AJAX and IE7? 72
Moochfish asks: "Recently, my company took a brief look at AJAX to see if it was worth implementing on a few of our administrative pages to speed up certain tasks. I had created a demo that made an interesting use of live edit fields that showed some promise. However, after a little debate on the issue, we ultimately decided to skip AJAX implementations anywhere in our codebase due to concerns about things breaking when IE7 comes out. I haven't personally tried IE7, but I completely understand and mirror the concern. For you testers of IE7, does it successfully render current, non-ASP AJAX enabled sites without errors? And finally, does IE7 introduce any new functionality that may enhance the current capabilities of AJAX?"
"Many of the AJAX libraries out there have tons of duplicate functionality to handle cross-browser support. Recalling Microsoft's history of IE quirks, it seems likely that the new IE7 will have its own set of problems with regards to JS implementation. With the AJAX craze only growing, how are other developers and IT departments addressing this problem? Is this even a valid concern? While this is probably not an issue with ASP developers - especially with the release of Atlas - is this an issue for sites that use non-MS technologies?"
I don't get the question, I think (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems your question might be more about DOM manipulation, but I have the same advice: install the beta.
Re:I don't get the question, I think (Score:2)
Re:I don't get the question, I think (Score:1)
Re:I don't get the question, I think (Score:2)
Re:I don't get the question, I think (Score:1)
There's a big difference between briefly tinkering around with it and getting responses from people who use it daily. "I was able to log into GMail, it works perfectly!"
Re:I don't get the question, I think (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I don't get the question, I think (Score:2)
I could imagine this.
The way MS products work is that they are integrated. That's the value proposition: use Visual whatever, IIS,IE, and MS SQL Server and it's wrapped up in a tight package for you. If they made a change that was useful to their toolchain, their developers would never see it except as improved features or performance. If it caus
non-ASP ? (Score:3, Insightful)
What the heck does the tech creating the html/javascript have to do with the browser's usage of the generated code?
If you specifically mean ATLAS, they you should specify it in that question.
Re:non-ASP ? (Score:2)
It has to do with how attractive alternatives to Ajax are. If you're in for hell anyway, then the argument that Ajax is going to be hell doesn't carry as much weight.
Context is everything in decision making.
easy solution (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:easy solution (Score:2)
Re:easy solution (Score:1)
Oh great, your version of IE7 must be out of beta. Can I get a copy of the final? I've been wanting to try it, and since it's not due to be released until November, I didn't want to wait.
Re:easy solution (Score:2)
Re:easy solution (Score:1)
That's really a company by company definition and in many cases a project by project definition. While I agree with you, it should be a feature complete program with bugs that need to be worked out.
Microsoft, however, doesn't always follow that guideline and that is their decision. It's not right or wrong, it's just their decision. It's most likely why they plan to abandon the general 'beta cycle' completely, it makes more sense from their standpoint.
Th
Re:easy solution (Score:2)
True, they could s
Re:Firefox (Score:4, Funny)
How DARE anyone think of innovating without Microsoft!?!
How DARE anyone think of doing anything with a computer that isn't the One Microsoft Way!?!
(That's sarcasm, for the impaired. Ordinarily I wouldn't think it necessary, but this IS Slashdot.)
Re:Firefox (Score:3, Funny)
If they're going to wait for IE7 to come out of beta "just in case", by the same reasoning they should also wait for Vista to come out of beta.
Seeing as Longhorn/Vista was originally supposed to be out in 2003, oops, 2004, sorry 2005, for sure 2006, now definitely Januar 2007, the question is "Which will be out first - Vista or Bush?"
Re:Firefox (Score:1)
There's simply a general misunderstanding of the statement, "Microsoft sets the pace for innovation." At face value, it looks like they're bringing us along, instead of slowing us down.
Re:Firefox (Score:2)
Eventually we'll reimplement and my goal is for us to have a good looking and fast site! I'll be long since retired from programming before that happens...
Cheers!
Re:Firefox (Score:3, Insightful)
Where's the problem telling users to employ Firefox? Hell, most companies oblige you to use Microsoft Word to write your documents and Outlook to manage your e-mail. What's the difference when telling people "you must start Firefox when using the accounting application"?
Re:Firefox (Score:2)
I don't believe in forcing people to use particular apps either, however there's nothing wrong with demanding people use apps which comply to a certain set of standards.
This happens with cars too, if you go into a garage with a particularly old car in a really poor state of disrepair, it's highly likely they will recommend you replace it, cars can often get to such a state that repairi
Administrative pages (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Take it from someone who knows... (Score:2, Funny)
Ajax will be better in MSIE 7 (Score:5, Informative)
MS has also released their Atlas Ajax library/framework in the past couple of weeks.
I hate IE 7's interface. Tabs are ok, but the buttons and layout are not placed well on screen.
Re:Ajax will be better in MSIE 7 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ajax will be better in MSIE 7 (Score:2)
Re:Ajax will be better in MSIE 7 (Score:2)
Is there a problem with that?
Re:Ajax will be better in MSIE 7 (Score:2)
Yep, other than that I haven't seen any modification of the Javascript interpreter mentioned anywhere.
Re:Ajax will be better in MSIE 7 (Score:3, Informative)
Internet Explorer doesn't have a JavaScript interpreter. It has a JScript interpreter. JavaScript and JScript are both implementations and supersets of the ECMAScript language specified in the ECMA-262 standard.
Re:Ajax will be better in MSIE 7 (Score:2)
Fine (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Fine (Score:1)
The "MS* one" defined the standard. But yes, it required creating an ActiveX object rather than being a native implementation. That said, while IE7 does now have a javascript-native XMLHTTPRequest implementation, it can also still run ActiveX controls. That means sites that do stupid things like parse UA st
Re:Fine (Score:1)
I love it. Not even 'inventing' a feature is enough for someone to claim it's 'nonstandard'.
Re:Fine (Score:2)
Re:Fine (Score:2)
Of course, if I am projecting, please feel free to point that out, too.
Re:Fine (Score:2)
There's definitely a grey area there and I'm a bit unsure how I feel about the situation myself. In the end, though. I am glad that Microsoft has chosen to go with the de facto standard that has been create
Re:Fine (Score:2)
IE7 Browser Usage and Design Decisions (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IE7 Browser Usage and Design Decisions (Score:1)
Like it or not, MS still dominates the browser market, and whatever decision they make is the benchmark which web sites and web applications have to reach if they ever want to hope to be successful for the majority of their visitors.
Big organisations may control which browser they install on they PC, but the immense majority of home users can barely use copy and paste effectively, so asking them to ditch IE in favour of Opera or Firefox is never going to
Re:IE7 Browser Usage and Design Decisions (Score:1)
It's a non-issue (Score:5, Insightful)
AJAX is a presentation philosophy (AKA: a client-side issue). It runs independent of the server technology used. On various projects, I have implemented AJAX on servers running PHP, ColdFusion, and static HTML. AJAX is server platform independent.
As for the particulars of IE7, I can say that using script.aculo.us [aculo.us] and Prototype [conio.net] libraries run the same if not improved on IE7 in comparison to IE6. The fact that the libraries themselves are actively being tested for IE7 as new beta comes out means that I don't have to do anything extra for the changes; It just works.
I understand the initial concern for IE7/IE6 compatibility, but sticking with a popular library solve this problem and make the concern a non-issue.
As for the server-side of AJAX, what you'll be coding are pages that output either HTML, XML, or JSON. Any server platform can create this kind of output, so questions of server compatibility are moot.
But my word of cation is this: Know why you are changing a component to an AJAX philosophy and how best to implement it. There are good reasons to use AJAX as there are bad ones. Please proceed with cation and purpose.
Re:It's a non-issue (Score:1)
Re:It's a non-issue (Score:1)
A useful question might be whether Microsoft's Atlas library (ASP.NET 2.0 client-side AJAX stuff) works on browsers other than IE. And the answer is, "Yes!". If you don't believe me, head on over to Live.com [live.com] in Firefox and tell me if it works. Yes, yes it does. And Live.com is running on an older version of
Shannanigans (Score:5, Insightful)
How hard is it to download the IE7 beta? The app is in-house so if it breaks tell IE7 users to fuck off until support is added for it. Is moochfish totally inept or just trying to fan the 'IE7 is the suck' flames? My guess is the latter.
Re:Shannanigans (Score:4, Informative)
Secondly, my prototype was a demo for something I wanted to expand to our clients and partners. And trust me, coding a 20 line AJAX script is not that much work and you might think.
Finally, telling people to "fuck off until support is added" is the exact reason the project was canned. That is not possible in the business world.
The decision was made without my direct input. I though it was an interesting issue and was curious how other departments handled it. I wasn't asking for ways to convince my management to reverse their decision.
But thanks for the trolling/flamebait.
Re:Shannanigans (Score:1)
Re:Shannanigans (Score:2)
http://rafb.net/paste/results/YYjERl90.html [rafb.net]
This works fine in IE6,IE7,Opera,Firefox,Konqueror, although i'm going to reduce the interval (every 5 seconds is very excessive)
Re:Shannanigans (Score:2)
Probably, and I'm totally cool with that. I say he should convert his company over to using Firefox or Opera, the more people that use "alternative" browsers the better it is for everyone.
Re:Shannanigans (Score:2)
Try it yourself you tool (Score:5, Informative)
reverse the questioning please (Score:2)
When will people learn... (Score:1, Flamebait)
To moderators: (Score:2)
dumb (Score:1, Flamebait)
yes, it'll come with the almighty proprietary XAML technology M$ stole from Mozilla XUL. and everyone will bow to it and an html web will be gone...
You're really serious about waiting for something which you even fear might break your efforts? Talk about reasonable businessman...
There should be no wait or fear if you just coded for standards so that it would run on any browser. Or just go for Firefox, which is he
Works fine. (Score:2)
IE7 replicates the XMLHTTPRequest functionality already found in other browsers, so if your Ajax library tries to use that as it's default, then it'll all work perfectly. On the other hand, if your libary tries to do browser detection before deciding which method to use, then you may need to update it. (Thus demonstating very nicely the reason why one sh
Doubt (Score:2, Interesting)
I am sorry, and I am apologizing up front and will probably have my karma slammed, but I do have to comment.
I really have to question the legitimacy of this 'Ask Slashdot' article, and am wondering how the editors let it slip through. The article is either a fake, or the person submitting it is a piss-poor tester.
How hard would it have been to install the IE7 beta on a single machine to check the rendering of AJAX elements?
I have IE7 installed on a test machine that we use to test web apps. I also use
I've built a library on top of ajax. (Score:2)
I've done this with several things as well: libjsevent -> event abstraction; libjsdom -> some dom manipulation abstraction; etc. The advantage to this, is that if IE7 supports ajax differently or through activex or some other means, then I can add it to the library and all things work again. If I have to develop some special IE plugin
Re:I've built a library on top of ajax. (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/ie7/featuret able.mspx
Graceful Degradation (Score:1)
my experiences so far (Score:1)
AJAX and IE7 Question? My Results. (Score:1)
Consider this Tensor: The more work the client does means less work the Server does; A classic example, "Initial Edits".
Consider the following senario:
1. HTML using CSS Posts a Form to a IIS web service,(because the submitter stated IE7 as the browser).
2. The reply comes back in the form of a XML response with an attached XSLT preprocessing instruction.
Notes:
2a. This XSLT file will have imbedded in it the HTML using a CSS file, and a co
Switch browsers (Score:2)