (see his use of Bitkeeper and his objection to Andrew Tridgell's work on a Bitkeeper repo pulling program for other examples).
All the more reason why Forbes should have interviewed people who are deep thinkers about issues relevant to the GPL: RMS, Eben Moglen, or someone from the FSF who could have spoken with more insight and a clear understanding of what the license is meant to achieve. Interviewing Torvalds about licensing is usually fruitless because he gets another chance to demonstrate how much he doesn't understand the goals of the license and how much he doesn't agree with what he doesn't understand.
He claims that use of GPL-covered programs is restricted by the first draft of GPLv3: "You cannot install it on your hardware (laser-equipped shark or otherwise) without also making sure that others can install another version.". That is a good thing because that's critical to software freedom. His criticism is confusing: he professes to want to be allowed to fix things, yet he criticizes along the lines of preventing people from stopping users to be able to fix things. He also doesn't seem to understand that others might want to tinker things he doesn't want to tinker with (a dishwasher or a DVR). Heaven forbid anyone wants to change the length of a wash, rinse, or dry cycle or a DVR that only deletes recorded programs when the user says to do so.
He views the GPLv2 as a contract: "However, I don't think that's part of my GPLv2 contract." and Eben Moglen made it quite clear in his detailed discussion of GPLv3 that the GPL has not been and will not be a contract. There's even a section in the draft GPLv3 called "Not a Contract". I'd rather take Moglen's legal advice than Torvalds', particularly when it comes to interpreting the GPL.
It's also hard to take Torvalds' complaints seriously because he refuses to become a part of the year-long revision process, even by submitting comments to the GPLv3 FSF site [fsf.org].
GNU/Linux isn't a fork, it's the GNU operating system featuring the Linux kernel. This is distinct from the GNU operating system featuring a kernel from one of the BSD systems, or the official GNU operating system which runs with the HURD.
Crap, another question ...I have a lot to learn (Score:5, Informative)
If I understand it right, and I prolly don't, you can install any modified version whatsoever on your sharks. Your obligations re: making keys available etc. do not kick in until you distribute the modified version. i.e. if you're a shark salesman rather than a mad scientist.
Is that right?
MOD PARENT UP (Score:3, Insightful)
1. See the code.
2. Modify the code.
3. Run the modified code.
Private shark zoos are not subject to any restriction. Shark salesmen, however, would be required to make the source available
Ignore him. (Score:4, Insightful)
In any case, does it really matter if he redistributes his kernel under GPL2 or 3? It's not like it's the end of the world or anything. I think this is plainly media hype.
Re:Ignore him. (Score:2)
Re:Ignore him. (Score:2)
Of course he is. It may have been a while but he wrote the initial code and a lot of what came after. And he reads code at a level that makes most of us blush.
Just because you don't write as much code as you used to doesn't mean your not a programmer anymore. Besides, what's he doing in his free time that we don't necessarily know about?
Re:Ignore him. (Score:3, Insightful)
People downloaded Linux because it was a free unix that they didn't have to put down $$$$ for a unix worksation.
The GPL just happened to be the license that it was under. FreeBSD probably would have taken over if it were not for the AT&T lawsuit. INfact I heard of BSDI and FreeBSD long before Linux back when I wanted a heavy duty BBS system in 1993. I heard of linux several years later.
Personally the license had noting to do wiht it and possix and BSD userland and kernels have been around for alo
Re:Ignore him. (Score:2)
The GPL is *NOT* an EULA! It's a DISTRIBUTION LICENSE!
If Linus had released his kernel under a proprietary non-free license, nobody would've ever heard of it. I'm not saying that linux is inferior to the GPL, but that the GPL contributed A LOT to its success.
Re:Ignore him. (Score:2)
You had a valid point unitl you said that (IMHO) opinion.
The FSF/GNU project has done a hell of a lot more [fsf.org] then just write a distribution license.
In fact I would go so far to say that the pre 1.0 version of the Linux kernel would have had an interest level of 0 attached to if it were not for the widely availbale, free tools that people used to impro
Re:Ignore him. (Score:2)
What OSS licenses besides the GPL would have been prohibitive to it having become as popular as it has become?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 1991 I believe the only software license around that involved community contribution back into the codebase was the GPL. Most "OSS" licenses at the time were academic or between companies for development purposes. OSS was quoted because the term wasn't coined until 1998.
This just in GPLv4 = Sea bass (Score:5, Funny)
I agree with RMS on patents but disagree on DRM (Score:5, Interesting)
Looking at those disconcerting trends, I very much support the GPL v3's approach to software patents. But when it comes to DRM, I think the FSF goes too far and addresses an issue for philosophical reasons that isn't worth it. DRM is a lot more legitimate per se than software patents are. Categorically opposing DRM may be perceived as downright anti-commercial by a number of people, and it's a move that I fear will only hurt the FSF and the GPL without changing anything about the fact that DRM is here to stay.
Re:I agree with RMS on patents but disagree on DRM (Score:2)
Fact? Why don't we give the FSF the chance to fight the good fight and see how it turns out? Do any of us really want to see a corporate dominated DRM world? The FSF already has a good track record (e.g. GCC, Perl, and Linux all use the GPL) so lets not write them off yet.
Re:I agree with RMS on patents but disagree on DRM (Score:2)
Re:I agree with RMS on patents but disagree on DRM (Score:2)
Re:I agree with RMS on patents but disagree on DRM (Score:3, Insightful)
Since when exactly has the FSF been concerned about be perceived as anti-commercial? Its been like 20 some years of them fighting "what's good for business".
GPL=Yes, DRM=Maybe, Govt=No (Score:2)
I have confidence that GPL3 would protect me from that, I'm not so sure about GPL2. My world really does have room for DRM and the GPL, just not DRM backed
Re:I agree with RMS on patents but disagree on DRM (Score:2)
Firstly, it can be used to "protect" copyrighted content - films, music, etc. I would agree that this could be a legitimate use for DRM, because it is "protecting" something which the people who created the content in question want protecting (arguments about who really "owns" the content notwithstanding).
But secondly, it can also be used to ensure that program code cannot be run on particular hardware unless it has been properly signed (or wh
Re:I agree with RMS... (Score:3, Insightful)
Let me rephrase your two categories, while trying to preserve the essential meaning.
First, DRM can be used to help stop people from breaking the law, e.g. by making copies beyond what is permitted by fair use.
Second, DRM can be used to restrict users from exercising rights that otherwise would be theirs by law, such as making fair use copies of copyrighted material or running a copy of a program that they have purchased.
Unfortunately, a
From the article... (Score:2, Interesting)
Are you participating in the GPLv3 process?
No, I'm not actively involved. And it's not so much because I couldn't be, it's more because I just can't find it in me to care too deeply. I'm the kind of person who hates office politics. I'm pretty happy with the GPLv2, and I just don't have the motivation or inclination to start talking to lawyers. I'm a programmer. I worry about kernel bugs.
GPLv3 is not anti DRM. (Score:4, Insightful)
I just find Linus too trusting of business. You would think he would have learned his lesson with BitKeeper but in the end I think he blames Andrew Tridgell instead of BitMover. Even RMS may be too distrusting of business, but isn't it better to be safer than sorry?
Re:GPLv3 is not anti DRM. (Score:2)
*sigh*
Re:GPLv3 is not anti DRM. (Score:2)
DRM is here to stay and EFI is being pushed for the sole purpose to prevent windows piracy. Our own computers will need to interact with drm TCPA chips and use EFI to trust all our components in our computers. WIth GPL3 its impossible to port linux to the pc anymore because it needs to use it in order to boot.
Bitkeeper anyone? (Score:4, Insightful)
But what is this thing that
Mr. T's thoughts on the GPL (Score:5, Funny)
On the wrong side of the battle (Score:5, Interesting)
Stallman may be right morally, but so was John The Baptist; and look at what happened to him.
Re:On the wrong side of the battle (Score:2)
That's all Stallman wants, too, and all I've got to say is, more power to him. I would much rather live in a world without DRM than one with.
Re:On the wrong side of the battle (Score:2)
2)DRM, like warrentless survellience (sp?) is an inevitable part of modern life; this isn't going to change so you may as well learn how to cope.
Linus RMS (Score:4, Insightful)
RMS "Pragmatically speaking, thinking about greater long-term goals will strengthen your will to resist this pressure. If you focus your mind on the freedom and community that you can build by staying firm, you will find the strength to do it. ``Stand for something, or you will fall for nothing.''
Pretty much sums it up. I'm sure RMS doesn't like talking to lawyers either, he just has Beliefs and convictions that force him to. (No offense Mr MOGLEN)
I will adopt GPL v3 as soon as finalized. I have much more faith in the "Ramblings" of RMS than the casual "Who Cares" of Linus. Great as the kernel might be. Without the Convictions of Stallman and GPLv2, Most of us would still be Running Proprietary OS's and paying for several different Compilers and toolsuites and Graphical toolkits, ad infinitum. We have those choices now because Stallman sat down with a few lawyers despite his distaste for authority. There is something to be said about beating the big guys with their own stick, Software Licenses
Note to Article Author: I believe GCC is a little more popular (at least in terms of users) than Linux or Firefox. And that was written by?
Ramble on RMS
Flip Flopper? (Score:2)
Re:Flip Flopper? (Score:2)
Only if you see Bush in every shadow. Or a Bush hater in every shadow
Being able to change your mind has always been a part of being a reasonable person.
Has Linus misread the DRM provisions in GPL3? (Score:3, Informative)
I watched some of the explanations on GPL3 given by RMS and Moglen here [slashdot.org], and they seemed fairly adamant about the fact that GPL3 did not forbid the use of DRM-ish encryption/authentication in code that falls under it, just that any keys necesary for running it need to be given to the user.
Same deal for Trusted Computing-esque machines; it's perfectly fine to make a machine that uses keys to restrict usage of the machine maker's code that falls under GPL3, as long as they give the keys to the end-user. It's even fine to make a seperate key for each and every machine, only give it's unique key to one single end user tied to his or her machine. Just as long as the end-user gets those keys: Or as the GPL3 licence puts it: Reading through the DRM clause it mentions "no permission is given to distribute covered works that illegally invade users' privacy" which is already "illegal", so you wouldn't be allowed to do it anyway, and "[no permission is given] for modes of distribution that deny users that run covered works the full exercise of the legal rights granted by this License" which you wouldn't be allowed to do anyway, without breaking the licence.
Or is this dispute about some other part of the new licence?
Gross out (Score:4, Insightful)
Mr Torvalds is just one guy, an engineer with an optimistic, congenial outlook on life, not a professinal advocate or evangelist with a foundation or six behind him full of law professors. Have Lessig and Moglen condemned some of the personal criticism levelled at Torvalds or would that be too much like hard work?
Yet as a hard-working regular guy Torvalds has a better grasp of daily realities than many of his critics. Tightening up on software patents is a good idea, but rejecting DRM as the devil's work is a poor idea, perhaps simply immature. As the underdog in this affair he gets my support every time. If a better, revised GPLv3 emerges, one that two people or more can actually understand and agree upon, which is more than can be said for the present draft, then Torvalds will deserve our gratitude for sticking up for what he believes despite the hyena-like behaviour of some in the open source world.
Re:Gross out (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately, you'll get hyena-like behavior in any group with more than a few people. While I don't support it, I also recognize that anyone in Torvalds's position (being known by millions of people) is going to have his/her detractors, occasionally vocal and caustic.
There are actually quite a few peop
Re:A Brief Question of Fact re: "Most Popular" (Score:2)
Re:See the crusaders march (Score:2, Interesting)
GPL kicks in only when you want to *publish*. If you want to publish a hybrid of your code and GPL code, like the Tivo kernel, you ha
Re:See the crusaders march (Score:5, Insightful)
Why not? It's the data and binaries in the payroll system that need to be secure, not the source code.