Paying Subscriptions for MMOs with In-Game Ads? 246
CokoBWare asks: "Next Generation is reporting that NC Soft, makers of the beloved City of Heroes, Guild Wars, and other MMOs have announced that they will be incorporating in-game advertising for their MMO Auto Assault, using an ad service from Massive Inc. NC Soft has made no indication that they intend to change their subscription model in light of this new announcement. I wanted to know how other people would feel paying $50US for a game, plus approximately $15/month in subscription fees, and in addition be served with in-game advertising as well? Is this a good trend for subscription-based MMO games of the future? Should gamers pay for the privilege of having to be subjected to in-game advertising on a monthly basis?"
It's quite simple: (Score:5, Insightful)
If I'm getting the service for free, bring on the ads.
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:5, Interesting)
If I'm paying the market price for a MMO subscription (presently, $15/month or so) not a single advertisement had better be integrated as a part of the UI/HUD, unless I can easily and permanently disable it. Integration of ads in the UI might be acceptable as long as you're paying less than what an adless MMO of comparable quality costs, and if you're given the option to pay a bit more to get rid of the ads.
And though I say that might be acceptable, it doesn't mean I want to see it happen. I worry about the old slippery slope. Today you can easily fork over $80/month to your cable company and the majority of stations will still be displaying pure advertising 15% of the time or so. Gaming companies may figure that if people will accept this in television, they will accept it in games. This is obviously not the direction that I'd like to see another medium headed in.
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:5, Funny)
If a car game only features GM automobiles as a part of their product placement contract, it might not work out to be as immersive an enviornment as compared to if they populated the game entirely with made-up autos (or those patterned after a variety of different makes of car).
That's suck in something like GTA - you jack a car and it breaks down 3 blocks later.
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2)
Sure, in a game like GTA, I expect restaurants with sily names or something, but in this case, I think it's actually pretty cool.
Well what do the developers say? (Score:2)
Of particular interest:
"One thing I always felt was missing from AA was the remnants of modern real world culture, which if you take a look around any urban center, is oversaturated with ads, billboards, posters, etc. It's a fact of the landscape. For example, why wouldn't you find an old rusted out Coke can in this world?"
"We get total artistic control over which ads go into the game so nothing wo
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:4, Insightful)
Given that you got "+5 insightfull" hints that there is at least a certain group of us, I would say "market", that is willing to pay for advertisement-free content. Yes, I am one of those. But I at least recognize that our 'freedom-means-you-are-allowed-to-make -money-no-matter-what' attitude isn't as grandiose as is advertised by the overlords.
Advertisement = $$. This simply equates to the fact that we will have to shell out extra $$ to allow the games to be how we want them to be. So be it.
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Do you have cable TV? (Score:2)
With an online game, what you pay goes to the game developer, as does the advertising revenue. Now it may be that the ad revenue helps to keep subscription costs down, but in that case, they'd better be lower (or the package better) than competing services.
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2)
You are 100% wrong.
AA is set in a post-apocalyptic future, any modern advertisement would be completely out of place.
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2)
All you have to do is insert the IP of the adservers in your host file and the screen will not show ads.
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2)
Re:It's quite simple: (Score:2, Interesting)
Actually, the only MMORPG I play has no subscription either - Guild Wars.
It is the only kind I can afford and the only kind I'm willing to play.
If you're charging me for the privilege of viewing ads, sod off; I get quite pissed off just when I go to the cinema, pay the ticket and am forced to sit through almost half an hour of commercials. (OK, so maybe it just feels that long.)
Anyway, a game that is serving me ads should damn well be totally free of charge just b
I knew it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I knew it... (Score:2)
Couldn't have said it better.
Re:I knew it... (Score:3, Insightful)
Like Cable TV (Score:2)
Maybe this can go another way though, and people will abandon the games that want to double-dip. We can only hope.
Re:Like Cable TV (Score:3, Insightful)
parent is incorrect (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Like Cable TV (Score:3, Insightful)
In-Game Ads... No problem... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In-Game Ads... No problem... (Score:2)
Re:In-Game Ads... No problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless the game doesn't let you. For those that haven't seen it yet, Rainbow six:Lockdown on the PC had in game advertisements. Actually it only had one, which was repeated over and over and over again. It was for a movie, The Hills Have Eyes which I will never see, partly due to the ad, also partly due to the movie looking like it is going to suck.
While just about everything else in the game took damage, or at least spawned bullet holes when I shot them, the ads did not. No matter what you did to the posters, the looked good as new. This was tested quite often since the ad had a picture of the main actress on it, which was often mistaken for a taget for a second, and shot. In the end, I'm looking to find a way to replace the image with something a bit more interesting, say porn, before the next LAN (which is how I play the R6 games).
This was bad enough in a game I just paid $50 for, getting that along with the StarForce crap was a real slap in the face. But, the idea of paying for a game subscription and then getting ads as well, just seems like too much to me. Yes, I realize that I'm getting shafted in the same way by the cable company; and that I will probably end up with no choice when it comes to my games; I still don't have to like it.
Re:In-Game Ads... No problem... (Score:2)
Note: I now claim ownership of the above idea, barring a previous patent in existence that predates
Well Life is Tuff (Score:5, Insightful)
At least with in game ads they aren't stopping you from playing. You can just walk right past them. And if this helps the companies put out better games cause they can afford to spend more time in devel becaues they are making X more per month per person - well great. (And Frankly, I'd rather see adverts than pay more than 15$ a month per MMOG)
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:5, Insightful)
It won't lead to better games, I can almost guarantee that much. And as far as being able to walk past them, yeah, that's true. But the way I look at it is that it's another place they've taken from us. Another form of entertainment that isn't ours anymore. Another form of advertising that they can use to force brand names on you. People never seem to mind, they always say "well advertising is everywhere else, why not?" And my question is, why is it everywhere else? Why do we tolerate things like the "Tostitos Fiesta Bowl" when the taxpayers paid for the stadium and the fans paid for tickets? We shouldn't. When I hear complacent comments like this one it just makes me sad and it reminds me of a Matthew Good Band song called "advertising on police cars."
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:2)
HEHE EA took that away a long time ago.. MMORGS yours?? HA..
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:2)
Ads Are Good For You! (Score:2)
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:5, Interesting)
However, what would be interesting would be top player endorsements. Imagine if you were the "best" (whatever that might mean in the context of the game) in a game, and your play was subsidized by wearing logos or having logos on your vehicle. A Nascar MMORPG?
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:2)
As for the nascar MMORPG - its called Auto Assult - just keep driving to the left and you have the NASCAR minigame.
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:2)
TV is free. Just plug in you TV to a power source and watch free broadcasts. What? You want more channels and guarenteed quality reception? Well, you are in luck, for $50/mo we can hook you up.
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:2)
It _could_ affect gameplay (Score:3, Funny)
*Players freeze*
"AND NOW, a message from our sponsor. Tired of a small dick? Get Viagra NOW!........ back to fight in 3... 2
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:2)
Apples and oranges. You're paying for access to content, not the content itself. Those providing the content have to, you know, make money. So they do it with subscriptions, like HBO, or they're an organization that can't get enough subscribers to def
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:3, Insightful)
Whoever puts in the money, gets to decide the content.
While it may start with "just an advert here please", it could turn into "Well, I don't agree with that, lets drop it". Could even go as far as "A jail? No! How silly.. We'll goto a coke factory instead! It'll be a EVIL NAME HERE strong hold instead".
Re:Well Life is Tuff (Score:2)
I don't have a TV, not simply because 95% of the content is junk, but because of all the endless, irritating, noisy, intruding advertising which tries to sell me as particularly stupid. ("No worries, I use that time to get a beer or go to the loo!" - rubbish).
Same reason: no radio.
Driver 3 had not only poor graphics and poor gameplay, but advertising in it. When I first saw it, I couldn't believe it. Then I exited, deleted the game, and gave the original away.
I spend a fair amount of time with
Missed a point.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Missed a point.. (Score:3, Insightful)
"have announced that they will be incorporating in-game advertising for their MMO Auto Assault"
The article is about advertising appearing in Auto Assault NOT Guild Wars, City of Heroes, Lineage or any other NCSoft game.
Auto Assault was pre-sold as an MMO with expected normal monthly MMO pricing. Now as to whether the monthly subscription will be for a game with advertising or if some other model is in the works, we don't know at this time.
Re:Missed a point.. (Score:2)
Probably unavoidable really ... (Score:2, Insightful)
There are loads of examples of things the user pays for that have advertising: TV, magazines, movie theatres, movies themselves, etc. You almost can't escape it nowadays.
Now, ask me if I think paying $15/mo for an on-line game makes any sense and I'll tell you NO -- but I'm not the entire gaming market. =)
Re:Probably unavoidable really ... (Score:2)
You misunderstand me. I'm not in favour of being advertised to either. I fast forward through commercials like everyone else does, and most major consumer brands don't impress me all that much. In general, I'm pretty hostile to being advertised to.
I'm just pointing out that it's prob
cost per hour of entertainment (Score:5, Insightful)
Compared to a Movie, I paid $8.25 to see Underworld 2. Run time 106 minutes, but you could theoretical count the travel time and previews as "entertainment" so let's call it a 3 hour event. That puts the cost at $2.75/hour.
For me, $15 is a drop in the bucket. I would prefer to not have adds (specifically since I play high fantasy games usually) but in some games (the NFS series for instance) Ads can be put in the game seamlessly in a way that does not break immersion.
-Rick
Re:cost per hour of entertainment (Score:2)
Re:cost per hour of entertainment (Score:2)
-Rick
Predictions (Score:5, Insightful)
Prediction: If the game is good, same people will buy it and play it, complaining bitterly the whole time. Until and unless the advertisments get so intrusive that they actually interfere with gameplay, people will put up with them to get their gaming fix.
The problem is (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok so people who need their MMORPG fix can (and do) go there, you game has to offer something different or better, if you don't, they'll ignore you for the most part. Thus if you decide that a fee plus intrusive ads is the way to go, gamers will tell you to fuck off, they have something better already.
The reason I'm very anti in-game ads is because I know how stupid advertisers are when it comes to computers. They seem to think that ads need to be extremely in your face, noisy, and interactive. If they aren't getting your full attention for an extended period with lots of click throughs, well they must be failing. I mean shit, look at the previlance of not just popups, but take-over-your-browser types of Flash ads. The web is a non-linerar medium and the closest thing would be a newspaper, where you can skip around as you want, yet they insist that's not good enough, their ads have to be in your face.
See I could go for a game with well integrated ads, I even think they could enhance the experience. For example you walk by a TV and instead of displaying some 3 screen loop with babble sounding audio, it has downloaded some new ads and plays them. Would feel nice and realistic, and integrate in to your experience well.
However that's not how it will go, I'm afraid. The advertisers would bitch since people could just ignore the ads and look at other things (I'll never understand why that's not a problem with real billboards and such, just ocmptuer ads). What they'll want is forced ads on loading screens. So you zone in to a place and it starts loading, but instead of a loading screen you get an ad that talks to you, wants you to click thigns, etc. You computer finishes all it's work in 5 seconds but you spend 20 more being bombarded by an ad before you can play.
Thanks, but no.
Re:Predictions (Score:5, Insightful)
Anything that enters the mainstream will have advertisements because if there's a way for someone to legally make a dime, it is going to happen, particularly when it feeds off the least common denominator of principle in the population as a whole.
I don't watch television, I don't listen to radio, and I don't play games with ads in them. I personally know 0 other people like that. I've never even met anyone else like that. Sure you meet people that are angry about invasive advertising, but when it comes down to it, there's something in the media that they just need so bad they cannot really turn it off.
The general reaction when I mention this and indicate that a big reason is that I get really pissed when I am interested in something and some fucker comes along and laces that something with every act of manipulation that they can to make me spend money...the general reaction is disbelief and comments about my dubious sanity.
Given that, advertising is inevitable. Just look at it this way. If every single major game producer decides to go in-game advertising, you know without a doubt that gamers will continue to pay to play. Without a doubt. It's a bit like price fixing. Then eventually, the economy will adjust so that a successful game company pretty much needs (read: publishers won't back a game with a lower advertisement-free profit margin) the additional in-game advertising revenue, and there you go.
There's no turning back, and huge economic pressure will arise to starve out competitors that would offer a liberated experience, but cannot do so because the majority of consumers are tolerant and costs are adjusted to require revenue generated by the tolerance of advertising and the profitability of the resulting impulse purchases that occur.
Re:Predictions (Score:3, Insightful)
I think most people would prefer a compromise, to giving things up completely. I know I do.
So, I watch TV, but thanks to my HTPC, I don't watch the ads. I listen to radio, but thanks to XM, I don't listen to ads. And when Planetside added in-game advertising, I blocked Massive's ad servers.
But I've got the same attitude behind it all: If you have a medium where
Re:Predictions (Score:2)
Here is a suggestion for everyone who is sick to death of ads. Quit buying the crap being advertised! Otherwise shut up about it.
How do you even know there will be a fee? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seeing how they *already* have a very popular MMORPG without a monthly fee (Guild Wars), I don't think it is a stretch to think this one won't either.
Re:How do you even know there will be a fee? (Score:3, Informative)
Seeing as they *already* have multiple MMOs which require a monthly fee (City of Heroes/Villains, Lineage II)and have stated in their Auto Assault faq that the game will have monthly fees [autoassault.com], I think it's unlikely that the game will use the Guild Wars model.
What remains to be seen is if they will do the advertising vs paid model like Anarchy Online or if all pa
Better Games? (Score:2, Interesting)
If the game is good people will accept it. (Score:4, Insightful)
People pay $5000US for a hi-def set, plus approximately $80/month for HiDef satellite and/or cable service, and are served ads without complaint.
Re:If the game is good people will accept it. (Score:2)
That does not mean they are making a good choice.
These are the same people that are going to be eating dog food and living on the street in a box after they retire.
If you want to do something with your money, put it in an IRA and go for a jog instead of sitting on the couch waiting for the heart attack.
Re:If the game is good people will accept it. (Score:2)
Most people I know loath advertisements. I mute commercials whenever I can and switch channels as soon as they pop. One of the main reasons Tivo gained in popularity was to avoid advertisements. One of Mozilla's main selling points is a popup blocker and its user base is growing rapidly. I think most americans and most people around the world dislike advertisem
Re:If the game is good people will accept it. (Score:2)
This alone will separate quality from crap (Score:3, Insightful)
No publisher with any sort of standards would allow the game setting to be destroyed this way. I think we'll see the games with low subscribership succumb to this trend, and lose even more players as a result. Its one thing for Anarchy Online, City of Heroes or a game with a futuristic setting to use in-game ads (since ads exist within those worlds thematically), but a Volvo ad in a dungeon?
Ambience, mood, storyline, graphical quality and believability are hugely important in a MMORPG. All I can say is, if my Lvl 20 Monk/Ranger comes across a "Lower Your Mortgage"
ad in the depths of Hell, I'm never playing Guild Wars again.
US centric adverts (Score:3, Interesting)
I found amazing, and very annoying. But for everyone else because they grew up with it they more or less blocked it out. Advertising companies know this, which is why adverts are becoming more and more intrusive. Take a look at this site.. http://www.womma.org/wombat/agenda.htm [womma.org]
It will give you an idea of how intrusive they actually get. Whats intresting in that site is that NCSofts Auto-Assault has used these marketing companies for viral/Gurrilla/astro-turfing. So having them put adverts into the game is just an extension of this to be honest.
As for the OP question. I wouldn't play it. I'd quit. If I am paying a subscription why the heck should I be paying to be spammed with adverts. Don't talk to me about it. Think it helps? Guess you have never seen "Deuce Bigalow: European gigalo" pictures in planetside.
http://www.secretlair.com/index.php?/clickablecul
which incidently was hacked to stop adverts spawning in game (just basically edited the hosts file).
It's all in the execution (Score:2, Insightful)
In-game ads could work in a subscription-based game model, if done right.
The most important thing advertisers (and game companies) have to accept is the fact that their ads will only be appropriate in contemporary-themed game environments. City of Heroes and Enter the Matrix fit this description, and not much else does. They try shoehorning an ad for potato chips (or anything else, for that matter) in a game with a fantasy/medieval setting. The reaction from subscribers will be instant and negative.
Inte
Re:It's all in the execution (Score:2)
The world is set in a futuristic, post apocalyptic "Mad Max" world. if youre going through a war torn zone and start seeing pristene unweathered billboards for Pepsi, it's going to look fishy.
I really don't understand why they don't do this in COH/V instead. It's like they built the world to show billboard advertising, and it's built in such a way that it would make the world seem more realistic. It's almost to
Re:It's all in the execution (Score:2)
one interesting question is do the billboards need to look pristine to have an affect or would billboards for pepsi that looked like they would post apocolypse (weathering random damage etc) be effective.
Re:It's all in the execution (Score:2, Interesting)
I've said it before... (Score:2)
As long as the ads are unobtrusive and fit the style and content of the game I'm fine. For instance, racing games advertising cars or tires, no problem. If there was an advertisment in WoW for hand lotion, however, I would be less than pleased.
Oh, and I think everyone would agree with me. If there's ads in the game, I best be getting some sort of substantial discount. Say, at leas
Not so bad really... (Score:2)
The Ancient Order of Coca-cola have defeated the Mercedes Barbarians to bring the glory of the gods to America.
Planetside has that (Score:3, Informative)
It's also very very easy to get rid of the ads. Apparently you just enter a line in your lmhosts file that tells the game to redirect all requests to the Massive Inc servers to some black hole. No more ads.
New registration card for products (Score:3, Funny)
1. Newspaper
2. Billboard
3. Gaming Magazine
4. Farming Blue/Purple Items in Molten Core.
Thanks for your input.
No in-game advertising! (Score:3)
The first is immersion. If I'm playing a game set in a post-apocalyptic world why am I seeing ads, and worse yet, why are they for products that don't exist in this world.
The second problem is specific to subscription based games. If I'm paying a monthly fee why should I be subjected to advertising? I don't even think I should see advertising in a game I've spent $50 for. Corporate greed knows no bounds and I expect in-game advertising to grow increasingly obnoxious and obtrusive.
I have a few other problems with this form of advertising, one of the largest being the general lack of quality for these ads. It's like ad banners, nearly all of which are complete and utter garbage. The stuff I've seen from screenshots of other games looks awful. I don't expect this to improve and I'm sure we'll see poorly placed ads. Like posters for Subway sandwiches in terrorist hideouts.
Now, advertising fits a bit more neatly into a world like that in City of Heroes; it's a contemporary city based in the United States. But again, the general idea of advertising in games rubs me the wrong way.
It's far more enjoyable and faithful to the game world to see the fake ads the designers have created. The moment I see an ad for a real-life product I'm no longer based in the game, I'm thinking about my life outside the game.
To put it simply, I think in-game advertising is lame. It's companies tried to grab every last penny from consumers. But too many consumers seem to think this is okay which means that its going to be forced on us all whether we like it or not. Consumers are far too accepting of being charged for nonsense and there aren't enough people willing to organize to oppose anything.
Matrix Online was doing this a long time ago... (Score:3, Interesting)
I quit Matrix because SOE (Sony Online) bought it, and started adding in everquest abilities to the game model, a lot like when they brought the everquest developers over to Star Wars Galaxies and started destroying because they didn't 'get the difference'.
But until then it was kind of cool to see new movie billboards or alienware ads for a new model, etc.
It can make the world more real, but if it fits in the context. I wouldn't expect to see a Pepsi Machine In WoW or a Billboard for a new movie in WoW, it has to fit the game and not break it. Matrix it worked because it was mimmicking a real city.
And if it adds revenue they use to make the game better and add content and expand the game, I'm for it...
Oh boy (Score:2)
Why is advertising so bad? (Score:2)
I pay a subscription to my satellite TV provider, yet I still get ads on the channels I like to watch. Even in the middle of sporting events. I had to pay for my decoder box and pay my monthly subscription.
Advertising in a game is acceptable to me as long as it is within context. I don't want to see an ad for CocaCola(tm) in the middle of Droknar's Forge in Guild Wars. Or an ad for Gillete Mach3 over the door to the Auction House of Orgrimmar in World of Wa
Worst Idea for an MMOG Ever (Score:2)
Hey cockmonkey, I'm glad you asked! Here's what I think:
I betad auto-assault for the first time this weekend and was very impressed with what I saw. As of yesterday I had full intention of pre-ordering AA and playing it as soon as possible.
AFter reading this article I now have zero intention of ordering AA. I won't pay $15/mon
Wrong game? (Score:2)
Ads in such a game would probably ADD to the experience. I wouldn't want them jacking up my performance or anything, but seeing a Pizza Hut or a Coke banner? Seems like verisimilitude, and if it lets them make more money, add more content, or whatever, more power to them.
Ads in a game like Auto Assault seem crazy for the most part. It's a postap
Firewall? (Score:2)
Wrong (Score:2)
This is no different. If I'm paying, then I should not be bothered with in game advertisements if they are intrusive. For example, seeing a Coke billboard or poster isn't annoying, so much, as its modeling reality. However, when the adverts become annoying or too much, or somehow, the game goes out of its
Wholly Unsurprising (Score:2)
What surprises me is the sizable percentage of people who saying "well, if it results in more money to develop better games, that's fine". What?!? Since when has advertising dollars b
Not acceptable.... (Score:2)
Since this article came out I have uninstalled it completely, deleted every single email I have ever received from NCSoft and vow never to play any of their games until they change their stance. If I'm paying for a service there better not be ads no matter how "unintrusive" they may be.
I hope NC
won't change anything (Score:2)
I strongly believe that Blizzard could pump World of Warcraft full of ads and it'd have barely any effect on player numbers because everyone is so hopelessly addicted to it. They're locked in to the g
Project Entropia (Score:2)
Re:Advertising actually fits the theme, so why not (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Advertising actually fits the theme, so why not (Score:2, Insightful)
Adverts would be intuitive in a game like GTA, which is meant to be realistic, and Full Auto makes sense too. As long as they're not intrusive, and they stay to realistically-placed billboards, vending machines, a fe
Re:Advertising actually fits the theme, so why not (Score:2)
I beg to differ (Score:2)
So an ad saying "Go see Deuce Bigalow opening in theatres this weekend" would be really out of place. Maybe, just maybe if they integrated the ads as destroyed remnants of the former civilization it would fit. Maybe.
Re:Advertising actually fits the theme, so why not (Score:2)
Re:This Depends... (Score:3, Funny)
Magic Boots +1 (sponsored by Reebok) - 1000GP
Chain mail +1 (sponsored by Adidas) - 2000GP
Regeneration potion (sponsored by Novartis) - 50,000 GP
Screwing up your game experience with ads like this one - Priceless.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Cable TV is NOT a good comparison to this model (Score:2)
Re:I'm fine with it (Score:2)
Graham (The DM): If I roll a ten or higher, then yes. (rolls die) Eleven.
(Everyone laughs hysterically.)
Re:Same as in Movie Theaters (Score:2)
Yep, this is why noone goes to movies anymore. Advertisers are almost as loathsome as lawyers.
Re:There is a worse problem than the ads.... (Score:2)
Eat shit and die Dorothy.